Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Rizen]

Tumble(Excluding Wind effect) = Di = Air dodge = Escape.
Di down away.
Safe!

Now I'm done.

^I was going by your guide. http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-cg-guide-new-info-in-misc-notes.315249/ I just guessed 52% instead of 48 and didn't look it up because that was a Link/Sheik MU discussion. This is why I don't speak for other characters because they know their business
Why do you have 48% if Link can escape at 34%?

 

[Darktega]

Argh easier said, kinda hard to practice alone.. I don't know what to practice.

Well, that's my case, I mostly play alone beacuse I don't have people to practice with. >_> So when there's a tourney, go there and play with lots of people and make notes about it. If possible, record your own matches.

For the basics I'll recomend to start with SHL and SHDL, (which stands for Short Hop Laser and Short Hop Double Laser) which is the basic of the basics for being a Falco, there's a guide here in the forums, I highly recommend reading it, it has some ATs listed that you will be probably hearing a lot here. (Including SHL and SHDL)

 

[1PokeMastr]

Rizen

Spoiler

=_=
Link CAN ONLY escape under the condition he's at 34-35% BEFORE being grabbed because the fresh D-Throw will put him in tumble, it was explained in the previous thread.

Take laser/ bomb damage to 34-35% and then you can go in against Falco because the d-throw will still be fresh and put you into tumble.

In the CG guide, it states at the VERY TOP/ START of the guide that the D-Throw starts at ZERO, that way you can get the maximum amount of grabs.

If you're grabbed at 0% you can not get out until after the follow up at the final grab.
Link would be..

0 -> 48 + Follow up.

In what I stated it was.

35 -> 44 = Safe.

Argh easier said, kinda hard to practice alone.. I don't know what to practice.

SHL/ SHDL.
Galting Combo.
Recovering.
IAP.
CG.
Jab/ Tilt spacing.
I can only practice once a week with people, other than that I practice by myself too.

 

[Rizen]

Oh so 48% is with the finisher? That's good to know, thanks
I don't know Falco very well, lol. I just took about 40% damage and assumed I could get away before Falco CGed me to the edge for the spike.

 

[1PokeMastr]

48 + Finisher.

The CG guide includes the finishing damages at the end in spoiler tags.

I should put the one for 7 Cgs in there.. but..

Just add 12-14% after the 48.

 

[Igneel]

Hi, i've a question How can i buff the CG? because i try to do but i can't .... I did Z Grab>DThrow>ForwardStick>DownCstick>Z Grab I readed about that form to do but for me don't work :S!
Sorry if you don't understand much but i don't talk english really good.

Help pleaseee...!!

 

[1PokeMastr]

You don't need the C-Stick input.

I just... Assuming we all know to Down Throw.. which I represent as arrows :3
Grab -> Hold forward (Buffer walk) -> Grab -> Repeat.
Buffer Dash Grab is.. Grab -> Dash input (Let go of the analog stick) -> Grab -> repeat.
Boost Grab is.. Grab -> Dash Attack input + Grab -> repeat.
Boost Pivot Grab is.. Grab -> Dash Attack + Grab + Opposite analog input -> Repeat.


Hope this helps! The timing can be tricky with a 10 frame buffer window, but with practice you can get it.

 

[flow222]

Do all the CG on Olimar have to be buffered and boost grabbed? Also, what's a good finisher if you're not at the edge for the dair spike?

 

[-LzR-]

How do I buffer a boostgrab? I would like to know how to cg Marth consistently. What about when you grab him at like 15%, how do you know how many grabs you can pull off? And is a buffered dair guaranteed after cg on Marth or can he upB?

 

[flow222]

How do I buffer a boostgrab? I would like to know how to cg Marth consistently. What about when you grab him at like 15%, how do you know how many grabs you can pull off? And is a buffered dair guaranteed after cg on Marth or can he upB?

Don't quote me on this....but...

