Official Battlefield of the Gods - Pit / Dark Pit Matchup Discussion *Corrin, Samus, Shulk*

[CHOMPY]

Pit[too] can use dash grab against Wario's bike without getting hit.

Video please. I know that Nair for sure has the priority to knock Wario off from his bike.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Video please. I know that Nair for sure has the priority to knock Wario off from his bike.

It can the bike will fly up in the air just tested it

 

[KiyoXDragon]

I've grabbed Wario off the bike before XD how effective is it though......

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I've grabbed Wario off the bike before XD how effective is it though......

Probably should hit him with a arrow the bike shows no mercy

 

[Sensane]

Probably should hit him with a arrow the bike shows no mercy

Arrows don't work though; it can break through most projectiles.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I'm a Wario Main. You can grab Wario off the bike, but that doesn't even matter since Wario can wheelie to interrupt your shield grab after the initial hit on shield. I've played this MU many times for over a year now with the Dark Pit legend Crabby. Wario can edge-guard pit hard with d-air and bike+waft near ledge (The bike can actually force pit's upperdash arm to activate as it is a sitting projectile, but pit can sweetspot if low enough). Pit has trouble edge-guarding Wario unless you can arrow him off the bike which is hard. If Wario recovers high with Bike, it's very hard to catch his landing given his air speed and landing options. It's doable though. If a Wario chooses to abuse bite, you can not just run up and grab/dash attack or you will lose. Pit's dash attack will beat Wario's bite if well spaced. Pit's disjoints can give Wario small difficulty here and there. Wario also loses footsies hard to Pit. U-smash is the best way to get wario off the bike. If you asked me, the match-up is not bad for Wario at all. I think Wario struggles against other disjointed characters more. Trust me, I really don't think this is hard for Wario at all.

I'd say 50-50 if both players know the match-up, with Wario winning if the Pit does not know the Match-up. Waft is unfortunately easy to land on Pit if you whiff a smash and while recovering in general. Wario is very susceptible to pivots grabs if the Wario tries to fast fall land with d-air or n-air, which is why I never do it in this match-up. It requires extraordinary patience on the Pit's part. I believe Pit controls the pace of the match with arrows, but I cannot quite say for sure, because I'm not sure if that's a legitmate pressuring tool. Wario's sh-fair perfectly puts him over arrow height, so if I see a pit charging an arrow, I will just sh-fair over it.

 

[Koiba]

I have ZERO knowledge in these MU's but gonna tag Macchiato because he mains or used to? :^) Barefoot Waifu Trainer~

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Arrows don't work though; it can break through most projectiles.

Oh I was talking about hitting him directly as in short hopping running straight into it just doesn't sound safe

Who's he?

 

[Koiba]

ROUND 1




http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...glypuff-and-lucas.414936/page-4#post-20223311


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ROUND 2




http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...glypuff-and-lucas.414936/page-7#post-20587440


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ROUND 3

*part 2*


http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...lypuff-and-lucas.414936/page-10#post-20836149



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ROUND 4




http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...-wii-fit-trainer.414936/page-13#post-21052685


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Spoiler: Luigi

Spoiler: Quotes

I've played this match many times both in and out of bracket, so I think I have a decent amount of experience with it. Just gonna jot down my thoughts real quick:

I think Pit has an advantage in this matchup, but not a very big one. I'd say it's +1, though there's a case to be made for it being more even than that. Pit has a few assets in this matchup: his superior neutral game (better mobility enables him to play good footsies, plus he has disjoints and a solid grab game that rivals Luigi's) and edgeguarding (arrow sniping and disjoints can hinder Luigi's relatively predictable recovery), I think, ensure he just about outdoes Luigi in this matchup.

On the flip side, Luigi has his own strengths that can't be ignored: notably, his grab game is still very effective despite being heavily nerfed and he still gets great mileage out of d-throw thanks to his air game's speed and combo potential (though b-throw is also a kill throw at high percents). Making a mistake in neutral can be costly, since Luigi can kill or do heavy damage with his fast and powerful smashes and sweetspot up-b. Even boxing with him can be difficult due to his jab (note that jab 2 can confirm into grab if you don't intercept it or DI) and n-air (both frame 3). This if offset by his poor mobility and weak approach options outside of fireball, so if you can wall him out, there's not much he can do - this is the crux of the matchup and what keeps him from dominating it. What you want to do, then, is optimise spacing him out in neutral and avoiding situations that can be punished.

I think Pit has to play very patiently, Luigi's fireballs can be surprisingly frustrating and Pit wants to stay the hell away from that grab if he can help it. You want to try and powershield the fireballs if you can, but don't feel compelled to rush in and punish, Luigi thrives on baiting you out and then reading your approach. Luigi can really get in good damage with his grab and absurdly fast aerial combos, and he can be a demon in his own space and if he gets momentum going, but he's held back by how close-ranged he is since he has poor air mobility and no (notable) disjoints. It's not too difficult to box out Luigi in neutral, since Pit has better mobility and good disjoints, but Luigi can punish mistakes very effectively with 'nado, smashes or sweetspot up-b. That and Luigi's n-air can make it difficult to force the advantage, since it can break combos and kill if there's even a tiny opening. Go for grab followups if you get the opportunity, but don't try to force the followups: not only can his n-air break the combos, as mentioned, but his floatiness can make it easy for him to DI out of combos in the first place.

Off-stage, Pit should have the advantage too. Luigi has a few ways of recovering (up-b, side-b and down-b), but it's not difficult to read their trajectory and punish accordingly, and arrow sniping can mess him up if he has to recover from a distance. His 'nado and b-air can punish Pit similarly to how Mario and Doc's can, but it shouldn't be difficult to keep him out with disjoints and mix up your recovery so he can't get the punish. He can't really afford to go deep off-stage in the way that Pit can, so he's going to primarily fight and get his kills on-stage.

Pit should have the upper hand if he keeps his cool and plays to his strengths, essentially just denying Luigi the opportunity to get close and do heavy damage. I think it's in Pit's favour if optimally played, but you need to be cognisant of Luigi's options the entire time. Even a small mistake can be punished heavily, and Luigi is great at pressing home for big damage when he finds an opening.

Pit
Pros:

Disjoint can beat out most of Luigi’s aerials and approach options
Arrows force Luigi to approach
Can punish Luigi’s poor aerial mobility with Usmash and aerials
Can gimp early with arrows. Can also go off stage due to multiple jumps and good distance on his recovery.

Cons:
Dies relatively early to Luigi’s strong smash attacks
Pit’s height makes him vulnerable to being combed by Luigi
Luigi can nair out of many combos
Luigi has better frame data on certain aerials which can make it difficult for Pit to get rid of him once he gets in.

