Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

And it still doesn't make any sense.

We all know Sakurai would choose Enzo.

Hell no, he'd clearly choose Child Luka

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don’t think it would be as big a deal as people think. Mortal Kombat has already had a children’s cartoon and the first two movies were really tame.

Yes, but the games themselves, which are very important in the context of Smash, cannot legally be sold in the Japanese market. So as Nintendo is a Japanese company and has CERO breathing down their neck about things like Pyra's thighs, I doubt Nintendo would want the hassle of adding a character from a franchise that cannot legally be sold in the game's home country, especially when the game is rated for CERO A (All Ages).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since there are 11 days until the reveal, and 11 DLC fighters, I have devised a set of 11 challenges; one per character:

Spoiler

11. Down with the Regime! (Piranha Plant) Today
Challenge: Defeat a team of Bowser & Bowser Jr. on Mushroom Kingdom U as Piranha Plant.
Music: Underground Theme - Super Mario Bros.

10. They Never Saw it Comming (Joker)
Challenge: As Joker, win a match on Mementos in Clear Smash.
Music: Last Surprise

9. Face the Dragon (Hero)
Challenge: As Hero, defeat the Ender Dragon Spirit from Minecraft's Spirit Board.
Music: The Hero Goes Forth with a Determination

8. An Ultimate Collect-a-thon! (Banjo & Kazooie)
Challenge: As Banjo & Kazooie, win a match after having defeated an opponent with either the Dragoon, or the Daybreak.
Music: I'm not forcing Spiral Mountain here so just do whatever you like.

7. Team 2D Fighters (Terry)
Challenge: In Squad Strike Stamina Match, beat a team of characters that have been playable in a 3D fighting game (Link, Pikachu, Mewtwo, Sonic, Lucario, Cloud, Simon, Min Min, Sephiroth, and Kazuya), with a team of characters that have been playable in a 2D fighting game that isn't Super Smash Bros. (Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Mega Man, Ryu, Ken, Terry). Terry is of course, required to be on your team.
Music: Kurikinton - Fatal Fury 2

6. The True Weapon Master (Byleth)
Challenge: As Byleth, win in a tourney with fighters that use the following weapons: Sword, Gun, Arm Cannon, Knife, Baseball Bat, Hammer, Stick, Bow, Whip, Wand, Tome, Axe, Bomb, Slingshot, ARM. Some characters fill multiple criteria, but for the purposes of filling the tourney roster, each character can only represent one slot. Also, the character doesn't have to use the weapon as their primary method of attack, they just have to use it. Also also, Byleth doesn't count for any of them.
Music: I dunno if you can even set the music in a tourney...

5. You're the Distance Demon? (Min Min)
Challenge: As Min Min in a one stock match, defeat Byleth without getting it.
Music: Ramen Bowl

4. I...Don't Think This Was How Minecraft: Super Mario Edition Works (Steve)
Challenge: Win a match as Steve in 8 Player Smash free for all against 7 other Super Mario characters in Minecraft World. The only items that are allowed are those from the Super Mario series, but the Final Smash Meter is on for extra chaos.
Music: Halland/Dalarna

3. Big Bad Bosses (Sephiroth)
Challenge: As a team of Sephiroth, Bowser, and Ganondorf, defeat a team of Cloud, Mario, Luigi, and Link on Northern Cave.
Music: Advent: One Winged Angel

2. Gacha Time (Pyra/Mythra)
Challenge: On Cloud Sea of Alrest, defeat an opponent as Pyra/Mythra using only Poké Balls, Master Balls, and Assist Trophies.
Music: Counterattack

1. The Literal Iron Fist (Kazuya)
Challenge: Win as Kazuya in Mishima Dojo in Metal Smash.
Music: Kazuya Mishima, Devil Kazuya

Some are probably easier than others, but I dunno. I think it'll be fun.

 

[Baba]

The only scenario I can see getting an extra character is if there is another Simon/Richter situation of echoes or semiclones that were developed simultaneously. I could see Scorpion and Sub-Zero potentially fitting this.

