Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[Almas]

If Brawl's overpowered defense system is what is causing the problem, then why not attempt to weaken that, instead of blowing other things out of proportion to try and fix it? Even a simple change such as increasing the rate at which shields decay could change gameplay a lot. A change to powershielding wouldn't be unwelcome, either.

 

[zxeon]

We need a shield stun code to see if it would help. The shield is way too powerful in Brawl.

 

[SketchHurricane]

@Yeroc, Falco400

Well, I already agreed sometime in the past that overpowered offense sounded like a good counter to the overpowered defense, so I can understand where your coming from. I guess I'm just being conservative. I would like to see some of the heavies, who look good on paper but still suffer, rise in the ranks. I haven't played any serious S-cancel games, so I shouldn't be writing it off. I just have a feeling the combos might get out of hand when you throw in hitstun. But hey, we're experimenting for a reason, right?

 

[Cemetery]

Lulz, Ganon is amazing with S cancelling and gravity.

 

[SketchHurricane]

If Brawl's overpowered defense system is what is causing the problem, then why not attempt to weaken that, instead of blowing other things out of proportion to try and fix it? Even a simple change such as increasing the rate at which shields decay could change gameplay a lot. A change to powershielding wouldn't be unwelcome, either.

This is more along my line of though. If it's done, I think we'll end up with L-cancel and this. Call me crazy, but my ideology is that if it sounds ridiculous even before it's in the game (S-cancel) then it probably shouldn't be done

 

[Starscream]

I already have the L-canceling and also WDing codes in the game, and it's still extremely defensive.

As long as Brawl's shield is that versatile and strong, the game will always be like this.

We need to make the Perfect Shield timing like it was in Melee, and we need to increase the sheild-stun back to how it was.

As of right now, there's no drawback to shielding, only advantages. And that's a problem.

This I agree with this except changing the perfect shield timing since we have to press the L or R triggers all the way down the shield now.

 

[MuBa]

I'd say disable the stupid perfect shield mechanic...so that way the game becomes more offensive than ever lol.

 

[Kyd]

if only we could have a way for the game to read partial L or R presses so we can have power shield back

 

[leafgreen386]

First off, the gravity thread still hasn't been added to the first post. The gravity thread can be located here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201239

Second off, the "recommended gravity" should be changed to be between 1.15 and 1.20. Much higher and recoveries (most notably sonic) get nerfed too badly.

 

[Alopex]

This I agree with this except changing the perfect shield timing since we have to press the L or R triggers all the way down the shield now.

Even with that it's still extremely easy to Perfect Shield. On top of that, if you change the Y button to shield, then even that little obstacle is gone.

The shield really is too powerful, and the Perfect Shield is too useful.

Increasing shield stun and making shield pressuring more viable won't have any impact if you can still Perfect Shield with that much ease.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

can we hack it so that dodging is a bit easier with with the controller? my fingers hurt from l cancelling

 

[kupo15]

can we hack it so that dodging is a bit easier with with the controller? my fingers hurt from l cancelling

Hopefully we will be getting auto l cancel

 

[zxeon]

First off, the gravity thread still hasn't been added to the first post. The gravity thread can be located here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201239

Second off, the "recommended gravity" should be changed to be between 1.15 and 1.20. Much higher and recoveries (most notably sonic) get nerfed too badly.

Extra gravity isn't the way to go. What we need is faster fall velocity.

 

[M15t3R E]

Extra gravity isn't the way to go. What we need is faster fall velocity.

It would make more since to try and code for that. It wouldn't change Brawl quite as drastically. Yet, it would still help create many new combos.

 

[TonyTH07]

Guys, I wanted to bring this up. I love all the stages on the game, but of course, random explosions, ogres destroying the stage and all. Can't we turn stage hazards off? We'd have a lot more stages to have fun with at that point.

This should of been the option from the start anyway.

 

[Mocha19]

Most people would go for that. I think the stage hazards give the stages their uniqueness, but some should be gone I believe.. Stupid bombs on the Pirate Ship..

 

[leafgreen386]

Extra gravity isn't the way to go. What we need is faster fall velocity.

I agree, but for now changing gravity as a whole is all we can do, so we should at least have the right info in the first post... and the gravity discussion thread is still an important topic. It's where the faster falling thing was brought up and is being discussed, after all.

Guys, I wanted to bring this up. I love all the stages on the game, but of course, random explosions, ogres destroying the stage and all. Can't we turn stage hazards off? We'd have a lot more stages to have fun with at that point.

This should of been the option from the start anyway.

You mean like there should've been an option to turn off tripping? Yeah. But there's no way this is gonna be possible with the limited space we have. Improving gameplay takes a heavy precedence over improving the number of playable stages.

 

[TonyTH07]

Fair enough. Just throwing that out there.

 

[hippyman69]

i also think that fast fall should be altered. when i press fast fall, i want to fast fall. not slow-fall a bit faster than normal. its just plain stupid. all these changes sakurai made to brawl were so unecessary. if a game is deep, competitive players will like it and casuals wont notice anything. instead, he just made it ****, and the casuals still notice nothing.

