.::Captain Douglas Falcon::.

[Surri-Sama]

Dont under estimate SH Uair either

 

[asianaussie]

and that is why a full hop d-air can work, you can cover more horizontal range than u-smash

meh, u-smash is basically better regardless, but just predictably u-smashing like that isn't helpful

 

[Surri-Sama]

Thats why you SH Uair and depending on % work from there. It's quicker and sets up for more uairs or usmashes or what ever your heart desires!

 

[TheFooL]

F-Tilt is cool, but too much emphasis on it lol...B-Air should be the top of the list for beating fireballs, followed by U-Air/N-Air/F-Air. F-Smash fails because it's so punishable, and hence is an inferior spacing tool. You can't really stay in a range that is too close for fireballing, since that means Mario has a good chance of hitting you with something a lot more dangerous.

Let me try to clarify what I mean when I recommend to Fsmash.

There are a few situations in which Fsmash is very useful. For example, d-airing an opponent at I believe 50-60%, that is on the ground, should bounce them from the ground in hitstun. This is the perfect time to Fsmash, as you can hit them as they fall and before the stun wears off, and this will usually kill.

Fsmash is decently fast, and has ridiculous range, so it's good for spacing. You can be pretty far from an opponent, farther than they may think you can hit them, and still hit them with the tip of the Fsmash hitbox. This is good for hitting opponents as they get back on the stage, it can hit during the get up animation, or it can clank/hit someone who is attacking from the ledge onto the stage.

Mario is a pretty big target, a lot more so than say pikachu. Since the fsmash can be aimed well up or down, it's a lot easier to hit mario or even shield stab him. I'm not saying Fsmash is perfect, far from it. It has a lot of ending lag and if you miss it, can be really punished. I just think that when used intelligently, and with good timing, it's benefits outweigh excluding it from Falcon's repertoire.

 

[ciaza]

I dunno man, at higher level of play people are going to be a lot more likely to avoid the Fsmash, and as a result severely punish you. I would pivot Fsmash as an occasional tool mainly for edgeguarding, and when the probability of getting punished from it is quite low.

I mean Dk's giant punch is decently fast, and as ridiculous range as well, but that doesn't mean it's amazing for spacing, and if you go around spamming it expect to get punished.

EDIT: I do however agree that Fsmash is useful for kills after a dair at higher percents.

 

[StretchNutz]

The best way for Doug to avoid a boomerang is really just to plummet off the edge and FF to your death. There is no other escape.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

i usually try to hog the edge and jump off and b-air vs Fox/Mario's recovery, I find it very useful.

Also, i find a well spaced d-tilt to be the best edgeguard vs Fox.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Jabbing boomerangs as falcon is amazing.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

That's the way it should be done, and also against fireballs.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

is it possible to pivot f-tilt fireballs/boomerangs?

 

[Ocean]

I wouldn't see why not. I'm sure ftilt out-prioritizes both.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Why do you want to ftilt projectiles? It gives more lag than simply jabbing them.

 

[Ocean]

Let me try to clarify what I mean when I recommend to Fsmash.

There are a few situations in which Fsmash is very useful. For example, d-airing an opponent at I believe 50-60%, that is on the ground, should bounce them from the ground in hitstun. This is the perfect time to Fsmash, as you can hit them as they fall and before the stun wears off, and this will usually kill.

if you're going to bounce them up, it's probably better to go for a short hop upair unless you're right by the edge, since that can lead to an up-b which is easier to kill with (granted it's pretty difficult to get in a up-b from a upair at higher percents). an fsmash won't kill most players with good DI, unless they are playing link, jiggs, or someone else with a bad recovery. it's viable, but there's probably other moves that you can/should use after a grounded dair.

Fsmash is decently fast, and has ridiculous range, so it's good for spacing. You can be pretty far from an opponent, farther than they may think you can hit them, and still hit them with the tip of the Fsmash hitbox. This is good for hitting opponents as they get back on the stage, it can hit during the get up animation, or it can clank/hit someone who is attacking from the ledge onto the stage.