I think the same thing. It'd be a nice little surprise for the final character to be a Simon/Richter deal.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes, but the games themselves, which are very important in the context of Smash, cannot legally be sold in the Japanese market. So as Nintendo is a Japanese company and has CERO breathing down their neck about things like Pyra's thighs, I doubt Nintendo would want the hassle of adding a character from a franchise that cannot legally be sold in the game's home country.

Yeah they can. WB just chooses not to as they feel it's not worth the effort. It isn't illegal at all, it's like saying Famicom Detective Club is illegal outside Japan because only Japan ever saw physical copies

 

[N3ON]

I don't think they were either. I just imagine there's unforseen issues a lot of people don't recognize which put it at a lower priority.

I think that as well, but I don't think those issues are a matter of complexity. I think it's either a matter of not wanting to allocate resources to it (which would be strange considering how profitable cosmetics are given the relatively light workload against how much you can charge for it) or there's some contractual/legal sticking point with one or some of the parties involved on the roster that implementing costumes widely, perhaps at the exclusion or preference of certain fighters, becomes unmanageable or impassable. Some companies have some very strange stipulations regarding their characters.

Because they give us alt costumes when they don't need to. Like half the DLC has alt costumes. And we get four to six new ones for Miis every wave. Many games have skins as their bread and butter and release dozens upon dozens. It's a very viable source of profit, and this fanbase would eat it up. So of all the possible explanations, I think technical complexity of the addition is not exactly the prime suspect.

 

[7NATOR]

I could see a bonus fighter happening. At the very least, it would explain the purpose of that final major announcement code after FP11's. I wouldn't bet on it personally, but I do believe it is a semi-realistic possibility.

However, this character would almost certainly be a stand-alone DLC added as a last-minute surprise near FP11's release because the dev team had a little extra time and wanted to give one last thank you for supporting Ultimate over such a long period of time, not a full Challenger Pack revealed at another award show two months after FP11.

If we did have a Bonus Fighter, I would imagine it to be something planned in advance, for a character that doesn't need and/or Warrant a Full Challenger pack. I don't think it would be something planned recently, even in the scenario we did get a Bonus Fighter, they would say that on Stream.

Like I say, I don't think they would reveal a Bonus Fighter before all the Fighter Pass characters were known, since they are the main priority, and Wording things in a way to imply the chance of another Fighter might give it away

The other thing to mention is that this Bonus Fighter wouldn't have a full showcase, like with the Base Roster characters and Plant

I’ve seen this idea thrown above by someone so I’m not the original to think off this idea but sakurai said no more new fighters. He never said no more echo fighters.

I wonder if the last fighter is coming with an echo fighter potentially.

if Not then I’m gonna go on a limb and say we’re getting a WOL expansion pass that adds more cutscenes and a side story that evolves around the dlc characters.




on a related kinda note, does anyone think the last character might be complicated on the same level as Steve. I feel as if, if it was a simple character they’d have been revealed in the direct.

The most complicated characters have been Steve, min min and terry who all got practically revealed in standalone sakurai presents (yes terry got revealed in a direct, however it wasn’t even a full trailer, just an announcement he was in development)

not counting hero and byleth as hero was a straight forward moveset, he just had a Bunch of spells and byleth had no other way of being revealed so they were forced into a stand-alone presents. Fp11 on the other hand had the opportunity to be at the September direct.

Technically Byleth could have been revealed at Game Awards, as Three Houses was at that show for People's choice for Game of the year (Not the actual Game of the Year award though). I know people like Imran suggested it was ready to be shown then, and to be honest, Byleth's trailer works much better in that type of Environment than the Seperate Smash Presentation due to the structure of the trailer

Also Min Min and Steve also were revealed in the year where there were no Regular Directs, and unlike with Sephiroth, they couldn't make the timeframe of another event, so they had to be revealed in Smash Presents

We Got Kazuya revealed in a Direct, who I would say besides Steve, is probably the Most Complex Character in the DLC

In any case, I don't expect this character to be as Complex as Steve or Kazuya, at the least in terms of Development and how they Operate. They gonna have their intricacies and Unique mechanics, but I don't think to that extent

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think that as well, but I don't think those issues are a matter of complexity. I think it's either a matter of not wanting to allocate resources to it (which would be strange considering how profitable cosmetics are given the relatively light workload against how much you can charge for it) or there's some contractual/legal sticking point with one or some of the parties involved on the roster that implementing costumes widely, perhaps at the exclusion or preference of certain fighters, becomes unmanageable or impassable. Some companies have some very strange stipulations regarding their characters.