SAKURAI IS A ***GOT!!!

 

[kupo15]

Exactly. Casuals play casuals, competitive play competitive s. Its their choice if they wanna mingle and the director shouldnt force them to mingle.

:\

 

[hippyman69]

You guys don't seem to understand that being able to push a button at a correct time isn't adding depth. There's absolutely no situtation you WOULDN'T l-cancel (unless you're using an auto-cancelled aerial). There's no downside to it, you just do it so you get less lag for free. Being able to push a button at the right time isn't adding depth, it's adding reflexes.

also, if you bounce onto a platform (pretend ur link using ur dair), you need to alter the timing to cancel. just no auto-cancel. people will miss. trust me.

Most people would go for that. I think the stage hazards give the stages their uniqueness, but some should be gone I believe.. Stupid bombs on the Pirate Ship..

thats just silly

EDIT: also, leave gravity alone along with faster falling rates. too many things get messed up. everyone with bad recoveries will likely not even make it to the stage with the aerial mobility that they have. they will get nerfed considerably. unless i am mistaken and faster falling also increases mobility to compensate. i dont know.

 

[Mocha19]

thats just silly

Yeah.. I know.. I just get killed by them quite a lot, but it's not that big of an issue. I've learned how they travel. That's just an example of a hazard that I would want gone if given the option.

 

[thesage]

It would be nice if we could freeze Pokemon Stadium 2 and WarioWare. They could be neutrals.

 

[zxeon]

It would be nice if we could freeze Pokemon Stadium 2 and WarioWare. They could be neutrals.

It's possible. I just don't know if it can be done without adversely affecting the other stages that move and don't suck.

 

[kupo15]

also, if you bounce onto a platform (pretend ur link using ur dair), you need to alter the timing to cancel. just no auto-cancel. people will miss. trust me.

We dont doubt you. But MK, Samus and a couple others will never miss.

 

[M15t3R E]

EDIT: also, leave gravity alone along with faster falling rates. too many things get messed up. everyone with bad recoveries will likely not even make it to the stage with the aerial mobility that they have. they will get nerfed considerably. unless i am mistaken and faster falling also increases mobility to compensate. i dont know.

Kupo15 responded to the first part of your post which I omitted, but I have something to say about this part.
I believe we need faster fall rates. It might suck for characters like Bowser and DK and possibly a couple more. Overall, it's very necessary. Most characters can recover wayyy too easily in Brawl to the point of ridiculousness and nearly impossible edgeguarding. Idk about you, but I think it should be a tad tougher to recover.
Faster fall rates will also emulate Melee's physics while preserving Brawl's physics more than increased gravity does and it shouldn't create as many bugs. Addtionally, it'll allow for many new combos, especially if we couple it with l-canceling or auto l-canceling.
With all this, characters will be way buffed in both on-stage and off-stage combat.
It'll make for a game which no one can deny takes skill to play, an intense game that is fun to play and watch, and a game that is extremely competitive and will thrive for years to come.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i think what we need to do is either look at smash64 or melee and decide which effect we want to go for. for example, melee has a lot of very low knock back throws. we can try to emulate that kind of effect. i think the problem with brawl is that moves send people too far too quickly. perhaps some kind of reduction of knockback until about 100% can be used? who knows.

 

[hippyman69]

Kupo15 responded to the first part of your post which I omitted, but I have something to say about this part.
I believe we need faster fall rates. It might suck for characters like Bowser and DK and possibly a couple more. Overall, it's very necessary. Most characters can recover wayyy too easily in Brawl to the point of ridiculousness and nearly impossible edgeguarding. Idk about you, but I think it should be a tad tougher to recover.
Faster fall rates will also emulate Melee's physics while preserving Brawl's physics more than increased gravity does and it shouldn't create as many bugs. Addtionally, it'll allow for many new combos, especially if we couple it with l-canceling or auto l-canceling.
With all this, characters will be way buffed in both on-stage and off-stage combat.
It'll make for a game which no one can deny takes skill to play, an intense game that is fun to play and watch, and a game that is extremely competitive and will thrive for years to come.

Hmmm. still i recognise that it is ridiculously easy to recover in this game, but some characters only just make it to the stage. a blanket increase in fall speed will screw up quite a few characters (im thinking tether recoveries as well). im just sayin, chars that have it easy off stage will basically be given a massive boost in comparison to those that only just managed. (falcon will suffer so badly as well).

i think what we need to do is either look at smash64 or melee and decide which effect we want to go for. for example, melee has a lot of very low knock back throws. we can try to emulate that kind of effect. i think the problem with brawl is that moves send people too far too quickly. perhaps some kind of reduction of knockback until about 100% can be used? who knows.

i thought the problem with brawl was that it didn't send you far enough. back in the good old days of 64 it was unusual to live past 120-140%. b4 being killed by an aerial etc. now in brawl, you get characters living up to 130-200 depending on character and DI. its just stupid. brawl needs a crap load of hitstun, s-cancel, greater knockback on SMASHES (remember how they used to do 17-21%?) and aerials (both of these are probably not possible) this will fix the problem methinks.