To buffer a dash after the d-throw, you would have to tap the direction you're headed (left or right) on the control stick and release it within the 10 frame window for buffering. Then to do the boost grab you need to add the dash attack cancelled grab (dash attack then very very soon after the dash attack input hit the grab button, for example I do dash-> c-stick down-> immediately after use z) within that same 10 frame window. If you grab him at 15%....I'm actually not sure. I think it would depend on the freshness of the d-throw, but I think the CG should still work at that percent regardless if it's stale/fresh (don't quote me on that though). For Marth, I think you can get a total of 6 grabs if you have that much space starting from 0% (first grab, second grab can be buffered dash I think, then last four must be boosted). So if you're starting at 15% then maybe another 3-4 since d-throw does 8-9% (again, not sure if stale/freshness comes into play here but I think that's another variable to consider). I think if you do the CG up to around the ~42% mark then the dair should be good, but after that I think Marth can get away...I think.

Hopefully this helps....not sure if I'm right but I think some things in there are correct and if I'm wrong on anything please tell me, I'm trying to learn too!

edit: To add something I try to do...for some reason when I try to do a buffered boost grab on Marth I end up short from grabbing him, so usually I just buffer a dash and then soon after falco starts the animation I boost grab.

 

[teluoborg]

From experience you don't need to buffer the boost grab in order to CG Marth, you don't even need to buffer the dash iirc. It's all about timing, and the only way to get the timing is practice. Practice your boost grabs until you get them to cover the needed distance. Also Dair is guaranteed if you're at the right percentage.

About grabbing Marth at 15% : that's way too late to get the full CG, you'll probably be able to get 2 regrabs if you boost grab perfectly. This is not 100% accurate tho, someone should try to get the exact numbers.

About what to do to end the CG when not on the ledge :
-If you're close to the ledge then Dair anyway (preferably FFAC'd) and techchase, your opponent's options are very limited in this situation so you can land at least one more hit if you're paying attention. If he misses the tech you're golden and can even land a free Fsmash.
-If you're far from the ledge then you can still go for a SHFFAC Dair but with less follow up potential. Or you can go for the guaranteed damage with Usmash/Fsmash.
Else you can try to cheese with things like Jab to regrab (at mid % jab stops the knockback and makes them fall right in front of you), late dash attack to Utilt/Jab/grab, dash to shieldgrab, gatling, etc. Take advantage of the pressure Dthrow puts on your opponent but don't be too greedy.

About Olimar : idk, just jab that guy and don't think about CGing too much.

 

[-LzR-]

If you don't need to buffer it then doesn't simply a buffered dash grab work?

 

[teluoborg]

Nah, you need that small teleport boost grab provides, Falco doesn't dash fast enough to compensate for that.

Edit : to be more precise what I meant by "you don't need to be buffer" is that the execution of the boost grab doesn't need to be frame perfect.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'll make a post soon.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Does anyone play this character with any shred of consideration for stage control? I am just wondering how people perceive things when playing a match. Is there a game plan in mind or is it all improvisation and gut feeling about what to do next.

 

[kismet2]

All I think about is what do to next for control haha. I practice mixups and combos so that I'm familiar with what's going on and the best possible option for situations. Stage control is a very important thing for Falco, it's very effective when looking for kills. A game plan helps when you get tired of fishing for kills!

To be honest, it's good to have both. ^_^ It's awesome to have a game plan but you have to follow through with your gut feeling. The game plan will cover most of your opponent's options if done right which will help you decide what you should do next.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I have no answer.

 

[luxingo]

When do you ledgedrop > jump > reflector? I've seen a few players use it but it seems quite risky, especially since you'll have no more jumps if you get hit and Falco has a sub-par recovery.

 

[kismet2]

Depends on where your opponent is and what they're doing. If I see that they're close enough and they are just throwing out moves, dashing forward, shielding(best if their shield is looking low), or even spotdodge then I'll take that opportunity to ledgehop shine. It's good when you know your moments to really apply it, definitely one of my favorite ledge options. Sometimes you can ledgehop Nair or Dair then retreat to grab the ledge again as a mixup to ledgehop shine. ^_^ Both Nair and Dair stay out for a very long time and will end just before you grab the ledge, it's a nice way of making your opponent to press buttons, then if that happens you can ledgehop shine!

Of course, I'm not saying that Falco should be seen on the ledge more lol but if your opponent is really holding down the stage and in a position to cripple phantasm then this is a good way of finding an opening.

