.::Captain Douglas Falcon::.

[clubbadubba]

Reverse ledgeguard is more about your character's position when you get hit than the amount of DI you put in. Try to be just slightly above the stage when you get hit.

Not sure what situaiton exactly you mean, but yes dair is frequently used to spike, both out of combos and as an edgeguard.

Really depends on the situation. If I'm fighting ness I'll probably throw him off the stage 9 times out of 10 and force him to recover, but if its pikachu I'll just back throw and take the extra damage you get. Like cobr said, that's up to you. If there's no follow up, then you would only fthrow if you thought you could get an edgeguard or you like your position a lot. If you get nothing out of fthrow, might as well bthrow imo.

In response to 50 minutes ago ninja post:

Also for finishers, if you are facing the ledge and you get a change to grab your opponent, think if upb might work instead. It is stronger than bthrow and would send them forwards (towards the edge in this case). Its not as fast but in certain situations where you can get a good read or maybe just get it guaranteed off of a wall bounce or an fair or a tech chase it is great.

Instead of continuing to try uair chains at high percents when they don't connect, try dairing and then techchasing. You could land another grab, a dash attack, or try the upb techchase I mentioned above. Falcon does get to an awkward percentage where its tough to kill, ESPECIALLY against mario, because you can't combo into any finishers and his finishers generally aren't great approaches. Bair is really strong though, so you can always space with that and if you get a hit at high percent it'll either kill or you get an edgeguard. Best way to avoid these percentages is be able to combo characters from low percentage to death so they don't stick around for that awkward percentage.

 

[JosephZander]

Thanks guys, I guess unless I'll still have a leg up position after a high % Fthrow it's kinda pointless. Now what about non combo mid-high% finishers? Like other chars have a strong usmash with considerably more kb to kill up top, or I like Bair when using pika or fsmash with Kirby but I can't seem to figure out the good pokes to get kills at high %. I just think I rely on throws and uairs too much.

If it's not painfully obvious I'm quite new to the competitive scene and smashboards is an awesome resource and I'd like to take advantage of it so I'm sorry for the amateur questions but everyone's gotta start somewhere, right?

Edit: didn't realize clubbas post had more to it haha so his Bair can work as a one-n-done finisher?

 

[clubbadubba]

yea yea yea more bair. Probably his best spacing attack as well. If you aren't using lots of sh bair already, start doing it. Dash grabbing can only get you so far, believe me I know from experience.

Also if you get an fthrow at mid percent and nothing will combo you've got a few options:

dair- either spike them off the edge, or to the stage where you can tech chase and get another hit

nair- good knockback, can get you in position for an edgeguard

pivot bair or pivot reverse uair- best knockback you can get (reverse uair is best I think if you can get it right?). Using pivot bairs on puff off of fthrow at 0% is a good way to practice. At higher percents of heavier characters you'll want to fthrow pivot double jump bair or reverse uair for maximum knockback

 

[JosephZander]

Awesome that's just what I was looking for. Definitely dash grab way to much. Back the drawing boards to start working in those tips. Clubba coming in strong again hahaha thanks.

 

[prisonchild]

recently I've started to use nair a lot more with falcon, it looks so cool as a finisher

 

[Barbs Jr]

recently I've started to use nair a lot more with falcon, it looks so cool as a finisher

Agreed. I use it instead of dair against people with good DI.

Also, after a bair that sends them right off the edge, I like to run off, FF, and jump Nair back onto the stage.

 

[mixa]

Instead of continuing to try uair chains at high percents when they don't connect, try dairing and then techchasing.

Barbs Jr, this is an example of what clubba said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0Rox8wjaVNs&t=3m37s

After the last Uair, and Up-b would connect, but at 80% and middle stage, it wouldn't kill. So Falcon Dair'd --> Pikachu tech'd in place --> Falcon Dair'd again --> Falcon should've Up-b'd. -- EDIT: if you keep watching, the commentators will say Boom "could've had the death on that one by using the doug hug, but opted for the Dair". Like I said, Up-b wouldn't kill, Boom was right to try the Dair stuff. Know your %s, and stuff.

Also notice how he positioned himself to do the first Dair. He went beyond Pika so the knockback would be to his back, making Pika go down in the top platform. Had he just Dair'd normally, Pika would end up in the side plat, or even worse, in the ground. Which would give Pika a lot more time to react.


