Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[DiamondbodySharpshooter]

I'm having a bit of issues with the CSS...I forgot to mention that like a week ago. How do I fix this? It's the "Cannot select the bottom three rows" issue. I'm using what I think is the latest package, I'm using the selcharacter from the pack injected into a common5, and I've only added PW's Stage Expansion codes (which actually are also not working, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

[Jam Stunna]

I swear when all of the changelists come out all of you guys who said 'x character feels boring' will rethink.

Well we're waiting!

Spoiler

Just joking you guys are doing a great job.

 

[[TSON]]

I'm having a bit of issues with the CSS...I forgot to mention that like a week ago. How do I fix this? It's the "Cannot select the bottom three rows" issue. I'm using what I think is the latest package, I'm using the selcharacter from the pack injected into a common5, and I've only added PW's Stage Expansion codes (which actually are also not working, but that's neither here nor there.)

That means you, for some reason, are missing the CSS Fix code.

 

[DiamondbodySharpshooter]

That means you, for some reason, are missing the CSS Fix code.

That's freaky...SUPER Freaky even!

This is what I have.

CSS Codes

Custom CSS V3 [spunit262]
* 0668310C 00000030
* 387E006C 3B600000
* 3C808068 38840DE0
* 7CBB20AE 7CA50775
* 41800014 94A30004
* 3B7B0001 2C1B0032
* 4180FFE8 48000038
* 04690338 48000068
* 066900d8 00000008
* 2c170028 41820168
* 02680DE0 0022FFFF
* 06680DE0 0000002A
* 00010611 07091A16
* 21130D0C 1F0B2505
* 15171922 201B5D5E
* 5C232402 0E0F1403
* 0429080A 26271218
* 10280000 00000000

CSS Fix [Phantom Wings]
* 046A0C68 C2000000
* 0469DC18 40820030
* 0469DC40 2C030000
* 04689E88 60000000

CSS fixes for Samus/ZSS and Zelda/Shiek V2.1 [spunit262]
* 04693D50 38800004
* 06693D6C 00000008
* 38000000 3880000F
* 046900E8 60000000
* 04697F58 60000000
* 04697EEC 60000000

Regular Zelda Icon (CSS) [spunit262]
* 046900E8 60000000

CSS fixes for Giga and Company V2 [spunit262]
* C2684940 00000002
* 9BB400B8 57BD06BE
* 2C1D001B 00000000
* 040AF8D4 546025B6
* 040AF964 546025B6
* 040AF830 546025B6
* 040AF528 546025B6
* 040AF810 546025B6
* 040AF880 546025B6
* 040AF848 546025B6

Custom Random V1 [spunit262]
* 06685824 0000000C
* 3C608068 7C630214
* 88630E80 00000000
* 046857F0 3AE00028
* 06680E80 00000028
* 00090D0C 0515011A
* 0A071325 1002240E
* 0F140616 1F170304
* 0B190823 201B5D5E
* 5C112118 22122627

 

[[TSON]]

You're NTSC-U, right?

 

[DiamondbodySharpshooter]

Indeed!

And instead of just saying "10indeeds", I also would like to mention that I was a bit sad to find that the timer glitch from Brawl+ isn't in Brawl-. Mostly because it seems that an item that triggers floaty hovering that causes people to fly with their dairs would fit so well in Brawl-.

Actually, I'm surprised that there isn't any focus on items at all.

 

[Yoshara]

I perfer the idea of characters being more broken than items.

P.S. To me B- is more like a combonation of HnK with BB. It combines a very unique cast with "so broken it's balanced" gameplay. It also kinda reminds me of the unlimited characters in BB.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Does that mean we can give Bowser- Magnetic Koopa Klaw?

 

[Yoshara]

One can only hope.

 

[UTDZac]

It's not really removed, just hold L/R right as you die to switch to the next Pokemon. (This should really be put in the OP even if their changelist isn't done yet).

Would it be too much to ask to switch this?