 

[Twigz]

Interesting well guys, is falco one of the hardest characters to learn?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Anyone remember that difficulty chart? It ranked the number of days, weeks, months to pick up a character lol
Falco was up there on the 6 days to pick up list to master haha

But, falco is pretty easy to pick up.

 

[L3G1T]

Hmm. I think Falco is easy to learn, but takes some time to master if you plan on playing aggressively or technically. Going the defensive route is easy to pick up in my opinion, but he does have a good amount of advanced techniques. It did take me a while to get consistent with phantasm cancelling, BDACUS, wavebouncing (there's a slightly more strict timing for Falco), phantasm ledge cancelling, etc. However, most of these techniques aren't "required" to win, so I can see why Falco could take only 6 days to master. Eryx, if you remember, what character was easiest to pick up? XD

 

[kismet2]

Interesting well guys, is falco one of the hardest characters to learn?

No, he's actually one of the easiest lol. Falco has attacks that easily link others for guaranteed damage or set up into kills at many different percents. His game plan never changes from the fact that he's jabbing and lasering to rack damage until you land a move that kills.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/secondaries.215469/
Yep. Here was the list. For some reason, a variety of character boards early on ended up copying it. However, I only explicitly remember DK and Peach boards using this in the past.

 

[L3G1T]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/secondaries.215469/
Yep. Here was the list. For some reason, a variety of character boards early on ended up copying it. However, I only explicitly remember DK and Peach boards using this in the past.

Thanks, though I kind of feel like a scrub now, since I've been working on Falco & technical skill for a good 5 months lol. Then again, that's in addition to learning more about competitive aspects of Brawl. Maybe I'm not understanding, but is this pretty much saying that 4-6 days of practicing with Falco would be enough experience to use him as a secondary in a tourney successfully?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well you have to realize that this was made all the way back in like 2009 lol Its pretty much impossible to gauge how long it would take a person to get good with a character.

For the sake of back then, I think the idea was that you could use a character for X amount of time and become proficient enough to use them as a secondary. If you ignore the scaling of time, I think it gives you a very rough idea of a character difficulty in learning them. I would certainly agree that using ZSS, ICs, or Peach are more difficult to pick-up than MK or Falco. While some things I sort of disagree with like Ike or Sheik.

I would think that very solid characters with nice properties and good attacks and recoveries are generally going to seem easier to pick-up. Ike to me is actually probably one of the easiest characters to pick up and pretty much know how to play. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldA4OZKPonc
If you look at this first stock, San is literally using only 2 moves for the most part of Ike's ground moves Jab, Grab and using most of his aerials. And that's pretty much how I see most of Ike match-ups. Move around, space aerials and grab/jab. Simply add in a little bit of match-up variety for certain situations. I mean, you might not be very good at spacing and stuff, but you will know the main strategy for the character.

Falco is sort of similar to Ike in a way, but with a couple more situational maneuvers. Once you learn the really basic techs with the character, you'll pretty much know the strategy for the character.

Diddy kong though is harder to pick-up due to item game. Snake is similar to diddy kong for the item play, but also having such janky options.

And I think if you understand MK can beat out most characters simply by disjoint alone most of the time, there is not much need to practice with MK for a pocket character.

 

[teluoborg]

Yeah well it doesn't work that way.

Knowing your character's options is the first step obviously.
Using and mastering them is the second.
Last step is knowing when and where to use what, and that's what makes the difference.

Falco players usually stop at the second step because SHDL BPG DTHROW BDACUS YAY.


From what I've seen in videos the only Falco who has mastered the third step is Masha.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Anyone know if Nair/Dair will beat out or trade with Luigi tornado? I saw it a couple times as a way to get underneath falco if he SH lasers, but never got around to experimenting with it much.

 

[kismet2]

I've never tried it myself but it's something worth experimenting. I wouldn't be surprised if Dair beat out Luigi tornado 100% of the time, it's pretty good at countering approaches.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I just hope they don't trade at all. Nair would be better since you can get a grab out of it. But, if it trades Dair is far better.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Ha, nevermind.


