Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[SSS]

That was kinda vague. "Space everything perfectly."

It's true, though. Ummm. A couple things to remember about Marf. The tip of the sword is what's strongest, called the sweetspot. Marf has a lot of afterlag, meaning that even though his moves come out quickly, they have a lot of cooldown time before you can do anything else. I would definitely work on tipping and spacing. Work on your forward airs, make sure you can tip those whenever you want to. Ummmmm. Learn his moveset, obviously. Learn your bait tactics. Like, jump in with a forward air, but retreat so the opponent thinks you're attacking. A lot of Marf's stuff is keeping them outside of your tipping range, and baiting attacks. Make them think that you're within range or going to be in the next second, when really you're outside of both of your ranges. Punish everything. . .hmmm. Learn how to spike with Marf. That's using your down air off the ledge to send them into Hell. Remember that if you're rising during the down air (like during your double jump), you won't fast fall. If you don't rise while doing it, you will fast fall to your death. Poor Marf :'(. What else? Obviously learn the Dancing Blades (his side B) different orientations: up, down, side. Remember that Dolphin Slash ( his up B) has a sort of sweetspot in the opening frames that can sometimes kill (just don't become predictable or they can powershield and punish you while you fall). Learn how to do stuff out of grab releases (like spiking out of grab release, upsmashing out of grab release, etc.) Learn yo forward air combos!!! Remember that Forward Air and Neutral Air cancel when you land, letting you immediately go into anything like Forward Tilt or Dancing Blades or whatever. Learn how to stuff OoS (out of shield. . .basically there are certain things you can do right out of shield; for example, by pressing Up, B, and Jump all at roughly the same time while in a shield, you'll do a Dolphin Slash OoS). Gee, there's a lot. Learn how to stutter step (dash one way then immediately forward smash the other way). Learn how to pivot grab (grab and analog stick backwards, making Marf grab backwards). Learn how to powershield (that's when you shield right when an attack hits and it makes a little clink sound and you don't get pushed back and you can attack right after with something out of shield! yay! we learned that two sentences ago!). So yeahhhhh. I'll try to think of more. . .

 

[OliClutch117]

Is DS OoS a safe punish?

 

[SSS]

Mmm. If they're in front of you.

Oh I thought you meant dmash. Um. Dolphin Slash? Yeah. It's a good one.

 

[OliClutch117]

So basically fair is my friend and I should use it in every situation right?

 

[SSS]

Ummmm not every. It's best for baiting.

And WOPing.

 

[Shaya]

Fair is best for out of shield punishments, stringing/comboing and frame trapping (basically used the same as stringing/comboing but usually with more restraint/caution)

Approaching as Marth is weird. I don't quite get how to describe it, but in most recent times, the idea of "approaching" doesn't really work with my logic. While I can't universally apply it within Brawl, the characters I enjoy/have a good feel for go the same way. I have similar patterns that bar MK are generally pretty stable (bar MK purely because his spot dodge is god awful and I'm good with spot dodge reactions).

The way I see it, applying safe consistent pressure follows into everything else. Marth is a character designed to punish everything, he doesn't have anything remotely "I do this and I'm guaranteed to be on top of you safely" (neither does really anyone in Brawl TBQH). So with a character who out of a power shield can dash forward fair or dancing blade like 1/3rd of BF length in as little (or even smaller) than 10 frames. In other words I don't see what I do as approaching, I'm just reacting and punishing. Something inherent to Marth though that does scream "I do this and blah blah" is walking; he can shield out of it at any time and he's got the fastest in the game. However, I consider it apart of my pressure arsenal less so as an approach because I'm not just walking in, I'm walking a bit forward, a bit back, throwing out dtilt, dashing away and back in [Europe meta] (safer than a pure dashing forward) and often rolling back if it doesn't look like a safe idea.

A lot of characters are going to be doing things to stop/punish you for approaching. Marth's tools generally allow him, with good timing, the ability to punish these camp paradigms.
A further thing that makes me think of it less as approaching is how I tend to not want to hit them (unless they commit) but rather their shields at really good ranges/spacing. People are so restricted in shield (if they don't PS) if they can't even hit you if they shield drop throw out a move, it's the best distance you want to be as Marth (and also every good character [Snake, Falco, Diddy, MK]) but I'm starting to feel that Marth in control in this scenario is kinda better than everyone else. Think of this distance/pressure in and around their shield like they've grabbed the ledge. The options they have are exactly the same (usually better than post 100% ledge options though), the distance between you are exactly the same, how you **** them is basically the same as well.

