Differences Between Dr. Mario and Mario. (Which Italian is better than the other!)

[XxBHunterxX]

Personally i don't think either of the d specials are good, the only reason Mario's tornado was good was because it added to his recovery significantly, in smash 4 they have nerfed how high Dr Mario can go and that still doesn't count for the ending lag that it has when he's in the air making it almost pointless to use.

F.L.U.U.D is still bad because there are very few characters who have predictable recoveries with most being able to stall it out until they're safe or jump straight over it. this may be a personal problem but due to the inaccuracies of the 3ds' slider I tend accidentally use F.L.U.U.D while trying to use my cape, it also happens in the air and since there is no way to cancel the action (aside from spraying it) I end up self destructing.

Honestly I really wanted to main Dr Mario for his move set and his strength but his negatives are way too visible. His recovery is terrible and very predictable, his speed is very lacking making it very hard to punish people unless you're right next to them and his projectile game is really bad compared to Mario's they're slow.

Mario is the better choice in smash 4 and one of my mains. Mario was one of the best characters in Project M and that's because they combined the attributes of both Mario and Dr Mario

 

[TTTTTsd]

Of all the things, Dr. Mario's projectile game is NOT worse. His pills are much better at stage control than Mario's linear fireballs. They beat shorthoppers and you have to run at just the right time to get under them, and that's when Doc can open you up.

OF all the things that is worse, it is not projectiles.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Of all the things, Dr. Mario's projectile game is NOT worse. His pills are much better at stage control than Mario's linear fireballs. They beat shorthoppers and you have to run at just the right time to get under them, and that's when Doc can open you up.

OF all the things that is worse, it is not projectiles.

I tend to short hop with Mario's fire balls which covers the bounce making them just as effective without the slow speed of Dr Mario's, and since Mario has better air controls I can space and bait out attacks. since Dr Mario's pill animation is longer than Mario's fire ball its harder for him to take advantage of hitting someone with it

 

[TTTTTsd]

they don't bounce as high at all when you short hop with him...like at all. People can short hop Mario's projectiles regardless. Even a full jump Mario fireball is easier to get around. Slower = better in the case of controlling space, this is basic Smash.

Edit : Did some basic tests. Mario's fireball is barely affected by hops, Doc can full jump megavitamin and it can bounce high enough to hit people on platforms in Battlefield. Short hop vitamin also goes higher than Mario's regular fireball.

 

[StarLight42]

I tend to short hop with Mario's fire balls which covers the bounce making them just as effective without the slow speed of Dr Mario's, and since Mario has better air controls I can space and bait out attacks. since Dr Mario's pill animation is longer than Mario's fire ball its harder for him to take advantage of hitting someone with it

Dr. Mario's pills are still wayyy better for approaching, and they do more damage. Mario's fireballs don't really bounce at all in this game.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

they don't bounce as high at all when you short hop with him...like at all. People can short hop Mario's projectiles regardless. Even a full jump Mario fireball is easier to get around. Slower = better in the case of controlling space, this is basic Smash.

Edit : Did some basic tests. Mario's fireball is barely affected by hops, Doc can full jump megavitamin and it can bounce high enough to hit people on platforms in Battlefield. Short hop vitamin also goes higher than Mario's regular fireball.

okay did some tests as well and your right they don't go nearly as high, guess i was still thinking of project M.

my point is Mario's fire balls force you to approach him a way you would never approach otherwise, accompany that with the fact that he has greater mobility on ground and air if he manages to hit he could go in with either a dash attack, grab or short hop Nair pushing them back. Doc's pills could be better if he was faster

 

[Bedoop]

My Icon, tho. B3

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's pills are good BECAUSE he isn't fast. They force you to respect them and not approach which lets him close the gap. You can't play him like Mario, I don't see that as a bad thing? Doc's mobility is def. limited but the vitamins force higher approaches and his Uair is just like Mario's.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Doc's pills are good BECAUSE he isn't fast. They force you to respect them and not approach which lets him close the gap. You can't play him like Mario, I don't see that as a bad thing? Doc's mobility is def. limited but the vitamins force higher approaches and his Uair is just like Mario's.

I didn't say anything he had was a bad at all, all I'm saying is that Mario's projectile game is a little more flexible.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Eh, I think they're both good in their own different ways IMO. Mario's are more linear (better gimping fo sho), but Doc's have good use if you utilize Battlefield platforms.

