Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
that would be ness or lucasHello,
What is an earthbounder?
Take care,
AmishTycoon
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that would be ness or lucasHello,
What is an earthbounder?
Take care,
AmishTycoon
Fast, yes. Effective, yes. I wouldn't say hard to predict though. He slowly tosses a banana behind him, and picks it up, I 'm gonna know what he'll do next.
Kasai pretty much covered it because you're so hung up on thinking im wrong because of a little thing. Fact is, that didn't invalidate my point. I'm not going to argue the ROB matchup, so drop it.YOU insisted, even after being told that you were wrong that Din's fire would not explode if you interrupted Zelda.
DanGR isisted that ganondorf not only beat zelda... but he beat her becuase he could outcamp her...
<_<
seriously... you guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about... and, you also provided NO reason why the earthbounders should have an advantage... not only this, but you don't play as Zelda OR an earthbounder... you really have no knowledge of this matchup at all, you just argue for the sake of arguing... so just shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.
But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?Kirby can do grab combos on all three of them, up to 51%.
True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.Kirby outprioritizes Falco and Fox, at least, in the air.
Wolf shine breaks it.Kirby's hammer has more reach than just about anything of theirs, except Falco's down b
Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.Kirby can duck under Fox and Falco's lasers, or steal them for the occasional annoying blast.
Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happenHis laser lock works better than Falco's.
But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf)Kirby is nigh impossible to spike because of his maneuverability in the air.
Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.If they have to use their upB at any time, they lose, because of dair.
And everything else but the timing is very difficuylt to pull off considering how fast their phantasm's are, anyone can knock thme out of it and I have on more than one occasion Fsmashed them ith Ike.Their side-b's can be outprioritized by a nicely timed upsmash.
Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.As fast-fallers, the spacies are easy for Kirby to do a stage assisted kill, especially because Falco's and Fox's up-b's take a long time to perform.
That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.In the Kirby matchup thread, Kirby beats Falco and Wolf 60-40, and beats Fox at least 70-30
Umm, it's a grab. It's not that hard to duck under lasers and then shield grab when the spacies are forced to approach. Vulnerable for dair? I'm pretty sure it's impossible to stop shooting lasers and run across the stage and get a dair in before kirby...you know....gets up?But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.
To a point. Kirby has a lot of options to get people into the air.True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.
I explained above, you won't be able to get across the whole stage and attack in the time it takes kirby to stand up. You can't camp kirby therefore you can't force an approach, which will set up perfectly for his grab combos with a simple shield grab.Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Wolf would do so with his shine or Nair.
Ducking dooesn't help with the lasers, just ask Snake.
Unless they are below the stage, a place that isn't hard to get them.Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.
Its not often that they are forced to ^B.
It's not that hard to get them below the stage and since they have such startup lag on their upBs, a kirby could easily swallow, shoot them under the stage and then stagespike them. Remember, they will be forced to approach due to ducking.Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.
Personally I think it's probably even with Falco, either even or Kirby's with wolf and definitely kirby's with fox.That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.
I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco.
Even moreso Falco.
I'm sorry but I hate when people say "Just avoid getting grabbed if it's a problem." All it takes is one stupid offensive mistake to get grabbed, we're humans we can't play perfectly.But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.
If this is really the case, then why should Kirby ever hit the ground? Of course Kirby has to hit the ground eventually, but it takes less than two seconds to get back up in the air. If Wolf, for example, wants to camp so much with lasers, then Kirby can simply camp with back airs.True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.
This goes back to making a stupid offensive mistake. Fox and Falco cannot harass with down airs, if either down air gets blocked, Kirby can simply shield grab and boom, 50% damage. If Fox or Falco lands behind Kirby with the down air, Kirby simply up tilt. I'm not sure how crouching leads to down airs.... You make it sound like Kirby has lag from crouching.Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Yeah I agree on the laser lock. On the topic of Kirby's copy ability, lemme just say when Kirby short hops, he's lower to the ground compared to Falco. Kirby's short hop lasers are a lot more effective than Falco's.Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happen
No... just no. The only person who can kill Kirby early with an up smash is Fox. It can kill Kirby at about 90%. Falco's up smash kills at about 115% 120%, and you already stated Wolf's up smash isn't that great.But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf) his light weight means earlier KO's.
I'm not sure why you said "Even more so Falco." You can probably ask any Kirby main and they'll say Wolf is harder than Falco. Kirby is pressured to play in the air more against Wolf compared to Falco. At least Kirby can play some type of ground game against Falco, especially the fact that Falco's ability is so good. Also, as long as you are not predictable with your lasers, they won't always get deflected.That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides. I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco. Even moreso Falco.
If you land a grab, then you have a grab combo. Kirby's grab is quick. What's hard about grabbing?But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.
Kirby can get people into the air and pressure them.True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.
I meant aerial hammer. It is not easy to block, it has two swings, and Kirby has some degree of maneuverability while using it in the air. Kirby players have little trouble landing this move.Wolf shine breaks it.
Wolf's laser breaks it.
Even then the hammer has a but of windup time and can be blocked easily.