Imo Pit wants to play defensively in neutral by forcing Luigi to approach with arrows and not giving Luigi any openings to get a grab and begin his combo strings. Luigi can struggle to get in vs characters with disjoints and although Pit doesn’t have a huge disjoint on his aerials it is enough to make things difficult if the Luigi player is impatient. Nair OoS is a good option for Pit should he find himself stuck in shield as nair will clank with fireballs. When landing be cautious of Luigi’s UpSmash as it has deceptive range over and behind Luigi’s head.Luigi's landing is also rather punishable due his poor air mobility, Pit's up smash will beat out any move Luigi can throw out beneath him and side b can also be useful. Getting Luigi off stage at any percent puts Pit in an advantageous position as Pit’s arrows and aerials can make it very difficult for Luigi to get back to the stage. Forcing Luigi to recover low can make him vulnerable to Pit’s dair or being stage spiked via bair. Likewise Luigi also has options for intercepting Pit’s upB with dair (which has a potent spikebox around the shoes) or nair which has a relatively longlasting hitbox (frame 3 to 31 faik). Fireballs are one of Luigi’s safer tools in neutral and can intercept arrows or force Pit into shield. Luigi’s fireballs come out 3 frames faster but do not have the reach of Pit’s arrows.

Just to say, because I forgot to mention it, I think both Pits have their strengths in the Luigi matchup. Pit is definitely a solid choice because arrows can really mess with The Green Man's recovery options if he has to recovery from a distance, but otherwise you shouldn't be afraid to challenge him off-stage the old-fashioned way. Aside from 'nado endlag or a dodgy landing, I don't think you'll find much safe opportunities to get the Electroshock kill, but it has the added benefit of potentially putting Luigi in a disadvantaged position off-stage. Go with whatever you're comfortable with in this matchup!

Pre-patch matchups, but these videos are worth watching - Boss doesn't rely on grab cheese in either, so there's good display of fundamental from both sides. It's not easy to find high-level examples of this matchup, but these should suffice.

Nairo vs Boss

Pink Fresh vs Boss

While my experience with Pit is quite limited, I'll try to give it a go (just be sure to correct me if I'm wrong on some points about the Pits).

I've never actually been scared by this MU at all. I find it quite even. You see, with a projectile able to clank with arrows and with a very workable foxtrot, Luigi can be quite slippery on ground to the point where it's frustrating. Luigi NEVER wants to rushdown on an opponent like Pit. Rather, he wants to bait an apporach with very patient play. Both want to play a similar game, in a sense. Except Pit trades reward for a better/safer neutral while Luigi trades safety for more reward. Both edge guard each other very well. Disjoints always give Luigi disdain when he's trying to recover. On the other hand, while I don't think Pit's up b is necessarily crap, it's cyclone gimping bait. Pit's side b is confusing with its super armor frames, so I personally don't try to challenge it (probably a mistake on my part, however). Other than that, mobility gives Pit the edge in footsies, along with more range and disjoint. Luigi should be especially cautious in his approach, but the reward is worth it. If Luigi catches Pit making a mistake, he's getting in. His combos hurt, and he doesn't get off of you easily. (Just a question, does pit have any reliable GTFO me moves that reliably shake Luigi off? Again, my experience is rather limited about Pit, so answers to this question would be nice). Other than that, Pit's disadvantage state seems rather lackluster, though I may be underrating the whole multiple jumps thing. Luigi's disadvantage...isn't bad in the sense that you can't be reaching too much during your combos in fear of Luigi's fast aerials. At the same time, Luigi can be prone to getting juggled, since his airspeed is terrible and his range pales in comparison to any disjoint. So, that's a rather sloppy explanation of why I think the way I do. Sorry it wasn't well written, drama practice is a thing and our show is on Friday. The crunch time is real . if you have any specific questions, don't be afraid to ask. I'll get to them later

After writing all of this: I, personally, think Pit has a slight advantage while Dark Pit has a slight disadvantage. Pit's arrows are especially useful for edge guarding while Dark Pit's side B relies on a mistake from Luigi (a Luigi should never try cyclone or any laggier attack unless he's VERY confident he's going to land it) and D Pit's arrows are much less of a hassle in general. So D Pit's essentially getting tools taken away for a potential punishing tool (should he whiff, should get Luigi's up b punish in return)

Well, if the Luigi sees that you are going to punish his landing with side b and sees it coming, then I'd imagine that he could Cyclone away and avoid it. Other than that, Electroshock could potentially be a potent surprise for the Luigi. But, while this is more of a player thing, unless you can consistently force the Luigi into an unfavorable position, the player is going to adapt. in a sense, it reminds me of Luigi's own jab into up b set up. A very potent set up for that one kill, but unless you can force your opponent to fall into another up b, good luck hitting it again on a skilled player.

Luigi doesn't seem to have much to directly combat it, however. Best three options besides a retreating cyclone I can really think of are using your double jump to bait out the side b, challenging from above with a Dair (assuming that side b doesn't score a hit on us even then, of course), and fast fall into shield.

Luigi should be going for a ledge reset everytime he is being juggled. His landing options are horrible enough he does not want to risk it. See: U-air and U-smash beating everything.

Personally, the Pits don't scare me... like, at all. They don't kill me with five hits or consistently put me in serious disadvantage onstage. The result of this matchup relies almost entirely on the players' fundamentals IMO. Luigi shouldn't be going in but neither should Pit because none of their projectiles are threathening or they have a (good) reflector (Well, Pit has Arm and Orbitars but you're commiting hard in that case). Pit's disjoints is hard for Luigi to get through if he doesn't know what he is doing. A trick I like to do is to bait those move out while not getting hit by the attack itself. Then I throw out a Fireball or go in depending on the move's recovery. IMO, this is Luigi's answer to disjoints aside from PS. He doesn't shield nor tank, he avoids it then strike.

When Luigi gets in, he doesn't do as much damage as he would want to as Pit has multiple jumps and nice enough D-air to cover his landings from U-smash (But getting grabbed still means great reward for Luigi, and aerials can be baited). But Pit IIRC doesn't either. Both can have trouble killing, but I would say Luigi has the edge due to his lagless smashes and SHFF B-air (Which trades and kills well). Pit's U-smash misses a lot of times from my experience and F-smash is very risky at kill percents.

I would give the advantage to Pit in this MU, however, because offstage. Onstage, both characters are mostly even against each other. But offstage, Luigi suffers. PoF is easy to predict, but Arm is completely different thing. You can't just go out your way and JC gimp or D-air spike as you would with PoF.

Luigi should never use his Missile offstage. He instead must recover low or high to mix things up with Cyclone, because Missile is laughably pathetic vs Pit. Actually, there isn't much of a time where Missile is actually good offstage in just about every matchups except for Mac, but that's a different story.

I would give 55:45 Pit. Maybe others can rectify things I missed, because I haven't played Pit seriously for a long time.

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Spoiler: Puff

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As for ...

I have to say I don't have much experience in this matchup, but just based on observation, it shouldn't be difficult for Pit. Puff has better air mobility and prides herself on being an aerial wall, but Pit's disjoints trade well with her aerials and she doesn't have the damage output or kill power to really threaten Pit if he plays patiently. You don't want to rush in throw out things sporadically, you want to bait her into the open and challenge her with disjoints and get in damage wherever you can. Puff can stall for days if she wants to, so don't feel compelled to chase her: she wants to duck and weave to make her more difficult to hit, then jump in to punish when she can. Take it easy and play patiently. She will have to challenge you eventually. She shouldn't be a problem off-stage either, since it's mostly an extension of her neutral game: weaving and throwing out aerials to pressure and provoke you into doing something silly.