Because they give us alt costumes when they don't need to. Like half the DLC has alt costumes. And we get four to six new ones for Miis every wave. Many games have skins as their bread and butter and release dozens upon dozens. It's a very viable source of profit, and this fanbase would eat it up. So of all the possible explanations, I think technical complexity of the addition is not exactly the prime suspect.

Could be a combination of everything. I just don't think they're not adding more because they don't want to.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If WB ever decides they want to hone in on the Japanese market, they could cut a deal with Nintendo for Smash characters to get MK in the public consciousness over there.

 

[Dukefire]

Weird thing is that while it means the same thing of Ultimate's end, the UK version is this

Spoiler: image

So it strengthen the fact that no bonus fighter will happen. Not to be the party pooper.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think alt costumes are much more complicated than people think. A simple skin might randomly break some random part of the code. You'd have to test interaction after interaction to make sure nothing unintentionally broke.

"What about mods tho?" Listen, I can't claim to be someone who knows much about this stuff, but I think many developers would tell you such simple things can unintentionally break a lot. That's why I think we don't have a ton of costumes.

I'd wager it is, but not really for the reason you suggest.

If the physics or animations applied to the costume had to be changed then there could be some graphical glitches because of it. Otherwise I highly doubt it would do anything programming wise since the change is purely cosmetic, and if you were planning on doing something like this, the code would already allow the extra slots for them.

What is probably a concern though, is the fact that you have to design the costume, make sure its visually clear, and all parties are on board with it (which for some characters, this seems like a monumental task). However, this could all be said about Mii Costumes to some extent (the only extra thing you have to worry about are character mandates that the Miis don't really have).

Gun to my head, I'd say the biggest reason why we don't have DLC alternate costumes is because of just how much memory that would take up; the character select screen takes too long to load all of the renders as it is.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Weird thing is that while it means the same thing of Ultimate's end, the UK version is this

Spoiler: image

View attachment 331467

We ARE getting a WoL Final Battle-themed trailer!! And that’s what the trailer will most likely be titled! YESSSSSSSSS

BIG ASS POGGERS

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'd wager it is, but not really for the reason you suggest.

If the physics or animations applied to the costume had to be changed then there could be some graphical glitches because of it. Otherwise I highly doubt it would do anything programming wise since the change is purely cosmetic, and if you were planning on doing something like this, the code would already allow the extra slots for them.

What is probably a concern though, is the fact that you have to design the costume, make sure its visually clear, and all parties are on board with it (which for some characters, this seems like a monumental task). However, this could all be said about Mii Costumes to some extent (the only extra thing you have to worry about are character mandates that the Miis don't really have).

Gun to my head, I'd say the biggest reason why we don't have DLC alternate costumes is because of just how much memory that would take up; the character select screen takes too long to load all of the renders as it is.

Remember Iggy spazzing out in the reveal trailer? Dumb stuff like that probably happens all the time. Even if it doesn't break the game it takes time and resources away from other issues.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Weird thing is that while it means the same thing of Ultimate's end, the UK version is this

Spoiler: image

View attachment 331467

Bottom text

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah they can. WB just chooses not to as they feel it's not worth the effort. It isn't illegal at all, it's like saying Famicom Detective Club is illegal outside Japan because only Japan ever saw physical copies

Either way, it's not sold in the Japanese market, which is Smash's home country, and with CERO still probably breathing down Sakurai and team's necks even harder about it, when the only other playable character in the game not released in certain regions at this point is Lucas, who Sakurai has said he wouldn't have added if he knew Mother 3 wasn't coming out in the West?

Whichever way you slice it, that's not a good look, especially when coupled with licensing the character, that I imagine a Japanese company like Nintendo would pass on.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Final Battle

Final Destination…..



Master Hand….