On death, if holding L/R, the current Pokemon will NOT switch out. Otherwise, it switches out normally.

@AA: I too have been playing with PT a lot. He's my favorite brawl- character so far. Also, Razor leaf breaks shields like DK punch or Jigg pound

EDIT: Just read what you said about G&W. Imo, he's a good character with great potential. I've asked my friends, who I play Brawl- with, what they think of the character. They claim he's broken. I didn't understand at first... why would a character so light, that dies in 3 hits be broken? Then they made me realize how hard it is to hit G&W because he's so fast and once he hits you, you're done for, literally. G&W can combo 0-90 (or death) easily against most characters. It's insane.

I think he's fine the way he is. He's super strong but at a cost. If you don't know what you're doing with him, you're gonna get wrecked.

 

[Xyless]

I'll give them another try. I really want to like them, I was an IC main in Melee.

Anything in particular I should look for or try out?

Running charged smashes (with Nana), easy desyncing with utilt, killing with belay, growing instead of shrinking icicles, Nana sliding forward when both of you ftilt, dtilt comboing into attacks (great for SoPo), and Popo actually having an Up B that doesn't suck.

To name a few off the top of my head, anyway.

 

[Izaniki]

ICs also seem to kill reaaaaaally easily (Bair comes to mind) and Fair is super sex now. SoPo seems to be a lot better as well, especially with the UpB as mentioned. I need to try the desynch with utilt, I was just using NeuB and swapping to fsmash inputs, for the buffer to kick in on one and not the other. I thought it was nice, cause it let you already have some icebergs out

I actually can stand playing them!

Olimar, on the other hand, I can't stand at all. He got lots of recovery buffs and whatnot, but I just can't bring myself to play as him (or against him). He feels really weird now for some reason He's quite a good character from what I've seen from CPUs though

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Geez man.

I didnt realize how different the shield stun was in Brawl- til last night when I was playing Melee for an hour then switched to Brawl minus.

LOL, I was trying to jump out of shield harder than I ever thought I could.

Also, do any other characters have momentumless air dodges like Fox?

And can I ask what the point of DDD's fair lifting him up was? Besides maybe comboing off upthrow(or other direction of throw).

It could be that I'm used to being able to fast fall it whenever I want. Maybe It'll turn out to be really sweet.

Finally, I love what you guys did with Luigi(if i didnt already say that).

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Riivolution.

Hurrdurr

So, If I just install Riivolution onto my SDHC card, I can get B- to work on it? Because otherwise I have to buy another SD card.

 

[DevilKiller]

Can someone give me the advantages of playing as Sonic, DK, or Ness? I had a friend play Brawl- with me, and he was pissed off at it. He claimed that the Brawl- team did nothing for those three characters, and he was especially unhappy with the change to Ness' aerials. (Down-Air momentum changed?)
The only thing he liked was the speed-up to Sonic's Neutral B.

In short, how do I shut him up?

P.S: Lol at Pikachu changes. The Bair-copter alone is fantastic enough.

 

[Sinz]

DK and Ness got tons of changes and are great characters. Sonic got gimmicky changes and damage buffs.

 

[Izaniki]

Also, do any other characters have momentumless air dodges like Fox?

Fox has a Hybrid Air Dodge (I think, might be just Melee AD) to play off of his Melee abilities. Atm, no one else has it. It's not really momentum-less; hit a direction when you use it (otherwise, it will hold you still like you saw). Try wavedashing with it (angle into the ground \ ish) (Also: See ROBdashing).



In regards to Sonic, he can jump-cancel dash attack, cancel USmash into B, and has incredible damage building abilties (use Bair and love it.), and his spring spikes a lot harder.

DK has barrel tricks (hold Down+B for barrel). They're supposed to be really good, but I haven't played him much.

Ness has a pretty ****ed good Fair. DownB has a hitbox that knocks up (he has a hard-to-do infinite with it).

