Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i disagree i feel zelda has the advantage here. lets say the peach baits the up-smash how many times will a good zelda fall for the bait? not many times depending on what eye level peach is floating at zelda's f-smash, up-smash, f-tilt, up-tilt will hit also peach is a ok sized character so lightning kicks are not that hard to land. Also if the peach is floating the lightning kicks should be easier to land. din's fire even if the peach is good enough that they wont hit will be forced to approach and if the peach tries turnips the zelda could hit with din's when the peach is trying to throw or trade hits if the din's is aimed at the flow. also grabing the turnips do to zelda's dash attack is not that tough and zelda can glide toss well. and while peach is trying to recover zelda has a goos chance of hitting with some din's due to peach having to float b/c of bad 2nd jump and while peach is in her up-B she is an easy target.

i know this seems very one sided and i am sure peach has some stuff on zelda but i don't know peach well enough to say what it is she has plus i am just showing why i belive zelda has the advantage on peach

she can crown through Fsmash if she's high enough... and her nair neutralizes din's at a distance.. and she can punish you if you use it too close. Utilt is just too slow to try to use it in that manner. and if peach is on her game... her superior aerials make it hard to lighting kick her

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

yes it might be true that she can get out of f-smash buts thats what f-tilt is for which when done at an angle will hit unless peach is above you but thats when up-smash comes into play, also up-tilt will hit if you surprise them with it. as for nair stopping din's that is true for many characters but a smart/good zelda will mix it up with when they will explode the din's so it will keep the peach on there toes and will hit some of the time. when you say superior aerials i am guessing you mean her f-smash since all her other ones are good but most likely stop the lightning kick so all this means is that the zelda has to be smart with her kick which is true against almost all the characters in the game, and while using the kick well unless you make a mistake all you have to fear is the hits being traded which i would not mind since lightning kick is better. plus peach can have trouble killing at times a problem zelda does not share so even if it is an even match % wise the zelda should still win

so i guess what i am saying is that a good and smart zelda should have the advantage in this fight and unless the peach keeps on constant pressure and the zelda can't adjust i don't see why the peach would have the advantage.

 

[Griffard]

Go ahead and put Ganondorf at a triple disadvantage to everyone so that you are SHOCKED and AWED when I beat your main with him.

In all seriousness though, what high/hi-mid character has the collective best chances against: G&W, Falco, ICs, and Meta? Meta is less important than the others but I need help with this. Marth? R.O.B.?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda counters ROB prety well... but G&W and Marth are bad for her... especially the former

 

[Nintendevil]

Go ahead and put Ganondorf at a triple disadvantage to everyone so that you are SHOCKED and AWED when I beat your main with him.

In all seriousness though, what high/hi-mid character has the collective best chances against: G&W, Falco, ICs, and Meta? Meta is less important than the others but I need help with this. Marth? R.O.B.?

Rob as so much priority. He's got two projectiles (posibaly the best) one of wich a glide toss, Best recovery, verry good air game, combos, and he counters Snake....

Marth, while he doesn't have one specific ground breaking thing. He's got a few combos and Good arials, but I fail to see any huge outstanding thing about him aside from being a well rounded player.

However, the tourney results are showing they do have potential. ROB being B+ rank and Marth A rank, they have a lot to hold them up.

 

[popsofctown]

Go ahead and put Ganondorf at a triple disadvantage to everyone so that you are SHOCKED and AWED when I beat your main with him.

In all seriousness though, what high/hi-mid character has the collective best chances against: G&W, Falco, ICs, and Meta? Meta is less important than the others but I need help with this. Marth? R.O.B.?

"He's the leader of the bunch, you know him well he's finally back, to kick some tail.... his coconut gun, can fire in spurts if he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt, he's bigger, faster, and stronger too he's the first member, of the DK crew. DK, Donkey Kong. DK, Donkey Kong is here"
i love that song.

Marth is a better bet, actually, now that i think about it. I would worry the most about Marth vs. Falco for that case.

DK if beating Falco is important, Marth if beating ICs is important. That's what i'd say. R.O.B. wouldn't do as well as a whole. A lot of those characters nullify his gimp and spike game. (G&W does it just by being so light it doesn't matter)

 

[Griffard]

Rob as so much priority. He's got two projectiles (posibaly the best) one of wich a glide toss, Best recovery, verry good air game, combos, and he counters Snake....

Marth, while he doesn't have one specific ground breaking thing. He's got a few combos and Good arials, but I fail to see any huge outstanding thing about him aside from being a well rounded player.

However, the tourney results are showing they do have potential. ROB being B+ rank and Marth A rank, they have a lot to hold them up.

all right, thanks

"He's the leader of the bunch, you know him well he's finally back, to kick some tail.... his coconut gun, can fire in spurts if he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt, he's bigger, faster, and stronger too he's the first member, of the DK crew. DK, Donkey Kong. DK, Donkey Kong is here"
i love that song.

Marth is a better bet, actually, now that i think about it. I would worry the most about Marth vs. Falco for that case.