I would prefer ^B but even that has issues
No, because standing up after ducking takes less time than it does for Falco or Fox to put away their blaster.And if they are close enough to use dairs, then why would they be spamming their laser? I was talking about how Kirby isn't forced to approach them.Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Wolf would do so with his shine or Nair.
Ducking dooesn't help with the lasers, just ask Snake.
He fires closer to the ground, but yeah, it doesn't usually happen. Point taken.Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happen
True. However, I find that although they are quick, if Kirby was in close enough for them to do an Usmash, he would probably hit them first with a standard combo or tilt.But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf)
his light weight means earlier KO's.
True, but a Kirby player could hit a Falco or Fox out of their sideB without much trouble.Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.
Its not often that they are forced to ^B.
I play Falco's a lot and I can often gimp their side B recovery. It is predictable, because there are certain heights where they are going to use them.And everything else but the timing is very difficuylt to pull off considering how fast their phantasm's are, anyone can knock thme out of it and I have on more than one occasion Fsmashed them ith Ike.
Doesn't mean its going to be happening often.
...As in, Kirby can suck them up and spit them out low down, under the stage. By the time their upB is done with its startup lag, Kirby could spike them with ease. They would be forced to use their upB because they would be low down.Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.
Fox rates Kirby's matchup 3/5 difficulty, more than half. However, they also say he can be easily edguarded, he has no approach, and that he is the one who is forced to approach. None of those are true.That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.
I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco.
Even moreso Falco.
I think that they fall so fast, it is hard for them to do aerials that stay out of grab range if they are blocked, and also many of their moves make them move forward, making them harder to space.The one thing I'd like to say.
Avoiding grabs is actually pretty easy. Spacing yourself out of grab range is not dificult.
But of course, I'm talking generally, and it may be different with the space animals (though I don't know why it would be).
Not gonna comment on the matchup, because I don't really know much about any of those characters, but I don't see why avoiding grabs would be so difficult.
From what I've played....it's definately a matchup in Meta's favor. A big one however, is yet to be determined.What do people think about Yoshi vs. Meta Knight?
Wario > Jiggs. Wario is stronger, heavier, does more damage, and pressures and tech chases better. He doesn't have that large advantage IMO because Jiggs is a pretty decent air combat character as well, she doesn't have to worry about edgeguarding for the most part, and because she has the dair to rest (not sure how much it really affects the matchup.)Jigglypuff > Wario.
what do you guys think about these matchups? Did I just happen to counter Pyro's playstyle? or is the matchup chart wrong? or... a little of both?
Kirby's grab range=smallIf you land a grab, then you have a grab combo. Kirby's grab is quick. What's hard about grabbing?
Spacies have no problem getting into the air and stopping aircampin. More Falco, Fox than wolfKirby can get people into the air and pressure them.
Fine aerial hammer then.I meant aerial hammer. It is not easy to block, it has two swings, and Kirby has some degree of maneuverability while using it in the air. Kirby players have little trouble landing this move.
At which point the laser smacks you in the face.No, because standing up after ducking takes less time than it does for Falco or Fox to put away their blaster.
Pressure and Kirby is FORCED to approach them not the other way around.And if they are close enough to use dairs, then why would they be spamming their laser? I was talking about how Kirby isn't forced to approach them.
At which point if he is that close he would get grabbed.True. However, I find that although they are quick, if Kirby was in close enough for them to do an Usmash, he would probably hit them first with a standard combo or tilt.
Not really, not unless the person was really predictable in their movement.True, but a Kirby player could hit a Falco or Fox out of their sideB without much trouble.
Ledge height, slight above stage height. If you are predicting them its because they are either too far and therefore easier to gimp, or they are being predictable.I play Falco's a lot and I can often gimp their side B recovery. It is predictable, because there are certain heights where they are going to use them.
He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?...As in, Kirby can suck them up and spit them out low down, under the stage.
Except they use Side B which makes the whole point of spitting them below void.By the time their upB is done with its startup lag, Kirby could spike them with ease. They would be forced to use their upB because they would be low down.
He has no approach?Fox rates Kirby's matchup 3/5 difficulty, more than half. However, they also say he can be easily edguarded, he has no approach, and that he is the one who is forced to approach. None of those are true.
So whom do you get this from? Kirby's place or Fox's?Falco doen't have an updated matchup thread with Kirby.
i'm inclined to believe that that may be the case. also, two of the stages were banned stages where Jiggs won, Skyworld (arguably Jiggly's best stage) and Spear pillar, where jiggly majorly teched... lots.Wario > Jiggs. Wario is stronger, heavier, does more damage, and pressures and tech chases better. He doesn't have that large advantage IMO because Jiggs is a pretty decent air combat character as well, she doesn't have to worry about edgeguarding for the most part, and because she has the dair to rest (not sure how much it really affects the matchup.)
I think you just countered his play style, at least for the Wario vs Jiggs fight. Wario kills Jiggs way before she gets a kill, so even if they were just trading hits for the entire match, Wario would probably win because he would survive longer.
