Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Dark Sonic]

Marth is amazing, no doubt about that. However, as I'm sure most Marth players would agree (and many posts in the Marth threads strongly support this) he is at a disadvantage against projectile spammers. Lucas' PK Fire can be a difficult thing for Marth to get past and PK Thunder will always hit a Marth unless blocked. Brawl was made in such a way that camping is very much possible. Marth rocks, yes, but he has to go through hell against a Lucas (well, not hell, but he's still has to work harder than against many others).

yet n still an experience marth would win over an experience lucas

if they were equally

and..........im not sayn that cuz he "rocks"

I have to disagree, because Marth suprizingly doesn't have that much trouble against campers. His sword cancels out most projectiles, so he can fair his way through while approaching (this can be done on reaction since the fair is so fast) I think that projectiles are mostly what makes some of his matchups even. Sure he has to work harder than against most other characters, but he also has the advantage against most other characters. I think Emblem Lord made a very accurate matchup chart for Marth. If you'd like to go deeper into this, I'm sure Emblem Lord would be happy to explain his reasoning and hear your thoughts.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160991
Maybe you should use this information to update your the chart. You may notice that Marth has a lot of advantageos matchups in that chart, but also note that against the characters who are generally considered "good" he's got mostly even matchups or matchups that are only slightly in his favor.

 

[Kinlap]

Here's some of my input for some of the match-ups that I have experienced with my Snake.

ZZS - I think this match-up favors Snake, even if ZZS is running circles around Snake. Your attacks do as much as the sum of most of her combos. While, she beats Snake in the air, she can't beat Snake's jabs and tilts. The problem with ZSS is that some of her best moves that out-range and out-prioritize are often her kill moves (B-air and side-B). Her B is a poor match for Snake's grenades and Nikita missiles. Her tether recovery can be stopped by well aimed Nikitas and edgehogs; often forcing her to Down-B thus limiting her options. Overall, Snake can overpower him through strength and can camp her as well.

Olimar - An uphill battle for Snake, although the slope isn't that steep. Olimar would win the projectile war unless the stage is longer enough for Snake to grenade spam back, but cooking grenades takes time compared to his side-B. His range is dangerous, but Snake does alright once he gets into Olimar's face. His recovery is poor, so Snake can usually finish him off if Olimar must use B-up to grab the edge. I personally think it's pretty even with a slight higher percentage to win for Olimar. So maybe, a 55:45 or 60:40.

PT (Squirtle) - Snake can get through Squirtle's mobility and fast attacks through his raw strength. Squirtle also can't finish you off without Smashes early, while Snake can kill him with nearly everything. Snake can also camp him to a decent degree of success.

PT (Ivysaur) - A lot harder than Squirtle since Ivysaur has a spammable Razor Leaf as well as good range. Ivysaur can also kill Snake with well placed non-staled U-airs and U-smashes. However, Snake can still beat him with his tilts (well, he beats a lot of people with his tilts). Also, Ivysaur has a really bad recovery since he must grab the edge and dies to edgehogs a lot. Still favors Snake.

PT (Charizard) - Imo, the only Pokemon out of the three that can match Snake evenly. Charizard has really good range in his tilts and is heavy. His aerials will usually beat Snake in a direct battle. Also, Rock Smash is really good against Snake, especially short hopped. His ground speed and grabs are useful against Snake as well. His D-throw (Makeout throw) does a nice number and knocks Snake pretty far back. Edgeguarding Snake is very hard if Snake is knocked up high. Charizard also should use his B-up since Nikitas will hit a gliding Charizard. This match-up is kinda even, and really depends on the stage as a factor.

Sonic - I think Snake has an upper hand, although if the Sonic is a smart hit-and-runner, it becomes a game of endurance. This of course favors Snake, who will outlast Sonic's hit and running tactics. Sonic also must approach Snake or get projectiled, which of course gives Snake an advantage. Sonic also can't disable mines without using his shield. I think edgeguarding is about even for both sides. Snake should win through outlasting and be able to kill Sonic early through direct KOs since Sonic needs to limit using his good moves for... KOs.