I won't offer a final score, since I'm just going mostly by observation and a bit of theory, but I think it's a very doable matchup if you're patient and can challenge her in the air.

Yeah, I think puff struggles quite a bit, especially if you spacing you disjoints really well. Puff's playstyle is just weaving back and out with aerials like you said lol.

But I don't know it TOO well so sed. Might make some points later if I remember
Just don't do any laggy moves when you're at 50% 'kay?

And her nair is pretty deadly offstage

On the matchup:

Not very hard for Pit. Probably a +2.
In neutral: Pit has the advantage. Ftilt stops any short-hop aerials from Jigglypuff, and her aerials aren't too hard to shield anyways, so no problems there. It's a good strategy to pretty much stay in one place and let the Jigglypuff come to you, because you can just out range all of her approaches with Pits disjoint and rack up damage that way. Grab combos don't really work on Jigglypuff, so if you do grab, get a couple pummels, and a throw to put some damage in her.
On killing: Jigglypuff is easy to kill. She's super light and should die before 100% every time. All you really need is a good side-b or side-smash read. Though, if you are having trouble, what I try to pull of is an up throw then try to force the Jigglypuff to airdodge or somehow read her landing and get an upsmash in.

On the tools Jigglypuff has: Jigglypuff can give Pit some trouble landing with up-air, but thats not too difficult to avoid. Also, she can edgeguard Pit decently, though in my experience Pit can usually find a way back to stage without dying or taking too much damage. Overall, the only thing you really need to watch out for is rest. Just don't land on top of Jigglypuff with an aerial, and don't use your smashes/side-b (though down smash can be hard for a Jigglypuff to punish with a rest) unless you're sure they're going to hit.

Puff is one of those strange matchups where you have to play patiently, but not panic. If you panic, such as consistent sidedoge/rolling, your going to get bopped by her rest move and it ain't pretty dying at 40%. Similar to how you fight against Little Mac, you can far ahead in percent lead, but Puff's rest and bair can turn the tides around real quick. Good Puff players will stay grounded because they realize that their range is no match for Pit's blades. The hardest part about the matchup is you can't combo Puff, due to how floaty she can be, so your going to have to play the matchup slowly. Fortunately, she is a light character, so Pit's usmash can kill as early as 90%. If you get too hasty with your dash grabs, upperdash arm (for the kill), or dash attacks, your asking to get punished. Take your time and the opportunity will be there. Arrows won't be of much use, due to her aerials outprioritizing our arrows. Puff has one of the best aerial mobility in the game, so I would not recommend challenging her air speed by any means, let her come to you and you should be fine. Puff has a really bad ground game as well, so if you empty short hop back and throw out a jab, that can shut down her ground game approach, forcing her to come at you in the air, which is what Pit is looking for in the matchup.

40:60 (Puffs Favor) if Puff is playing a grounded game.
70:30 (Pits favor) if she is playing an air game

As a former puff main (moved on to villager) i can say with confidence that you guys win the MU by a fair margin. 60:40 dark pits favor, maybe even more so. Think about puffs strengths.. She has high aerial mobility, allowing her to weave in and out nicely, shes hard to combo and.. thats about it. Playing against an aerial puff your aerials outspace her to the point that you can challange nearly everything she does. Just watch her mobility patterns, how she weaves in and out, as soon as you see your opponent about to commit do an in place or retreating forward air. There is no need for you to play aggressive, because she has to come to you. Another thing puffs love to do is gimp peoples recoveries, but because you have multiple jumps you can make this very difficult. Dont be afraid to jump around waiting for an oppening to return to stage, puffs do eventually run out of jumps, and when they do they have no Up B to save them. This leads into my next point: count your opponent's jumps. They count them, and so should you. Puff might be able to jump around a lot but her movement options are fairly linear, so you should be able to spot a puffs landing and punish, if you are paying attention.

Honestly the only hope a puff has against you is to get the rest, which is why its important not to play too aggressive. You dont want to be playing right on top of a good puff. Keep the pressure on, but dont over extend yourself. Space your moves smartly and the win is practically in the bag

Jigglypuff has trouble approaching both pits. Arrows don't do too much to us, but Pit's aerials outrange us; a big problem for a character that is mostly airborne. On the ground, things aren't much better. Jigglypuff has to play really safe due to Pit's powerful moves that can take an early stock.
To play this MU, Puff has to play very safely, consistently baiting and punishing, never overextending, and spacing both fair and bair correctly because Pits are fast and can punish unsafe approaches well.
With the new buff, Dark Pit's side-b kills us at a ridiculously low percent. So does uncharged fsmash.
Now let's talk about Jiggly's advantages. Most of Pit's combos don't work on us, at least at higher percents. As I said, arrows are easy to just dodge and you can't hit us with strings of aerials as easily. We're pretty much ungimpable. Your dair is too slow to hit us and we can easily evade your footstools. If anything, Jigglypuff can gimp Pit in certain situations.
Also, a whiffed side B can sometimes be punished with a rest so watch out.
Overall, I'd say the MU is in Pit's favor due to Jigglypuff having trouble approaching and Pit's range/speed/punishes.
It's not unwinnable but certainly unpleasant.
I'd say it's 70-30
and like 73-27 due to side b

But I do think because of our kill power and disjointed hit boxes that we dominate her in the air and on the ground. The only area she may have a very slight advantage I believe would be edgeguarding because of her long lasting hit box with Nair. I would give us +2 on that match up.

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Spoiler: Lucas

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Some notes on the Lucas MU:

• Orbitars can hurt Lucas's air game similar to Peach, though not as effective.
• Orbitars reflect PK fire pretty reliably. Otherwise just shield.
• Dank Pit is better for this MU because gimping Lucas with arrows isn't as effective against Lucas. Plus it's common sense not to ise arrows in neutral against Lucas so much anyways.
• Do not take Lucas to Dreamland as for some reason he can gain stage control very easily on that stage (likely due to the platform layouts).
• Lucas's n-air can be SDI'd out of, so be wary of that.
• Taking Lucas to FD can weaken Lucas's camping ability since his ground game isn't as good as his air game.
• Town and City is doable since characters can die to electroshock very early on that stage.
• Lucas can be tricky to combo at times due to his floatiness.
• Lucas players will often tether to the stage for recovery thanks to Lucas's far reaching z-air.
• Z-air is a very good zoning and baiting tool.
• Like with Ness, Lucas's up b can be orbitar gimped and screw it over significantly.
• Try not to get grabbed thanks to Lucas's stupidly fast grab.
• For some reason his name is Ridley on the kurogane hammer website. Someone tell me why.
• Lucas's b-air can give us a hard time recovering horizontally, so recover diagonally or below the stage, but obviously mix it up.

I'd say that this is a pretty even matchup at this point.

One thing I have to say about the Puff MU is don't rely on the arm too much to get the kill. Her air mobility can bait one and then punish with a rest. Happened to me once.