Marth's moving death zone also pushes people to the ledge. Am I approaching as Marth if my course of actions force them to go somewhere bad/dumb? Is it approaching if they try to move towards me/attack me and fail due to good spacing? ARRRRRRRRr

 

[Zano]

how the **** is "space everything perfectly" vague? That's pretty straightforward, space perfectly.

 

[smashkng]

With really good ability to space you can throw out Fair wherever you want. Moving in a tricky way so they can't know where you decide to put the Fair hitbubble (wheter it being a bit away from the opponent, untipped or at the tip of the sword) puts A LOT OF PRESSURE on the opponent. Just watch how Mikeneko does it. And if you decide to put the Fair hitbox a bit away from the opponent, it covers rolls behind you pretty well too. So they have to think twice before trying that.

 

[barbarianl3t]

While playing around as Marth today I found that if i was running towards the left and hit C-Stick up + Z at the same time Marth would do a short slide into a pivot grab, but while running towards the right he would perform a regular grab without the pivot. My question is if there is a reason why he only would do the pivot while facing left and not while facing right.

 

[SSS]

While playing around as Marth today I found that if i was running towards the left and hit C-Stick up + Z at the same time Marth would do a short slide into a pivot grab, but while running towards the right he would perform a regular grab without the pivot. My question is if there is a reason why he only would do the pivot while facing left and not while facing right.

Ummmm. . .you sure you do not naturally angle your analog stick towards one direction or another when pressing it up?

 

[barbarianl3t]

Thanks for the quick response. It ends up that my analog stick was angled a little bit to the right whenever I hit up and when I angled it either left he would grab towards the left, thanks for the help.

 

[OliClutch117]

Alright so I have two MUs I would like to know how to play. 1 is Pikachu and the 2nd is Diddy.

 

[SSS]

Alright so I have two MUs I would like to know how to play. 1 is Pikachu and the 2nd is Diddy.

I don't really know much about the Diddy Kong match-up.

As for Pikachu.
Basically it's all about zoning. You want to try to keep Pikachu outside of your sword using stuff like Ftilt, Fair, Dtilt, maybe some Nair, etc. If Pikachu gets in, he'll wreck you. Keep him out. He has, in my opinion, some better follow-up options than Marf.
Pikachu is very good at resetting the match to neutral and escaping with his great movement options like Quick Attack, or retaliating with a fast move like Nair. If you get a good string going, know when to pull it back so that you don't get Naired in the face, and suddenly you're the one in an Uair combo.
Although I'm pretty sure Dthrow to Fsmash is a given from 0%, don't get hungry for the grab. Pikachu can punish very very very well, not to mention his grab game is a lot better than yours. So watch out for that.
Avoid being above him; he has some great options like Uair, Usmash (which goes higher than you think), and even Thunder. If you really need to approach, he's somewhat vulnerable from above him diagonally in the front. Just watch out for his jump into Fair or Nair or really any aerial at all.
Apart from zoning and keeping Pikachu at tip distance and no closer, Marth in this match-up should be applying shield pressure quite a bit. Marth is very good at this. Marth should always be pressuring Pika to react; that's his bread and butter, really. Despite his great shield pressure, however, Pikachu has some great OoS options, like Nair. Be wary, and don't get greedy. Your ftilt and your dtilt are safer than your fair, believe it or not.
Pikachu has some trouble getting back on stage against Marth. You should avoid going out to try to fair him to death; Pikachu will just Quick Attack around you and laugh as he takes your second jump with his Tjolt. You should stay on stage, using your pressure with ftilt, dtilt, DB1, and if you want, a fair or nair; however, keep the aerials on the stage. Don't go out that far, just beat him away when he tries to come in. Watch to see what he does and react. If he Quick Attacks to the ledge, you can either try to go for the ledgehog, or you can go back a bit, and get ready to shield, jump and fair, or whatever to react to Pikachu's ledge options. Don't get close to the ledge when Pikachu is hanging, or else you'll get a dropped Uair or even a rising Nair to the face. Hang back and wait. If he tries to Quick Attack above you, he'll obviously be vulnerable to an Utilt or a Bair back out to sea. If he tries to Quick Attack through you, which is one of his better options, get ready to punish the Quick Attack Cancel; he'll be in the air soon, either heading away from you or toward you. Either way, when he QACs, punish the jump with a Bair or Fair. Pikachu might try grabbing the ledge, dropping down, double jumping, and either using an aerial, or Quick Attack. Anticipate this and use the same tactics against him normally using these moves to get back onstage. If Pikachu tries to be cute and use Skullbash (his side B) to get back onstage, beat him away with a fair, or, if you're feeling fancy, try to spike him out of it (or counter the skullbash for a possible easy kill lol). If he's simply jumping back on stage trying to return with an aerial, beat him back with Fair. If you space it, nothing he has will beat it.
There's some more that I can't remember now. Just remember to keep him out; if he gets in, you're screwed. If you get him offstage, edgeguard like a boss. Pressure him like a mofo; just watch out for his powershield and his Oos options.
I'm trying to find a good video of that match-up, but all of the good ones I can find are ESAM absolutely destroying Marth after Marth. XD Maybe you could get help from him on the match-up, he's always around.
Hmmm maybe Mikeneko has some good ones against Pika. . .if I can find a Marth beating ESAM, that would be stellar, because ESAM is the best Pika. I'll post it when I find it. If.