Pit - While a Pit can camp the crap out of Snake, Snake can approach with powershields (Pit's arrows are pretty easy to powershield since they're shiny and have a steady speed to it). Pit can't really compete with Snake on the ground, since Snake will simply overpower him. Pit will usually do decent against Snake, unless Snake is using reverse B-airs. Snake also has the advantage in edgeguarding, since Pit's B-up can be gimped a lot with Nikitas. Finally, Pit can't kill Snake as early since Snake not only lasts longer, but also has way more options. It's about even, since Snake will win once he's close and gets to use his groundgame. However, Pit can run away or try to force an aerial battle. Smaller stages for Snake, and bigger stages for Pit.

Overall, Snake does quite well if he can outlast and get kills early. If he can projectile camp, then that's even better.

 

[theGreatDekuTree]

i like this chart, even if half of its wrong
what is right is good.

for the record king ddd and marth are actually pretty even, but ill tell you king ddd has the advantage with range, power, & jumps.
marth is an easy win for good ddd's

 

[Dark Sonic]

Pit - While a Pit can camp the crap out of Snake, Snake can approach with powershields (Pit's arrows are pretty easy to powershield since they're shiny and have a steady speed to it). Pit can't really compete with Snake on the ground, since Snake will simply overpower him. Pit will usually do decent against Snake, unless Snake is using reverse B-airs. Snake also has the advantage in edgeguarding, since Pit's B-up can be gimped a lot with Nikitas. Finally, Pit can't kill Snake as early since Snake not only lasts longer, but also has way more options. It's about even, since Snake will win once he's close and gets to use his groundgame. However, Pit can run away or try to force an aerial battle. Smaller stages for Snake, and bigger stages for Pit.

Pit can also aim the arrows at the head and feet to prevent powershielding (it's actually pretty easy too), which makes the approach game just that much harder for Snake. While it's true that Snake beats Pit on the gound, Pit wins in the air with his disjointed fair and uair. And I don't believe Snake has the advantage in edgeguarding because you are forgetting one important thing. Pit rarely actually needs to use his up B, and when he does he often goes under and around to the other side of the stage. Pit has 4 midair jumps and can glide, so I don't see why gimping his up B is such a big threat. Pit on the other hand can hammer Snake's recovery with a continuous onslaught of well aimed arrows.

I agree that the size of the stage well play a big role in how this matchup goes, as on larger or flat stages Snake's got a lot of trouble in store, but he's relieved when he's got nice little platforms to approach with (and lay mines on.)

 

[Emblem Lord]

You contradicted yourself.

Also Marth vs Dedede is easily in Dedede's favor, but still a close match-up.

My post was direcetd at the poster above Sonic Wave BTW.

 

[The Green Marth]

This list is totaly irrelevant to what character beats what. there are several problems with "character matchups"

1. ANY character can beat or have an advantage to ANY character, it is not the character, its the person controlling the character.

2.brawl is about 20% luck, if you include things like smash balls, bumpers, and hammers. This means that i could be any character and have 20% chance to win with any character due to lucky items.
for example if = then since fox is speedy and reletivly weak in power, other characters like fox would have the same matchup. so if = than =
3.if you are going to make a character matchup chart, then it shouldnt be individual characters, but character groups. Divide the groups into speedy yet weak, strong yet slow, balanced, special, and other. this would be more useful and less complicated for players to find which characters thier main can take down.:bigthumb:

EDIT: sorry guys, i realize my mistake and take everything back. but seriously, you dont have to get pissed about it

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Stop it.

 

[Delta Z]

Uh...actually, it does make sense to have it for individual characters, since no two are completely alike.

Ike bad against Sonic? Are you joking!? Ike outprioritizes Sonic in almost everything. He can counter all of Sonic's B attacks. And he can take out Sonic with just about any of his own moves.

 

[Ark22]

Wow, this chart is really beginning to fill up. It is pretty useful to know what you are getting into before each match. I don't have any information to add to the chart right now, but if I notice some trends, then I'll post here.

 

[Bacon Man11]

This list is totaly irrelevant to what character beats what. there are several problems with "character matchups"

1. ANY character can beat or have an advantage to ANY character, it is not the character, its the person controlling the character.

2.brawl is about 20% luck, if you include things like smash balls, bumpers, and hammers. This means that i could be any character and have 20% chance to win with any character due to lucky items.

3.if you are going to make a character matchup chart, then it shouldnt be individual characters, but character groups. Divide the groups into speedy yet weak, strong yet slow, balanced, special, and other. this would be more useful and less complicated for players to find which characters thier main can take down.:bigthumb:

for example if = then since fox is speedy and reletivly weak in power, other characters like fox would have the same matchup. so if = than =

Dude your clueless.

