Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Magik0722]

you're crazy

 

[MaTA]

flamethrower edge hogging spacies ***** hardcore

 

[Chuckles_KSU]

Aslo works wonders on the mother boys... Or anyone who grabs the ledge for than matter, excepting a small handful. (*cough* Ike *choke*)

 

[Steeler]

yeah i'm crazy

 

[T-block]

off stage rock smash is cooler

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

off stage rock smash is cooler

i enjoy this .


really high up rocksmashes are cool they kill early.

 

[Charizard92]

As always, pure insanity is an option. Mostly when it works.

 

[Buuda]

Okay, this needs to get bumped and updated. Right? Somebody mentioned it on the social discussion or the Socratic. I don't remember.

Question- Could a well-spaced SH Rock Smash get through a nado if you aim it towards the top?
If so, I got dibbs on the name.
Uhh... nvm.
There is no name for that, it is what it is. lol. You get what I mean though? Kinda just like slam-dunking a ***** in the face. lol.

 

[Kith]

lol a well spaced Rocksmash will go through a nado, regardless of where you do it

 

[Zigsta]

What Kith said, haha.

My Charizard's playing really different now. I hadn't touched Brawl in about 2 weeks, and when I played today, I found myself doing a LOT more jab canceling than I used to.

 

[Buuda]

But isn't it cooler to slam-dunk it?

Lol. What I meant, though, is that wouldn't it be more likely to pass through it you do, indeed, slam-dunk a hoe?

Oh, and I've been looking into doing super-effective jab-cancelling as Zard for awhile, but I kinda gave up and deemed it as being not very effective. Tips?

 

[Zigsta]

In terms of frame advantages, Charizard's jab canceling is nowhere near as good as a character like Ike, but Charizard's jab canceling is all about keeping your playstyle versatile. Squirtle uses hydrotactics, for example, to keep it unpredictable; Charizard has jab canceling.

It's of note that Charizard's second jab sucks people in slightly. Read their DI properly, and you can grab them and repeat. Jabs typically come out after a grab release or a nair.

Because Charizard's jab canceling tactics aren't exactly frame superior, it's rather easy for his attacks to be shielding with proper timing. If you see people shielding your jabs a lot, eat into that shield and go for a jab canceled Rock Smash.

Jab canceled dtilt is pretty popular. After the second jab, for example, if they DI into you, grab them. If they DI away, dtilt works nicely.

Just try out your options and mess around with them in friendlies. You'll learn to get a feel for mixups and reads.

 

[Buuda]

Thanks, man. Oh, and one more question (doesn't really belong on the Charizard thread, but since Squirtle was mentioned...) : how do you Hydrojab? It is the ONLY hydroplane thing I don't know how to do, and I've tried looking it up and can't find it anywhere. The closest I've come is doing a True Hydroplane jab, but this of course wouldn't be as good as a true Hydrojab (I'd think.). Thanks again for being so helpful, lol.

 

[Kith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PrCcuSqAHU
Around 1:40 I go over it
If you have any more questions about it though, take it over to the Squirtle Discussion Thread :-P

 

[Zigsta]

Quoted from Oak's Laboratory thread:

How to perform- Perform a shellshift, but instead of hitting straight backwards to pivot, hit diagonally backwards-down. Once you're heading the other direction, with the analog stick still held diagonally, hit diagonally backwards-down on the c-stick. To be clear, your analog stick and c-stick should both be pointing diagonally side-down, one on each side, separated by 90 degrees. This can also be done with the analog stick diagonally-up, so your analog and c-stick would form a 180 degree angle instead.

And yeah, if you have any trouble, Kith's video is very helpful.

 

[Kith]

The way stated in Oak's Lab is a little different from the way I do it. They both work though, but I've never been able to get very far with the first method.

 

[Buuda]

The way stated in Oak's Lab is a little different from the way I do it. They both work though, but I've never been able to get very far with the first method.

Well you should get on the Squirtle Tactical and help meh, because the first method isn't make any sense to me and if there's an easier way to do it, I'd love it if you could share. :D

 

[typh]

by the way you guys, my two year old "flamethrower mk to bait him to try and tornado through the fire -> fsmash" trick worked on tyrant last weekend

lmao

so good

 

[@TKbreezy]

omg...I'm so trying that today

 

[Zigsta]

It's soooo good.

 

[Kith]

XD I want to try that now.

 

[Adept69]

What I usually do is use a rock smash in the air and hit them with the shrapnel, then run up and grab them right out of the air.


Also try using side b when playing snakes as squirtle, if they have a nade they will drop it causing it to explode when it hits you, effectively making the move unpunishable

 

[Steeler]

Also try using side b when playing snakes as squirtle, if they have a nade they will drop it causing it to explode when it hits you, effectively making the move unpunishable

that's kind of clever but they can just grab you :s

 

[Toby.]

No sam, it's effectively unpunishable.

 

[Kith]

As super effectively unpunishable as this may be, it really shouldn't be discussed in the Zard Tactical Discussion Thread

 

[CoonTail]

So Ive been working with wave-bouncing flamethrower and RockSmash........it seems like its really useful on opponents as they chase you along with mixing it up so that the two attacks become less predictable. It also aids getting RS counter attacks since the opponent is usually chasing you thus making it much easier to respond to attacks with a wave-bounce RS.

