Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Nitrix]

Snake vs Pika is in Pika's favour.

- Pika can chainthrow him with 2 throws

- Pika can punish Snake alot

- Pika's edgeguarding abilities really hurts Snake's recovery.


It is at least a minor advantage for Pika.

 

[Brinzy]

To bowser vs. earthbounder:

Because it isn't guaranteed, for one. Two, they beat him anyway.

 

[Kiwikomix]

And I don't understand, you said he isn't good, and then you said he has reasonable matchups... aren't the matchups what determines the quality of the character? O_o

Upon analyzing Yoshi's matchups one by one, it shows that Yoshi is the character that doesn't suffer terribly to any other character. However, he doesn't completely destroy any other character, either. So he could theoretically be used in a tourney, since there's no matchups where you automatically have to pull out your second. And although his disadvantages outnumber his advantages, it's important to note that most disadvantages and advantages are very slight.(Snake and MK 4:6 matchups, for example, are huge.)
So it would, I guess, imply that Yoshi is an "average" character in Brawl. That doesn't mean he's well off, though, because the majority of characters are "good" and Yoshi is worse than all of those.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I was there, and Tenki made the thread

No one had actually played a good sonic. (I still haven't)
But the fact still remains that the ZSS boards lists sonic as neutral

EDIT: didn't see Tenki post because he's hiding his main again

I could have sworn I made the thread.
O_O I must be getting things mixed up.
But tenki is right I did most of the discussion (and flaming).

Yes its true, but it still took a bit to get rid of the common misconceptions.
There aren't many good Sonic users, the same for ZSS since she's underplayed like other characters.

I think its even between ZSS and Sonic.


Sonic and Yoshi I am not too sure. I cannot help but feel it may be nuetral since its sort of pulls either way. L:east from my experience.
WE NEED MORE GOOD YOSHI AND SONIC MAINS ****IT!

Bah I wouldn't mind if Snake and MK were soft banned.

>_>.

 

[popsofctown]

i wouldn't mind a soft ban either. But i don't think Americans participate in soft bans very well.

 

[Mmac]

However, he doesn't completely destroy any other character, either.

Yoshi has an Infinite on Wario. I think that's pretty destroying right there....

And I still think Yoshi = Meta Knight. Despite what people say. I remember the discussion on him 2 months ago at our matchup thread that we agreed on a 4.5:5.5 Ratio. He had to vote either 4:6 or 5:5 due to us not supporting .5's back in the day.

Sonic and Yoshi I am not too sure. I cannot help but feel it may be nuetral since its sort of pulls either way. L:east from my experience.
WE NEED MORE GOOD YOSHI AND SONIC MAINS ****IT!

I'm a good Yoshi, and I think you're a good Sonic......

Also, I hate it when someone says "Yoshi" and then everyone else blows it out of proportion.

 

[Brinzy]

lol, one "destroying" match-up for Yoshi. Also, even if he's even with MK, how does that carry him to a higher placement? I just want to know what is so good about him. Not getting destroyed by MK is a start, but what else can he do?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Let me spell this out.

Pros
- Yoshi has the highest aerial speed in the game. This mainly helps him with bairs, his main approaching move.
- Yoshi has a good grab. Not out of shield, we'll get to that later, but pivot grabbing and even dash grabbing eliminate the tremendous lag on his standing grabs.
- Yoshi can chain grab half the cast, including MK, Dedede and sort of Falco. It's not easily escapable, and there's no percent limit since it's a release grab, but of course that has negative side effects like being hindered by platforms and not doing as much damage.
- Yoshi's eggs are a good projectile. You have to admit that. They have the best range of any non-infinite projectile, and they cover a much larger radius than most projectiles. He can't camp indefinitely with them, but it still makes the opponent approach him rather than the other way around.
- Yoshi's tilts are great. They have great range, come out almost instantly, and can stop almost all ground approaches, and many aerial approaches.
- Yoshi's recovery, while extremely situational, usually gets him back to the stage. Only a couple of characters can gimp him, because he has enough defensive options to get to the ledge.