 

[Kinlap]

This list is totaly irrelevant to what character beats what. there are several problems with "character matchups"

1. ANY character can beat or have an advantage to ANY character, it is not the character, its the person controlling the character.

2.brawl is about 20% luck, if you include things like smash balls, bumpers, and hammers. This means that i could be any character and have 20% chance to win with any character due to lucky items.

3.if you are going to make a character matchup chart, then it shouldnt be individual characters, but character groups. Divide the groups into speedy yet weak, strong yet slow, balanced, special, and other. this would be more useful and less complicated for players to find which characters thier main can take down.:bigthumb:

for example if = then since fox is speedy and reletivly weak in power, other characters like fox would have the same matchup. so if = than =

1. The chart that's being filled in this thread is solely for seeing who has a better advantage. It's not taking into account of player skill.

2. Again, this chart is purely between two elements... the two characters. Items, player skill, stage, and any other external factor are ignored.

3. No. Not two characters are the same. What you suggest is overgeneralizing everything.

 

[The Green Marth]

1. The chart that's being filled in this thread is solely for seeing who has a better advantage. It's not taking into account of player skill.

2. Again, this chart is purely between two elements... the two characters. Items, player skill, stage, and any other external factor are ignored.

3. No. Not two characters are the same. What you suggest is overgeneralizing everything.

Alright, i made a mistake...sorry

but...at least im not one of those idiots who keep trying to argue thier point and start a flame war right?

by the way kinlap thanks for waking me up i didnt know what i was thinking...its obvious the reason they call it character matchups is because its comparing the two characters and nothing else. How could i be so ignorant

 

[Kinlap]

Alright, i made a mistake...sorry

but...at least im not one of those idiots who keep trying to argue thier point and start a flame war right?

All good. You just misread something probably, and acknowledged it.

 

[JNS]

i play regularly with a pit that plays very well and here are my observations on how to play him

pikachu-his thundershock cancels his arrows, and his ability to crounch under the arrows gives the player more versatility to the player when trying to aproach a CASP (camping arrow-spamming pit ) near even matchup

jigglypuff-Although jiggly makes a very good job of avoiding a CASP's projectile she is a little bit on the short end when it comes to finishing. Although jiggly can chase him off the stage which makes the match up a little more even than what would be expected.

Zelda- she still gets pretty much beat up in the air. On the grund though she has the definite advantage as her moves out priorityze pit's.Her reflector protects her well and din's fire keeps him from just pressing the b button. I say 55/45 zelda still

Kirby- He plays surprisinglly well against a CASP his up b cancels his arrows, his side b goes through pit's side b, and he can dodge his arrows easilly since he rolls well and his crouch is lower than his arrows (if shot straight). Also if he manges to copy pit he can also arrow spam. i say he also has a small advantage

 

[Atacusbebop123]

helpful thanks

 

[IvanEva]

Hey ivaneva, I'm going to have the entire DK forum help with the match-ups for DK so you can get them out of the way and so you don't here from just me

Nice. I don't really have too much time right now to go fishing into all of the threads so be sure to update this one with what you get.

I don't want to make individual matchup complaints, because it's too early to know for sure who has an advantage in what matchup. But still I commend your effort, despite the fact that it might be impossible.

If you still feel that it's too early for individual match-ups you either haven't been playing enough or against enough decent opponents. Many match-ups are currently up for debate, but there are still many that aren't.

if TL has a pikmin on him when he throws his bomb it blows up on him.

I thought that this was funny and I never noticed it so I tried it out. It only works when they're humping his face and not his butt but it's pretty funny to watch, and useful to know, nevertheless.

 

[Jester Kirby]

how do you figure that Kirby is bad vs Marth? His fake kirbycides own marth's revocerys IMO.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik >= Meta Knight
It's a tricky matchup. Sheik may have a very slight advantage. Meta Knight has quick attacks and priority, but his edgeguarding power is diminished by Sheik's solid recovery options - not edgehogging will allow for a practically instant tether recovery, while Vanish has a very respectable recovery range and improperly edgeguarding Vanish will result in taking major damage and possible death if at a high %. Plus, Sheik's got her own speed and Meta Knight's light weight only works against his survival against a character normally good at racking up damage but poor at getting KOs. Needles are one of the few "weak" projectiles able to completely cut through Mach Tornado. Sheik also has a low enough shorthop to escape shield pressure and punish repetition all at once.
On the other hand, a good deal of Meta Knight's attacks are longer ranged, have more priority, and are either as fast as or faster than Sheik's attacks. His Up+B recovery will kill if Sheik misses an attempted edgeguard, and Up+B in general is able to kill very effectively. Sheik isn't a particularly heavy character herself, and once again, Meta Knight is a character known for building damage very quickly.