EDIT/ADDON:

When you're trying to get up from ledge or return from offstage, watch out for Thunder. I won't go into all of your options, because that's another discussion and not specific to Pikachu, but his Thunder can be a b***h when you're recovering from low.
Also Pikachu's invincibility frames on the edge are rather pathetic.
Two Fthrows to tipper Fmash works from 0%.
If he grabs you early, you're going to get Fthrown to Fmashed. There's really nothing you can do. Just watch out for the followups afterward.
SDI THAT DSMASH.

 

[1PokeMastr]

If Pikachu grabs Marth at low%'s he can only F-Throw -> Dash Attack.
Marth can Dolphin Slash everything else.

Marth also can F-Throw x2 -> D-Throw -> Tip Fsmash.

And against Pikachu.. only jump if he jumps, he'll run under you and **** you if you jump while he's grounded.

 

[Osennecho]

So.... Yah... Marf's side b in air... You know how there is the normal one which is a nice clean arc and the second one (still first hit of d blade) which can semi bounce you in air and is amazing for spacing and looks more like a slash coming in the middle of where the arc would be... How do I actually do this and what is it called? I've gotten it to happen more often by spamming a combination of button inputs but occasionally that tech errors a neutral b or reverse or I just side b. If you don't know what I'm talking about I can probably find a video of it occurring in a match later tonight when I have time but you probably do. I want to add this to my spacing/recovery options so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Alright so I have two MUs I would like to know how to play. 1 is Pikachu and the 2nd is Diddy.

And to answer the Diddy matchup part. Go read CJ's godlike guide http://smashboards.com/threads/diddy-tips-and-item-tricks.309846/

 

[1PokeMastr]

It's wave bounce DB1.

Forward Back Foward B.

Voila.

Mr.R/ a Marth here uses it to mix up their landings.

 

[smashkng]

So I have a question regarding the MK MU. If MK Bthrows me offstage, at let's say 70%, what's the optimal DI and move to avoid Shuttle Loop? Counter seems to come out too late. Is air dodge a decent option or is it too laggy? Or should I do something like Fair? I'm mostly thinking about the safest way to escape, which could cover both Shuttle Loop and something like an Uair.

 

[clowsui]

DI up and react to what he does. He can't actually string SL from bthrow, it's just a good read. Just drift away/towards or FF, try to conserve your double jump, etc.

 

[ScareMl]

smashkng, DI up and out, and SL can't hit you, like chi said

 

[Sar]

Watching the Impulse stream today and Dabuz vs Leon got me wondering about how to play the Olimar matchup. There's like, no discussion on the marth boards that I can find, which is interesting. It has to be one of Marth's hardest matchups, yet it doesn't seem like a priority?

One of the hardest things seems to be approaching. How do you get in on olimar? side-b makes it hard to find a hole, and then the grabs and fsmashes make for great punishes if we try to fair our way in. How do you do it?

Also, I can't find many videos of good marth vs olimar matches. Mikeneko has a few sets against Brood and Nietono where he does reasonably well, but it seems like all other top marths have a lot of trouble with the MU.

 

[Shaya]

Olimar is one of Marth's easiest top tier match ups.

Marth has the best walk in the game.
Shielding makes side-b not latch onto you. Only exception is purples which are physical projectiles.

In other words,
approaching is as simple as walking and shielding on reaction to side bs.

Olimar does not have an answer to full hop fair.

Add the two together and you have how simple it is for Marth to aggressively pressure and approach Olimar.