DK if beating Falco is important, Marth if beating ICs is important. That's what i'd say. R.O.B. wouldn't do as well as a whole. A lot of those characters nullify his gimp and spike game. (G&W does it just by being so light it doesn't matter)

ya, i play DK, Falco, Marth, and R.O.B. as well as Ganondorf, but I don't think DK fares well against Falco at all, shdl, cgs to stage spikes, lol now that i think of it, that's Falco's best match up! lol um okay i'll look into marth more though thank you

 

[Dark Sonic]

Marth is a great character overall, with very few bad matchups. He's not "amazing" at anything, but he's still "great" at everything. He has all the tools he needs to win, it's just going to be harder for him than the other high tiers because almost all of his matchups are even matchups (as opposed to say, Snake, who either ***** or gets *****)

 

[Browny]

... who ***** snake? It looks like everyones main somehow manages a 50-50 with snake, until they actually play a good one.

 

[Brinzy]

Captain Falcon is a Snake counter!

 

[DanGR]

Go ahead and put Ganondorf at a triple disadvantage to everyone so that you are SHOCKED and AWED when I beat your main with him.

Yes, do that to Olimar as well please.

... who ***** snake? It looks like everyones main somehow manages a 50-50 with snake, until they actually play a good one.

Only Rob, Olimar, and DK have the advantage on him. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying to you.

 

[Onxy]

Everyone is a Snake counter... everyone..

Doesn't MK trash Snake as well?

I also heard that Ivy does well against Snake, but that's 1/3 of a character.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ivysaur > Snake?

o.0 fo rizzle?

I'd like to hear the argument for that.

I believe the only Snake counters are Olimar and DK.

 

[Onxy]

I never said that. I just said she does well.. As in a possible neutral.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I wasn't mocking your opinion or discrediting it, I'm just kinda interested as to what Ivysaur has on Snake, that's all..

 

[Onxy]

I never implied that you mocked it, I just don't want to mislead anyone. I'll post a link if you like.

 

[ROOOOY!]

It's alright, I'll just lurk around the PT boards a bit.

So uh...Bowser vs Sonic? I swear it's in Sonic's favour, his defensive options are punishable.
Anyone got any thoughts on it?

 

[Browny]

*ahem*

ummm, no range, no priority. bawwwww?

yeah that sounds about right. Dont even bother with sonics matchups anymore, all you'll get is ******** answers that make you dumber every time you read them.

btw yes i realise the ridiculous amount of irony in this post

 

[ROOOOY!]

*ahem*

ummm, no range, no priority. bawwwww?

yeah that sounds about right. Dont even bother with sonics matchups anymore, all you'll get is ******** answers that make you dumber every time you read them.

btw yes i realise the ridiculous amount of irony in this post

u 4got no k1ll muvez nub!!11!eleven

Haha yeah I didn't expect the match up to be talked about. Every character board I've seen any mention of Sonic on is 'OMG DEFINITE ADVANTAGE', so I won't argue, people are happier that way.
I actually talked about the Bowser Sonic match-up arguement like 10 pages back though nothing came of it.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah I am about to give up on it except for people like matador which actually argue the case rather than act like complete and utter douches.
A few other people but most people are idiots.

 

[Adapt]

u 4got no k1ll muvez nub!!11!eleven

Haha yeah I didn't expect the match up to be talked about. Every character board I've seen any mention of Sonic on is 'OMG DEFINITE ADVANTAGE', so I won't argue, people are happier that way.
I actually talked about the Bowser Sonic match-up arguement like 10 pages back though nothing came of it.

ZSS has sonic listed as a even matchup IIRC. I can't really speak for other characters right now

Something I have been meaning to look at is taking all 37 character matchup threads and combine them into a single spreadsheet and see what I get. Problem is that only 1/2 of those threads give complete matchup data. Others like the Lucario boards will be done eventually, but some boards don't even have a decent thread.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You probably weren't around when I made the topic about ZSS vs Sonic.

Needless to say there were a number of misconceptions until Delicious cake came in.
I am struggling to not say I love delicious cake because of the obvious implications.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Speaking of Sonic, I hope that our analysis of Sonic in the Yoshi matchup thread was fair. We hoped that 6:4 Yoshi wasn't something unreasonable, since we try to take every character's strengths into account rather than their weaknesses alone.

 

[Tenki]

Speaking of Sonic, I hope that our analysis of Sonic in the Yoshi matchup thread was fair. We hoped that 6:4 Yoshi wasn't something unreasonable, since we try to take every character's strengths into account rather than their weaknesses alone.

I agree with 6:4 Yoshi ;p

I definitely have to work harder against a competent Yoshi player with Sonic, since Yoshi hurts when he has momentum (and can take it easily since his momentum starter, B-air, stops most of Sonic's attacks) and has that chaingrab that pushes Sonic off the edge `.`;

You probably weren't around when I made the topic about ZSS vs Sonic.

Needless to say there were a number of misconceptions until Delicious cake came in.
I am struggling to not say I love delicious cake because of the obvious implications.