 

[Shroob]

I'm someone who can like any character



So why does the thought of ending on a character from League of Legends make my stomach turn soo much



I'm sure the dates are just a funny coincidence and nothing big will come from it......haha...haha....ha.....ha................ha

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm someone who can like any character



So why does the thought of ending on a character from League of Legends make my stomach turn soo much



I'm sure the dates are just a funny coincidence and nothing big will come from it......haha...haha....ha.....ha................ha

I mean

maybe they’ll be fun? That’s all that matters right?

 

[DarkFalcon]

If we ended on another fighting game character I don't think I could be any more whelmed if I tried.

 

[Shroob]

I mean

maybe they’ll be fun? That’s all that matters right?

As someone who played the game for 5 years

Who's heard all the gross behind the scenes in regards to Riot

Tencent as a whole



It's hard to divorce those feelings.

 

[Technomage]

If we ended on another fighting game character I don't think I could be any more whelmed if I tried.

And then people will complain about more Mr. Kickyfoots and call them the next JRPG McSwordguy or the next cartoon character made for babies. XD

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Either way, it's not sold in the Japanese market, which is Smash's home country, and with CERO still probably breathing down Sakurai and team's necks even harder about it, when the only other playable character in the game not released in certain regions at this point is Lucas, who Sakurai has said h seee wouldn't have added if he knew Mother 3 wasn't coming out in the West?

Whichever way you slice it, that's not a good look, especially when coupled with licensing the character, that I imagine a Japanese company like Nintendo would pass on.

CERO wouldn't care though. Like, adding in a scantily clad woman is different than adding a character from a franchise that Japan doesn't see new installments for. ****, the Mortal Kombat movie from this year got released in Japan too. That's a hell of a difference compared to characters who have zero official releases outside of Japan

 

[N3ON]

I don't think it really matters why MK isn't in the Japanese market, the fact itself that it isn't is a huge, probably fatal mark against its chances.

Forget the gore, that can and has been worked around, forget simply having lopsided popularity, if you don't even show up in one of the regions, you're pretty ****ed, imo. And yes I know there have been a couple MK games that made their way to Japan over time, but those are quite few and far between.

 

[Gengar84]

As someone who played the game for 5 years

Who's heard all the gross behind the scenes in regards to Riot

Tencent as a whole



It's hard to divorce those feelings.

I feel you there. I still want a Blizzard character despite the controversy but it would be harder for me to get fully hyped about it after what happened.

 

[subterrestrial]

scorpion/subzero are smash 6 dlc, yall about 8-9 years too early

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we ended on another fighting game character I don't think I could be any more whelmed if I tried.

Both overwhelm and underwhelm come from the older word whelm. Whelm can mean to submerge, or it can also be a synonym for overwhelm. Someone can feel whelmed with happy feelings, for example. And, yes, whelm is still (rarely) used today.

Damn, looks like you'd be excited hyped then

 

[Technomage]

I feel you there. I still want a Blizzard character despite the controversy but it would be harder for me to get fully hyped about it after what happened.

What did Blizzard do in more recent times, now? Did they suck up to the Chinese government again?

 

[7NATOR]

To be honest, I think Mortal Kombat is so Iconic in places that's not Japan (and probably other places I'm missing) that I think it's still a Likely addition to Smash in the future. After all it's literally the highest Selling Fighting game franchise

I do think lack of appeal in Japan though is a limiting factor, but I think one that can be overcome. What might pose an even bigger issue is perhaps Warner Bros themselves. Ed Boon has said time and time again he's down for Mortal Kombat in Smash, but Warner Bros might make things harder perhaps in their stipulations and/or Pricing. Mortal Kombat really isn't seen in Crossovers these days, whey they at least had a few when Midway was in charge of the franchise, plus the graphic nature of the series itself could add onto it. I know that's why Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat haven't crossed over

Plus there's the usual Limiting factors in negotiation with Western Companies, including different Time zones, Languages, culture, Locations, etc.

