DMG's Wario Guide Stuff Blah Stuff

[PhantomX]

I almost beat Sethlon at the last tournament... and he's one of the best Falco players out there. It's very even. If they didn't have the CG I'd go so far as to give the advantage to Wario. As it were, a free 50% should they grab you is a huge pain. Falco struggles killing Wario if you're smart though, and avoiding lasers offline while approaching is not that difficult... just don't make the mistake I made of picking Norfair... tremendous freaking stage, lol.

 

[PKNintendo]

No, trust me Yoshi does better than ZSS here. It is soooo hard to land a kill move on Wario for ZSS, it's almost unfair.

Grab release to bair maybe. ZSS has stronger killers than Yoshi IMO. Her forward B is stronger than Yoshi's Smashes. (IIRC) and her back air is REALLY powerful, please don't underestimate her. She has downsmash to paralyze Wario>free grab>Infinite.

Or a grab release up air, OR grab release downsmash, which allows for an easier regrab.

IMO, either Yoshi moves down, or ZSS moves up.

 

[PhantomX]

I'm still of the opinion that Yoshi v Wario is being overrated in Yoshi's favor. Also, I NEVER EVER EVER get hit by ZSS downsmash, that thing's hitbox is tiny... and on the ground.... where you should never be, lol. Also, ZSS usually stales her Side B against Wario, as it's one of her only viable spacing options against him... and sometimes when you're in her face it doesn't even push you to the tip of it, for whatever reason.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'm still of the opinion that Yoshi v Wario is being overrated in Yoshi's favor. Also, I NEVER EVER EVER get hit by ZSS downsmash, that thing's hitbox is tiny... and on the ground.... where you should never be, lol.

After a grab release she can get you with it.

 

[Mmac]

PK Nintendo, there are several differences between ZSS's Grab Game/Infinite and Yoshi's Grab Game/Infinite

1. ZSS's Grab Game is terrible, and one of the worst in the game! Yoshi's Grabs are not terrible, and is actually one of the best in the game.

2. ZSS's practically needs to rely on Stun Damage from a Dsmash/Charged Shot to grab, which Wario shouldn't be hit from often.

3. Yoshi's Grab can be used to intercept Wario's Approaches, ZSS Cant

4. Even if she grabs him, her Infinite is 4 Times harder to do than Yoshi's Infinite. So that effort can be wasted unless she has insane timing.

5. She has to stop jabbing before he breaks, or else it will break the infinite. She does less damage and has to focus more than Yoshi, who can just Jab the night away.

6. They pretty much kill at the same percent on Release (Infact, I think Yoshi kills sooner!), so that doesn't really account to anything.

Your looking at every aspect of her game against Wario, except her grab game, which you claim that's the number one reason why she deals with Wario better than Yoshi. This is not true because her grab game SUCKS!

PS. We lowered the Yoshi vs. Wario matchup to 6.5 (65:35 Yoshi). However I don't see any reason to lower it any lower until there is proof that you can break consistently to the ground.....

PS: Yay, it's been stickied!

 

[PKNintendo]

PK Nintendo, there are several differences between ZSS's Grab Game/Infinite and Yoshi's Grab Game/Infinite

1. ZSS's Grab Game is terrible, and one of the worst in the game! Yoshi's Grabs are not terrible, and is actually one of the best in the game.

2. ZSS's practically needs to rely on Stun Damage from a Dsmash/Charged Shot to grab, which Wario shouldn't be hit from often.

3. Yoshi's Grab can be used to intercept Wario's Approaches, ZSS Cant

4. Even if she grabs him, her Infinite is 4 Times harder to do than Yoshi's Infinite. So that effort can be wasted unless she has insane timing.

5. She has to stop jabbing before he breaks, or else it will break the infinite. She does less damage and has to focus more than Yoshi, who can just Jab the night away.

6. They pretty much kill at the same percent on Release (Infact, I think Yoshi kills sooner!), so that doesn't really account to anything.

Your looking at every aspect of her game against Wario, except her grab game, which you claim that's the number one reason why she deals with Wario better than Yoshi. This is not true because her grab game SUCKS!

PS. We lowered the Yoshi vs. Wario matchup to 6.5 (65:35 Yoshi). However I don't see any reason to lower it any lower until there is proof that you can break consistently to the ground.....

PS: Yay, it's been stickied!

Congratulations!

I see your point but...

Zss can grab release downsmash. Grab release downsmash, e.c.t. She doesn't need to jab.

Thanks for being civil with me, I thought you we're going to *** **** me.

 

[DMG]

PS. We lowered the Yoshi vs. Wario matchup to 6.5 (65:35 Yoshi). However I don't see any reason to lower it any lower until there is proof that you can break consistently to the ground.....