The only fsmash worth a salt from Oli is yellow (sometimes purple).

 

[clowsui]

Watching the Impulse stream today and Dabuz vs Leon got me wondering about how to play the Olimar matchup. There's like, no discussion on the marth boards that I can find, which is interesting. It has to be one of Marth's hardest matchups, yet it doesn't seem like a priority?

One of the hardest things seems to be approaching. How do you get in on olimar? side-b makes it hard to find a hole, and then the grabs and fsmashes make for great punishes if we try to fair our way in. How do you do it?

Also, I can't find many videos of good marth vs olimar matches. Mikeneko has a few sets against Brood and Nietono where he does reasonably well, but it seems like all other top marths have a lot of trouble with the MU.

look for my post in Kadaj's Q&A thread

 

[Sar]

Thanks clow, that post was really helpful.

@shaya, full hop fair = rising fair, correct? My problem is getting that to land. Olimar's grab outranges our fair so if we use walk up-shield as our approach won't we just get grabbed? Or do we have to react to the grab because olimar's is slow?

 

[Shaya]

AS in, instead of short hop fair, it's full hop rising fair (yes). You may also do it just as you use a jump after already being in the air for a while.
Yes you need to react to things like dash grab... like, shielding lets you get past most of side-b, you still get the opportunities to kill pikmin and rush down. Rush down rising fair is going to be "outranging" olimar's grab.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Or D-Tilt.

 

[ScareMl]

Watched Leon vs will. Convinced marth can't beat dk

 

[Shaya]

I'm not. Hahah.

Pay attention to Leon's aerials.
Which are whiffing
which are trading
which are hitting? if they're hitting are they tippered or untippered? what does he do after these hits based on the type of hit that he gets?
Where is he during these hits/swings? (falling, fast falling, rising from squat, rising from dj, etc etc)

Leon's over exertion in off stage tidbits really cost him a lot. Lylat is not an easy stage for Marth to win on against DK either.

 

[C.J.]

Alright so I have two MUs I would like to know how to play. 1 is Pikachu and the 2nd is Diddy.

Didddyyyyy
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/diddy-tips-and-item-tricks.309846/

I don't really know much about the Diddy Kong match-up.

As for Pikachu.
Basically it's all about zoning. You want to try to keep Pikachu outside of your sword using stuff like Ftilt, Fair, Dtilt, maybe some Nair, etc. If Pikachu gets in, he'll wreck you. Keep him out. He has, in my opinion, some better follow-up options than Marf.
Pikachu is very good at resetting the match to neutral and escaping with his great movement options like Quick Attack, or retaliating with a fast move like Nair. If you get a good string going, know when to pull it back so that you don't get Naired in the face, and suddenly you're the one in an Uair combo.
Although I'm pretty sure Dthrow to Fsmash is a given from 0%, don't get hungry for the grab. Pikachu can punish very very very well, not to mention his grab game is a lot better than yours. So watch out for that.
Avoid being above him; he has some great options like Uair, Usmash (which goes higher than you think), and even Thunder. If you really need to approach, he's somewhat vulnerable from above him diagonally in the front. Just watch out for his jump into Fair or Nair or really any aerial at all.
Apart from zoning and keeping Pikachu at tip distance and no closer, Marth in this match-up should be applying shield pressure quite a bit. Marth is very good at this. Marth should always be pressuring Pika to react; that's his bread and butter, really. Despite his great shield pressure, however, Pikachu has some great OoS options, like Nair. Be wary, and don't get greedy. Your ftilt and your dtilt are safer than your fair, believe it or not.
Pikachu has some trouble getting back on stage against Marth. You should avoid going out to try to fair him to death; Pikachu will just Quick Attack around you and laugh as he takes your second jump with his Tjolt. You should stay on stage, using your pressure with ftilt, dtilt, DB1, and if you want, a fair or nair; however, keep the aerials on the stage. Don't go out that far, just beat him away when he tries to come in. Watch to see what he does and react. If he Quick Attacks to the ledge, you can either try to go for the ledgehog, or you can go back a bit, and get ready to shield, jump and fair, or whatever to react to Pikachu's ledge options. Don't get close to the ledge when Pikachu is hanging, or else you'll get a dropped Uair or even a rising Nair to the face. Hang back and wait. If he tries to Quick Attack above you, he'll obviously be vulnerable to an Utilt or a Bair back out to sea. If he tries to Quick Attack through you, which is one of his better options, get ready to punish the Quick Attack Cancel; he'll be in the air soon, either heading away from you or toward you. Either way, when he QACs, punish the jump with a Bair or Fair. Pikachu might try grabbing the ledge, dropping down, double jumping, and either using an aerial, or Quick Attack. Anticipate this and use the same tactics against him normally using these moves to get back onstage. If Pikachu tries to be cute and use Skullbash (his side B) to get back onstage, beat him away with a fair, or, if you're feeling fancy, try to spike him out of it (or counter the skullbash for a possible easy kill lol). If he's simply jumping back on stage trying to return with an aerial, beat him back with Fair. If you space it, nothing he has will beat it.
There's some more that I can't remember now. Just remember to keep him out; if he gets in, you're screwed. If you get him offstage, edgeguard like a boss. Pressure him like a mofo; just watch out for his powershield and his Oos options.
I'm trying to find a good video of that match-up, but all of the good ones I can find are ESAM absolutely destroying Marth after Marth. XD Maybe you could get help from him on the match-up, he's always around.
Hmmm maybe Mikeneko has some good ones against Pika. . .if I can find a Marth beating ESAM, that would be stellar, because ESAM is the best Pika. I'll post it when I find it. If.