Atm, I can't think of anything else with them. Just try attacks you don't usually use. Oh, and Sonic gets really f-ing annoying with taunt cancels if that makes anyone happier

 

[DiamondbodySharpshooter]

So, If I just install Riivolution onto my SDHC card, I can get B- to work on it? Because otherwise I have to buy another SD card.

That is indeed the case. Matter of fact, there's an XML that Hozu made that allows you to shuffle between B+, B-, and vB w/codes.

 

[[TSON]]

(he has a hard-to-do infinite with it).

It's not an infinite; you can only footstool 6? times without landing

 

[Izaniki]

It's not an infinite; you can only footstool 6? times without landing

Definitely did NOT know that Never came up for me. I stand corrected though :D

Also, just throwin this out there... <3 <3 <3 TSON <3 <3 <3

 

[DiamondbodySharpshooter]

So ,uh, how do I fix my CSS?

 

[5ive]

hmmm, some ideas for Olimar.

Make his grabs super long and super fast.

Make his smashes/attacks that use his pikmin go super far. For example, if you use his upsmash, the pikmin will rocket up into the sky.

Change the qualities of each colored pikmin so that they each have a unique broken attribute.

Include a broken color that is rarer to pluck (1/10, let's say). This color OHKOs.

 

[Sinz]

Can we say no to every single one of those suggestions?

 

[Iamthemovie]

When will a text of all the changes be posted? I'm still confused about certain character's movesets and how they're broken (Mario, Olimar, Peach)

 

[[TSON]]

5ive you just wait until my olimar is out

 

[Kix]

Wait, so where are the .pac files? Also does this have the stage replacement code in it? If not I want to add it, how would I do that?

 

[Hozu]

So ,uh, how do I fix my CSS?

Check this post, although the GCT file in that post probably doesn't have those 9 extra stages if you're planning to use them.

 

[F1SHY]

Anything different about Samus other than freezing missles and overall combo ability?

 

[Sinz]

Anything different about Samus other than freezing missles and overall combo ability?

And her being able to kill?

 

[F1SHY]

And her being able to kill?

Yeah, but that seems to be the deal with the entire cast now. I'm just wondering if she got something really flashy or unique.

 

[Rkey]

I'm gonna have such amazing focus of Ness, Lucario, Luigi, Marth , Game and Watch and Captain Falcon once I get this stuff recorded, prepare folks.

Also, Ness and Lucario for God tier. You'll see why ^_^

 

[DtJ Composer]

Anything different about Samus other than freezing missles and overall combo ability?

Homingest missiles in history, tippered zair, bombs explode on impact again, bigger charge shot, epic back air.

Lossa cool stuff.

 

[Izaniki]

Samus's uncharged shots also have stun on them. The idea was to make her have a reason to use uncharged things (missiles, shot) along with the full powered ones. Her homing missiles are incredible, as long as you know how to use them so they dont' just run into the stage

And yes, zair is amazing. Depending on the char/di/etc you could just chain zair your opponent off the stage (not sure how reliable, thus the caveat).

 

[Xyless]

Update on the video: After delaying myself like forever (it's nearly finals time, had to play catchup with one of my classes over this week), I'm still working on this. I am dying for some Pit- clips with the slow arrows and so on, since that is one of the biggest changes in Brawl- that I haven't gotten portrayed in an epic way so far.

So, someone get on that, please?

 

[standardtoaster]

Streaming for as long as I can. It'll probably only be about 30-40 mins, though. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pitminus

 

[Ryose]

I am dying for some Pit- clips with the slow arrows and so on, since that is one of the biggest changes in Brawl- that I haven't gotten portrayed in an epic way so far.

So, someone get on that, please?

This. Pit's arrows are bananas. I've done so much crazy stuff with them but replays always get corrupted and turn into CPU suicide fest 2010. This potential must be exposed

 

[Falcon88]

Just wanted to say that Peach's Flying Crown Smack (Side B canceled into F-Air) is beast.

