Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pierce7d]

How much cooldown lag? I dunno. I'll ltry to remember to ask m2k.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Thank you, i get messed up in the air by not waiting long enough to up-b.

 

[feardragon64]

Thank you, i get messed up in the air by not waiting long enough to up-b.

Eh, knowing the exact frame count won't help you that much. Just go into practice mode and fool around with it until you can get the timing down.

P.S. late grats on your name change.

 

[Remzi]

As we know most Marth's aren't very good at all... They usually play super aggressive and try to pressure the entire match, so I have to ask:

Why do very few players realize the effectiveness of Marth's defensive game; or rather why does Marth come off as an offensive only character to most inexperienced player?

 

[feardragon64]

As we know most Marth's aren't very good at all... They usually play super aggressive and try to pressure the entire match, so I have to ask:

Why do very few players realize the effectiveness of Marth's defensive game; or rather why does Marth come off as an offensive only character to most inexperienced player?

melee

10marthfails

 

[ZHMT]

As we know most Marth's aren't very good at all... They usually play super aggressive and try to pressure the entire match, so I have to ask:

Why do very few players realize the effectiveness of Marth's defensive game; or rather why does Marth come off as an offensive only character to most inexperienced player?

First off, many people used to think Melee = Brawl. (Feardragon64 had to beat me lol) Many noob Marths started this game back in March thinking it was like Melee and havent changed since.

Other people just do not understand the concept of staying safe and keeping distance. Some may learn it later on, others may never learn it. If a player is doing well in his own group of friends he may keep that ineffective playstyle.

However to reach the most potent level of play that will work in tourneys all over the place, you must play according to the MAIN metagame of Brawl, defensive.

People use what works, and if offense works for them, they will keep using sh double fairs to approach . Almost every good Marth around plays defensive. Why approach when they run into your ftilt? Why attack them when you can stay at a safe range and poke at them?

Overagression is FAIL (obvious stated), have a nice day ^_^

 

[Remzi]

Yes, I've always credited most of it to melee. I guess others just don't like to play smart.

And while most marths around here may play smart and defensive, most others sadly dont.

 

[Dr Peepee]

From my perspective, I see what ZMT says, but it's almost always supplemented by silly combo videos (Drago anyone?). Drago does this really cool stuff, and people try to emulate what looks the best. However, they fail to realize what looks best is not usually equal to what is the best overall strategy.

Most of the other reasons have already been stated.

 

[feardragon64]

From my perspective, I see what ZMT says, but it's almost always supplemented by silly combo videos (Drago anyone?). Drago does this really cool stuff, and people try to emulate what looks the best. However, they fail to realize what looks best is not usually equal to what is the best overall strategy.

Most of the other reasons have already been stated.

I might have beat ZMT to the punch on the melee, but Dr beat me to the punch on this. Combo videos.

Defensive Marths are incredibly boring to watch in comparison to offensive marths. Combo videos generally contain offensive Marths. As Dr. said, Drago's videos is a prime example. People try and learn from combo videos and end up failing.

This is why we watch match videos. Stop watching combo vids >>

 

[Remzi]

ah yes an excellent point. first i'd like to point out that anyone that watches a combo video for anything other than entertainment is an idiot. sorry to be blunt but its true

but unfortunately many do just that, and try to pick up those strategies to 'become as good as the guy pwning in the video!!!!'

 

[IDK]

i thought it was 4 frames.

 

[Fatalzyntax]

"dtilt is good for poking/shield poking" ...
What does that mean? What is poking? What is its' uses? Example?

 

[feardragon64]

"dtilt is good for poking/shield poking" ...
What does that mean? What is poking? What is its' uses? Example?

Obviously, you must know that when you hit a shield, it becomes smaller.

Well in brawl(unlike melee), it actually matters whether or not your shield covers your entire body. So when the shield becomes smaller, one of the first places it no longer covers is your feet.
Guess where dtilt is aimed at.

The reason why dtilt is such a great poker is because if you dtilt a shield, you can get another dtilt in before they can do anything about it. It's a get hit or get hit scenario. Also well known as Marth's safest option. =]

 

[feardragon64]

Double post. Sue me.