Lucas is an interesting one. Lucas is all about playing a good spacing game, he can wall you with wave bounce PK Fire, zair to shut down Pit's ground game approach at times, nair > ftilt, and retreating fair. In the neutral, Lucas can cross up shields with his Nair and then wall you with ftilt to prevent Pit from dash attacking. The best way to get around Lucas's Z-air is by dash shielding and then punish it with a dash attack. Usually when Lucas lands, they throw out their fastest tilts to ensure safety. The best way to force Lucas to approach is throwing out fairs, nairs, full hop arrows. What will happen is Lucas will start to approach and thats where Pit can shine and take over the stage control.

In terms of offstage game, you can still gimp Lucas the same way you can gimp Ness with the guardian orbitars, as long as Lucas is about two characters length away from the ledge. However, Lucas can tether grab, so be wary of that and go for the dair spike if your going to predict he will tether grab the ledge. Also, Lucas can't really bair spike Pit, thanks to Pit's up B recovery that denies the spike.

Don't shield too much because that's exactly what Lucas wants you to do and he can combo Pit to oblivion. Once your in Lucas's face, there isn't much Lucas can do to fight back. When your in kill range, watch out for his dthrow to uair, as it can kill early at around 110%. If you get grabbed, just DI away from Lucas, making his job a little harder. Generally, Lucas is a character that needs a lot of space to move around, so if you take him to smaller stages like battlefield or dreamland, he can't space as wall and the platforms can really hinder him at times.

Fun fact:

-After the first energy blast from Lucas's dsmash, you can drop your shield and punish Lucas without taking a hit. Meaning there is no hitbox after the first hit from the dsmash.

70:30 (Pit's Favor)

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Spoiler: Yoshi

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Pit Yoshi is +1 for Pit.
Yoshi has a hard time landing against him or even space moves because dash attack and upsmash cover most of Yoshis options.
This MU is in my opinion one of the most mental straining neutrals Yoshi can have because Yoshi has to play extremely conservative while Pit waits for Yoshi so commit to something, because Pit doesn't want to commit himself.

Aggressive Yoshis are beaten pretty hard by Pit and if Pit plays to aggressive it makes things a lot easier for Yoshi so playing defensive and conservativ is the best option for both.

Pit has the advantage because Yoshi cannot really get in so he has to try to do something but spacing Aerials etc. are beaten or punished by dash attack and upsmash.

Yoshi can't really get the KO in that MU as well except he gets some nice strings. It's a pain to get the KO on Pit but I'm bad at edge guarding Pit so not sure about this.

But If Yoshi gets in he can get a lot of pressure on Pit and rack damage really fast. Pit also has problems getting the KO at Yoshi if Yoshi avoids getting upsmashed.

Thats my experience against some very high leveled Pit players in germany.

Yoshi MU is Weird...but maybe it's just because I don't understand Yoshi too well.
When the Yoshi is hyper aggressive...he's gonna lose. Pit and DP have no problem removing him from the stage whenever he whiffs a Dair or Fair or something stupid like that. But when the Yoshi is more careful and conservative the MU gets a lot more trying...

With DP it's just mentally strenuous because nobody wants to challenge anything. At least for me, the match typically comes to a point where Yoshi is just jumping and throwing eggs to keep DP away and DP just in shield trying to find the right time to start juggling him. No one wants to approach.

Yoshi doesn't really want to stay on the ground too long because DP is just going to grab him. Not to mention most of Yoshi's ground game seems to be pretty inneffective against DP. Arrows clank Egg roll, and most of DP's normals or just Short Hop Fair will out range Yoshi's. However in the air if yoshi spaces his aerials correctly then DP also starts struggling. I would not want to challenge that boot, Yoshi's nair just scares me.

When it comes to offstage the game belongs to the angels though. It's not too hard to gimp yoshi as he doesn't have much of an option to get back on the stage other than...jump. And when Yoshi throws the angels off the stage, they have all the tools needed to mixup their recoveries enough so that it's harder for them to get headbutted and they can usually recover from areas lower than Yoshi can even reach. I literally had a game where Yoshi SD'd twice because he went far too deep for a gimp.

I would say 50:50 for DP in particular. Maybe 55:45 for Pit because at least then Pit has a way to poke Yoshi in the Air with arrows instead of having to challenge nair with his aerials or start fishing for Up Smashes.

I disagree Pit has such an easy time offstage. DJ is not yoshi's only recovery option, he actually can mix up his recovery really well with egg throws and choosing when to use his DJ and also has a pretty good air dodge -> Nair gtfo option after the DJ in case pit happens to read when and were he's going with his DJ. The only way yoshi is probably screwed offstage against Pit is if he is threw offstage without his DJ. And for Pit's recovery, yoshi can easily intercept Pit's Up B with a Fair or a Nair, so if the angels happen to be under the stage and has no other way of recoverying they're screwed

As for the MU i'd rate it as an even. Neither character has a safe way of approaching each other.
Basically the character who approaches first lose lol

I'm new here but I can tell you something about the Yoshi match up in this match up eggs are gonna be a problem but what ever you do don't reflect them you have to play really agessive and not give him the chance to start camping arrows pop eggs ( it's just something I thought I should say) if the Yoshi your playing starts being agessive then fall back and go for a bait and punish game and whatever you do don't get fair spike again I'm new here so I don't know if this will help our not but if it doesn't don't pick pit pick bayo ( since she's the new best fighter in the game) kappa

We've been saying not to play aggressive against Yoshi because the mu requires patience and proper zoning.

I said play agessive because when my friend plays pit he always plays agessive and it seems to work for him

Is the reason that we shouldn't reflect eggs because when we reflect them they don't go in a direction where they will hit Yoshi?

Exactly and our reflector is laggy so he'll bait it out and punish ous when it drops

IMO:

(55:45)

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Spoiler: Quotes

On the matchup:

First thought is that you can force Marth to approach with arrows. And since Marth doesn't have the best approach options, this is generally a pretty good strategy. Forcing the Marth to approach, shield-grabbing and getting grab combos to rack up damage usually works, in my experience. Also, Marth is quite easy to juggle. His dair doesn't do much and he's pretty floaty, so you can get some decent damage from that. Another thing is that is doesn't have many good landing options, so dash attacking, up smashing, and throwing out side-specials is actually pretty effective. Edgeguarding Marth is also not too hard cause of his linear recovery, but you have to watch out for getting stage spiked by his up b.

Marth has some tools against Pit, but he might not get to use them if you don't approach. He can out-space many of Pits approach options, but that can be countered by running up then shielding. He also gains an advantage when Pit is above him, so try not to get above him and get juggled. Marth is a good edgeguarder, so going off-stage can lead to a lot of damage on Pit, even if Pits recovery prevents Marth from outright killing Pit this way.

Overall, I'd say the matchup is a +1 in Pits favor. Neither Pit is better than the other, as regular Pit's arrows harass Marths recovery and Dark Pit's side special can catch Marths landing for an early kill. My main note would be the advice of not taking Marth to battlefield. I feel that the platforms help Marth's approach and don't give Pit any advantage that Marth wouldn't also have too.