Does wave-bouncing have any other applications or is it just more or less flashy because I don't really see it done by any other PT's.

 

[T-block]

It's pretty useful is you're being juggled. The momentum change from a wavebounce can be enough to get you away from your opponent.

 

[Steeler]

how exactly do you do the 'wavebounce' from typh's mega advanced PT video where charizard is going forward and flamethrowers while moving backward but still facing forward

i do it randomly but idk how to do it for sure

 

[CoonTail]

how exactly do you do the 'wavebounce' from typh's mega advanced PT video where charizard is going forward and flamethrowers while moving backward but still facing forward

i do it randomly but idk how to do it for sure

To do it manually(aka without b-sticking) Steeler for Rock Smash lets say you input side B for w.e side you want to rock smash on. Right after you enter side-b you push the control stick in the opposite direction. Toy around with it a bit and you will find the timing, its kinda fast but if you input it "Melee-status" as I say then the brawl just will not recognize the input and you'll just rock smash on w.e side you put the command in for.

The same goes for flamethrower its just a bit harder because you cant input the direction until after flamethrower has been started so flamethrower wave-bouncing is definitely harder than wave-bouncing Rock smash

 

[Steeler]

ok, it's just a timing thing then. i don't have any problem doing it with rock smash but that's because i buffer everything :s

 

[CoonTail]

I hate buffering so much.....I didn't think 10 frames was that rough but Im overconfident and end up standing there like an idiot because I thought I buffered

 

[Tenki]

ok, it's just a timing thing then. i don't have any problem doing it with rock smash but that's because i buffer everything :s

[Run] > [Jump] > [Tap Back] (release+wait a moment) > [ B ] - [Forward] > ??? > Profit

Like, if you're doing a side-B, you can do the input as [Direction] - [ B ], right?
Doing it with neutral B is almost the same, except it's [ B ] - [Direction].

Input example for doing it facing right:

> [Jump] >

(release) > [ B ] -

The point of tapping back is so the flame thrower starts off facing backwards, letting you tap/face forward to get the B-reversal effect.

​

 

[Steeler]

a masterful display of knowledge. you are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[CoonTail]

Just noticed I did not mention this about a wave-bounced rocksmash. When you wave-bounce rocksmash you actually end up with the fragments or rock hitbox inside charizard. The fragments still project outwards but the hitbox on rock smash actually is where charizard's hurtbox is. I deffinitly see some ways to abuse this guys, but am I the only one who noticed this?

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I hear Rock Smash has a 70-30 advantage over Captain Falcon

Can anyone confirm/deny this rumour?

 

[Buuda]

So Ive been working with wave-bouncing flamethrower and RockSmash........it seems like its really useful on opponents as they chase you along with mixing it up so that the two attacks become less predictable. It also aids getting RS counter attacks since the opponent is usually chasing you thus making it much easier to respond to attacks with a wave-bounce RS.

Does wave-bouncing have any other applications or is it just more or less flashy because I don't really see it done by any other PT's.

I use it all the time. It's really useful. Especially if you pull the whole retreat thing and then SH wavebounce and they're all up in your face and you're all "RAAHHH FLAMETHROWER RARARARARARARAAAA!" and they're all "Oh noooooo! I got caught in the icky part!!!!!!!!!!!" and you're all "HAHAHAHAHA I DON'T NEED A 45 DAMAGE ROCK SMARSH CUZ I JUST GOT A 30 DAMAGE FLAMETHROWER ON YO ASZ" and then you be all like "RAAAAH GRABBBBBZZ!!!" and then all "F-THROWWWWW!!!" and it's all like "HAHAHAHAHA YOU JUST TOOK 42 DAMAGE FOR CHASING ME N000000000000000000B" and then it's all Jigglypuff and you're all like "SPOT-DODGE AND GRAB AND THROW OFF THE EDGE AND CHARGE LASER-LASER-LASER-LASER SHOOOOOP DA WOOOOOOOOOOOPP F-SMASH!" and they're all "OMGGGGGGG I DIEEEEEEDDDDDDDDD" and you're all "BLARHAHAR UDEAD" and they all "GRRRRR I'MMA REST YOU CUZ U SO BIG" and you're all like "UMAD!" and they be all "HAHAHA MY POUND KILLS ROCKSMARSDH" and you go all "FLAMETHROWERRRRRRRRR", etc., and winning, and so on and so forth. Enjoy.

 

[CoonTail]

I hear Rock Smash has a 70-30 advantage over Captain Falcon

Can anyone confirm/deny this rumour?

I heard in WA the power ranked level 9 luigi has a 70-30 advantage over C. Falc but yea phiddlesticks Rock Smash does too leaving zard with a 95:5 the 5 being if falcon is bad *** enough to wall jump falcon punch you

 

[Buuda]

^
That.
.......

 

[T-block]

._. i don't know what to make of that

but the only way flamethrower does 30% is if your opponent fails hard at SDI

 

[CoonTail]

._. i don't know what to make of that

but the only way flamethrower does 30% is if your opponent fails hard at SDI

Lol sorry T-Block thats me responding to the trolling of phiddlesticks....I have to say he is a fun troll tho but just ignore the post it was just a batch of nonsense.

Everything before it about wavebouncing was serious tho just because its prominent in alot of other characters games like lucas and rob to make their characters more unpredictable along with getting better mix-ups so I wanted to see the communities response