EDIT: Mainly smashes

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

So no EU/AU codes yet? Aww...

 

[MuBa]

-Well if you want recoveries to be a bit difficult and add edgeguarding then how about we make 1.1x Gravity normal jump and 1.5x Gravity fall and also including added hitstun (as much as smash 64's).

-Since characters love to live around 130-200%, that can be fixed by making all smash attacks into 1.1x damage ratio.

-S-Canceling is perfect for Brawl+ seeing as how the moves of every character are very slow UNLESS there is a way to speed up all of the characters attacks and run speed by X amount of frames without consuming too many lines of codes.

-We need added momentum of our jumps so we're able to actually juggle/combo people.

 

[kupo15]

i think what we need to do is either look at smash64 or melee and decide which effect we want to go for. for example, melee has a lot of very low knock back throws. we can try to emulate that kind of effect. i think the problem with brawl is that moves send people too far too quickly. perhaps some kind of reduction of knockback until about 100% can be used? who knows.

This is why I say smash 64. Brawl has more knockback hits like 64 over melee. Its similar to 64 than melee in a lot of aspects.

i thought the problem with brawl was that it didn't send you far enough. back in the good old days of 64 it was unusual to live past 120-140%. b4 being killed by an aerial etc. now in brawl, you get characters living up to 130-200 depending on character and DI. its just stupid. brawl needs a crap load of hitstun, s-cancel, greater knockback on SMASHES (remember how they used to do 17-21%?) and aerials (both of these are probably not possible) this will fix the problem methinks.

EDIT: Mainly smashes

Yes, it does need a crap load of hit stun but, I don't think s cancel. Dont forget it takes ages to recover from a ground move.

-also including added hitstun (as much as smash 64's).

-We need added momentum of our jumps so we're able to actually juggle/combo people.

Yes

 

[Minato]

I'm just wondering, if we do change the gravity and make characters fall faster, will that make teching more viable/useful?

 

[Makkun]

I would rather not have to mess with Brawl's physics completely, but if it is for the better, I'm all for it!

 

[B.W.]

I'm just wondering, if we do change the gravity and make characters fall faster, will that make teching more viable/useful?

That and it will increase the over all gamplay speed by a decent amount.

Problem is, a normal gravity change kills a lot of recoveries.

 

[Alopex]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but...

Everything you add to Brawl will only add to the power of defensive play until we fix the brokenness of the Perfect Shield and regular shield.

Everyone wants combos to return to Smash Bros. That's the clear priority of the Brawl+ Project, and with good reason.

But if combos are brought back before the shield is fixed, all you'll see are people playing extremely defensively and then punishing like crazy because they'll be able to combo you out of a shield.

Until there's a drawback to being defensive (which there currently isn't), everything we add will just be another tool to use in increasing the effectiveness of camping and defense.

 

[Makkun]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but...

Everything you add to Brawl will only add to the power of defensive play until we fix the brokenness of the Perfect Shield and regular shield.

Everyone wants combos to return to Smash Bros. That's the clear priority of the Brawl+ Project, and with good reason.

But if combos are brought back before the shield is fixed, all you'll see are people playing extremely defensively and then punishing like crazy because they'll be able to combo you out of a shield.

Until there's a drawback to being defensive (which there currently isn't), everything we add will just be another tool to use in increasing the effectiveness of camping and defense.

Agreed. If we can't fix the perfect shield mechanic, we should at least find a way to make the shield decrease at a faster rate.

 

[C_Ferris32]

Ok, this is gonna sound really weird, but if anyone knows what might be goin on here please tell me. Whenever I have a match using the codes, I'll sometimes save it because it was a cool match. I go back and watch it and everything is fine, it plays the match with everything goin like it did in the match. However, if I reset my game, or play the game with different codes in it, go back and watch the video, it's all screwed up! For example, lets say I 3 stocked a cpu, I go back and watch the video after reseting or putting in new codes, and instead of me playing like I did in the actual match, it'll show me doing random attacks, not focusing on my opponent, and eventually running off the edge and suiciding for all 3 lives! My guess is that maybe since the match was recorded with codes activated, if I watch it with different codes activated or no codes at all, it wont register the video properly or something like that. Hopefully some of this makes sense to you guys lol, but if anyone knows what the problem might be advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Shining Blitz]

Brawl replays aren't videos, Ferris. They're replays of the match, with the same random values, CPU AIs, button inputs, etc. When a code is turned on or off, all replays recorded with codes on will replay differently with them off, and vice versa. It can't be fixed.

 

[Rohins]

Agreed. If we can't fix the perfect shield mechanic, we should at least find a way to make the shield decrease at a faster rate.

Samus' smash missile would be kinda broken if the rate shields were damaged were to be increased. Needless to say, I'm all for this idea xD

 

[C_Ferris32]

Brawl replays aren't videos, Ferris. They're replays of the match, with the same random values, CPU AIs, button inputs, etc. When a code is turned on or off, all replays recorded with codes on will replay differently with them off, and vice versa. It can't be fixed.

Ok, my bad, replays. And thanks, I thought that might be what was going on.