Why would you laser close enough for that anyway ?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am always surprised by the distance that DownB ends up covering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_yKhIcrSEU
@3:19
If you pause about 3:20 where Mr.Concon has started the downB, look at the distance that he covers in the span of the time it took DEHF to do a simple short hop laser.

Its this general situation I end up finding myself in where I think I am at a relatively safe distance, but they end up randomly starting a DownB and charging at me and getting underneath me before the laser comes out. Or it ends up trading rather poorly. It doesn't help I am not sure how to DI the DownB. At lower percents, holding for merely ASDI works, but other times I end up slamming into the ground due to ASDI at higher percents.

As I said, trading laser with DownB doesn't seem to help (at least I always seem to DI poorly and end up on the ground or in the air due to the last hit). Depending upon their direction control, air dodge doesn't work since it last so long. The really only thing against it is Nair/Dair to try beating it out, but I never got around to looking into it more. YoshQ never does it much, while a couple of random luigi's I have played do. Its one of the few things in the luigi match-up I feel shouldn't be happening, but does.

 

[teluoborg]

Luigi's Cyclone doesn't have projectile properties like MK's tornado or glide attack so no, Dair/Nair will never clash.

You'll either beat it or trade hits, maybe even be beaten by it with Nair because the hitboxes aren't constantly out. I'd recommend using Dair or Bair because they are disjointed, because the hitbox lingers for a stupidly long time and because you can FFAC them.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I am always surprised by the distance that DownB ends up covering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_yKhIcrSEU
@3:19
If you pause about 3:20 where Mr.Concon has started the downB, look at the distance that he covers in the span of the time it took DEHF to do a simple short hop laser.

Its this general situation I end up finding myself in where I think I am at a relatively safe distance, but they end up randomly starting a DownB and charging at me and getting underneath me before the laser comes out. Or it ends up trading rather poorly. It doesn't help I am not sure how to DI the DownB. At lower percents, holding for merely ASDI works, but other times I end up slamming into the ground due to ASDI at higher percents.

As I said, trading laser with DownB doesn't seem to help (at least I always seem to DI poorly and end up on the ground or in the air due to the last hit). Depending upon their direction control, air dodge doesn't work since it last so long. The really only thing against it is Nair/Dair to try beating it out, but I never got around to looking into it more. YoshQ never does it much, while a couple of random luigi's I have played do. Its one of the few things in the luigi match-up I feel shouldn't be happening, but does.

I actually feel unsafe trying to laser at that distance versus most Characters, and yeah, his Down B multi hits send you out to the side, so be ready to tech, cept the last hit.
I think Di up will allow you to miss the final hit, like Pikachu's Dsmash.

It's why it's used to gimp firebird.

 

[PEACE7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFNTnS1xusU 3:05-3:06?

 

[luxingo]

You know those attacks that hit you into the ground and also slide you off the stage/platform so that you can immediately do something once you're off the stage/platform? Zelda's dsmash does this sometimes. If you want a video example of what I mean, watch MK at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFNTnS1xusU#t=3m37s and see how Falco's dair hits him into the ground but slides him off the stage, where he can immediately grab the ledge.

Anyway, the shuttle loop in that part of the video hits Falco into the platform and slides him off the platform (where he can now input anything). Falco then uses phantasm, and he's still moving backwards when he's in the ~20 start up frames of phantasm but he manages to get back onto the platform.

 

[kismet2]

Phantasm keeps the momentum when you get knocked away at higher percents. So before you move forward from phantasm it's kind of a gamble whether or not you make it back but most of the time it covers enough distance for you to reach the stage. Also it's funny that he barely made it back to the platform and was STILL moving backwards which pushed him offstage to where he can mash out phantasm. Pretty useful when the situation comes up and something I'll definitely keep in mind.

 

[luxingo]

Do you throw away the armor pieces against ZSS?

 

[teluoborg]

Keep one, throw one up, throw the last one offstage.

Falco's shine makes it way too easy to gain control of armor pieces, its disjointed reflecting hitbox is exactly what you need against ZSS. Plus the reflecting effect lasts longer than the IASA, which means you can shield and still be able to reflect stuff.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, not entirely. There is no IASA on the move, but the reflection hitbox is out for the entire duration of the move that Falco cannot do anything.