Cons
- His shield is awful. He can't jump out of it (not really a problem, but still), the roll is infamously laggy, and he can't glide toss because of it. His out-of-shield game is, hands down, the worst of any character, considering that shield grabs can't be pivoted.
- Yoshi's range in front of him and below him in the air is lackluster. Nair can sometimes get the job done, but it usually doesn't outrange anything. As such, Yoshi is forced to RAR for approaches.
- Yoshi's specials (besides eggs) are situational and usually not that useful. Against certain characters like Olimar and Snake, egg roll can be a good approach, but most of the time it gets outprioritized. Egg lay is humiliating to the opponent but it's usually not important unless you're fighting the Ice Climers. Yoshi bomb is a terrible air-to-ground move but can KO if the opponent is at a high enough percentage.
- Yoshi has trouble KOing. Fsmash is slow and not very rangy. Usmash and uair are good but can sometimes be hard to set up. At higher percentages (175-ish), dsmash, nair and downB become viable options. Otherwise it's difficult for Yoshi to kill, especially since he's no great shakes at edgeguarding either.

10quotingyourselfmeansyouhaveabigegos

 

[IvanEva]

Bowser = Meta Knight

LOL WUT?

If I recall correctly, this was a result of some comment that Gimpyfish made a while ago. I'm changing it back to Bowser < Metaknight though since Metaknight's have gotten better, I find.

To the Yoshi lovers: please post who you find Yoshi has the advantage over instead of saying that he's underrated. For example, I'll pitch in a few:

Craptain Falcon < Yoshi. Yoshi's strong horzontal movement and neutral air attack greatly help to keep the pressure on Falcon and to push him over the edge for a forward air spike. Yoshi's back air as a baiting attack can't really be punished by Falcon.

Charizard < Yoshi. Similar to Falcon, Charizard can be beaten around in the air fairly easily. A short hopped up air with Yoshi is an easy to hit with solid killer. Flamethrower doesn't bother Yoshi much since it's easy for him to double jump over. Rock Smash is too slow for Yoshi's fast neutral air and Charizard isn't a real dragon.

Old Manondorf << Yoshi. Eggs can annoy the hell out of the slow moving Ganondorf, a short hopped neutral air can kick him away fairly easily and retreating back airs are a good way to keep him at bay. He can be chain grabbed and spiked with ease. If Ganondorf in close enough to the edge to recover, he's close enough to be down aired as well. What Ganondorf has in this match-up is his strong aerials, which Yoshi can punish wiffs easily, and his *****ing hairdo.

 

[Melfice z]

>Coughthislistisbull,it'stheskilloftheplayerCough<

coming from the guy who has advantages to most, if not all the characters on the roster?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'm a good Yoshi, and I think you're a good Sonic......

Also, I hate it when someone says "Yoshi" and then everyone else blows it out of proportion.

You live too far away so wifi is no go.
Move to NY!

 

[Kiwikomix]

Actually he has a legendary Canadian connection, so Wi-Fi works everywhere.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Seriously?
A number of the canadians I play tend to lag T_T

 

[Mmac]

Charizard < Yoshi. Similar to Falcon, Charizard can be beaten around in the air fairly easily. A short hopped up air with Yoshi is an easy to hit with solid killer. Flamethrower doesn't bother Yoshi much since it's easy for him to double jump over. Rock Smash is too slow for Yoshi's fast neutral air and Charizard isn't a real dragon.

I would not say that Yoshi has the upper hand against Charizard. He's the hardest of the 3 for Yoshi and It seems more like an evenish battle, drifting to Charizard's side a bit. Charizard can hold himself while in the air quite well, and on the ground even better, especially with the dreaded Rock Smash. Yoshi can Combo Charizard quite well, but has difficulties getting in. The Chaingrab Yoshi has on him can help matters a bit. One last thing to point out is that Nair will not beat out the Rock Smash, unless the Charizard for some reason does not see it coming. Personally I have trouble with Charizard, but a majority of Yoshi users and even the Charizard mains seem to agree that it goes into Yoshi's favour.

Also Pivot Grabs really help out in the Falcon and Ganondorf match, because it can snag them right out of their Side and Down B's, making any type of ground approach impossible. They have to come from the air, which is really risky, or try some sort of mindgame to trick the Yoshi to let his guard down.