I made that thread o_O;

You however, did most of the discussion lol.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

Who was in charge of getting TL's match-ups for this? If you were to go by this chart, TL would easily be one of the best characters in the game. He has much more than two bad match-ups, and he certainly isn't weak against Zelda. There was a thread in the TL boards recently about this match-up, and it was generally agreed that the only problems were Zelda's Side B and her KO power, which can both be avoided by air-dodging and using zair at the right time. This match-up really isn't hard for TL, it could even be an advantage. See http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185397 for details.

TL has a disadvantage against Falco, Marth, MK, and Pikachu. There are others that are debatable, but these four are clearly against TL. Anyone who needs a reason should just look at the characters, it should be obvious.

Some of the match-ups on the chart are really outdated, you should consider just deleting some of the entries. Most of the links that were posted for each character are from April or earlier, and the match-ups then clearly aren't the same as they are now.

 

[Snakeee]

Pride is one of the top Yoshi players...probably THE best and I remember him having trouble against Sonic players.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Who was in charge of getting TL's match-ups for this? If you were to go by this chart, TL would easily be one of the best characters in the game. He has much more than two bad match-ups, and he certainly isn't weak against Zelda. There was a thread in the TL boards recently about this match-up, and it was generally agreed that the only problems were Zelda's Side B and her KO power, which can both be avoided by air-dodging and using zair at the right time. This match-up really isn't hard for TL, it could even be an advantage. See http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185397 for details.

TL has a disadvantage against Falco, Marth, MK, and Pikachu. There are others that are debatable, but these four are clearly against TL. Anyone who needs a reason should just look at the characters, it should be obvious.

Some of the match-ups on the chart are really outdated, you should consider just deleting some of the entries. Most of the links that were posted for each character are from April or earlier, and the match-ups then clearly aren't the same as they are now.

I remember me(and some other people aswell) say that TL's matchup tab is outdated, so as DDD's...

 

[theONEjanitor]

i think this has been mentioned but Yoshi is SEVERELY underrated in this chart. This isn't the Melee version guys, Yoshi is actually good in Brawl.

Ganon is under represented as well.

ehh actually there are lots of problems here

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yoshi isn't a good character. The only reason he is even tourney viable is because he doesn't have any absolutely horrible matchups... the worst he has is three or four 3:7s.
And yeah, the chart is horribly outdated for Yoshi here but I'm too lazy to try to institute any changes.

 

[Mmac]

Everyone on this Chart is pretty outdated. Even some of Snake's and MetaKnight's Matchup's are wrong

 

[Silver Swordsman]

So how is the chart so inaccurate when there's over 3000 replies to this thread?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So how is the chart so inaccurate when there's over 3000 replies to this thread?

B/c the chart wasn't updated that often?

 

[Scala]

Yoshi isn't a good character. The only reason he is even tourney viable is because he doesn't have any absolutely horrible matchups... the worst he has is three or four 3:7s.
And yeah, the chart is horribly outdated for Yoshi here but I'm too lazy to try to institute any changes.

You be crazy. Yoshi is actually good.

And I don't understand, you said he isn't good, and then you said he has reasonable matchups... aren't the matchups what determines the quality of the character? O_o

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

You be crazy. Yoshi is actually good.

And I don't understand, you said he isn't good, and then you said he has reasonable matchups... aren't the matchups what determines the quality of the character? O_o

he just said they were reasonably bad.. i.e. nobody COMPLETELY destroys Yoshi in a matchup... but that doesn;t mean Yoshi has GOOD or even reasonable matchups... he doesn't.

 

[Adapt]

You probably weren't around when I made the topic about ZSS vs Sonic.

Needless to say there were a number of misconceptions until Delicious cake came in.
I am struggling to not say I love delicious cake because of the obvious implications.

I was there, and Tenki made the thread

No one had actually played a good sonic. (I still haven't)
But the fact still remains that the ZSS boards lists sonic as neutral

EDIT: didn't see Tenki post because he's hiding his main again

 

[Judge Judy]

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it...Mario is WAAAAYYYY better than Ike and Ganondorf. Ike has range but his approach is crap, he's easily juggled by Mario, can be gimp almost instantly after just being thrown off the edge, and Fludd ***** almost all of his ground game. Ganondorf is pretty much the same only even easier.

 

[Brinzy]

I wish Yoshi players would quit saying "He's good he's good OOOOH HE IS SO GOOD" and not providing the proof. I want to see action, not words. I am not convinced that he's good. Passable... perhaps, but not good.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ditto. The tactical discussion is littered with 'YOSHI'S THE BEST EVAR'.
And I agree with ZSS and Sonic being neutral. I don't know about the Yoshi match up because I don't play any.

 

[Browny]

So how is the chart so inaccurate when there's over 3000 replies to this thread?

maybe when we get 6000 more, then it will be

>_>

<_<

 

[Rigor_Mortis]

I'd just like to point out that Bowzer's matchups against the Mother boys should be listed as Large Advantage for Bowzer.

Bowzer can infinite grab both of them, I don't see how that puts the ol' boozer at a disadvantage.
Yes it's cheesy and cheap, but he is King Koopa.