But Smash has Amassed such a high Pedigree with Ultimate, and with Banjo and Steve, Nintendo, Sakurai, and the Team at Sora Ltd. (Composed of Bandai Namco employees) have gained experience with Working with a Western Company in regards to a Full Playable character, so I think working with Warner Bros is possible also. I don't think we'll see it in this game though, but I think Smash 6 is a very good opportunity to do so, and I think it might be best to start those discussions now rather than later

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Remember Iggy spazzing out in the reveal trailer? Dumb stuff like that probably happens all the time. Even if it doesn't break the game it takes time and resources away from other issues.

Erm...no.

Bowser Jr. is a very strange character though so it wouldn't surprise me if he was bug city until release. There was even a glitch they didn't catch that caused them to teleport and other strange things.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Both overwhelm and underwhelm come from the older word whelm. Whelm can mean to submerge, or it can also be a synonym for overwhelm. Someone can feel whelmed with happy feelings, for example. And, yes, whelm is still (rarely) used today.

Damn, looks like you'd be excited hyped then

Don't expose my lack of English understanding!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What did Blizzard do in more recent times, now? Did they suck up to the Chinese government again?

sued again for labor violations like a week ago

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Nothing can beat Smash 4 Pac when it comes to glitches

 

[Gengar84]

What did Blizzard do in more recent times, now? Did they suck up to the Chinese government again?

The whole sex abuse controversy that led to a female employee taking her own life. It’s pretty messed up.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm someone who can like any character



So why does the thought of ending on a character from League of Legends make my stomach turn soo much



I'm sure the dates are just a funny coincidence and nothing big will come from it......haha...haha....ha.....ha................ha

As someone who played the game for 5 years

Who's heard all the gross behind the scenes in regards to Riot

Tencent as a whole



It's hard to divorce those feelings.

I mean... fair, but personally as someone who played it for about 6+ years and also knows about some of Riot's ******* practices... it's still vastly superior to me compared to a lot of other options lol.

I mean, if I took company and fanbase actions into account, I'd have a problem with so many Smash characters, it would kinda be easier to just not play the game at all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You've said this no less than 5 times, you know.

Calling it now. Hayabusa.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

We ARE getting a WoL Final Battle-themed trailer!! And that’s what the trailer will most likely be titled! YESSSSSSSSS

BIG ASS POGGERS

Im sorry but What part of that said we are getting a final battle WoL trailer?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m just saying it would be HILARIOUS if that 4chan LoL rumor that said the Hollow Knight Mii and all ended up actually true in the end

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Im sorry but What part of that said we are getting a final battle WoL trailer?

Yeah I dunno where she got that from since it's clearly hinting Goldman as our final fighter.

 

[Idon]

"Okay, but I'm just saying Cacomallow hasn't been deconfirmed yet, technically."

 

[Gengar84]

To be honest, I think Mortal Kombat is so Iconic in places that's not Japan (and probably other places I'm missing) that I think it's still a Likely addition to Smash in the future. After all it's literally the highest Selling Fighting game franchise

I do think lack of appeal in Japan though is a limiting factor, but I think one that can be overcome. What might pose an even bigger issue is perhaps Warner Bros themselves. Ed Boon has said time and time again he's down for Mortal Kombat in Smash, but Warner Bros might make things harder perhaps in their stipulations and/or Pricing. Mortal Kombat really isn't seen in Crossovers these days, whey they at least had a few when Midway was in charge of the franchise, plus the graphic nature of the series itself could add onto it. I know that's why Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat haven't crossed over

Plus there's the usual Limiting factors in negotiation with Western Companies, including different Time zones, Languages, culture, Locations, etc.

But Smash has Amassed such a high Pedigree with Ultimate, and with Banjo and Steve, Nintendo, Sakurai, and the Team at Sora Ltd. (Composed of Bandai Namco employees) have gained experience with Working with a Western Company in regards to a Full Playable character, so I think working with Warner Bros is possible also. I don't think we'll see it in this game though, but I think Smash 6 is a very good opportunity to do so, and I think it might be best to start those discussions now rather than later

Those are my thoughts exactly. I personally wouldn’t rule out Scorpion or Sub-Zero from being the final character purely because of MK’s worldwide popularity and sales. There are tons of other potential characters CP11 could be so I wouldn’t call any one character likely but I do think they have a shot.