And I really love the game in general. Got to play the release for the first time today. Awesome job.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Big response coming to AA's/etc posts later. AKA when my internet stops being on the ****ing fritz.

 

[Rkey]

Hope you'll be back soon BPC, I'm missing you <3

 

[[TSON]]

Here, I'll fill in for BPC.

*Big post incoming*

I played some of this with some of the other KC players and maybe took is slightly seriously. Take the feedback in that regard.

Nothing wrong with that!

As a whole game, it's pretty fun. Most of the characters seem broken enough to compete, a few exceptions I'll bring up. If we were going to take this game seriously as a tournament game (shocking I know), I think the main problem it would have would not be any one character dominating but rather that there exist a wide number of hard counter matchups. I don't know how much those bother this development team, but I think in the long run most people would either use several characters with Zelda & Sheik, Pokemon Trainer, and Samus having the benefit of option select character picking.

This build is only balanced to an extent. With things being added at all times, rarely did we go back to balance things already established unless the character was severely underpowered. Think of it as a ballpark estimate.

Bowser is the most polarizing character by far. Low damage "combo" characters have almost no hope of beating him. Some characters have a few good options to pierce his armor and have evenish matchups. The other heavy hitters just wreck him, and he has no hope of winning. In specific, I saw that Bowser beats Lucario at least 80:20, goes close to even with Pikachu probably slightly Bowser's favor, and loses to Ganondorf at least 10:90 maybe even worse with severely uphill matchups against Ike and Captain Falcon as well but better against them than against Ganondorf. Bowser is beyond unviable as a main, but he makes a ridiculous secondary. I'm not sure if Bowser is fixable given his current design, but I think at a tournament level Bowser would be the single biggest problem for the metagame. I don't think he even would earn a tier placing because of this status...

I wouldn't call him unviable but I'd say you've have to seriously know what you're doing to get through a DK. You'll have to work harder with the heavyhitters to make up for the easiness of the weaker ones.

Olimar is super bad and as far as I could tell easily the worst character in the game; you guys really just need to rethink him. Olimar feels nerfed from standard Brawl which given the power level of the game is a really, really bad sign for him. The small thing is a nice thought in a way, but it really does hurt him more than it helps him so if you want to run with it you should tweak his physical attributes a lot to compensate. He also needs something better than a buffed Pikmin Pluck which is honestly barely useful.

Olimar has been buffed so much more in the backroom build. It needs a bit more testing, but, it's looking good.

I spent most of my time using Pokemon Trainer for his flexibility in working around hard counter matchups, and I mostly liked what I saw (if I play more Brawl-, it will be as a PT main). You guys mostly did a really good job on Squirtle, but a small tweak that could be fun would be increasing the speed boost he gets from turning around (one of the earlier listed physical attributes governs this) to make his pivot gimmicks even better.

Sure, will do that right now.

Ivysaur feels like he needs a little help, but he's close to right with a mostly good feeling and the hilariously awesome bair. I really don't like the feel of his recovery very much, and I'd kinda like dsmash to have a little more bkb to be more reliable at the game's power level. Dunno if you guys did anything to Razor Leaf and Bullet Seed, but both were getting some good mileage for me even if they were kinda tricky; small buffs to either move are another possible way to make Ivysaur just make that small leap he needs to be just right.

Your two 'dunno's are going to be more of a 'woah wtf' next build

Can't tell you much but let's just say 'critical hit' and 'Ivysaur used Fly!'.

Charizard, however, feels really underpowered. I didn't explore him much because honestly he seemed pretty bad, but I think he needs some attention and love for your next release (buffed Rock Smash! You know you want to!).

..... This is pretty awesome. Everything I just buffed, you've asked about XD. Next build, rock smash is also stealth rock. It will prove to be extremely annoying to all foes and increase charizard's combo potential so much more.

I also really, really dislike the removal of auto-switch. If I'm actually playing as the trainer, isn't that a sign I actually want to use Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard? I was actually switching at the start of stocks even unsafely just because not switching as PT was really annoying me and was making it hard for me to use the character the way the character is fun for me (which involves a constant mix-up of playstyle by shifting character).