If we were talking IRL, this would take 20s to explain and more complicated things could be conveyed. One of the reasons why playing on console with better peeps who are willing to help is nice.

 

[prisonchild]

should've Up-b'd

no



falcon punch

 

[Barbs Jr]

Instead of continuing to try uair chains at high percents when they don't connect, try dairing and then techchasing.

Barbs Jr, this is an example of what clubba said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0Rox8wjaVNs&t=3m37s

After the last Uair, and Up-b would connect, but at 80% and middle stage, it wouldn't kill. So Falcon Dair'd --> Pikachu tech'd in place --> Falcon Dair'd again --> Falcon should've Up-b'd. -- EDIT: if you keep watching, the commentators will say Boom "could've had the death on that one by using the doug hug, but opted for the Dair". Like I said, Up-b wouldn't kill, Boom was right to try the Dair stuff. Know your %s, and stuff.

Also notice how he positioned himself to do the first Dair. He went beyond Pika so the knockback would be to his back, making Pika go down in the top platform. Had he just Dair'd normally, Pika would end up in the side plat, or even worse, in the ground. Which would give Pika a lot more time to react.


If we were talking IRL, this would take 20s to explain and more complicated things could be conveyed. One of the reasons why playing on console with better peeps who are willing to help is nice.

No i understand the concept of dairs to tech chase... I remember watching Isai do some crazy stuff with dair techchases on a match from way back in 07

Although it never occured to me to use the back hitbox of the dair to make sure pika landed on the right platform. That's the kind of stuff I don't have the planning for yet.

 

[JosephZander]

played last night a little and got better with dair and I tried nair and Bair to space and approach more than fair and it seemed to work better depending on the situation since I tend to get hit between the two kicks of fair a lot which I assume to be a spacing and timing issue both of which require some more experience to perfect. I guess once I figure out proper spacing and improve on my movement I'll be a significantly better player. Easier said than done haha. I'm overly aggressive and can't seem to break the habit. Also Any tips to improve movement with falcon?

 

[Barbs Jr]

played last night a little and got better with dair and I tried nair and Bair to space and approach more than fair and it seemed to work better depending on the situation since I tend to get hit between the two kicks of fair a lot which I assume to be a spacing and timing issue both of which require some more experience to perfect. I guess once I figure out proper spacing and improve on my movement I'll be a significantly better player. Easier said than done haha. I'm overly aggressive and can't seem to break the habit. Also Any tips to improve movement with falcon?

make pivots a big part of your game. Try and FF as soon as possible after leaving platforms.

With fair, try and imagine the tips of your feet hitting your opponent. That will help you space better.

Start early on learning people's habits. If someone keeps approaching you a certain way, dash back from that spot when they go for it and then dash forward grab when their hitbox is finished.

oh and usmash is good

 

[clubbadubba]

I wouldn't try to space with nair. Its not disjointed and really only works if they also jump and you can predict when/where they will jump and you get it out before they attack. Bair is better/equal in almost all situations.

As for movement with falcon, are you profficient with pivoting yet? When I was working on pivoting, in between stocks I would just to pivots from one side of the stage to the other to practice. Then try to do pivots into immediate aerials.

 

[JosephZander]

like dashing and turning around? I'm not very proficient in that. What's the best way to do that? I usually end up dash dancing. Between stocks I practice dashdance->sh->aerial->z cancel and that has been helping. Does bair have very low priority? I feel like im the one being hit more times than not. Or am I just late?

 

[Barbs Jr]

like dashing and turning around? I'm not very proficient in that. What's the best way to do that? I usually end up dash dancing. Between stocks I practice dashdance->sh->aerial->z cancel and that has been helping. Does bair have very low priority? I feel like im the one being hit more times than not. Or am I just late?

It has high priority in that its hitbox extends farther than falcons hurtbox when he does it, unlike nair and fair. Try and hit with the tip of his fist.

To pivot, dash one way, then quickly (while still in your dash) slam the stick to the opposite direction, then let it snap back to neutral. Pivot bairs after fthrow at low percents on lighties/floaties is a good way to practice. Also, pivot tipper uairs at mid-high percents on floaties/lighties and high percents on heavies are both good finishers and a good way to practice. Its your only good followup to a fthrow at those percents, i believe.