On the topic of I'd like to say it might be slightly even or in the Pits favor. Both characters play fundamentally similar when it comes to conditioning and spacing. Obviously Marth gets rewarded much more for his spacing. Both characters can juggle exceptionally well so neither wants to be above the other, However I think Pit has an easier time landing than Marth has against Pit. My reason being is since we have multiple jumps Marth has to try reading our landings a little more. Never land near or infront of Marth but the same could be said about any character. Once we read his jumps marth gets desperate to land, space yourself away from any of his whiffed aerials , read any counters he throws out and punish his landings with dash attack, upperdash/electroshock, dash grab/ throw him either above you or off stage preferebly the latter.

Off stage he can edge guard us but he won't exactly kill us, we however can harass marth so hard and it helps even more if you can intercept his recovery with some sniped arrows or a run off fast fall fair. I've noticed some Marths like to recover low and I have had luck doing run off dairs to kill him. Of course that's very situational. Either way I've never had a real problem with Marth in general. It's only when I play a patient marth where it heavily becomes footsies and tight spacing .

IMO:

(60:40)

Spoiler: Vids

Spoiler: Customs On

Nada

Spoiler: Customs Off

Spoiler: Cloud

Spoiler: Quotes

Please don't die, MU thread :,(.
I have a couple notes on fighting cloud, though:

• Dark Pit's arrows are transcendant against standard blade beam. Don't know about Pit's yet.
• Don't bother camping with arrows since that's exactly what Cloud wants you to do so that he can just charge limit breaks.
• Keep the pressure up by using arrows at close range and autocanceled aerials.
• D-tilt and d-smash are [in theory] pretty effective against standard climmhazard.
• It's pronounced Clim-hazard, not climb-hazard.
• Try fighting him almost as if you would fight a little mac and try to get him offstage, whether or not cloud has a limit break up.
• When he has a limit break up, put him in a situation where he has to use either a limit blade beam or a limit climmhazard.
• Limit cross slash has invincibility on frames 6-11 with the hitbox starting on frame 10, which D1 just can't stop mentioning lol.
• Finishing touch has no invincibility upon startup.

What I've learned on the Cloud matchups is that it's very hard to land against him. The best way I found to get out of his juggles is to burn your jumps and either get to the ledge or get to the ground far away from the Cloud.

While Orbitars do work, when I used them in the matches I played against a Cloud player, he would just bait out the Orbitars. I honestly found side-specialing out of his face to be just as effective

What I mean is that while it is a good option that I forgot to mention, it is by no means a get out of jail free card

I get to post this again, yay

One of the best players in my reigon plays cloud, and I find that its pretty easy to gimp off stage (Bob is right, treat him like little mac) or you can try and get him to use his limit up b, or you can condition them to think "I need to save my limit for when im off stage in case I get gimped" which means you can sleep on his other limit specials a bit. I find it can be hard to approach cloud when hes just walling us out with Nair, but that might just be me.

Not gonna give a ratio since IDK lol but I can give you some things I guess.

- Orbitars vs. Uair is a good-ish idea but mind your platforms. If you're on a stage like BF I can just AC my Uair and wait for your orbitars to drop.
- Arrow camping is a no-no, I think it was stated before but felt like reiterating.
- Respect Cloud Nair, be wary of Fullhop Double Nair or Fullhop Nair > Action, it's a very strong tool in neutral and Cloud can get away with it a lot.
- Your best spacing aerial in this MU is Fair, for sure. Just be warned, your arm hurtbox on Fair might end up leading to some trades or losing to disjoint as Cloud's disjoint lacks a lot of his own hurtboxes (quite silly).
- Be careful of going to the ledge on recovery if Cloud has Limit. Limit Break Blade Beam is a free 2 frame ledgesnap punish and reversed Limit Break Cross Slash is very dangerous to recover against when going towards the ledge. I'd say use Side-B if possible as Pit/Dark Pit.
- Cloud's recovery is bad but only relatively so. When forcing him offstage try and use moves that disallow upwards DI to attain a solid vertical angle. If Cloud is recovering from above the ledge at any point he's generally guaranteed to make it back, Limit or otherwise, if he recovers smartly. Forcing horizontal is the way to go, Dark Pit Side-B is probably super better in this matchup specifically, although probably not game changing in its existence.

I can only be a lil general since I lack Cloud vs. Pit knowledge specifically (perhaps Bob and I could play again + other people when my time is free yet again) but this stuff seems general and useful enough.

Limit break alone makes cloud go at least even with anyone tbh.

But in general just some pointers from a Pit perspective

-Pit can outspace cloud on a plethora of his moves, uair beats dair, Dair beats clouds uair (if you space perfectly), Alot of Pit's moves outspace nair (e.g even our pivot grab)...the only thing we can't outspace is fair and I think bair but like it's best to just respect those moves and punish on whiff. Also If all else fails, just super armour through everything if you see cloud going for an aerial

-Pit doesn't get juggled as easily with alot of options to choose from, Dair, Side B (try to ledge cancel or ledge snap so you don't get punished), multiple jumps, Down B (if he uairs you he goes flying away). Cloud is a little better at covering our options near the ground though, especially with the added option of usmash which is a crazy anti-air.

-Dealing with cloud at the ledge is fun, we have alot of options. Dair outright beats his Up B and my favourite option is Electroshock, if he doesn't 'sweetspot' the ledge properly it will knock him back at a terrible angle most likely killing him and if it somehow misses you can space it such that your Side B ledge cancels which leaves you in a safe position or let's you ledge trump him as a mixup. Some other options are Down B and Down Smash buuttt down b doesnt always work against a good cloud and it's hard to even trade with dsmash (though the knockback angle is murder against cloud).

-Also for the record you CAN camp cloud but only after he get's his limit, imo this is optimal because when Pit camps he plays extremely defensively and it's hard to punish him so you almost never put yourself at risk of geting hit with a limit break move (because well, full hop arrows have no endlag; talking about Pit btw, Dark Pit can't do this).

-Don't Pick Battlefield against cloud ever, not only can Pit not camp but it gives cloud more camping options and extends his uair combos and makes it harder for us to land against uair as TTTTsd mentioned. Same goes for dreamland to an extent. Imo our best stages are (definitely) FD, Town and City followed by smashville. Yeah I know alot of people say don't pick smashville against cloud because it extends his recovery options but if Cloud chooses to recover onto that platform he risks losing a stock extremely early to Pit's fthrow. I don't think many other characters can punish cloud as hard there. Also it's not hard to react to whether a cloud will go to a ledge or the platform.

All that being said my Cloud experience is limited too, I think getting more Cloud mains to talk about things from their perspective would really shed some light on this MU because we definitely know our advantages against cloud but honestly I haven't seen much talking about our disadvantages against him.

IMO:

(50:50)

Spoiler: Vids

Spoiler: Customs On

Nada

Spoiler: Customs Off

There's literally NOTHING for Lucas in videos lmao

And CHOMPY if you can add these links to the summaries instead of the spoilers in the first post, that's be great :3

 

[Macchiato]

I'd honestly say the match up is basically even between the two.