Overall, Meta Knight will have a harder time KOing Sheik than the other way around because of his heavier reliance on earlier % KOs with edgeguarding, but it's not an easy matchup for Sheik either.

EDIT: Jester Kirby... what?! Marth outranges Kirby, has better responses from shield, KOs about as effectively, and if people know what they're doing, Kirbicides simply shouldn't happen more than once in a set.

 

[Lootic]

i just wonder how link<kirby could happen. kirby aint really fast enough and has none good ranged attacks to break through links defence, or am i wrong.

 

[IvanEva]

how do you figure that Kirby is bad vs Marth? His fake kirbycides own marth's revocerys IMO.

Unless you can provide ample video evidence, that or some very solid reasoning, I don't think that I can justify putting this one down as debated. Marth murders Kirby. The tip and forward airs are just too much for Kirby to handle.

Also, what's a fake kirbycide? When you don't actually hop off the ledge to suck him in? Either way, Marth's Swordryuken will almost always just plow through Kirby instead of getting him sucked up.

 

[omegablackmage]

ok gw beats dk and lucario, i don't know where people got the idea he loses to them.

of the characters not listed:

gaw probably beats: bowser, captain, fox, ganon, jiggz, ddd, kirby, luigi, peach, samus, sheik, sonic, wario, wolf

most of these can be reasoned with sheer range or speed advantages. characters that are probably close to neutral are samus and sheik, but i'd say gw has the advantage.

gaw is neutral to: zss, diddy

mainly because diddy is quick and has the bananas to approach gw with. zss has a lot of range to combat gw with compared to most other characters.

i agree with the characters listed as neutrals, and i think ike is a neutral matchup.


when this thing is finished/filled out, can we get like a 1-10 thingy like the other chart has, it'll be much more informative.

 

[Ilucamy]

I'm gonna say Olimar < Lucario and Lucario < Pit.

Lucario has the doubleteam-pikmin combo to his advantage. Not to mention the advantage in the air that Lucario has. Olimar's aerials may be good, but Lucario's out-range his. Olimar is also light, something that is always a big disadvantage when fighting Lucario. (Specifically Lucario because of the way his aura works) Olimar doesn't have a great recovery either.

Pit has two reflectors. A big no-no for Lucario. Great recovery, also very bad, and a spammable projectile. Pit also had great manueverability in the air and is pretty darn quick. His lightness is made up for by his recovery, but the way his lightness negatively affects Lucario's combos is also bad.

 

[Gindler]

Ha, I love how Marth never has a disadvantage to anyone. Same with Pit and Metaknight. Nice to see that you got the obvious superiority of yoshi over olimar (most people deny that fact). But yeah from my experiences playing actual good people with yoshi is that swordsman (besides ike) tend to give yoshi ALOT of trouble, but he easily anihilates bowser donkey kong and however's recovery move is horrible vertical but great horizontal do to his Dair spikes.

But yeah, swordsman tend to be better on the matchup list for any character without a sword do to their reach and somewhat good power.

Yoshi's pursuit is unmatched in brawl though due to his ability to get high fast (awesome double jump) and air maneuverability. That's one of his best attributes so keep that in mind when updating this list.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I completely disagree with the Sonic chart.
Sonic> Mario*
Sonic = Luigi*
Sonic = Pikachu
Sonic = Jigglypuff
Sonic> Captain Falcon*
Sonic> Ganonodorf*
Sonic>Yoshi
Sonic= Pit*
Sonic<Metaknight
Sonic>Ike*
Sonic<Marth*
Sonic<Falco
Sonic<Wolf
Sonic=Fox
Sonic?Rob
Sonic<Olimar*
Sonic<Lucario
Sonic>Bowser*
Sonic>DK*
Sonic=Dedede
Sonic<Diddy Kong
Sonic=Kirby
Sonic>Samus*
Sonic?Zamus
Sonic>Ice Climbers* (Can easily kill Nana)
Sonic?Snake*
Sonic?Peach
Sonic<Zelda
Sonic>Squirtle
Sonic?Charizard
Sonic=Ivysaur*
Sonic>Link*
Sonic<Toon Link
Sonic?Mr. Game & Watch
Sonic>Ness*
Sonic=Lucas*
Sonic=Wario
* Characters Sonic can easily gimp

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean..if you actually go to my Marth match-up thread you will actually see the match-up ratios.