Since you want me to go into every character in detail, I will do so. Grab a snack because I got alot to say.... Also prepare for the Wall of Organized Yoshi Text

Yoshi > Bowser - This seems like the same deal with Charizard, except he doesn't have as much options dealing with Yoshi to attack or to hold his ground. Yes, he's got some pretty good moves, and his Fair is a pain to get around, but he's just has too many blind spots for Yoshi to easily to get in. Also Bowser is forced to play an offencive game in most cases, which limits his options even more. Bowser can gimp Yoshi pretty easy, but Yoshi can do the same.

Yoshi = Diddy - Diddy is a tricky one, he's got a good Air and Ground game, but has to rely on Banana's for Combos. This matchup (and probably all matchup's with him) is probably all about the Banana's. He needs them to open up approaches and to do Combos, due to a majority of his moves have too much Knockback to allow such a thing, and his Dash Cartwheel can be Pivoted for another Chaingrab. He also needs to use them as a projectile because Yoshi's eggs go straight through his Peanuts, and he will usually never have a chance to charge up his gun. Even without the Banana's, Diddy still matches Yoshi quite well.

Yoshi < Falco - While I do agree that Falco certainly has the upper hand in this battle, it is certainly not a shutdown. Because of the Blaster and Reflector, this is one of the few fights where Yoshi needs to play Offencive in most cases. Yoshi's Airs can beat out or equalize Falco's airs with the Bair, Uair, and Nair. He is tricky to approach on the ground though, because of his good priority in his Tilts, Reflector, and Shield Grab CG. Yoshi can also sort of CG him back also. It is a tricky fight for Yoshi, but certainly not impossible

Yoshi = Fox - Crazy, I know, but it seems like the majority of the Fox mains agree too. You swear this won't be so even , but if you look closely, it's almost like a Ditto! O_o. Fox's Air's = Yoshi's airs. Fox's Ground = Yoshi's Ground. Yoshi has a "Real" Projectile, but he can reflect it, so one has to wait for the other to be aggressive, or both go aggressive. They can both combo eachother pretty well, and they have trouble gimping eachother (Fox can't Shinespike or Dair through the DJ Armour, and Fox's Side B is just plain hard to intercept). Fox can kill alittle better, but Yoshi can cause damage easier, and Fox is light as hell.

Yoshi = or > Ice Climbers - Yes, IC's Chaingrabs are scary as hell, other than that, they're aren't so though for the dino. They have a pretty good air and ground game, but nothing that Yoshi can't handle. They can play a good defencive game with the Ice Blocks, and Blizzard too. What Yoshi has over the Climbers is two things. First thing is that Yoshi can separate the Climbers easily. Bairs, Pivots (Gotta discard fast though), Egg Rolls, and Egg Lay (Probably the only time where it's actually useful), can all separate them easily, allowing to go after Nana and take care of her. No Nana, No Problems! The Second thing is that Yoshi can Gimp the Climbers extreamly easily. Just one Dair is all it takes to completely screw up their UpB. An Egg can also screw up their SideB recovery easily, due to most of the time it causes them to scatter (usually on high percents) and makes them SideB out of sync, causing Nana to drop like a rock.

Yoshi = Ike - I'll give him this, Ike is one scary guy who fights for his friends. Ike has tons of powerful moves, but are slow as hell. The only fast ones are his Jab (Which is excellent), his Bair (Though hard to hit with), and his Dsmash (Doesn't have good range). It's pretty much an evade and attack game. Just Dodge, Attack, Repeat until he's dead. Ike Jab, once again, can be a pain in most times and can set up for kills in some cases, but the main worry is probably Ike's trademarked Fair. It is alittle slow and easy to see coming, he can get you into a spot where you are unable to dodge or attack. This matchup is about picking your shots, but if Yoshi screws up, then it's not going to look pretty.

Yoshi > Jigglypuff - Yoshi's Air game > Jigglypuff's Air game. Nuff said.

Yoshi = Kirby - Personally, I haven't played a Kirby yet, but every Yoshi who has, and every Kirby who has played a Yoshi agrees, so yeah...