 

[JosephZander]

Oh that makes sense I see where I was going wrong. Do you use tipper uairs a lot?

 

[clubbadubba]

With sh bair you don't usually want the bair to come out until your opponent runs at you or you are close to landing. It has pretty damn good priority, but its tough to tell where you're going wrong if without videos.

What you're doing sounds like decent practice to start. You really do need to get pivoting down to increase your control. The way I do it is to dash left, quickly slide the joystick back to the centerish and let my thumb slide off of the right side of the stick as it comes to the middle. This give enough force to move the stick past the center, but not so far that I dash again. I dunno how common that method is, but I had trouble doing it initially and that was my solution to it.


tipper/reverse uairs: in combo's (like fthrow -> pivot reverse uair) and in edgeguarding when people try to go high but don't get high enough. Not in the neutral game though

 

[Barbs Jr]

Oh that makes sense I see where I was going wrong. Do you use tipper uairs a lot?

I use them a good amount as an edgeguard against people recovering too high to bair... and also in that instance where you get a high percent grab and where backthrow wouldn't be better (on hyrule for example).

Another thing I would practice just to get a better handle on your character's movement is retreating bairs and retreating bairs. That is, moving your character one way while attacking another. This is easier in melee where you have the c stick to attack and the analog stick for air movement, but rather tough for newer players who don't really think to do it. Not to say that these are what you should always be doing, but they have to be an option for you to space correctly and to be unpredicable. IE retreating fairs used very sparingly can catch really aggro people off guard.

 

[JosephZander]

Well thank you, another thing to add to the tool box hahah

 

[Yobolight]

Tips for Falcon against Fox on Dreamland please?​

 

[Sangoku]

Use the platforms, especially the top one. Learn to dash shield drop, pivot shield drop and fast fall aerials. Be sure your combos end up in edgeguards. Don't miss your edgeguards.

 

[Han Solo]

Alright, Yobo, I just watched our set from Sweet. First off, GOD DAMN GET WRECKED. Secondly, I'm going to ignore our first game because you went Ness, and I don't know how Ness can possibly defeat Fox. Anyways, as Falcon against Fox on DL, you have to discipline yourself to realize that every upsmash and grab should be a stock for Fox. No matter what. Every time Fox goes offstage, that's a stock. If Fox recovers, you're doing something wrong. Against Campy Fox's, you have to work the platforms. If you're getting hit by more than 25% of the lasers Fox is shooting, you're doing something wrong. I don't know what else to say. Grab or upsmash Fox at 0% and he's done.

 

[Yobolight]

Alright, Yobo, I just watched our set from Sweet. First off, GOD DAMN GET WRECKED. Secondly, I'm going to ignore our first game because you went Ness, and I don't know how Ness can possibly defeat Fox. Anyways, as Falcon against Fox on DL, you have to discipline yourself to realize that every upsmash and grab should be a stock for Fox. No matter what. Every time Fox goes offstage, that's a stock. If Fox recovers, you're doing something wrong. Against Campy Fox's, you have to work the platforms. If you're getting hit by more than 25% of the lasers Fox is shooting, you're doing something wrong. I don't know what else to say. Grab or upsmash Fox at 0% and he's done.

LOL yeah I got wrecked, but I just started playing Falcon during THAT weekend so I don't feel bad about it.

I don't miss combos anymore against the character, but Fox destroys me in the neutral game and I can't really touch him it feels like and I get gimped so hard. I don't really see why the matchup is in Falcon's favor. Also traversing the platforms is tricky because Fox Uair/Utilt/Bair/Fair > Falcon Dair/Bair.

If the Fox camps under the left/right platform I feel hopeless....

what should I be to exploiting against Fox?

 

[Han Solo]

Falcon can usually run under SHDL, so if you see a Fox spamming SHDL, run up to them and upsmash/grab. Another good technique Falcon has is fastfall nair from the top platform when Fox is under the side platforms but more towards the center of the the stage, but use it sparingly so Fox doesn't catch on. If you see Fox in the middle of the side platforms, upsmash all day. I'm not too sure on the frames, but the timing for Fox to drop down and dair you or something before you do another upsmash is very hard to pull off. Also, if they don't angle their shield down, you'll probably get a shield poke. I will almost always jump OoS instead of risking getting hit by the upsmash. Generally (IMO), Falcon needs to be facing Fox on the ground (for upsmash and grab) and facing away from him in the air (spacing bairs).