PS: Yay, it's been stickied!

Mmac, I am getting there fast, I've been doing it more in my matches with Bwett and it's to the point where he doesn't get off more than 2-3 regrabs before I break to the ground.

Also, yes I was pleased it got stickied, but IDK who requested for it to be stickied... I wonder if they did that when I linked my thread to my SBR application?

 

[PhantomX]

I know Wario is airborne for a long time... but I doubt he's airborne long enough to hit the floor (and thus the dsmash).

 

[Mmac]

You can Dsmash him on Release I believe, but he'll be too high for a Regrab.

 

[PhantomX]

Mmac, I am getting there fast, I've been doing it more in my matches with Bwett and it's to the point where he doesn't get off more than 2-3 regrabs before I break to the ground.

Also, yes I was pleased it got stickied, but IDK who requested for it to be stickied... I wonder if they did that when I linked my thread to my SBR application?

Any idea how you do it yet?

 

[DMG]

Any idea how you do it yet?

I think it has to do with how fast you can break, combined with a button tap at a certain interval. Don't really know, hard to explain.

 

[Timbers]

I know Wario is airborne for a long time... but I doubt he's airborne long enough to hit the floor (and thus the dsmash).

ZSS' dsmash has a much bigger hitbox than the animation lets on, both horizontally and vertically.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I know I've brought this up before, but Pit vs Wario is 50:50 at best for Wario. There's no way it's 60:40 in Wario's favor, and some would even put the slight advantage in Pit's favor. For the meantime, perhaps 50:50 is a good compromise for both boards.

 

[DMG]

I know I've brought this up before, but Pit vs Wario is 50:50 at best for Wario. There's no way it's 60:40 in Wario's favor, and some would even put the slight advantage in Pit's favor. For the meantime, perhaps 50:50 is a good compromise for both boards.

On what grounds do you believe the matchup is only 50 : 50 for Wario? He's stronger than Pit, can PS or just dodge his arrow easily, a lot of Pit's followups from throws or moves in general don't work cause Wario's aerial movement is too good, and Wario can go out far for a gimp if necessary.

Pit's advantages in the matchup don't seem to compensate well enough for his disadvantages IMO.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

On what grounds do you believe the matchup is only 50 : 50 for Wario? He's stronger than Pit, can PS or just dodge his arrow easily, a lot of Pit's followups from throws or moves in general don't work cause Wario's aerial movement is too good, and Wario can go out far for a gimp if necessary.

Pit's advantages in the matchup don't seem to compensate well enough for his disadvantages IMO.

I'm not too familiar with Pit, so I can't say. But every one of the Pits believes it's even, so I can let them speak. Your thread over on their board should get some discussion soon.

 

[PhantomX]

I personally don't think Wario has too much of an advantage. 55:45 seems good to me. Pit can rack up damage but I usually live forever against them, and the occasional gimps help very much. Only thing gay about them is you have to be careful b/c their fsmash comes out as fast as your grabs.

 

[PKNintendo]

I personally don't think Wario has too much of an advantage. 55:45 seems good to me. Pit can rack up damage but I usually live forever against them, and the occasional gimps help very much. Only thing gay about them is you have to be careful b/c their fsmash comes out as fast as your grabs.

Thats not gay. Gay is not an insult. *Tisk* Tisk*

It's hell to kill Wario using Pit. I've lived until 170% in one match.
Pit doesn't have any grab releases or CG on Wario. I also see it as 6-4. (but don't take my word, I just use Pit occasionally, I use Wario all of the time though.)

 

[Timbers]

Only thing gay about them is you have to be careful b/c their fsmash comes out as fast as your grabs.

It's worth noting the frame of SA you have on grab though.

 

[Ace55]

It's worth noting the frame of SA you have on grab though.

That's not really SA though is it? That's just an attack and a grab trading hits. Which in Melee didn't happen because grabs outprioritized attacks.

 

[PKNintendo]

I don't think Ness matchup vs Wario should change 65-35 sounds right BUT!

The Grab release Fsmash no longer works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy_1ttIB7A0

Okay Now normally you guys would just DI by holding away. Now I present to you Extra Inch DI.

What it does: It makes you move a bit further when breaking out of grabs.

Hold diagonally up and away on the joy stick, then whail on the C stick in the same direction, keep flicking the C stick.

Once that is done Ness will slide drastically further. Video will be up soon...

Ness will fall out of Marth's grab range. Marth can just dashing grab chain you, but that's not as effective.

AGAIN don't take it as LOLZ PK GUYZ THINKS NESS OWNZ WARIO'Z.