Yoshi > Lucas - This is pretty much about opposites. Lucas's air's match's Yoshi quite well, and his grounds > Yoshi's. However, Lucas has troubles approaching Yoshi on the ground in the air (Dair works alright, but can still be beaten out by a Usmash, or a "umbrellaed" egg), and same when He's on the ground defending against Yoshi in the air. Usmash and Dsmash are too easy to see coming, and his Uair is too stiff to counter Yoshi, who usually comes from the sides. Lucas has better Projectiles in midranges, but Yoshi can Chaingrab him to the edge, which he can easily intercept his UpB Projectile with a well aimed Egg, or an air attack (Dair works really well) when he tries to recover.

Yoshi = Luigi - Luigi is pretty much like a Slower Diddy, which a majority of his moves can't really combo at all. In that sense, Luigi, while having a good number of kill moves, can't string together attacks, so he has to rack up damage one punch or kick at a time. While most of Luigi's moves have good priority and range (Nair, Utilt, Usmash, Fsmash), Yoshi can still beat them with his own airs. Gimping Luigi physically is out of the question, because his DownB likes to send you straight into a stage spike most of the time. Yoshi's Projectile beats out Luigi's wimpy Fireballs, so Yoshi can force him into the offencive. Luigi's DownB is probably the hardest to intercept because it comes at you too freaken fast and unexpected, like a Jinjo in a Landmaster. I have easier time's catching Sonic and Jigglypuff, than Luigi's whirlwind of death.

Yoshi = or < Mario - Mario is pretty much the same as Luigi, except has more Combo options and a Reflector at a cost of less Kill power, approaches, and recovery. You may think that this will make Mario easier, but those really do help alot with dealing with Yoshi. Plus Mario doesn't really have trouble Killing either, at least, on the ground. The only thing I may add is that there's usually a misconception with Mario's ability to gimp Yoshi. FLUDD actually HELPS Yoshi recover (no joke), and Same with his Cape if he using his DJ (It add's more height, and his horizontal speed is more than enough to make up for the distance he went back). Only when Yoshi already had use his DJ and is using his eggs to recover (Which is rare in most cases), that's when the Cape becomes a huge threat.

Yoshi = MetaKnight - Here we go now. Now, MetaKnight owns, (It's a scientific fact), but Yoshi actually deals with him right now. Attacking head on against MetaKnight is suicide. However if Yoshi plays a defencive playstlye, then he stands a great chance against the batwinged terror. MK doesn't have a projectile (Thank god!), so Yoshi can force him into the offencive, which is what you want. However, he's fast so if you don't space right with the eggs, you'll be open and will be severally punished. Now, why make MetaKnight offencive? Pivot Grabs! They beat out almost every approach he has. Short Hop, Dash, Drill Rush, even the Tornado, It doesn't matter. He will be in his mouth, Yoshi will chew, release, then CG or Usmash him. Happy Face . MK can come from above, but good thing that Yoshi's Usmash and Uair beat's his Dair, which make's Yoshi one surprising hard to approach character for MetaKnight, and the Release to Sliding Usmash makes it one of the easier character Yoshi can kill. Overall, you want to stay defensively on the Ground on much as possible.

Yoshi > Olimar - Yoshi's Bair completely DESTROYS his Pikmin, And alot of Yoshi's moves (Egg Roll, UpB Eggs) do a good job too. His ground game is tricky, but he can still get around due to the Stiffniss of the pikmin's attacks, or the afterlag, and a Majority of Yoshi's Airs can beat out Olimar's Air's. Finally Yoshi's running grab can actually beat out Olimar's grabs, which is a huge plus if you're facing a grab happy Olimar. Plus his rather shabby recovery doesn't help either.

Yoshi < Peach - What? You thought it was all going to be positive about Yoshi? Peach's airs are quite good and beat out Yoshi's airs. This is a problem. Her ground game is also good at countering Yoshi in the air. Her float tricks she can do and her turnips are also bothersome. Everything else is pretty even.

Yoshi > Squirtle - Squirtle has a pretty hard time with Yoshi. They match well in the Air, but Yoshi's ground game is better than Squirtles, and his Air to Ground. A majoritly of his approaches can be countered with Pivot Grabs, and just like MetaKnight, can be CG, or Usmashed on release. Yoshi can even play aggressively, coming from the air, which Squirtle can't really defend from well either. Ivysaur or Charizard are better choices. Also same deal with the FLUDD, Water Gun doesn't hinder him at all

Yoshi > Sonic? - I'm not sure, but I'm still debating on this. Pivots Grabs can really hinder Sonic's game, if Yoshi can actually snag to blue blur that is....