Boom told me that he thinks the matchup is in Fox's favor, so you're not alone in thinking it's a hard matchup. When I play Boom's falcon it seems like he ducks down below my lasers, and waits until he sees an opening which is a good approach.

 

[mixa]

Hey. I play a lot of Falcon (me) vs Mario and have been for some time collecting combo tricks from videos, since comboing Mario is not that obvious. So I thought about doing an video analysis on this MU, not covering everything there is to discuss about it, but mainly combos, finishers, EG, and random tips. I'll try to base everything off real matches. And since I can't go about editing videos once they're out there, I thought about asking for feedback before making it.

What stuff would be good to point out? I remember for example Nintendude, when commentating Isai vs Kikoushi, talking about how if you're gonna spike Mario while he's Up-B'ing, you should be a little vertically ahead of him, as to prevent getting your attack interrupted (without at least a trade).
I feel like stages (not counting Peach's) are up to preference. Is there a consensus on where should Falcon counterpick?

[collapse=Here's what I've got so far]

Combos: 0-Death, w/e-Death. mainly presenting the Bair→Bair→reverse Uair variations.
Combo tricks:

• When near the end of a combo, Dair to a tech-chase instead of just hugging/ending the combo with another Uair.
• F-throw pivot double jump reverse Uair.

Finishers: what attacks should you use when given multiple options (this is more about Falcon than Falcon on Mario)

• Up-B is stronger than Nair, which is stronger than Bair. Players Bair way too much when other options are available.
• Up-angled Fsmash is stronger than normal Fsmash.

Fireballs: Don't shield them when in close-range. Use tilts, jabs, late aerials. Or avoid them.

Edeguard (EG): Your aerials go through the fireballs. <- I haven't got much past this besides some video examples of EGs and the Nintendude tip.

Random:

• Mario's get-up attack doesn't hit if you're right next to him / grab can help you evade it.
• Minimum % in which Mario's Upsmash kills Falcon. Hyrule Wall DI
• %-range to hit a Falcon Punch

DI: Be careful when DIing Mario's Dair when coming back to the stage, even if you DI to his back, he can easily turn around and grab->b-throw.

• Sangoku's DI vid about DIing the down-B[/collapse]
• Request: How to DI Mario's Uair chain?

 

[clubbadubba]

off the bottom of dl a fthrow -> quick double jump above a platform-> uair makes finishing the combo a lot easier.

Mario's that like to do s-hop fireballs are very susceptible to usmash. In fact, mario should have a tough time getting off fireballs in this matchup, especially on DL which is why I prefer DL.

How to di uair: Try to DI onto the ground or a platform if possible and tech immediately to break the chain. This could be either down or up depending on position.

 

[mixa]

off the bottom of dl a fthrow -> quick double jump above a platform-> uair makes finishing the combo a lot easier.

I'm confused, what is the scenario here, f-throw at 0%?

Mario's that like to do s-hop fireballs are very susceptible to usmash

I think you mean full hop or slanted hop?

 

[clubbadubba]

lol idk percent, prolly not at 0 but at some low percents. Just kind of a feel, try it out.

No I mean short hop. Works on nintendude so it must be decent. Falcon is fast. Just keep your spacing so that Mario is never far enough away to pull off a safe short hop fireball.

 

[Sangoku]

Looks like we have the answer for the magnet Doug Hug.

 

[mixa]

OLD
jk, but that's only one frame, it still feels like weird magnet even all throughout the move. Not only in the "oh, I thought he wasn't gonna get me" way, but also because he draws you closer -- which is why you can be thrown against the edge/wall even though you are on stage when hugged.

 

[thegreginator]

What do people suggest for Falcon edgeguarding Mario? I feel like getting around the fireballs is tough. Down dtilt actually work against a properly spaced Mario upB sweetspot? What about dsmash?

Things that I've had success with:

• Pivot edgehog. It should be obvious when Mario is going to try for an upB - very underutilized IMO
• Dair. I've actually had decent success with this trading with upB. Key is to jump behind Mario such that you avoid the hitbox at his fist/head (usually you only get 1% or 2% from the hit)
• Fastfall dair. If you're above Mario and you know he'll upB you can do a fastfall dair which would normally be a suicide, but the upB will trade with it and allow you to recover.