You can still downB switch, can't you? And hold R on death if you want to switch.

I also don't know if you guys included all the costume files for PT on the SD card (I was a little... overwhelmed by other factors to notice my switch time), but if you didn't, you really should and also make sure the animations involved with switching go nice and fast. I am mostly saying this to make sure it's known that not everyone subscribes to the insanity of solo Pokemon, and some of us really like PT himself!

Alrighty~

Ganondorf, Ike, Zelda & Sheik, and Ice Climbers are just all around really good, probably top tier. Even among the game's generally broken characters, these guys really stand out. Zelda & Sheik is my pick for the best character in the game, probably with a heavier focus on Zelda but Sheik has some silly stuff too so you can't rule her out as an important character half. All around, all these characters are also fun to use and fun to fight against so I'm not saying this as a suggestion to nerf them so much as just trying to identify them as top tiers.

So they're reasonably high? As long as they aren't so high where they aren't able to be contested against.

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Captain Falcon are safely high tier but probably not top. Most of the rest of the cast is hard to place so if I don't mention them later, it doesn't mean I didn't use them it just means I'm not sure of how good they are yet.

These bunch are my pick for top tier personally.. Lots of your picks have simple ways to get around.. Zelda hates airdodges, Ganon hates projectiles and weak multihitters like g&w, etc.

Jigglypuff has an embarrasingly good WOP, fantastic speed, INTERRUPT OUT OF ROLLOUT TURN AND ROLLOUT HIT, pound starts combos, DACUS goes really far, and shieldbreak is a OHKO. I really don't see anyone touching her top spot.

Pikachu's combos out of bair are stupid. Thunder jolt is reeeeally annoying. It's... I don't know. Pikachu scares me.

Falcon is just pro.

Snake and R.O.B. are single change gimmicks that are probably very powerful and would be big factors in the metagame. It's hard to say how they'd play out, but I don't like how they work out relative to the formerly listed top tiers (who are top tier because they have a ton of broken stuff, as opposed to one thing that's really, really broken and then the rest of them is only kinda of broken).

No way. It might look like a single change from first glance but it definitely isn't. ROB has had millions of angle changes, sideb interrupt, no 0-laser (always at least a little charged), multifire laser, different dair movement, super strong bair, airdodge out of upB, crawling, nair is stupidly strong, throw shenanegans, and lots more. Snake has the whole hitlag thing, grenades send horizontally, brawl+ ftilt, all throws send the foe down, autoending sideB, faster-autoexplode on downB, stronger upB, tripping dtilt, up smash sends out 3 projectiles, fsmash shoots up to three times and can be charged each time, tilted fsmash is a rolling series of explosions, there's a LOT on him.

Ness and Mr. Game & Watch feel underdone and underpowered. I've already chatted with Linkshot a bit about G&W, feel more strongly about that having used him more. Ness is just... underwhelming in every way. He's not awful, but his power level and flashiness are just way below the standards of this project. He needs serious attention for your next release, but I have no suggestions.

@_@ wat.

Ness has falco's shine with FOOTSTOOL INTERRUPT, brawl+ 5.0 fair, JC pk fire, autoexploding PK Flash on ground contact (for countering), canon pk flash (stun, dizzy, ohko, and many other variations of hitboxes), lower angle on bthrow, looots of stuff.

Game and Watch and Ness are anything but underpowered. Underdone, I don't agree with either. I dunno. Maybe you need to mess with them more.

That's all I have; I hope it's helpful. God job on making a fun game with a lot of identity. I hope you guys decide to take the effort to actually tweak for balance while not lowering the game's power level and give some attention to a few characters who IMO kinda fell through the cracks; I wouldn't mind seeing a honed version of this as a routine side-event at tournaments.

:O. If you ever have any more suggestions, please let us know so we can fix whatever's wrong.