Mario as a character however is def. more flexible as a whole. At least right now. Depending on how meta and stages change stuff, maybe the mobility will be less important? IDK, either way I think their fireballs are for different purposes altogether.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Eh, I think they're both good in their own different ways IMO. Mario's are more linear (better gimping fo sho), but Doc's have good use if you utilize Battlefield platforms.

Mario as a character however is def. more flexible as a whole. At least right now. Depending on how meta and stages change stuff, maybe the mobility will be less important? IDK, either way I think their fireballs are for different purposes altogether.

To be honest I haven't seen another Mario or Dr Mario in for glory mode so I'm only judging my Mario's play experience, I would love to play against a really good Mario or the Doc to learn some new set ups. I agree with you for the most part the meta will change these two but they wont be that far apart unless something like wave dashing is discovered

 

[StarLight42]

To be honest I haven't seen another Mario or Dr Mario in for glory mode so I'm only judging my Mario's play experience, I would love to play against a really good Mario or the Doc to learn some new set ups. I agree with you for the most part the meta will change these two but they wont be that far apart unless something like wave dashing is discovered

For Glory doesn't prove anything. It's just filled with nothing but lag and Little Mac. Wait for tourneys to accurately compare Mario and the Doc.

 

[L9999]

Doc's recovery is garbage.

 

[TiGGesta]

Mario has a superior down air which can combo, pills aren't very good, FLUDD has some use. I would say he's better but by a very small margin.

 

[StarLight42]

Mario has a superior down air which can combo, pills aren't very good, FLUDD has some use. I would say he's better but by a very small margin.

Next time you argue about Mario vs. Doc use valid points please.

UGH, im so sick of this thread.

 

[TiGGesta]

Next time you argue about Mario vs. Doc use valid points please.

UGH, im so sick of this thread.

Just cause you think mario is you don't have to call me out. I'll respect your opinion if you respect mine. I know my explanation was brief and could be better explained.
Points for mario:
Superior down air that can extend up air combos.
FLUDD can be used for gimping enemies. (not great but a buff)
Better recovery with cape
Faster than doc
Points for Doc:
Forward Air can kill
Pills make it harder to aproach
(may be others, I just don't know them yet)
It's too early to tell, but from my point of view Mario is better than doc

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Next time you argue about Mario vs. Doc use valid points please.

UGH, im so sick of this thread.

While I do like both of their D airs Mario's is better for combing and is really fast meaning it can beat a lot of attacks, while the Doc's is really good for applying pressure on shield and since the final hit has knock back its relatively safe.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Points for Doc:
Forward Air can kill
Pills make it harder to aproach
(may be others, I just don't know them yet)
It's too early to tell, but from my point of view Mario is better than doc

If I may...

- Doc's FSmash kills 10% earlier, better than Mario's for killing at low %s, range is worse
- DSmash is better with Doc, its back hitbox is actually also STRONGER meaning the move has no bad hitboxes.
- Up+B is a better OoS option than Mario's, being able to kill at high percents akin to Dolphin Slash
- D-Throw is better position-wise but less combo wise, combo breaking chars like Peach/Link/Toon Link can't hit him out of D-Throw during the endlag due to their position above him(Mario's D-Throw barely launches)
- Better short hop for spacing Bairs on lower shields since Doc's jump is lower.
- Bair is better with Doc due to higher KB scaling.
- Thanks to Cape not stalling, Short hop Cape mixups are possible against people using grounded projectiles. Lets Doc reflect and run up more efficiently.

That's about all I can think of.

 

[TiGGesta]

If I may...

- Doc's FSmash kills 10% earlier, better than Mario's for killing at low %s, range is worse
- DSmash is better with Doc, its back hitbox is actually also STRONGER meaning the move has no bad hitboxes.
- Up+B is a better OoS option than Mario's, being able to kill at high percents akin to Dolphin Slash
- D-Throw is better position-wise but less combo wise, combo breaking chars like Peach/Link/Toon Link can't hit him out of D-Throw during the endlag due to their position above him(Mario's D-Throw barely launches)
- Better short hop for spacing Bairs on lower shields since Doc's jump is lower.
- Bair is better with Doc due to higher KB scaling.
- Thanks to Cape not stalling, Short hop Cape mixups are possible against people using grounded projectiles. Lets Doc reflect and run up more efficiently.