Any other tips?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

grab the ledge or do downsmash(surprisingly effective actually)

 

[mixa]

isn't it that pretty much all attacks work against the up-b if timing is right? Dtilt, Dsmash, Low-Fsmash, etc? Or is that only true if Mario doesn't Up-B in that sweetspot kind of way (y'know, abusing his hitbox and not Up-B'ing glued to the edge-wall)
I'll probably start making my Falcon on Mario video soon, I've got like 30+ clips I could use already. If anyone wants to add anything, pls do.

 

[Ahenobarbus]

Hey guys, I'm a Brawl player/Melee punching bag who just downloaded 64 on my Wii. I'm looking to play Falcon, but I can't find a guide or anything. Could one of you link me to a guide or just tell me a few combos to practice? It would be much appreciated.

Also, being a 64 noob, I have a few general questions: Is there SDI in 64? What CAN you do with the C-stick of a gc controller (since I'm playing on a Wii)? I've been using it to DI just out of habit haha. Can you B-reverse? Anything that I haven't mentioned, but would have no idea about given my Brawl and (slight) Melee experience?

Thanks!

 

[Sangoku]

Hi, welcome to the 64 section! (You've chosen the right game!)

Concerning general principles:
- The only form of DI in 64 is SDI, there's no ASDI and no Mélée/Brawl DI (ie changing the angle at which you're sent).
- What do you mean by B-reverse? If you mean turning around while performing neutral B (such as shooting a laser left while facing right when you jump), the only thing you need to do is input the other direction since there's no side B in 64.
- Concerning the C-stick, I'm not sure how it actually is on a wii, but in the current tournament setting it should be completely disabled. Learn to smash with direction+a and to Uair without jumping. The reason is that it is currently agreed upon that using a C-stick would be cheating (multiple buttons inputted on one press -> macro -> cheating). Maybe Nintendude will change that out of nowhere though, who knows.
- I'd say one of the main difference between this game and the other two is the huge amount of hitstun/shieldstun (you've probably noticed already). So the whole metagame revovles a lot more around real combos (where each hit actually connect with the next). As a consequence, don't get hit (because it leads to combo) and don't shield (because the shieldstun is so huge you'll get grabbed).
- There are other details but I don't think you should worry about them for now. The best way to have a better understanding of this game (except from playing it) is to watch videos of top players (isai, superboomfan, etc.).

Concerning Falcon:
The most basic way to play Falcon is to juggle with his Uair and finish with an UpB. To start the combo, you can either grab or Usmash. Depending on your opponent's fall speed and percentage, you have to mix up between: short hop -> Uair, full hop -> double Uair, full hop Uair -> second jump -> Uair, etc. And finally finish with an UpB. Try that in training mode against various characters to see what's best. Oh I just thought of that video which could help you as well.

Better players could tell you more about all that, but now you have something to start off with

 

[tehz]

There aren't any B-Reverses in 64, as (like Sangoku said) there are no side B moves. Just hit right or left + B to use your B move in that direction (no fancy timing is needed).

The C-Stick acts as the N64's C-buttons when playing on the official VC release (I dunno about any of the old, injected vc wads). This means you can't do smash attacks with the C-Stick, and you can't do directional aerials either. You can jump with it, you can change your character's color on the character select screen with it, and that's about all. (I guess maybe you could use the c-stick for fancy djc things by rolling it, but I've never really tried.)

 

[Maliki]

Any advice for learning fastfall aerials with Falcon?

 

[Sangoku]

I'd like some too!

 

[clubbadubba]

Any advice for learning fastfall aerials with Falcon?

Use the C-stick

 

[Sangoku]

So since nobody answers, I'll try answering myself and hopefully people will tell me if it is the right method or not.

To run off from platform and fast fall fair/bair I do the following (initial position being on the platform): smash left (or right) to run off (stick goes back to original position), smash down left (or down right) and a to fast fall fair/bair. With this method I can maybe do it 5% of the time, compared to 1% with other methods (such as sliding from left to down to left again or from left to down left).

 

[clubbadubba]

Uh yea you should definitely fastfall first (smash down on the stick) then pick the direction you want and press A. Also if you just practice FF uairs all the others will be a piece of cake.