Mario is a pretty big target, a lot more so than say pikachu. Since the fsmash can be aimed well up or down, it's a lot easier to hit mario or even shield stab him. I'm not saying Fsmash is perfect, far from it. It has a lot of ending lag and if you miss it, can be really punished. I just think that when used intelligently, and with good timing, it's benefits outweigh excluding it from Falcon's repertoire.

like ciaza said, a lot of people are going to be able to avoid the fsmash and punish you for it. not to mention you can't really follow up from a fsmash; the ending lag is too high to be able to chase after them accordingly. you're right, it isn't a bad move, and it has it's uses, but I feel like you're over-weighing it's abilities a tad.

Why do you want to ftilt projectiles? It gives more lag than simply jabbing them.

to look like a badass.

 

[Surri-Sama]

to look like a badass.

start falcon punching them then.

Badass success guaranteed...winning consistently wont be though

 

[asianaussie]

Falcon doesn't waste energy on those weakass projectiles.

He jabs them with his pinky extended to show his disdain.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

uptilting fireballs is boss as ****

 

[StretchNutz]

FooL's falcon swallows fireballs and stores them up, and then releases them out his urethra when he f-smashes. That's why he likes that move so much.

 

[Ocean]

falcon punching fireballs: taking fighting fire with fire to a whole new level.

 

[blaze3927]

dont bother using any more power than necessary on those piddly farts,
ftilt them to hell

 

[Battlecow]

if you're going to bounce them up, it's probably better to go for a short hop upair unless you're right by the edge, since that can lead to an up-b which is easier to kill with (granted it's pretty difficult to get in a up-b from a upair at higher percents). an fsmash won't kill most players with good DI, unless they are playing link, jiggs, or someone else with a bad recovery. it's viable, but there's probably other moves that you can/should use after a grounded dair.

Mmmm... No. Mario, at dair-fsmash percents? You're not getting a deadly ends-with-upB combo out of SH uair. Fsmash is stylish and fiery.

AAAAAAGH! Survival DI is a melee concept. DI does not significantly raise the chances of smash-attack survival in 64 unless you DI off a wall or something. The distance good DI saves you in those ten frames is NEGLIGIBLE for survival purposes. PLEASE don't offer advice if you're unclear on which game you're advising for . Also, Jiggs' recovery is not particularly bad, and distance-wise horizontally (which is the relevant statistic here, I believe) it's actually one of the best in the game.

He is overestimating its value somewhat, though.

 

[Ocean]

Mmmm... No. Mario, at dair-fsmash percents? You're not getting a deadly ends-with-upB combo out of SH uair. Fsmash is stylish and fiery.

actually, you're right, I was definitely wrong about that. you wouldn't be able to combo mario off a uair at those percents. sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking.

AAAAAAGH! Survival DI is a melee concept. DI does not significantly raise the chances of smash-attack survival in 64 unless you DI off a wall or something. The distance good DI saves you in those ten frames is NEGLIGIBLE for survival purposes. PLEASE don't offer advice if you're unclear on which game you're advising for . Also, Jiggs' recovery is not particularly bad, and distance-wise horizontally (which is the relevant statistic here, I believe) it's actually one of the best in the game.

it doesn't significantly change it, but it DOES change it. just because survival DI is stronger in melee doesn't mean it's useless in 64. I have seen several cases where good DI has saved a persons stock, granted most of them have been what would have been vertical kills rather than horizontal, but still. I may have placed too much value on it originally, but to say it's completely negligible is silly.

vertical recovery is almost always going to carry more weight than horizontal (balance is more important but if were talking strict v vs h, the vertical is better). jiggs can recover pretty far horizontally, but that's it, just horizontal. you need some vertical recovery to be able to survive in most cases.

 

[Sangoku]

Since 64's DI is rather a positional influence (as it was raised by Idontrememberwho), survival DI will only affect by the distance you have DIed. At best, if you were to hardly cross the end of the stage without DI, you might be saved by your DI, but that would be a really lucky situation.
And as you would then be at the very end of the stage I'm not sure if you could make it back anyway.