I can never seem to reliably test this. I've found often times MK will be at a mid-high %, I'll knock him off the stage and he almost dies, but ends up gliding back. Obviously, I'm not going for the gimp against that guy. But too often he goes for the glide attack on me. I find it somewhat predictable and constantly debate whether or not to try and tipper fsmash for the kill. The thing is, I'm never sure if tipped fsmash outranges mk's glide attack or not.

Or here's the more direct version of the question. Which of marth's kill moves outrange MK's glide attack? Since I know none of them are reliable, which one is probably the safest?

 

[Remzi]

The best option in that situation is to shield grab, once you grab him, keep pummeling him to refresh your fair, then grab release tipper for the kill.

 

[DarkRunner00]

I might have beat ZMT to the punch on the melee, but Dr beat me to the punch on this. Combo videos.

Defensive Marths are incredibly boring to watch in comparison to offensive marths. Combo videos generally contain offensive Marths. As Dr. said, Drago's videos is a prime example. People try and learn from combo videos and end up failing.

This is why we watch match videos. Stop watching combo vids >>

well... QTF...

so I sandbag with my friends a lot now... and one time a new kid comes to watch us play... and comments on how he loves watching my marth... since it's constant pace action... but then he also says hey man... you lose a lot... and he was giving me lots of **** about it...

I got hella pissed.

and then i told him... well i'm not playing Marth to win, I'm playing to impress you...
then I pulled out the efficient way of playing and 3 stocked a couple of my friends and 2 stocked the rest...

but on their defense... it was probably due to the fact they weren't use to me walking... and camping... I dunno.

Double post. Sue me.

I can never seem to reliably test this. I've found often times MK will be at a mid-high %, I'll knock him off the stage and he almost dies, but ends up gliding back. Obviously, I'm not going for the gimp against that guy. But too often he goes for the glide attack on me. I find it somewhat predictable and constantly debate whether or not to try and tipper fsmash for the kill. The thing is, I'm never sure if tipped fsmash outranges mk's glide attack or not.

Or here's the more direct version of the question. Which of marth's kill moves outrange MK's glide attack? Since I know none of them are reliable, which one is probably the safest?

I watched lots of Dash -> Usmash outprioritizing gliders... is that viable?

 

[crazn137]

I watched lots of Dash -> Usmash outprioritizing gliders... is that viable?

I think thats just the Marth predicting where the MK would go, and running under him. Shield grabbing or Dolphin Slashing is going to be the safest way to punish it imo

 

[DarkRunner00]

ok, you're probably right...

i mean both of those are few of the most effective ways to punish attacks. (out of shield)

 

[Pierce7d]

Tipper fsmash does outrange MK's glide attack, but if MK is going to predictable glide attack, then counter. Fully spaced glide attack is not shield grab-able.

Poking is merely throwing simple moves at your opponent's shield that they cannot safely react to. Usually, these moves shield stab (hit the hurtbox in areas not protected by a weakened shield).

MK's glide dives pretty fast. Running under him is only good if he's aiming farther/not already low.

Usmash will hit MK from below if the MK is not paying attention and doesn't dive and hit you first (which he can). It's a mix-up/mindgame. Once you get in this spot though, MK can't hit you.

Poking and shield stabbing is in Melee too, but shielding is not as prevalent in that game.

 

[DarkRunner00]

And dan, I like your new sig. A lot. Green. is nice.

 

[Pierce7d]

Thank you very much! Green is my favorite color. Hence why I play Green Marth. I think I'm going to have the Marth changed to Green.

Did I miss any questions?

 

[misterbushido01]

i need tips for spacing against g&w
any help?

 

[Pierce7d]

Against G&W, be very careful for the Bair. Personally, I think the key to beating G&W is counter, as G&W telegraphs a lot. Being so light and so powerful, counter is the perfect tool to send all of G&W's godly power back at his lightness and own him. He's his own counterpick, and you have a move to turn it against him.

As far as spacing goes. You should zone with Fairs and dtilts, and use Dolphin Slash out of shield if he tries to Bair you (you'll need tap jump on for this). Your dtilt outranges everything he has on the ground and is IASA frame 21 I believe, leaving you with plenty of defensive outlets, such as shield, in case you miss and he goes for a Bair. Otherwise, your Fair beats out his, and most of his ground moves. For more information, read this thread:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188192

Or, ask a more specific question.