EDIT/ADDON:

When you're trying to get up from ledge or return from offstage, watch out for Thunder. I won't go into all of your options, because that's another discussion and not specific to Pikachu, but his Thunder can be a b***h when you're recovering from low.
Also Pikachu's invincibility frames on the edge are rather pathetic.
Two Fthrows to tipper Fmash works from 0%.
If he grabs you early, you're going to get Fthrown to Fmashed. There's really nothing you can do. Just watch out for the followups afterward.
SDI THAT DSMASH.

Someone asked about Diddy and my guide didn't get linked? You all are bad people

I'm in the process of making a Pika guide for Wizzy and Zero so I'll post that here when I get it finished. The above is like, 75% right, I'll deconstruct it during my next class.

Maybe.

If Pikachu grabs Marth at low%'s he can only F-Throw -> Dash Attack.
Marth can Dolphin Slash everything else.

Marth also can F-Throw x2 -> D-Throw -> Tip Fsmash.

For the love of god, don't DS when you get fthrown... fthrow'd... at 0%. The usmash won't connect if you do, but it's DDD CG/Falco CG easy to bait out DS. If you do DS and you get caught by the bait then you get grabbed and hit by a guaranteed usmash. It's better to just take the damage from the not-guaranteed one while retaining an advantageous position if he doesn't go for it than risk getting the additional 10% + RCO if you get baited.
I haven't done it in a LONG time, but I think he can get up to 3 dthrows. I know it's at least two because I know Marth can control which direction he gets hit post-fsmash.

It's wave bounce DB1.

Forward Back Foward B.

Voila.

Mr.R/ a Marth here uses it to mix up their landings.

Meeeeeeeee <3

And against Pikachu.. only jump if he jumps, he'll run under you and **** you if you jump while he's grounded.

Somehow this got cut off from whatever the original quote was, but this is essentially true. You can "jump" in the sense that you jump in place and only move forward once you're almost on the ground. If you're staying perfectly still, Pika can't reasonably get under you since he has to go through your sword while if you go forward at all he can go under it.

So I have a question regarding the MK MU. If MK Bthrows me offstage, at let's say 70%, what's the optimal DI and move to avoid Shuttle Loop? Counter seems to come out too late. Is air dodge a decent option or is it too laggy? Or should I do something like Fair? I'm mostly thinking about the safest way to escape, which could cover both Shuttle Loop and something like an Uair.

You can footstool SL DI away and fair/dair the SL (best feeling in the world), etc depending on how he times it. DIing further offstage and up in your best bet. It seems weird since you're putting yourself really far out but you're going to be high, have better mobility than MK, and have a much better FF than MK. Straight up gives MK a frame advantage starting around like, 80% or so to legitimately combo you unless you AD. In which case you get glide attacked. You REALLY want to go further offstage.

DI up and react to what he does. He can't actually string SL from bthrow, it's just a good read. Just drift away/towards or FF, try to conserve your double jump, etc.

Not true- mid-high % SL actually legitimately combos from dthrow and bthrow, DI dependent.

Watched Leon vs will. Convinced marth can't beat dk

Luckily, you're still wrong.

 

[Osennecho]

Someone asked about Diddy and my guide didn't get linked? You all are bad people

CJ =_= I linked your guide earlier already. You just skipped over me cuz I'm a scrub. Also <33333333 for the Pika guide you're making. I get 0 practice in this matchup and can only theory craft.

