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Charizard Tactical Discussion

SSJ5Goku8932

SSJ5Goku8932

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I like to dash then quickly side dodge away to an Fsmash,Its a great fake out move.
I use rock smash in the air as a defensive tool,They come towards me,I jump back and quickly air approach with Rocksmash.
 
Ulevo

Ulevo

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Canvasofgrey said:
I don't really see how people think Charizard is a fast mover. Sure, he has a fast dash speed, but his air speed, glide speed, and most of all, his turn-around speed is slow as heck. Anyway, There isn't really a way to move fast with Charizard except to really use his fast moves to your advantage including grabs, jabs, Dtilt, Utilt, Fair, Bair, etc.
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Um... You basically described Meta Knight in a nut shell, excluding slow glide speed. Is Meta Knight slow too?

Case in point, Charizard is actually fast.
 
MaTA

MaTA

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MatisElite
actually charizard is quite fast if so i have to disagree with what canvasofgrey... just have to know his attacks and the person your fighting and know which moves to use at what times. his grab range is insanely awesome and he pretty much overall rocks. His forward smash is probably the slowest move though. Have you ever listened to him when he is drowning? Its like the best sound ever.
 
Ulevo

Ulevo

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Canvasofgrey said:
Nope, Metaknight is just broken, there's the major difference.
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No there's not. All you did was divert the conversation.

The majority of his tilts, aerials, throws and specials all have very fast start up time, and many of them have little lag to speak of. The only aspect of Charizards game that is slow is his walking speed, vertical air speed and horizontal air speed. Those traits are not needed to play a fast Charizard.
 
C

Charizard92

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Ulevo said:
No there's not. All you did was divert the conversation.

The majority of his tilts, aerials, throws and specials all have very fast start up time, and many of them have little lag to speak of. The only aspect of Charizards game that is slow is his walking speed, vertical air speed and horizontal air speed. Those traits are not needed to play a fast Charizard.
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Horizontal air speed is fast. Please kill this Idea now.

In full reality, Charizard is an oxymoron in that he is a fast heavy hitter. Charizard's real problems with speed is his Dsmash, Fsmash, and walk. CHARIZARD ISN'T SLOW!!!

:grrr:
 
Bestiarius

Bestiarius

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His horizontal air speed is fast? In what way? Like, when I think of fast air speed I think of Squirtle. Now, I know he isn't that fast, but is he really all that fast in the air horizontally?
 
Bomber7

Bomber7

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i wasnt really asking for speed. I used the term "well", not "fast". I know in the past I have been able to run upon landing with charz which I'm sure if I practiced that, it could be useful cuz him walking is bad. I just wasnt able to move quite well or defend myself and just kept taking blow after blow. I'm lucky that Charz is a powerhouse or I wouldnt have gotten those kills at low %. In the air I need a little more work all I know is that Nair and Fair can have moves folowed up with virtually no lag. I think I'll just practice the runing upon landing thing and see if I cant work with that.
 
T-block

T-block

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^sh-bair can also finish in a short hop to have no landing lag. It's probably not as useful (no jabs or dtilts) but I've used bair-ftilt with some success before. There's better things to do when you land than just running. I find a lot of people don't expect Zard's nair to autocancel, so I've gotten a jab, tilt or grab a couple times. I'm sure it's been said in this thread before, but sh-nairs are a good approach as long as you aren't predictable about it. Actually I'm sure all of this has been said before, but I'm too lazy to read through 18 pages.

So I got a question... what do you guys use coming onto the stage from the ledge? I'm trying to break the habit of ledgehopped fair, since the opponent is never close enough for me to hit with any of the knockback. Fly has never really worked out for me...I just get ***** in fall/landing lag. Ledgehop nair maybe? Lately I've been resorting to just regular ledge attack >_>
 
Ishiey

Ishiey

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I try to avoid the ledge with charizard... flamethrower and rock smash are my two favorites to ledgehop though. Or just stall with bair.

I have a question too... any grounded footstool combos for charizard? I did a double jump bair only hitting with the first part that sent my airborne opponent into the ground and then footstooled them during the hitstun, so yeah. Not something that should ever actually happen, but it would look cool.

:059:
 
T-block

T-block

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Flamethrower seems like it would come out too slowly... I can only picture Charizard getting sent back out while the opponent only gets hit by a couple flames. I will definitely mess around with ledgehopped Rock Smash though.

As for grounded footstools, I can't think of any. Charizard's dair is not the fastest...
 
Bomber7

Bomber7

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t-block said:
^sh-bair can also finish in a short hop to have no landing lag. It's probably not as useful (no jabs or dtilts) but I've used bair-ftilt with some success before. There's better things to do when you land than just running. I find a lot of people don't expect Zard's nair to autocancel, so I've gotten a jab, tilt or grab a couple times. I'm sure it's been said in this thread before, but sh-nairs are a good approach as long as you aren't predictable about it. Actually I'm sure all of this has been said before, but I'm too lazy to read through 18 pages.

So I got a question... what do you guys use coming onto the stage from the ledge? I'm trying to break the habit of ledgehopped fair, since the opponent is never close enough for me to hit with any of the knockback. Fly has never really worked out for me...I just get ***** in fall/landing lag. Ledgehop nair maybe? Lately I've been resorting to just regular ledge attack >_>
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I like trying flying onto the stage cuz I'm sure you noticed if you perfect land you can smash cancel the landing lag. I prefer fsmash. Though if you need to you can up smash, though I think you can actually lag cancel with any move if you perfect land though Fsmash is best because most of the time you will be persured and they will get a big fsmash in their face and it will be too late for them.
 
Bomber7

Bomber7

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well charz can basically do an infinit grab release though most of the characters I;ve played eventally dodge roll out of it.
 
Steeler

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no grab release is infinite, the only thing that's close is ground break to regrab on ness and lucas. lucas may need to have a wall if he falls too far away from zard normally.
 
Steeler

Steeler

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i like nair for punishing air dodges. if they attempt to air dodge right through you, you will still likely hit.

it's a decent move. it's just that usually a different aerial is better. obviously when the guy is in front of you, fair (or rock smash), bair to punish OoS or cover your backside (and is also your best "approach" aerial), uair to kind of juggle (not really) and punish air dodges. dair is obvious.

nair can edgeguard like fair, but has weak knockback if you don't get the strange sweetspot. nair can punish OoS like bair, but does little knockback and damage, although it has a superior hitbox, so there's a use for it...if you don't want to use one of zard's other **** options (grab, usmash, dtilt, rock smash??, etc). nair can punish air dodges like uair but cannot "juggle", doesn't last as long, and is not as reliable a KO move, but again, nair has a superior hitbox. you can fastfall your uair to kind of achieve the same effect as nair.

so what i'm getting at is if you are in a situation where you have to predict the opponent and want to go for the safe bet, nair is the way to go since it has the best overall hitbox. if a different aerial can work, then you should almost always use that one instead.
 
Ishiey

Ishiey

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Once I had nair semispike, sorta. I hit with the lower part towards the end of the attack, knockback was about 20 degrees below horizontal. Either way, nair is usually my plan B move, as Steeler said.

:059:
 
T-block

T-block

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I think you guys are underestimating nair a bit, and I definitely don't think it's bad enough to say that there's always a better option. When it comes to approaching on the ground sh-nair is a viable option. Autocancelled, it's easier to move from nair into jabs, a dtilt or a grab. Even though it's slower and has less knockback, it's massive hitbox is enough to compensate in my opinion. It's another way for you to approach, and another approach your opponent has to be worried about.

I do agree though, that it's more low-risk-low-reward than the other moves, but I wouldn't dismiss it because of that.
 
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