Marth doesn't flat out destroy any character unless that character just sucks.

 

[cHooKay]

dude can you explain your reasoning as to how mario has a disadvantage against kirby? I've never lost against any kirby mainer...

 

[Yuna]

I'm gonna say Olimar < Lucario and Lucario < Pit.

Lucario has the doubleteam-pikmin combo to his advantage. Not to mention the advantage in the air that Lucario has. Olimar's aerials may be good, but Lucario's out-range his. Olimar is also light, something that is always a big disadvantage when fighting Lucario. (Specifically Lucario because of the way his aura works) Olimar doesn't have a great recovery either.

Pit has two reflectors. A big no-no for Lucario. Great recovery, also very bad, and a spammable projectile. Pit also had great manueverability in the air and is pretty darn quick. His lightness is made up for by his recovery, but the way his lightness negatively affects Lucario's combos is also bad.

Lucario's projectile is one of the worst in the game except for edgeguarding opponents recovering quasi-low and even then we have the new airdodge.

If you're spamming his Aura Sphere and more importantly, if you're letting Pit reflect it on reaction, you're doing something cataclysmically wrong.

Ha, I love how Marth never has a disadvantage to anyone. Same with Pit and Metaknight. Nice to see that you got the obvious superiority of yoshi over olimar (most people deny that fact). But yeah from my experiences playing actual good people with yoshi is that swordsman (besides ike) tend to give yoshi ALOT of trouble, but he easily anihilates bowser donkey kong and however's recovery move is horrible vertical but great horizontal do to his Dair spikes.

But yeah, swordsman tend to be better on the matchup list for any character without a sword do to their reach and somewhat good power.

Yoshi's pursuit is unmatched in brawl though due to his ability to get high fast (awesome double jump) and air maneuverability. That's one of his best attributes so keep that in mind when updating this list.

What the heck does Yoshi have, really? His shield still sucks, his Up B is only nominally better for recovery, he doesn't have the DJC anymore and you're listing his 2nd jump like it's something spectacular? So? Lots of characters have high 2nd jumps. Doesn't make them automatically good if they can't do much (his aerials lag too much and there's too little hitstun for him to combo even with the 2nd jump).

Yoshi's sucky recovery is also unmatched. In a game with almost no hitstun where the opponent can almost always move before you reach him in the air, why would you constantly risk dying my using your 2nd jump to reach them? If they whack you an attack which sends you too far off the stage to grab the ledge, you're pretty much dead.

His ground-options all suck now except really spaced ones and even then there isn't much he can do.

 

[choknater]

Guys, help me on this one. You Ness/ROB/Snake/TL players, not the IC players. I know the IC side pretty well.

I'd say...

Give IC's a neutral or advantage on Ness... pretty close, but he's slower than Lucas so it's easier to deal with.

Slight disadvantage with Toon Link... however it could be neutral if IC's can pull off their CG's very well.

Snake can camp them EXTREMELY well so give them an X on Snake. It's too hard to grab him.

I don't know if ROB's ability to camp them is as good... I haven't played any really great ones yet. But I'd imagine IC's have a disadvantage...

 

[Ripple]

Nice. I don't really have too much time right now to go fishing into all of the threads so be sure to update this one with what you get.
.

Will do.

you seem to have everything right except for the DK vs. ivysaur. I don't see how ivysaur has an advantage in this, 4 of the most actve members in the DK forum (myself included) seem to think its the other way around. ivysaur can't spam too much and his recovery is terrible. If anyone thinks that ivy>DK please tell me why you think so. Don't tell me that he can kill dk at 80% either, DK can do the exact same back

edit: jiggs MAY be wrong not to many jiggs mainers now

444th post

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Marth actually has problems against Lucario, since Lucario's hitboxes actually have more range than his own, and Lucario has the added advantage of having a very abusable projectile, excellent gimping abilities, and his chain throw works on Marth until about 30% at the start of a match.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Guys, help me on this one. You Ness/ROB/Snake/TL players, not the IC players. I know the IC side pretty well.

