Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Olimarman]

Mk has advantages on all characters. lol...

 

[Yonder]

MK has all advantages. ALL ADVANTAGES. Ban him. Now.

 

[DanGR]

I've got a couple changes for Olimar. I know you don't like no explanations, so I'll include a brief summary. I'm posting the matchups that are generally excepted to be true. These aren't necesarily my opinions. (I think Olimar>Ness for example, but others don't think so)

Olimar>>Bowser
Olimar just combos him too much. One grab, which is very easy to get, leads easily to 50%. There isn't much of anything for the big guy to do about it. Olimar outranges all of Bowser's approaches, (something he's not used to), he's a very big target for pikmin throws and fsmashes, and he's too slow to get past Olimar's entire defense in general.

Olimar>>Link
Olimar outcamps Link easily, outkills, outracks, outspeeds, and outranges him. Link is a defensive character, and when he's forced to approach quickly it doesn't end well.

Olimar>>Samus
It's pretty much the same thing as Link, except Samus has a better recovery and a little more range, but even less speed than Link, worser ground options, and a has a harder time dealing with the pikmin. It's around 80-20 Olimar- Samus's worst matchup.

Olimar v DK- at least change it to neutral. There's no way he has the advantage.
It's being currently discussed in the Olimar matchup thread. We think it's advantage Olimar mainly because we have an easy time racking because he's a big target with bad options for getting back to the ground, and pivotgrabs outrange all of DK's approaching options. I'll get back to this thread after the discussion is over.

Olimar<<Peach
Umm yeah. I've never heard of anyone say otherwise. Peach is a floating brick wall against Olimar.

 

[Yummy!]

Yay meta o.0

 

[Crackle]

Wow Meta is a big upset.

Seriously, even if we find a single counter it's not worth keeping the character given it's abilities.

I mean seriously, a physical-fight-only character that can outcamp any other character by holding onto an edge or gliding beneath a stage? That's ridiculous, it's not even a Brawl character if you ask me.

 

[Praxis]

Wow, Peach's matchups are sooo off :/

Peach is a HARD Olimar counter, one of the most one sided matchups in the game. I don't believe Sonic is even...Peach definitely has the advantage over Sheik...

ROB should not be disadvantaged- it's 60:40, Peach's favor. Peach has the advantage if not countering him.

Peach has the advantage vs Pit too, though it's more 55:45 Peach's favor. Certainly not disadvantaged to Peach.

I'm not sure about Luigi being a disadvantaged matchup. Lucas is in Peach's favor. Dedede is slight advantage to peach (55:45) though I dunno if that one is worth listing because it's really close.

Falco has the advantage over, a strong advantage, tied with G&W for worst matchup.

Peach has the advantage over Donkey Kong.

Diddy Kong is neutral at worst. Peach's float avoids bananas.

 

[Uliah]

Thanks for the chart Ivan, it makes stuff simpler

 

[gantrain05]

Wow, Peach's matchups are sooo off :/

Peach is a HARD Olimar counter, one of the most one sided matchups in the game. I don't believe Sonic is even...Peach definitely has the advantage over Sheik...

ROB should not be disadvantaged- it's 60:40, Peach's favor. Peach has the advantage if not countering him.

Peach has the advantage vs Pit too, though it's more 55:45 Peach's favor. Certainly not disadvantaged to Peach.

I'm not sure about Luigi being a disadvantaged matchup. Lucas is in Peach's favor. Dedede is slight advantage to peach (55:45) though I dunno if that one is worth listing because it's really close.

Falco has the advantage over, a strong advantage, tied with G&W for worst matchup.

Peach has the advantage over Donkey Kong.

Diddy Kong is neutral at worst. Peach's float avoids bananas.

i agree with all of this, except maybe falco, is he really considered one of her hardest matchups? i never really have too many problems with falco, maybe its their playstyle but i don't know.

 

[Yonder]

Why does Luigihave a disadvantage against Link? Link seems pretty easy to fight.

 

[Ryusuta]

Meta still goes about neutral with Yoshi. Both character boards seem to agree to this.

 

[Mmac]

I just find the irony that this Chart was made to help people, but all it does is just misguide people who believe this is the primary source.

I also just love how the one change you made for Yoshi, made it even more inaccurate! Link is not Neutral and never will be. I swear all you are doing is just going with the Tier List, and take no consideration to the characters you change at all.

 

[Flayl]

Link is below Yoshi on the tier list though

 

[SMBEffect]

My bad. ^.^

Don't be rude. You need to be more clear.

 

[Flayl]

Did you just ignore the post above you? The Tier list isn't 100% accurate. It's the FIRST tier list for Brawl. Look back at the Melee tier lists and see how they've changed.

You're dumb. I was responding to "I swear all you are doing is just going with the Tier List", as that was Mmac assumption regarding the Link = Yoshi change.

 

[TK Wolf]

Lucario is still listed as even with DDD, instead of disadvantaged. ^^;

Also, while I haven't felt this myself, many Lucario pros say they feel Luc is on even ground with MK.

On a related note, thanks for managing all of this! :3

 

[pastaboy]

it says diddy does good against sonic but it also says sonic does good against diddy. :s

 

[Olimarman]

Olimar vs Weegee is definately not in Olimar's favor. Hes probably Olimar's 2nd hardest matchup (peach being first).

 

[pastaboy]

Olimar vs Weegee is definately not in Olimar's favor. Hes probably Olimar's 2nd hardest matchup (peach being first).

explain, i always thot luigi had it hard against oli becuz of lack of aproach

 

[darkspatan117]

zss even with Marth?