 

[feardragon64]

Thanks pierce. I knew a well spaced glide attack was out of range for a shield grab, but I wasn't sure about the fsmash. But a counter works alright I suppose (though a bit troublesome if he curves down in front of you and attacks you during the after-lag. =\

@DarkRuner, why qtf? unless you mean qft in which case nevermind.

 

[link1212]

if i made a really good stage and i cant go on the stage browser for some stupid reason can i give it too u?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ummm sure?

 

[Jim Morrison]

marth best stage?

 

[Remzi]

I so agree with you on the G&W matchup Pierce, G&W is the only character I actually use counter against often. It's always so obvious what he is going to do, stopping it is just somewhat difficult.

Marth's best stage IMO is Delfino.

-Marth has the right tools to effectively control the stage at parts with walkoff edges
-Spiking through the water is safe
-D-tilt lock against walls

 

[Kizzu-kun]

I so agree with you on the G&W matchup Pierce, G&W is the only character I actually use counter against often. It's always so obvious what he is going to do, stopping it is just somewhat difficult.

Marth's best stage IMO is Delfino.

-Marth has the right tools to effectively control the stage at parts with walkoff edges
-Spiking through the water is safe
-D-tilt lock against walls

Water also highly reduces the chances of Marth being gimped.

 

[Remzi]

haha, yea i forgot one of the most obvious ones >_>

thanks kizzu

 

[Emblem Lord]

There are other characters who do far better on it though.

I prefer Battlefield. That stage is Marth's home. Nobody lays down the **** like him on that stage save for maybe MK and a few others.

 

[feardragon64]

There are other characters who do far better on it though.

I prefer Battlefield. That stage is Marth's home. Nobody lays down the **** like him on that stage save for maybe MK and a few others.

Not only the platforms work to his advantage, but it's so much easier to get a kill here. =]
Except when that works against him cause he's lightweight -.-

 

[Remzi]

Some people say that CPing BF is stupid against a Snake, but I don't see why. I find it ridiculously easy to catch snake in a long lasting juggle trap at BF. That plus it's easier to maneuver through his camping. So yea am I right xD ?

 

[Nibbity]

edgehogging at BF = great stuff. Just saying.

 

[Remzi]

edgehogging at BF = great stuff. Just saying.

... why?

10why's

 

[grandmaster192]

Battle field is better than Defino Plaza for Marth. Marth really can **** that stage, and he kill lighting fast on that stage.

 

[misterbushido01]

Against G&W, be very careful for the Bair. Personally, I think the key to beating G&W is counter, as G&W telegraphs a lot. Being so light and so powerful, counter is the perfect tool to send all of G&W's godly power back at his lightness and own him. He's his own counterpick, and you have a move to turn it against him.

As far as spacing goes. You should zone with Fairs and dtilts, and use Dolphin Slash out of shield if he tries to Bair you (you'll need tap jump on for this). Your dtilt outranges everything he has on the ground and is IASA frame 21 I believe, leaving you with plenty of defensive outlets, such as shield, in case you miss and he goes for a Bair. Otherwise, your Fair beats out his, and most of his ground moves. For more information, read this thread:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188192

Or, ask a more specific question.

ahh thanks
i cant believe i forgot about dolphin slash out of shield

 

[ZHMT]

... why?

10why's

Think about it... First off the lips of the stage aid Marths recovery, he can ledge stall easier because of that. Meaning you can bair from it with less risk, or simply fast fall and up b constantly with little to no vunerability. From the ledge every aspect is covered, when your opponent is hanging they literally have no safe option (character dependant). The platforms on the sides prevent your opponent from jumping from the ledge to the stage without being punished. The best stage lips for Marth are also good because, so you dont have to worry about gimping yourself. Everything just seems easier on Battlefield. Lylat ledges can be a pain, lets not even go into Final Destination. Smashville is good but that floating platform may get in the way.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I have a simple question! Would you guys like to see less of me? If so, your dreams will come true because I now have three character Boards to go on! Diddy Kong, Wolf, and Marth! Yay for all the haters of me!

 

[DarkRunner00]

Pierce, what do you mean: telegraphing...

also be weary of the last hit of GW's bair.