That's about all I can think of.

Good Points!

 

[TTTTTsd]

Again though I think Mario is still better atm but it's just stuff you missed =P. The good Doctor is REALLY different this time around.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

<-- (BTW this guy will be missed)
I never expected this thread to be THIS popular. And the whole reason this was made is to speculate weather which was better based on new mechanics affecting both Marios such as buffs and nerfs, and that's exactly what happened. It just shows how people are this dedicated to see which rains superior in smash bros. or how both can be just as good in a balanced way. I'll let this thread go for as long as the Mods and Admins want.

(Either way, i'm gonna miss you Lucas.)

 

[Kisatamura]

You should probably change this thread name to "Differences between Mario and Dr. Mario (And side discussion about which attributes are better)" :V

But before I play devil's advocate and defend Mario,

Mario has a superior down air which can combo, pills aren't very good, FLUDD has some use.

Both dairs are good, Mario's pops his opponent upwards and starts faster, while Doc's is slower but can still be combo'd into and has better knockback in terms of distance and the direction they are sent (Which is diagonal). Also don't diss pills, because they cover better angles than the fireball. You can still rush and send fireballs, but the only advantage is that they are faster and fall at a really sharp angle when jumping.

So Mario... (I'm not posting anything for Mario that's already been said)

-Dair is easier to use for combos. Just make sure it hits or else you'll get grabbed because of it's poor hitstun
-Fsmash is really good range for Mario
-Fair's a meteor if you're into that stuff. While Doc can gimp with a mix of dair and bair offstage, Mario can at least meteor at low percents.
-This may already sound obvious, but since Mario's nair isn't reverse like Doc's, Mario's approaches with nair can be used more aggressively since he'll deal more damage at the start. If you like using Doc's nair as a meaty or late approach so that your opponent is forced to react to a jumping Doc, then you'll like the reverse nair.

tl;dr Mario is Ken, Dr. Mario is Ryu. Don't believe me, check their UpBs.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mario is Ken, Dr. Mario is Ryu. Don't believe me, check their UpBs.

I made a thread a while ago describing this comparison. And Luigi is Dan Hibiki (except Luigi isn't an obvious
joke).

 

[StarLight42]

Saying Dr. Mario's down aerial is worse than Mario's is just basically low quality bait. Provide an actual argument next time please.

 

[Lilfut]

You guys are really kind of missing the point here.

We can argue all day about whether Tornado or FLUDD is better, but the major differences between Mario with and without a doctorate are pretty incidental to that, and the moves complement their respective characters' playstyles.

Regular Mario is a skill/combo character. His moves come out quick and link together well, and FLUDD is excellent for gimping.

Dr. Mario? What he's got is raw power. His fsmash is ridiculously good at getting KOs if you can land it, and most of his other moves (including aerials) are the same way - including the Tornado. He hits like a truck, and I can particularly see him as an excellent partner for Sonic in doubles, with Sonic building up the damage and Dr. killing. His biggest problems are a lack of good combos and a lack of a meteor smash.

 

[BSP]

F.L.U.U.D is still bad because there are very few characters who have predictable recoveries with most being able to stall it out until they're safe or jump straight over it. this may be a personal problem but due to the inaccuracies of the 3ds' slider I tend accidentally use F.L.U.U.D while trying to use my cape, it also happens in the air and since there is no way to cancel the action (aside from spraying it) I end up self destructing.

You can airdodge out of the charging animation, but that still takes quite some time.

In addition to edgeguarding, FLUDD is good for gaining stage control, forcing the opponent into awkward positions, whiff punishing up B's, and punishing people for retreating to the ledge, helpless or not.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

You can airdodge out of the charging animation, but that still takes quite some time.

In addition to edgeguarding, FLUDD is good for gaining stage control, forcing the opponent into awkward positions, whiff punishing up B's, and punishing people for retreating to the ledge, helpless or not.

Thanks, I've never thought to use FLUDD like that and the air dodging out of it is a blessing and a half

 

[Quillion]

In fact, I think it's disappointing that he's actually slower and stronger than Mario this time around. Unlike the other two "true clones" (paraphrased according to Sakurai), at least Doc had the pre-Brawl Tornado.

He could have been the TRUE return of Melee Mario considering he was more popular than normal Mario in Melee, but making him a Mighty Glacier defeated the purpose of that.