Wii Fit is outranged by (D)Pit which will make her struggle up close and at mid range due to her low range. Projectiles, Wii Fit wins. Yes you can try to argue that (D)Pit has a reflector but if Sun Salutation is reflected, we can just crouch and get free 2% back. Header can also be crouched. Our Header will most likely hit you if you hit us with an arrow but Wii Fit will get the favorable trade. The only move we have that's range is somewhat close to (D)Pits is b-air. Some Wii Fits tend to shield a lot and you should take advantage of that with your grab combos. Just do not make a dumb choice like a random f-smash. We can combo you to kill percent from 30%. N-air / N-air / N-air / Header can change the tide of the battle immediately. Wii Fit may have killing problems unless you randomly f-smash on shield, we can get a b-air oos. We can bait you out and get our SHFF N-air / U-smash kill set-up which may kill very early. We could also get a f-tilt too. With Deep Breathing, b-throw and u-throw become a kinda kill throw. Her most reliable kill move is f-tilt which kills at about 130%. I'd have to give (D)Pit the advantage in killing. B-air, u-smash, and f-smash kill at a reasonable percent. F-throw is a good kill throw. Something insane is definitely the Electrodash Arm. One read could kill at 50% which easily good give you the lead. Edgeguarding is most likely better for Wii Fit. We can take huge advantage of your linear recovery with a long-lasting header. We can cover basically all areas. Our f-air also spikes too. D-air could work as well. We can mix-up our recovery by changing the speed, stalling with header and DBAC, and going different directions. We could easily stage-spike if you make the wrong move. Wii Fit likes SV and TAC so I'd ban those. BF could give Wii Fit a problem.

So yeah

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I'd honestly say the match up is basically even between the two.

Wii Fit is outranged by (D)Pit which will make her struggle up close and at mid range due to her low range. Projectiles, Wii Fit wins. Yes you can try to argue that (D)Pit has a reflector but if Sun Salutation is reflected, we can just crouch and get free 2% back. Header can also be crouched. Our Header will most likely hit you if you hit us with an arrow but Wii Fit will get the favorable trade. The only move we have that's range is somewhat close to (D)Pits is b-air. Some Wii Fits tend to shield a lot and you should take advantage of that with your grab combos. Just do not make a dumb choice like a random f-smash. We can combo you to kill percent from 30%. N-air / N-air / N-air / Header can change the tide of the battle immediately. Wii Fit may have killing problems unless you randomly f-smash on shield, we can get a b-air oos. We can bait you out and get our SHFF N-air / U-smash kill set-up which may kill very early. We could also get a f-tilt too. With Deep Breathing, b-throw and u-throw become a kinda kill throw. Her most reliable kill move is f-tilt which kills at about 130%. I'd have to give (D)Pit the advantage in killing. B-air, u-smash, and f-smash kill at a reasonable percent. F-throw is a good kill throw. Something insane is definitely the Electrodash Arm. One read could kill at 50% which easily good give you the lead. Edgeguarding is most likely better for Wii Fit. We can take huge advantage of your linear recovery with a long-lasting header. We can cover basically all areas. Our f-air also spikes too. D-air could work as well. We can mix-up our recovery by changing the speed, stalling with header and DBAC, and going different directions. We could easily stage-spike if you make the wrong move. Wii Fit likes SV and TAC so I'd ban those. BF could give Wii Fit a problem.

So yeah

Thanks for the info man how does Pit's Arrows and DP'S arrows compare in this matchup

 

[Macchiato]

Thanks for the info man how does Pit's Arrows and DP'S arrows compare in this matchup

I guess Pit's would be a bit better because at least you can get damage or try to offstage. Just know, you will get no gimps.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I guess Pit's would be a bit better because at least you can get damage or try to offstage. Just know, you will get no gimps.

Arrow gimping no go Roger

 

[CHOMPY]

Koiba , I'm not sure why, but it won't let me add more than 50 videos of one post on the front page.

For now, I'll just copy and paste the most recent post you just left up to that point.

 

[Koiba]

Koiba , I'm not sure why, but it won't let me add more than 50 videos of one post on the front page.

For now, I'll just copy and paste the most recent post you just left up to that point.

That's why I would like you to put the links to the posts.

ROUND 1




http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...glypuff-and-lucas.414936/page-4#post-20223311


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^^^ Just put all of them in the front page and everyone can easily access all of them~



Guess we can't have more then 50 embeds because it'll slow down SB if there's too much.

Edit: Thankzies Chomps~!

 

[CHOMPY]

Everything is updated on the front page. If you want to click on the matchups, please click on the links that are provided on the front page.

As of now, lets continue discussing Wario, Wii Fit, and Mewtwo please.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Alright I've been doing some research on the Mewtwo and Pit matchup and I'm nearly done I was suppose to discuss with Mewtwo chainz but I can't tell if he's being a jerk or he just forgot I should be done Wednesday as I'm taking Monday and Tuesday to celebrate my birthday

 

[Sensane]

First off, congrats to Abadango for winning Pound, and second, Mewtwo mu notes:

• Arrows clank with Shadow Ball.
• Lylat is a good stage choice because the ledges can screw up teleport and stage tilting can mess up shadow ball.
• Duck hunt is also a good stage because we can out camp Mewtwo, but his fast speed can be pretty problematic.
• Watch out for the Shadow Ball; if you're far enough its low speed is generous enough for orbitars to reflect, but don't use this too often as he can reflect it back.
• D-throw -> d-air -> n-air combo won't connect as well due to his low weight (despite his karge hurtbox).
• Avoid stages with low ceilings as Mewtwo's u-smash and u-throw are most effective on those stages.
• Expect Mewtwo's to disable if you're at high percents.
• Unlike most mus, both Pits are okay in this mu and you don't have to change your playstyle when using different Pits.
• I miss Abadango's Pacman :,(
• Thanks to his speed buff, Mewtwo no longer falters under pressure, and his combo game is also phenomanal, so now he can pressure you back.
• Watch out for f-air and b-air strings as they can both outrange our blades.
• Mewtwo is pretty susceptible to being sharked/attacked underneath platforms.
• Fd is also a decent stage since we have more room to camp (though not as much as duck hunt) and the high ceilings/faraway blast zones can make Mewtwo's kill moves slightly less threatening.
• Mewtwo's jab can combo into a grab, d-tilt, and f-smash.
• D-tilt can combo into any aerial.
• N-air is super dangerous.
• Mewtwo's tail both looks and is bigger than our blades, so his tail attacks can outrange our moves.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

First off, congrats to Abadango for winning Pound, and second, Mewtwo mu notes:

• Arrows clank with Shadow Ball.
• Lylat is a good stage choice because the ledges can screw up teleport and stage tilting can mess up shadow ball.
• Duck hunt is also a good stage because we can out camp Mewtwo, but his fast speed can be pretty problematic.
• Watch out for the Shadow Ball; if you're far enough its low speed is generous enough for orbitars to reflect, but don't use this too often as he can reflect it back.
• D-throw -> d-air -> n-air combo won't connect as well due to his low weight (despite his karge hurtbox).
• Avoid stages with low ceilings as Mewtwo's u-smash and u-throw are most effective on those stages.
• Expect Mewtwo's to disable if you're at high percents.
• Unlike most mus, both Pits are okay in this mu and you don't have to change your playstyle when using different Pits.
• I miss Abadango's Pacman :,(
• Thanks to his speed buff, Mewtwo no longer falters under pressure, and his combo game is also phenomanal, so now he can pressure you back.
• Watch out for f-air and b-air strings as they can both outrange our blades.
• Mewtwo is pretty susceptible to being sharked/attacked underneath platforms.
• Fd is also a decent stage since we have more room to camp (though not as much as duck hunt) and the high ceilings/faraway blast zones can make Mewtwo's kill moves slightly less threatening.
• Mewtwo's jab can combo into a grab, d-tilt, and f-smash.
• D-tilt can combo into any aerial.
• N-air is super dangerous.
• Mewtwo's tail both looks and is bigger than our blades, so his tail attacks can outrange our moves.