 

[C.J.]

I actually just read the first part of your post and saw it was a question and that it was answered by the next one so I didn't finish it haha.

My bad <3

 

[BlueXenon]

I have a very bad habit when I play marth. I try to get too many dangerous reads instead of focusing on actually playing the game. It's so much more fun to get reads with marth compared to metaknight (my main). Metaknight's moveset isn't very powerful so getting a good read with him isn't very satisfying. But with Marth a dair read or tipper fsmash can kill at very low % and it feels very good to land these moves. But I get punished so much when i miss. How can I stop doing this?

 

[Osennecho]

Stuff

Easiest solution: Main Marf and never play MK again.
Every Marf has had that problem at some point or another early on and it is still tempting at times for most.

 

[Shaya]

Just get better at spacing.
Get better with timing.

Use whatever the **** you want. This character is broken.

 

[Ereth]

best advice ever ^

 

[1PokeMastr]

But I get punished so much when i miss. How can I stop doing this?

Stop missing.

 

[Keys1281]

Okay, so I've seen this all over the place but it doesn't seem legit--Marth's Fthrow -> Nair true combo's a lot of characters, I know. But Fthrow -> Nair -> Fair is true on some characters, right? If so, what characters is this guaranteed on? Also, is it a better option than Fsmash for positional advantage/does it do more %?

 

[clowsui]

If fthrow nair is not guaranteed then how could fthrow nair fair be guaranteed LMAO just DI down from the nair

 

[Keys1281]

Basically I was just asking if Fthrow -> Nair -> Fair was a true combo on any character and if it's better than Fthrow -> Fsmash (while using too many words).

Edit: So are you saying Fthrow -> Nair isn't guaranteed on anyone?

 

[Sar]

What's the best way to practice proper spacing (tipper everything)? Is it just a matter of playing more and getting used to the spacing? Also, is it possible to do without playing other people (is CPU practice worth anything at all)?

 

[smashkng]

This could help with spacing. 2 main things are key to learn how to space like a god. It's really important to be good at both in order to master spacing. Unfortunately I must say that you have to practice in both a lot to get your spacing on point:
1 Get an impression of how exactly or almost exactly how big Marth's hitboxes on each of his moves are. For example learn how to position so that you can grab people by the max range with dash grab out of a dash to instant dash grab. Try to learn to position and find where Marth's aerials tip. That way you know what positioning is the optimal one to zone out your opponent. However, remember that there are situations where not tippering is better (for example, Fair has more frame disadvantage on block when it's tippered, if you don't tipper and Fair right before landing, you can Up b to beat shield grab attempts). Not tippering can also sometimes allow you to combo better due to less knockaback, like out of a Dtilt or Fair in lots of situations. If you want a more accurate visual of Marth's hitbox size on his moves, check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAWoZsGpwQ

2 Learn to time moves (for example, practice until you get an impression of when exactly Fair comes out, try not to think that it comes out on frame 1, but that it comes out slightly later, like frame 5). Spacing is also based on timing moves. When you change directions in the air, it takes a while to do that, except if you double jump. Learning to space aerials when you first move forward and then retreat in the same jump can be hard to do consitstently. Double jumping can help with spacing in that way because it completely negates the horizontal aerial decceleration part, but of course be careful with your jump uses. When dash grabbing, it's also about getting the feeling of when the grab box comes out after running, so that you grab it more in the tip of the opponent than right next to them. When you run and FH or SH retreating Fair, it's more about timing the jump after running so that you tipper Fair when doing that rising Fair.

Another thing to learn when it comes to spacing, although maybe not as important as those 2, but still really nice to master, is timing fast falls. For example, try spacing a SHFF late Fair well. Try out buffered SHFF Nair. Buffered SH Nairs always autocancel, even when fast falled, although I don't think fast falls can be buffered, so you have to time the FF well. Another suggestion of how to practice to FF well. Try out FH Uair, FH Bair or FH Fair into a FF that is done as soon as possible, when done correctly it can easily frame trap characters above you. Mix those FH aerials with non-fast falls.

And at last, when it comes to Marth, misspacing Fairs away on purpose can actually be a good thing. People don't like getting hit by our fair because it usually gives us momentum (Marth is a heavily momentum based character) and if you Fair slightly away from their hurtbubbles, you can pressure them because if they move the slightest forward they get hit by it, and if they stand still or retreat you're a lot of the time still safe because of how little landing lag Fair has.