Yoshi >> Wario - Infinite. It's actually pretty easy to grab Wario if you can Pivot well. I like to note that it's actually pretty hard to do it online due to it requiring timing. I can do it to my friend all the time, but online, the best I've gotten was a 12 straight chain before I screwed up the delayed imput.

Yoshi = Zero Suit Samus - We both agree that it's pretty evenish, but we're still discussing if there's is more to this matchup.


And that's all of them.... We're still debating on some. Like Yoshi = Pit? Yoshi > ZSS? Yoshi < Sheik? I also want to play a (Good) Sonic user to see if our discussion is not flawed.

Seriously?
A number of the canadians I play tend to lag T_T

I usually don't lag. I even played people in Europe and barley got any lag at all.

And now my wrist hurts for all this typing

 

[Brinzy]

Yoshi > Lucas? Lucas has an easier time forcing an approach. Eggs might be decent to use, but PK Fire + PK Thunder > eggs. Lucas's ftilt comes out very quickly and is disjointed. Fsmash is quick and kills pretty early on no matter who you are. Dtilt trips and can be spammed for an easy, easy 20% or more on anyone. Dsmash is designed to punish rolls, and according to you guys, Yoshi doesn't have the best shield and his roll is crappy, which should earn an easy Dsmash for Lucas.

As for an egg gimping Lucas, I don't think it is happening. Lucas also has a great midair jump, and he has a good tether. Lucas usually only uses PK Thunder to recover when he is below and away from the stage, and I don't see an egg stopping PK Thunder.

 

[popsofctown]

I don't think Yoshi's really roll around. They jump around in a blur of kicking boots and wagging tails.

I'd agree that Lucas probably outcamps the matchup, but Yoshi has a good approach game. Lucas' great strength is stopping ground approaches, but Yoshi's jump is almost as fast as his dash.

 

[Mmac]

Yoshi > Lucas? Lucas has an easier time forcing an approach. Eggs might be decent to use, but PK Fire + PK Thunder > eggs. Lucas's ftilt comes out very quickly and is disjointed. Fsmash is quick and kills pretty early on no matter who you are. Dtilt trips and can be spammed for an easy, easy 20% or more on anyone. Dsmash is designed to punish rolls, and according to you guys, Yoshi doesn't have the best shield and his roll is crappy, which should earn an easy Dsmash for Lucas.

As for an egg gimping Lucas, I don't think it is happening. Lucas also has a great midair jump, and he has a good tether. Lucas usually only uses PK Thunder to recover when he is below and away from the stage, and I don't see an egg stopping PK Thunder.

I did say that Lucas's ground game is better than Yoshi's, I'm not denying that. However the main problem is that Yoshi is an air based character and is going to be in the air for the majority of the match. Lucas has troubled dealing with the air when he's on the ground, which is the main problem as Yoshi can easily get in with a Bair Approach. I said PK Fire was better also, but it has limited range. you can't outspam Yoshi with PK Thunder because he can cancel it out by hitting Lucas, or the Projectile itself. or if you're talking about hitting yourself with it, problem is that in that range, is easy to see coming, and Yoshi can Shield, or even Pivot Grab it in time. or worse if you Misjudge the distance, will end up with a Fsmash to your face

And while I do agree that Lucas will find less times to use his UpB compared to Ness, He can still do several thing to force him to use it. Eggspam to cancel his DJ, and Edgeguarding the Tether are a few examples. Also it's true that you can cancel out his UpB Projectile with an egg or air, but it's not really easy, and it's delicate because you need to hit the Projectile, but not him. However Yoshi can just go for a straight up attack with one of his airs before he can UpB

 

[ShadowLink84]

I would play Mmac but I have no good wifi at the moment.
Try Tenki and Blue terrorist. Those are good Sonic users.

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario is actually better at approaching than Luigi, but yah Luigi has more priority, kill power, and a longer recovery.