Spot on man

 

[Sensane]

Well I faced like 5 mewtwos today, so I had recent experience lol.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Well I faced like 5 mewtwos today, so I had recent experience lol.

Lol its like that but with DK I always do bad against him

 

[Thinktron]

Warios bike should be mostly be used as a projectile or a recovery option in this match-up, Pits grab aerials and arrows and sidearms Launch him off, In the case of Pitoo the side B is incredibly dangerous.

Both can gimp the other very easily as Pits recovery Has no hitbox and Warios bike being easy to counter + corkscrew being extremely easy to punish with Meteor attacks.

Pits range is extremely annoying and hard to counter, but Luckily Pit has an extremely difficult time killing before high rage percents that give wario some shiny new power to use if he can get in.

The waft is Warios only saving grace here, While very insignificant Pit can beat it with the Side arm... happened to me once.

I think pit wins overall, Though its close (+1) the furthest i can push it for wario is even, but the waft just so not enough in my opinion.

Feel free to counter argue, Discussions are important after all!

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Warios bike should be mostly be used as a projectile or a recovery option in this match-up, Pits grab aerials and arrows and sidearms Launch him off, In the case of Pitoo the side B is incredibly dangerous.

Both can gimp the other very easily as Pits recovery Has no hitbox and Warios bike being easy to counter + corkscrew being extremely easy to punish with Meteor attacks.

Pits range is extremely annoying and hard to counter, but Luckily Pit has an extremely difficult time killing before high rage percents that give wario some shiny new power to use if he can get in.

The waft is Warios only saving grace here, While very insignificant Pit can beat it with the Side arm... happened to me once.

I think pit wins overall, Though its close (+1) the furthest i can push it for wario is even, but the waft just so not enough in my opinion.

Feel free to counter argue, Discussions are important after all!

YAY someone came thanks

 

[KiyoXDragon]

Using Nair works wonders when Wario is on his bike.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Alright after a long time of doing research I finally put together all the pieces I need to give info on this matchup I pretty much went everywhere for info so let's began

Alright let's start of with things you keep an eye out for
●Phasing - this is one of Mewtwo's main way of approach and retreat remove this and you've already crippled him
●Shadowball - this is also critical to Mewtwo's game play this helps zone, pressure, force approaches, and kills
●Fair - The infamous Fair man this move man so satisfyingly delicious o my bad getting of track besides shadowball this just might be M2's best move this move can be used spaced, rack up damage, and kill so definitely a problem
●Bair(offstage) - M2's Bair has ridiculous range if your in the blast box your probably going to die
●Confusion & Disable - OK let's get something straight Do not use side B carelessly you get hit with a disable at 80% i don't think even Palutena save U then and Confusion well that's pretty obvious
●Down tilt - Down tilt is a disjoint so it's good for spacing
●Dair - Our recovery is already linear a big foot slamming on you won't help you much will it
Alright now that all thats said let's go over how to fight him I like blue so I'll be using that
Now first of all playing super aggressive is never the answer as we don't have alot of safe moves on block so yeah although playing aggressive is not out of the question first off a Mewtwo wants their shadow ball you should prevent him from getting this at all times as It can hit really hard you should approach with short hop arrows I thank @Xacer for giving me this advice if you hit him mid charge he'll have to charge it all over again this a d*ck move but hey it still super effective(see what I did there) after you get over the Shadow Ball shimmy sham phasing will start to come into play in this faze(see i did it again)Nair will be your best friend spam it often as is shuts this down when comboing down throw > Dair > Nair stop working at 25% and down throw > RaR Bair stop working at 59% and down throw > Uair stops working at about 92(not sure what the exact number is) so keep this in mind M2 has a easier time killing than ous as he has two kill throws Up throw kills at 143% no rage or DI and back throw kills at 126% at ledge no rage or DI (tested on FD) generally when it comes to killing stick to Fthrow, Usmash, and Fsmash M2 might be light but he can kill U just as early as you can kill him he also has strengths that are just as good as ours so be vary with that I'm going bring my guide to a close

I had alot more small notes if you have anything specific to ask me just look to the sky and call my name very softly by the way don't be to harsh on me as I used basically no punctuation i'am just to lazy
Overall I would say this matchup is a 50:50 matchup overall

 

[Koiba]

Alright after a long time of doing research I finally put together all the pieces I need to give info on this matchup I pretty much went everywhere for info so let's began

Alright let's start of with things you keep an eye out for
●Phasing - this is one of Mewtwo's main way of approach and retreat remove this and you've already crippled him
●Shadowball - this is also critical to Mewtwo's game play this helps zone, pressure, force approaches, and kills
●Fair - The infamous Fair man this move man so satisfyingly delicious o my bad getting of track besides shadowball this just might be M2's best move this move can be used spaced, rack up damage, and kill so definitely a problem
●Bair(offstage) - M2's Bair has ridiculous range if your in the blast box your probably going to die
●Confusion & Disable - OK let's get something straight Do not use side B carelessly you get hit with a disable at 80% i don't think even Palutena save U then and Confusion well that's pretty obvious
●Down tilt - Down tilt is a disjoint so it's good for spacing
●Dair - Our recovery is already linear a big foot slamming on you won't help you much will it
Alright now that all thats said let's go over how to fight him I like blue so I'll be using that
Now first of all playing super aggressive is never the answer is never the option as we don't have alot of safe moves on block so yeah although playing aggressive is not out of the question first off a Mewtwo wants their shadow ball you should prevent him from getting this at all times as I can hit really hard you should approach with short hop arrows I thank @Xacer for giving me this advice if you hit him mid charge he'll have to charge it all over again this a d*ck move but hey it still super effective(see what I did there) after you get over the Shadow Ball shimmy sham phasing will start to come into play in this faze(see i did it again)Nair will be your best friend spam it often as is shuts this down when comboing down throw > Dair > Nair stop working at 25% and down throw > RaR Bair stop working at 59% and down throw > Fair stops working at about 92(not sure what the exact number is) so keep this in mind M2 has a easier time killing than ous as he has two kill throws Up throw kills at 143% no rage or DI and back throw kills at 126% at ledge no rage or DI (tested on FD) generally when it comes to killing stick to Fthrow, Usmash, and Fsmash M2 might be light but he can kill U just as early as you can kill him he also has strengths that are just as good as ours so be vary with that I'm going bring my guide to a close

I had alot more small notes if you have anything specific to ask me just look to the sky and call my name very softly by the way don't be to harsh on me as I used basically no punctuation i'am just to lazy
Overall I would say this matchup is a 50:50 matchup overall

Question though: What is phasing?

Other than that; pretty cool

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Question though: What is phasing?