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I'll speak on behalf of the Pit mains. Pit has the advantage over Donkey Kong, Dedede, and Snake.

 

[Blackbelt]

Link is below Yoshi on the tier list though

Tier position doesn't have anything to do with individual matchups.

 

[Praxis]

i agree with all of this, except maybe falco, is he really considered one of her hardest matchups? i never really have too many problems with falco, maybe its their playstyle but i don't know.

According to Edrees, at a very high level of play Falco, WHEN FALCO KNOWS THE MATCHUP and plays in a certain way, he becomes her worst matchup. At a low level it's not a problem.

Edrees is possibly the highest level Peach player, so I'll take his word for it. And I've experienced what he's talking about.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

um does anyone pay any mind to ness's matchups? cuz id say at least half of them are wrong. ness destroys ddd and it is listed here as ddd's advantage. i know no one cares about ness but come on, if your gonna do this do it right

 

[Flayl]

Tier position doesn't have anything to do with individual matchups.

Ugh. Don't make me start using the '08 stereotype. Go and read Mmac's post.

 

[Ryusuta]

Ugh. Don't make me start using the '08 stereotype. Go and read Mmac's post.

Wait, what? I think you're misreading what he's saying. He's saying that tier positioning doesn't have an effect on individual match-ups, although tier positions might be influenced by them. I think he just wrote it backwards.

 

[Brinzy]

I'm sorry, did people forget how this works?

You don't just post, "Blah blah la-de-dah OH NO NO NO THAT'S WRONG, THIS IS HOW IT IS" and just leave it as that.

Post proof of this. Post a discussion that came to a conclusion, post videos, post SOMETHING.

 

[gantrain05]

I'm sorry, did people forget how this works?

You don't just post, "Blah blah la-de-dah OH NO NO NO THAT'S WRONG, THIS IS HOW IT IS" and just leave it as that.

Post proof of this. Post a discussion that came to a conclusion, post videos, post SOMETHING.

agreed

....10chars

 

[Mocha19]

I think Zelda deserves a few more neutral matches for characters like Wolf, ROB, Diddy, Peach, and Kirby. Other than that, I think it's about right for her.

 

[Face124]

I think Zelda deserves a few more neutral matches for characters like Wolf, ROB, Diddy, Peach, and Kirby. Other than that, I think it's about right for her.

I'm very surprised at zelda's tier placement compared to her matchups

 

[Mocha19]

I'm very surprised at zelda's tier placement compared to her matchups

Yeah.. I don't get it myself either. She's pretty hard to play with though. And there isn't a lot of good representation of her either, so I can kinda see it. You gotta look at the other characters too I guess. Things change.

 

[Mocha19]

Plus a lot of people are doing the Zelda/Sheik combination as well. That might have something to do with it too.

 

[Mmac]

I've been posting nothing but proof. The fast that he changed Link to neutral when I clearly stated that he is one of our harder matchups just clearly shows that he just goes along lazily with the tier list, and doesn't give two ****s about the low tiered characters in general.

 

[Gishnak]

So apparently some people think that the Wario Dededed matchup is even.
*chortle*

 

[ROOOOY!]

I disagree with your change on the Sonic v Diddy match-up. It should still be neutral.
That, and I disagree with a LOT of Sonic's match-ups lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ugh. Don't make me start using the '08 stereotype. Go and read Mmac's post.

Re-read what he posted NOW.

 

[SMBEffect]

Tier position doesn't have anything to do with individual matchups.

Exactly why quotes are a blessing.

 

[Praxis]

I'm sorry, did people forget how this works?

You don't just post, "Blah blah la-de-dah OH NO NO NO THAT'S WRONG, THIS IS HOW IT IS" and just leave it as that.

Post proof of this. Post a discussion that came to a conclusion, post videos, post SOMETHING.

OK.

Peach is a HARD Olimar counter, one of the most one sided matchups in the game.

Check both the Peach and Olimar boards discussions on the topic.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193&page=52

I believe both agreed on 70-30.

.Peach definitely has the advantage over Sheik...

No discussions have occurred yet on this, but Gimpyfish told me so, and I proceeded to beat him in MM, so I believe it. Granted, personal experience doesn't count for much, but Gimpyfish is a knowledgeable source.

ROB should not be disadvantaged- it's 60:40, Peach's favor.

This is granted a more modern consensus, but I can bring several ROBs in here to agree. The old ROB matchup thread is outdated IMO.

Peach has the advantage vs Pit too, though it's more 55:45 Peach's favor. Certainly not disadvantaged to Peach.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193&page=55

Nearly unanimously 55:45 on the Peach boards.

Falco has the advantage over, a strong advantage, tied with G&W for worst matchup.

Ask any of the high end Peaches, 'specially Edrees. The Peach boards put it at 50:50, but all the high level Peaches disagree with this.

Diddy Kong is neutral at worst. Peach's float avoids bananas.

55:45, according to Peach boards.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193

 

[Metro Knight]

Link's section needs to be changed. I am not saying Link needs more positive match-ups, but a lot of those match-ups are really outdated. Like DK being one of Link's hardest matchups, is kind of a joke. Meh!

 

[rehab]

I don't see a DK match discussion in the Link boards, so I'll assume that's your opinion.

Seems like the range + speed on DK's bair, tilts and fsmash (range mostly) would wreck Link. Why do you say that's a joke?

 

[Justblaze647]

I don't see a DK match discussion in the Link boards, so I'll assume that's your opinion.

Seems like the range + speed on DK's bair, tilts and fsmash (range mostly) would wreck Link. Why do you say that's a joke?

maybe his projectile game..?