 

[Brinzy]

You're assuming that Lucas is gonna let you hit him while he uses PK Thunder. Yeah, not happening. Jump out at him before PK Thunder, and he can tether the ledge. Jump out after, and you're too late. Lucas isn't that easy to gimp.

Also, just because Yoshi is in the air doesn't mean Lucas has to be. Up-tilt is an excellent anti-air and can be used instead of up smash. It comes out fast and it has a long-lasting hitbox. But I don't feel like arguing for Lucas to be honest... I just think Yoshi > Lucas is taking it a bit far.


As for Luigi not being able to combo... yeah, I'll let a Luigi main talk.

 

[Matador]

Yoshi = Luigi - Luigi is pretty much like a Slower Diddy, which a majority of his moves can't really combo at all. In that sense, Luigi, while having a good number of kill moves, can't string together attacks, so he has to rack up damage one punch or kick at a time. While most of Luigi's moves have good priority and range (Nair, Utilt, Usmash, Fsmash), Yoshi can still beat them with his own airs. Gimping Luigi physically is out of the question, because his DownB likes to send you straight into a stage spike most of the time. Yoshi's Projectile beats out Luigi's wimpy Fireballs, so Yoshi can force him into the offencive. Luigi's DownB is probably the hardest to intercept because it comes at you too freaken fast and unexpected, like a Jinjo in a Landmaster. I have easier time's catching Sonic and Jigglypuff, than Luigi's whirlwind of death.

Luigi can't combo? Luigi is probably in the top5 when it comes to his combo game. Luigi's nair and fair also have insane priority. I haven't tested it, but I seriously doubt any of Yoshi's aerials outprioritize it.

 

[Mmac]

You're assuming that Lucas is gonna let you hit him while he uses PK Thunder. Yeah, not happening. Jump out at him before PK Thunder, and he can tether the ledge. Jump out after, and you're too late. Lucas isn't that easy to gimp.

But you never really clarified the "What if Lucas DJ got canceled out by an egg" Scenario. I guess it is an situational situation where Yoshi has to put him into a spot where he can be more easily gimped.

Also, just because Yoshi is in the air doesn't mean Lucas has to be. Up-tilt is an excellent anti-air and can be used instead of up smash. It comes out fast and it has a long-lasting hitbox. But I don't feel like arguing for Lucas to be honest... I just think Yoshi > Lucas is taking it a bit far.

The only problem I can see with the Utilt is that it goes straight up, and the Hitbox is thin to the sides. It can probably stop an Nair and a Dair approach, and shield from a DownB, but not a Bair, which is his main method of approaching, which can still be a problem.

As for Luigi not being able to combo... yeah, I'll let a Luigi main talk.

Again, I never said Luigi can't combo, he can't combo well. I know he has some combos like Dthrow > Utilt > Uair on low %'s, but he doesn't have much else because the majority of his moves have too much knockback, which doesn't allow such a thing to easily happen.

Luigi can't combo? Luigi is probably in the top5 when it comes to his combo game. Luigi's nair and fair also have insane priority. I haven't tested it, but I seriously doubt any of Yoshi's aerials outprioritize it.

Actually, I think I did (Accidentally) said Luigi can't combo >_>. He can do that Dthrow thing and string at very low %, but I don't know what else he can do...

From what I gathered. Yoshi Can beat out Nair with his Uair and I think his Bair. Fair matches Yoshi Bair, but Yoshi still takes the full hit, while Luigi only takes a part of the attack (Usually only 3%) So I guess Fair is true. It could probably be beaten out by a Usmash if Yoshi wans on the ground, but can;t remember

 

[Matador]

Again, I never said Luigi can't combo, he can't combo well. I know he has some combos like Dthrow > Utilt > Uair on low %'s, but he doesn't have much else because the majority of his moves have too much knockback, which doesn't allow such a thing to easily happen.

lol, wut? Luigi's main combo starter is his nair, nothing else. The fact that he can fit 3 aerials into 1 shorthop, and that his nair has ridiculous priority makes starting up combos childs-play for Luigi. Utilts chain together well into the 40% range before you can escape without good precision on your doublejump or airdodge; even then it's a good trap because airdodging could set Luigi up to grab you and start up another combo. Uair -> Nair is inescapable until KO% on most characters, and his Fair leads into his SideB offstage. (tons of knockback if you get a misfire). His jab game is also amongst the best.