I thought about it and I'm pretty sure Kirby has no problems getting a grab. People don't avoid his grabs like they do the IC's.Kirby's grab range=small
Difficult yin grabbing the spacies=high
Think a moment
He actually only does it to characters that can't recover from underneath. It won't happen that many times a match, but he can often inhale characters. Inhale is just one big mindgame, so I guess it depends on the player for how often it will work.He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?
I'm hesitant to let him have an advantage to Fox but I'm sure he beats Wolf. Falco is neutral, you Kirby mains are getting a bit big-headed. As a Kirby user I know there's no way he beats everyone you say he beats.I can see Fox having a disadvantage but not Wolf and Falco.
I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.Avoiding grabs is actually pretty easy.
I didn't have to worry much about getting a KO... I just didn't bother looking for one... figured the chance would present itself eventually. I got KOs from throws, from ness's aerials AND, the most glorious can from him air dodging my PKT so I looped it back into myself and hit him with my PKT body-torpedo as he came out of the airdodge.Mmm, I'm not too sure about Ness > DK. The main problem I have against DK is getting inside for a killing move. I can damage him just fine, but anyone who is aware of Ness's b-throw is gonna do their best to avoid it, and while being a large target HELPS Ness rack up damage, it might not necessarily help when it comes to getting the killing blow. DK also out-ranges, out-powers, and out-weighs Ness...
I would want it to be Ness > DK, but really, it's just Ness being better in the air and DK being better on the ground. I would say the match is even.
Also...
I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.
There are so many ways you can set up a grab. People need to quit thinking that grabbing is oh-so-easy to avoid, when the majority of grabs are done when you are vulnerable to grabs, i.e. most of your non-aerial attacks. I don't care who you use - anyone can be grabbed with relative ease, and anyone can grab during a match. It's not easy to dodge grabs - it's easy to dodge players with poor grabbing technique. People who think that grabs are easy to evade in general are delusional.
Umm...ever heard of spacing. Marth's d-tilt, Sonic's ASC, Metaknight's d-tilt, Ike's jab (if he immediately cancels it), ect. Most characters have at least one aerial or ground attack that cannot be shield grabbed when properly spaced.Also...
I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.
There are so many ways you can set up a grab. People need to quit thinking that grabbing is oh-so-easy to avoid, when the majority of grabs are done when you are vulnerable to grabs, i.e. most of your non-aerial attacks. I don't care who you use - anyone can be grabbed with relative ease, and anyone can grab during a match. It's not easy to dodge grabs - it's easy to dodge players with poor grabbing technique. People who think that grabs are easy to evade in general are delusional.
EVERYONE has a disadvantage vs snakeI don't understand why Ganondorf has a large disadvantage against Snake ? COuld someone explain this to me ?
Explain yourself. What makes the spacies hard to grab? Kirby has good traction, and can shield grab effectively.Kirby's grab range=small
Difficult yin grabbing the spacies=high
Think a moment
Not against Kirby, who can juggle them with uair, hit them across the level with bair or fair, or stop approaches underneath with dair, mixing nair in. All of his moves are fairly quick and powerful, and his maneuverability makes him hard to spike down onto the stage.Spacies have no problem getting into the air and stopping aircampin. More Falco, Fox than wolf
Fthrow links up to aerial hammer very nicely. So do many of his aerials, if done correctly. Stop making untrue statements to support your case.Fine aerial hammer then.
Even so its not too hard to a void considering it does not link up from any move before hand. Its difficult to land if the spaces are constantly maintaining their distance.
Especially Wolf and Falco.
Look, we duck UNTIL they stop lasering, and then we can stand up faster than they can put their blaster away. Why is so hard for you to understand that they are more limited, not Kirby?At which point the laser smacks you in the face.
because KIRBY CAN DUCK UNDER THEIR BLASTERS. They will have to move closer until they can hit Kirby with one of their close up moves, so they will have to approach.Pressure and Kirby is FORCED to approach them not the other way around.
Why would Fox, Falco and wolf go towards Kirby when they have better range with their blasters?
Nope, once again you show your lack of Kirby knowledge. Most of his attacks go farther than they look; Kirby's ftilt and neutral combo can't be shieldgrabbed if spaced correctly.At which point if he is that close he would get grabbed.
Because their recovery isn't very good, they are predictable.Not really, not unless the person was really predictable in their movement.
That's two heights they can recover. How many does Kirby have?Ledge height, slight above stage height. If you are predicting them its because they are either too far and therefore easier to gimp, or they are being predictable.
...most of his grab combos lead into inhale. If anyone tries to edgeguard him, or even stands near the edge, they are potential victims. It is not very hard for him to inhale people.He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?
Especially when those characters have projectiles.
What is so hard about understanding this? They can't use their sideB when Kirby has spit them under the stage! They would have to use their upB to try to get back, and Kirby could easily gimp them.Except they use Side B which makes the whole point of spitting them below void.
As I said in the post, the Fox matchup thread, in justifying its rating of Kirby, says those things about Kirby.He has no approach?
From who do you hear this?
Why would he have to approach?
I cans ee Fox having a disadvantage but not Wolf and Falco.
I already had agreed to this earlier as well
So whom do you get this from? Kirby's place or Fox's?