All this to say: I don't think talking about survival DI is relevent either.

Also jiggs' recovery is pretty good, it has enough vertical distance to survive to a fsmash.

 

[The Star King]

I'm the one who advocated "positional influence".

Heh.

 

[Sangoku]

Okay sorry that I didn't remember ^^.

ALL CREDITS TO STAR KING.

 

[StretchNutz]

the point is there is no DI in this game. There is smash DI which does not influence your trajectory in any way... unless you bounce yourself off a wall.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You say there is no DI then you admit there is smash DI.

Granted, it does not affect your trajectory, but it is DI all the same.

 

[DMoogle]

Smash DI makes a huge difference in this game when it comes to comboing. Someone who is adept at DI will force their opponent to abandon or improvise combos, thus leading to an extended life.

It's not that important if you're fighting Samus, though.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Agreed.

Good slide or smash DI makes drills pretty much obsolete as a combo mechanism. Which, being a yoshi/fox main, annoys me to some extent

 

[ballin4life]

Wow I should use drills more with Yoshi and Fox

 

[The Star King]

Agreed.

Good slide or smash DI makes drills pretty much obsolete as a combo mechanism. Which, being a yoshi/fox main, annoys me to some extent

Although I enjoy both Yoshi and Fox, it doesn't really bother me because I almost never use their dairs lol

Wow I should use drills more with Yoshi and Fox

How did a discussion about DI lead you to this conclusion? Like lolwut, kind of backwards.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Pretty sure he was trollin'

If not, then lolwut

 

[Battlecow]

actually, you're right, I was definitely wrong about that. you wouldn't be able to combo mario off a uair at those percents. sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking.


it doesn't significantly change it, but it DOES change it. just because survival DI is stronger in melee doesn't mean it's useless in 64. I have seen several cases where good DI has saved a persons stock, granted most of them have been what would have been vertical kills rather than horizontal, but still. I may have placed too much value on it originally, but to say it's completely negligible is silly.

vertical recovery is almost always going to carry more weight than horizontal (balance is more important but if were talking strict v vs h, the vertical is better). jiggs can recover pretty far horizontally, but that's it, just horizontal. you need some vertical recovery to be able to survive in most cases.

It would be almost impossible to tell whether or not DI saved someone's stock due to melee-style distance reduction unless the DI was fanTAStic and you really knew what you were looking for. You have the wrong idea entirely about how DI is used in 64. It's for wall-bashin' and combo-scapin', like people have said. For purposes of straight distance reduction, even good DI is indeed negligible.


After a big Fsmash, Jiggs is gonna be nice and high. Horizontal distance matters here. She can survive better than most characters in that situation, although edgeguarding is, of course, always possible.

 

[ballin4life]

How did a discussion about DI lead you to this conclusion? Like lolwut, kind of backwards.

I like never use drills but the fact that kuz even bothered to say that means drills work on most people.

 

[Ocean]

alright, well I was definitely wrong about DI. I apologize.

 

[Olikus]

That blue color on that grey backround was eyepain battlecow! As a Dylanfanboy you should know better!

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^^ I was going to read that, but I didn't want to look at it longer to select the whole text to read it. :S

Back on topic...

I like never use drills but the fact that kuz even bothered to say that means drills work on most people.

There is a surprisingly big amount of people who doesn't use DI to get out of combos.

 

[StretchNutz]

You say there is no DI then you admit there is smash DI.

Granted, it does not affect your trajectory, but it is DI all the same.

There is an aspect of melee called "DI" which does not exist in this game. Hence this game does not have DI.
Smash DI doesn't truly "influence" your "direction," it only translates your character on the cartesian plane of the map. It shouldn't even be called anything-DI cause it's nothing but movement during hitlag.

 

[Charz]

i have been getting into SSB64, and i want to start with doug as a character. Are their any doug videos i should/could watch to help me start?

 

[ballin4life]

superboom, zenyore, me, pretty much any falcon video on youtube should give you a start on the basics

 

[StretchNutz]

search youtube: Isai falcon
watch the first couple results. That's Doug 101.