If you're gonna pick on one of Luigi's weakpoints to make Yoshi seem better than he is, pick an actual weakpoint.

Actually, I think I did (Accidentally) said Luigi can't combo >_>. He can do that Dthrow thing and string at very low %, but I don't know what else he can do...

From what I gathered. Yoshi Can beat out Nair with his Uair and I think his Bair. Fair matches Yoshi Bair, but Yoshi still takes the full hit, while Luigi only takes a part of the attack (Usually only 3%) So I guess Fair is true. It could probably be beaten out by a Usmash if Yoshi wans on the ground, but can;t remember.

I call bull****. Nair rips thru his Bair, but Uair depends on how they clash. If Yoshi Uairs the Nair from below, of course it goes thru. If the Uair, however, hits the toe of the Nair, Luigi goes thru. Nair and Usmash are even on the ground; both are hit.

My quarell wasn't with Yoshi's priority either way. Saying he "can't combo" or his moves have "too much knockback" was where I had a problem. Comboing is practically what he's known for.

 

[Mmac]

lol, wut? Luigi's main combo starter is his nair, nothing else. The fact that he can fit 3 aerials into 1 shorthop, and that his nair has ridiculous priority makes starting up combos childs-play for Luigi. Utilts chain together well into the 40% range before you can escape without good precision on your doublejump or airdodge; even then it's a good trap because airdodging could set Luigi up to grab you and start up another combo. Uair -> Nair is inescapable until KO% on most characters, and his Fair leads into his SideB offstage. (tons of knockback if you get a misfire). His jab game is also amongst the best.

If you're gonna pick on one of Luigi's weakpoints to make Yoshi seem better than he is, pick an actual weakpoint.

What troubles me is that Luigi's Airs I feel have too much knockback, So I don't know how he can string such combos beyonds say 40%. A vid or something might help if you have one. Utilts I could probably agree on, but Yoshi can escape with his DJ Armour I believe. I've never been Uair > Nair'd, so I can't comment. But really? Fair to SideB? That doesn't even sound like that would work on most characters. Yoshi could probably just Airdodge out of the way with the momentum of his DJ

And you're treating me like I'm just mindlessly bashing characters for no reason >_>

 

[Judge Judy]

Luigi's can combo almost as well as Mario, if not as well. Luigi has a lot of kill power over Yoshi, as much priority if not more, and better approach. Fighting Luigi is like fighting a more powerful Mario without the all the crazy techniques.

 

[Matador]

What troubles me is that Luigi's Airs I feel have too much knockback, So I don't know how he can string such combos beyonds say 40%. A vid or something might help if you have one. Utilts I could probably agree on, but Yoshi can escape with his DJ Armour I believe. I've never been Uair > Nair'd, so I can't comment. But really? Fair to SideB? That doesn't even sound like that would work on most characters. Yoshi could probably just Airdodge out of the way with the momentum of his DJ

And you're treating me like I'm just mindlessly bashing characters for no reason >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEZPTOgsc-o
Watch 2:00-2:28. Fair to SideB. Note: he misses, but barely. It can be done, just can't find a vid on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNwTH3w4lSc&feature=related
Watch last stock. 2:00-forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG47fdIACkU&feature=related
Watch 2:17- forward.

 

[Mmac]

Ah... Now I can see how that could work. But I swear that Luigi had WAAAY more knockback in his Fair....

But it didn't really show anything else except for an Falling Nair to Rising Nair. Utilt I already know can combo, but he could probably be escorted out of it with his DJ Armour. Not too sure though, should test.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Slow down for a sec.
Luigi can combo, that's a fact, but like every other character, he finds it difficult to combo Yoshi. I think both of you are forgetting the DJ jugg frames that cancel out anything but true combos (which are few and far between in Brawl). So Luigi will have trouble landing consecutive hits on Yoshi simply because he can jump out of it.

Edit:

Also, just because Yoshi is in the air doesn't mean Lucas has to be.