Other than that; pretty cool

Phasing is where a mewtwo uses airdodging to get around mewtwo can act out of his airdodge faster than anyone and it turns him invisible so it's really beneficial

Y2Kay is that about right

 

[Y2Kay]

Question though: What is phasing?

Other than that; pretty cool

video by @KillerJawz the name is by @meleebrawler iirc

 

[Sensane]

Notes on the Wario matchup:

• Side b and dash attack trade with Wario's bike when he uses it in the air.
• If you don't think it's worth a trade, then go for either a dash grab or n-air.
• Bike can eat our arrows.
• Speaking of eating, Wario's bite can stop our arrows, but he won't heal off of it.
• Another thing about bite is if you see it, roll away, wait for the endlag, and punish; rushing in early or using an attack/grab to extend your hurtbox is exactly what he wants you to do.
• Waft kills stupidly early with rage, and he can use bike to extend hitbox.
• He can also extend it with the ducks from Duck Hunt or the balloons from Town an City/Smashville.
• Because of this, I would rather avoid going to DH or T&C.
• Avoid Lylat because Wario can pressure very easily due to the stage's small size.
• Go to FD, Dreamland, or BF since you have more breathing room.
• Use u-tilt for platform pressure if one stages with platforms.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Since we've got input on all three characters does that mean we move on to the next three or does it not work like that :O

 

[Koiba]

Since we've got input on all three characters does that mean we move on to the next three or does it not work like that :O

We'll keep discussing these characters until the due date (which CHOMPY will inform all of us)


This way if there's something new well have timE to talk about it.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

We'll keep discussing these characters until the due date (which CHOMPY will inform all of us)


This way if there's something new well have timE to talk about it.

OK if there really is a patch over the next two days I guess something could happen

 

[CHOMPY]

Xyless and @John12346 do you guys have anything to say about the Wii Fit Trainer and Pit MU?

 

[krazySyko]

Might be worth it to take a look at Earth's recent set against Nasubi's Wario for anything on that matchup. I haven't watched that set yet, but I posted a link to Dabuz's analysis of Sumabato (which has that set) in the social and the shi_gaming twitch has the archives.

 

[Xyless]

I haven't actually ever played against a Pit in bracket. I think I've played against a Dark Pit once, but it was before I really bore down and honed my ability to play Wii Fit Trainer. However, conceptually, I could see Pit vs WFT being even.

-Pits need to remember down B is a thing. Having a reflector on hand against Wii Fit, no matter how slow they are, means Wii Fit has to play a lot more carefully with her projectiles. Upperdash Arm is ok, but it knocks the projectile diagonally where she doesn't have to really sweat.
-Don't be afraid to camp at times. Arrows are annoying. However, don't forget that you'll have to be ready to aim it, as she can crouch underneath arrows.
-When Wii Fit is off stage, try to snipe out her using the header ball to help recovering horizontally. If you can hit the ball before she does, she'll take damage from the ball.
-Be careful with your recovery. Power of Flight is one of the easier recovery moves to header spike if you're obvious with your direction and timing.
-General advice for any character against Wii Fit, but if she buries you with jab, make sure you mix up your mashing methods. If the Wii Fit knows how you're gonna mash every time, the player can punish you insanely hard for it. For example, if you mash extremely hard, then at higher % she can just bury you into running up smash and kill you early. However, if you don't mash at all, then at higher % she can bury you into fast fall nair into up smash.

Thanks for the info man how does Pit's Arrows and DP'S arrows compare in this matchup

Pit's arrows are definitely a bigger threat than Dark Pit's arrows, at least in neutral. Dark Pit's don't angle as well, so they're much easier for Wii Fit to dodge around, since she has the most dramatic change in height from standing to crouching.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I haven't actually ever played against a Pit in bracket. I think I've played against a Dark Pit once, but it was before I really bore down and honed my ability to play Wii Fit Trainer. However, conceptually, I could see Pit vs WFT being even.

-Pits need to remember down B is a thing. Having a reflector on hand against Wii Fit, no matter how slow they are, means Wii Fit has to play a lot more carefully with her projectiles. Upperdash Arm is ok, but it knocks the projectile diagonally where she doesn't have to really sweat.
-Don't be afraid to camp at times. Arrows are annoying. However, don't forget that you'll have to be ready to aim it, as she can crouch underneath arrows.
-When Wii Fit is off stage, try to snipe out her using the header ball to help recovering horizontally. If you can hit the ball before she does, she'll take damage from the ball.
-Be careful with your recovery. Power of Flight is one of the easier recovery moves to header spike if you're obvious with your direction and timing.
-General advice for any character against Wii Fit, but if she buries you with jab, make sure you mix up your mashing methods. If the Wii Fit knows how you're gonna mash every time, the player can punish you insanely hard for it. For example, if you mash extremely hard, then at higher % she can just bury you into running up smash and kill you early. However, if you don't mash at all, then at higher % she can bury you into fast fall nair into up smash.

Pit's arrows are definitely a bigger threat than Dark Pit's arrows, at least in neutral. Dark Pit's don't angle as well, so they're much easier for Wii Fit to dodge around, since she has the most dramatic change in height from standing to crouching.

Lol this came out of nowhere but anyway thanks for the input man really appreciate it but how does her down B come into play should we look out for it

 

[Xyless]

Lol this came out of nowhere but anyway thanks for the input man really appreciate it but how does her down B come into play should we look out for it

There are two main uses for Down B:

1. Increased damage (and thus, knockback) on all of her attacks. For example, she can now do up throw on mid-weights and kill them around 165% if it's unstale. With deep breathing enabled, you want to try to avoid damage from her if possible for the 7 seconds that she has it going, though it's not as terrifying as, say, Aura.
2. Stalling in the air. If she starts a deep breathing in the air, she halts her vertical momentum slightly. If she air dodges before the deep breathing finishes, she can stop her momentum again if she goes for another one. This makes her a little more awkward to chase after in the air, but you can catch her at the end of her air dodge.

The best thing to do is remember how long Deep Breathing lasts, since there's no visual representation of it being enabled. Wii Fit only glows if she has sun charged fully.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

There are two main uses for Down B:

1. Increased damage (and thus, knockback) on all of her attacks. For example, she can now do up throw on mid-weights and kill them around 165% if it's unstale. With deep breathing enabled, you want to try to avoid damage from her if possible for the 7 seconds that she has it going, though it's not as terrifying as, say, Aura.
2. Stalling in the air. If she starts a deep breathing in the air, she halts her vertical momentum slightly. If she air dodges before the deep breathing finishes, she can stop her momentum again if she goes for another one. This makes her a little more awkward to chase after in the air, but you can catch her at the end of her air dodge.

The best thing to do is remember how long Deep Breathing lasts, since there's no visual representation of it being enabled. Wii Fit only glows if she has sun charged fully.

Alright thanks man have a nice day

 

[CHOMPY]

Xyless when we play in bracket, I'll go Pit this time.

What do you guys think of these MU ratios?

60:40
55:45
40:60

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Xyless when we play in bracket, I'll go Pit this time.

What do you guys think of these MU ratios?

60:40
55:45
40:60

Wo Wo Wo the M2 matchup is even where did get that win ratio from