 

[meleebrawler]

He had this distinction in Melee, too. Just that EVERYONE (except Bowser) felt faster.

You really can't expect anyone to be like in Melee at this point without wavedashing,
new edge mechanics etc.

And the main reason Doc was more popular was because he matched up better vs.
space animals (which were EVERYWHERE competitively).

 

[SmashWolf]

His recovery's so bad not even the tornado can make up for it, his faster falling speed leads him to getting combo'd easier while losing his ability to short-hop NeutralBs, he's MUCH slower all around the board, his cape recovery is EVEN worse, his lack of spikes in this game hurt him more than in Melee 'cuz of blastzones, aaaand.... *deep breath*

...although his damage is slightly better on most hard-hitting moves, it's worse on the ones that combo and are SUPPOSED to rack up the damage. His awesome downsmash and Up-B aside, Doctor Mario seems like a blatant downgrade in this game, and I'm terrible with him in comparison to normal Mario.

 

[L9999]

Doc's recovery is garbage, his pills suck and he has lag in almost everything he does. If they brought him back to nerf him what was the point of bringing him back?

 

[StarLight42]

I just use speed equipment to make him faster. Works fine, and he can even combo. Even so, still think Vanilla Dr. Mario is better than Vanilla Reg Mario.

 

[Quillion]

He had this distinction in Melee, too. Just that EVERYONE (except Bowser) felt faster.

You really can't expect anyone to be like in Melee at this point without wavedashing,
new edge mechanics etc.

And the main reason Doc was more popular was because he matched up better vs.
space animals (which were EVERYWHERE competitively).

Actually Doc was exactly as fast as Mario in terms of running. Hell, his air speed is faster.

 

[BSP]

I just use speed equipment to make him faster. Works fine, and he can even combo. Even so, still think Vanilla Dr. Mario is better than Vanilla Reg Mario.

Not sure if you go to tourneys, but if you do, I'm pretty sure equipment is going to be banned.

 

[TTTTTsd]

The problem with Dr. Mario is that while he's a bit worse tthan Normal Mario, you can't really play him like Normal Mario at all. You kinda gotta learn a different kind of Mario when you play him. A more patient one based on hard reads and punishes IMO

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

I've only lost two matches in For Glory mode 1v1s using Dr. Mario - one against a Greninja, the other against a Rosalina. The other matches I've won handily. Most of my opponents used Little Mac, Greninja, Ganondorf, and Wii Fit Trainer. They all attempted to rush, took a bunch of damage from Megavitamins, and got KOd by punishes. Most of these punishes were on rolls with the second hit of Dr. Mario's down smash, which seems to be stronger than the first hit, and others were with the forward smash and the forward air (which can punish bad landings). Up B also stage spikes well, but I try not to follow my opponent off the stage unless they have one stock left and I'm sure I'll KO them.

For recovering, use Soaring Tornado to get the extra vertical distance you need. The Clothesline Tornado is awful (works like Luigi's Cyclone in SSB64 and Melee, just slower and you can't move as far horizontally with it lol), so avoid that at all times. Idk if the regular Super Jump Punch or Explosion Punch is better, though I prefer the basic SJP since it's not terribly weak (kills at like 150%, lower percents near the edges of the stage) and the extra distance helps. Super Jump is an option too for more height, but its lack of a hitbox is really inconvenient sometimes.

I've been warming up a lot to Dr. Mario and I've been doing as well with him as I'm doing with Mario. Dr. Mario has to be played somewhat in the punish style, as implied earlier. He's slow and has powerful finishers, so punishing is generally the way you capitalize on those traits. Dair and Bair should be used exactly like Mario's imo (just be more careful with Dair, since it has longer start up and cool down).

 

[The Pizza Guy]

If you want him to be more like Mario then just use Mario.

 

[StarLight42]

-Ignore post, can't delete it, i don't know why-

 

[StarLight42]

Not sure if you go to tourneys, but if you do, I'm pretty sure equipment is going to be banned.

Wasn't banned in a couple tournaments I have already seen. I wouldn't be surprised if they are, but Doc still will have the edge with the Rising Tornado custom move which pretty much fixes his recovery issues.

 

[Quillion]

If you want him to be more like Mario then just use Mario.

But Mario doesn't have the special Tornado. Only the crappy normal Tornado.