Moves tend to knock opponents into the air. So if Lucas gets hit by one attack, he'll be forced to defend himself aerially whether he likes it or not.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Actually he cant Mmac. I tried it with my friend who mains Luigi and i couldn't break out at the low percents. At higher percents you can double jump out of but you have to DI right so that he cannot knock you out of it before the heavy armor comes in.

That or I suck with yoshi.
Most likely the latter.

 

[Mmac]

Actually he cant Mmac. I tried it with my friend who mains Luigi and i couldn't break out at the low percents. At higher percents you can double jump out of but you have to DI right so that he cannot knock you out of it before the heavy armor comes in.

That or I suck with yoshi.
Most likely the latter.

Funny thing, We got some mixed results with the DJ when testing the Utilt lock. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but Yoshi doesn't even need to. Yoshi can just Nair out of it!

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh yeah I forgot about that >.<

 

[bigman40]

Shadowlink. You needed a Yoshi player to play against? I live a little closer to you (GA). If you wanna play me then that's fine.

 

[ShadowLink84]

hi bigman. Well I have faced green Ace before and I have beaten him and he has beaten me which is why i tend to move 50-50

I am going to move to South Carolina soon so hey maybe I'll drive down sometime and harass you or something ^_^

I heard from Ace you're really good so I am sure we'll have good matches.

 

[Sosuke]

TL has only 2 bad match ups?
And wtf at one of them being Olimar.

 

[gallax]

some things about pika. first off, it is generally agreed upon in the pika community that falco has a slight advantage in this matchup. enough to have an x on the chart for pika. second, there is a new matchup thread for pika that is much better than the one you have listed there.here's the new link.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174335

 

[bigman40]

hi bigman. Well I have faced green Ace before and I have beaten him and he has beaten me which is why i tend to move 50-50

I am going to move to South Carolina soon so hey maybe I'll drive down sometime and harass you or something ^_^

I heard from Ace you're really good so I am sure we'll have good matches.

Haha. I'd enjoy it if you came down (I'm thinking about hosting my own tourney soon), but I'm about to go to college and that's closer to Flordia (4 hours away from ATL).

I used to say that Yoshi can beat Sonic cause I played Darknes alot back then. Yet, I haven't played any Sonics after a good while.

And yeah, Ace and me went at it in a online tourney and went toe for toe. So, hopefully, I wouldn't dissapoint ya ;3

 

[Popertop]

Dedede has advantage against Wario.
Big advantage.

And I'm pretty sure Pit doesn't have advantage vs Wario.

And ROB - Wario is pretty even too.

 

[Tenki]

Yoshi > Sonic? - I'm not sure, but I'm still debating on this. Pivots Grabs can really hinder Sonic's game, if Yoshi can actually snag to blue blur that is....

Yoshi > Sonic.

But no, it's not the pivot grabs. However, B-air is double sided - it outpriotizes most of Sonic's attacks/approaches, but it can be shieldgrabbed or whatever. Actually, I believe this applies to all of Yoshi's aerials. They either outprioritize Sonic or can be grabbed by him, which, if followed up correctly, is position that Sonic likes to be in.

However, the DJ heavy frames are annoying to deal with, Yoshi's attacks don't clang with falling springs, but destroy them altogether. Yoshi can chaingrab-release Sonic, provided that there aren't any platforms and that he dashgrabs immediately. This means that if you grab Sonic out of a spring (or d-air) from ANYWHERE and just continually grab-release, you can chain this until Sonic is brought off the level and dies. Granted, I haven't had it happen to me, but I had a friend use Sonic while I used Yoshi and asked him to spam springs to try to get out of it, and I accidentally got him out of a falling spring in the middle of the stage and pulled it off. It made me sad inside.

`.`;

Shadowlink. You needed a Yoshi player to play against? I live a little closer to you (GA). If you wanna play me then that's fine.

hallo GA.

I'll play with ya in SL's place.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You canm try timing it so that you can get popped into the air and use a spring to escape.
You sure a spring can't break it?

 

[Mmac]

You canm try timing it so that you can get popped into the air and use a spring to escape.
You sure a spring can't break it?

I tested this alot and no. If Yoshi reacts right away on release, He can grab Sonic before he can regain control.