I'd say...

Give IC's a neutral or advantage on Ness... pretty close, but he's slower than Lucas so it's easier to deal with.

Slight disadvantage with Toon Link... however it could be neutral if IC's can pull off their CG's very well.

Snake can camp them EXTREMELY well so give them an X on Snake. It's too hard to grab him.

I don't know if ROB's ability to camp them is as good... I haven't played any really great ones yet. But I'd imagine IC's have a disadvantage...

Ness is faster than Lucas. his yo-yos and dashing attack also catch Nana very nicely even if Popo shields.

Also, how come Lucario has a poor match up against DK? DK has no projectiles or defense against them, he has enough lag for Lucario to punish, a lot of his attacks are easy enough to see coming and he has a terrible recovery against aggressive edgeguarders, whom Lucario is one of the best of.

Also, Lucario's initial jab to force palm chain grab combo at 0% takes DK up to 60/70% without a problem, and from there on leads into a down throw, which leads into an aerial chase that DK isn't fast enough to get out of.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Lucario doesn't outrange Marth. This is just false. Lucario's F-smash and his Dair are the only two moves that flat out outrange Marth's moves. But on the rest of thier moves Marth wins in range. Maybe Lucario's U-smash has more range but they look virtually equal to me.

Lucarios projectile game is a joke. So easy to jab. It's not even funny. Excellent gimping? Yeah he gimps pretty well. Marth gimps even better, and Lucario is one of the easiest characters to gimp since Extreme Speed doesn't hit so you can just edgehog him or force him on the stage, in which case he will lag and you can just pound his face in.

Also Marth kills far sooner then Lucario.

Lucario has a CG that only works at low percents and he has good combos. Good for him.

Marth is superior to him in pretty much every other catagory though.

Marth has advantage on Lucario.

 

[cwjalex]

Marth is superior to him in pretty much every other catagory though.

Marth has advantage on Lucario.

Totally agree...and how is lucario's projectile really "abusable" ?

On a side note, I think Lucario > Marth on wifi...lag hurts marth way more

 

[Andromeda]

I would say that Toon Link has a good matchup against Dedede. Dedede is to slow to be a good counter to his projectiles, and most attacks have higher priority than Dedede's.

 

[JJ259]

I would definitely disagree. If anything, it would be a neutral with Lucario vs Marth.

Lucario has awesome combos, projectiles that can easily stagger people's movement (don't know what your talking about). and great range on some of his best attacks (dair, utilt, fair, uair). I haven't really fought many good marths but as far as i can tell, both character seem pretty dang equal and it usually comes down to either a lucky kill/unlucky death and more importantly, player skill.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But the thing is Lucario is very weak till he gets buffed from damage. Plus he is on the light side and Marth kills early, so Lucario won't be able to abuse his rage system that much.

Just another reason why Marth has advantage on Lucario.

 

[JJ259]

Although he may be weak when he's low damage, he can combo VERY well because he also has low KB at low damage. The way I see it, both character are rather fast, they both have good range with awesome disjointed hitboxes and they both have good aerial games. All I know is that I've never been in a situation vs a marth where I was thinking "I just can't beat this character."

 

[Browny]

Lucario doesn't outrange Marth. This is just false.

ehm lulz

lucarios stutter-stepped fmsash has almost 2x the range of marth. dont forget his fmsash has a tipper effect just like marth. Even a basic force palm outranges marth. Lucarios aerials outrange marth's, not to mention out-prioritize them. His aura sphere outranges marth (duh). his tilts outrange marth. probably the only thing he doesnt ourange marth on is his jab.

otherwise,
lol

 

[Emblem Lord]

A Lucario player should never feel like he can't beat Marth.

I said Marth has advantage on Lucario.

I didn't see Marth destroys Lucario or butt **** *** ***** him.

To the above poster: No. Test it in practice mode. Move for move Marth outranges Lucario on MOST of thier attacks. Also they both have disjointed hitboxes last time I checked so your point about priority is moot.

Also I already mentioned the moves that Lucarios has that beat Marth's.

Try again.

Although it's pointless since I'm not wrong.

 

[Subzan]

I don't think that ZSS is at a disadvantage when facing marth. Her kill moves are out of his counter's range and she's a lot faster. They are most likely neutral imo.