Still 65-35, but the grab release Fsmash doesn't work (party dance)

 

[Mmac]

AGAIN don't take it as LOLZ PK GUYZ THINKS NESS OWNZ WARIO'Z.

Still 65-35, but the grab release Fsmash doesn't work (party dance)

Uh..... did you actually test it with WARIO yet?


Wario =/= Marth. Wario is actually a dude

 

[PKNintendo]

Uh..... did you actually test it with WARIO yet?


Wario =/= Marth. Wario is actually a dude

Grins*

Mmac is like a Wario main now.

Ness is inches away from the smash, and it just chips him (red sparks)

 

[Mmac]

Grins*

Mmac is like a Wario main now.

Ness is inches away from the smash, and it just chips him (red sparks)

What if he Stutter Steps?

I like his Games, and as a character. I don't like how he plays though

 

[Ace55]

I like his Games, and as a character. I don't like how he plays though

Are you kidding me, one of the only things I'm really happy with in Brawl is how they made Wario. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but still, Sakurai was having a pretty good day when he designed Wario.

 

[PKNintendo]

Are you kidding me, one of the only things I'm really happy with in Brawl is how they made Wario. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but still, Sakurai was having a pretty good day when he designed Wario.

Even though I main Ness, (addicted to him actually) Wario is in fact the funnest character out there.

 

[Mmac]

Dr.Mario Guy, I got around testing the Instant Grab Break, and... I can't do it....

By I can't do it, I mean that everytime I DO do it, it FREEZES MY ****ING GAME!!!

I really want to know exactly what you are doing and how you are doing this. I kinda want to be wrong, because it it's just mashing buttons as fast as physically possible, then I probably need another Wii....

 

[PhantomX]

I'm not 100% sure how exactly it works. Bwett brought up in another thread that the Dallas MKs do this to him quite frequently when he tries to chaingrab them, so at least it's not just DMG claiming it now XD

 

[Mmac]

I'm not 100% sure how exactly it works. Bwett brought up in another thread that the Dallas MKs do this to him quite frequently when he tries to chaingrab them, so at least it's not just DMG claiming it now XD

Well Bwett said its just simple mashing buttons as fast as you can. When I do it, it does nothing but the usual escape to the Air almost laglessly, or in rare cases, it Freezes my game.

I want to know how it works. Right now it just seems unpractical if it's just simple button mashing.

I am also completely pissed off at Bwett for posting that at one of the most active threads on SWF, especially since nobody knows how it works

 

[PhantomX]

OMG, Discord among the Dinosaurs! D:

 

[DMG]

Mmac, all that I know is that I kinda mash everything really fast, but that the release time is always the same. I've watched them very carefully and Wario gets released to the ground at probably the same time interval each time. I don't know whether it is mashing a particular button enough times, or if it is a timing thing, or whatever. I have wanted to get it recorded though where it is clear that we are on flat ground and not anything involved with sliding or terrain.

 

[Ace55]

Well Bwett said its just simple mashing buttons as fast as you can. When I do it, it does nothing but the usual escape to the Air almost laglessly, or in rare cases, it Freezes my game.

An interesting question would be: if the game freezes during Yoshi's CG who's fault is it. Because that person should lose the game according to SBRrules.

 

[DMG]

Haha, well IMO Yoshi loses for being a dinosaur. Or decide it with port priority, cause dear lord who knows if Sakurai has AMAZING foresight and had to balance that out too with port numbers. >_>

 

[DanGR]

DK: = 65 : 35

I'm assuming you meant

DK: + 65 : 35

It's for my matchup chart.

 

[PhantomX]

Yes, Wario has advantage.

 

[Mmac]

Well I finally figured out the mechanics of the Yoshi Wario Grab Break

From the Anti-Yoshi Grab Break, I'll explain it to the best of my knowledge and as clear as possible.

When Yoshi Grabs people, He doesn't actually "Hold" People, but are actually standing invisible and in Midair a few feet above ground above his head. When Yoshi Grabs someone, he quickly drags them along the ground, then scoops them up to that position. If Yoshi Pummels at the first frames when he enters Yoshi (Which is very common), the first Pummel actually stalls the "Scoop Up" Action, so that the character is still on the "Ground" at that state. This is what causes it is because of the stall (The Stall lasts during the first frames, then after the first few frames after dealing damage). Because the character is still on the ground when he escaped, the game registers it as a Ground Release. The solution is simple, if Yoshi doesn't Pummel, he won't cause a Stall and therefore, Ground Breaks will be physically impossible to do.

TL:DR Version: If Yoshi Doesn't Pummel, a Ground Break is Impossible.

So basically, we can't just not pummel or else it will be an illegal stall. So I guess the strategy here is

Grabbed Under 50% - Combo with Uair, Usmash, Nair, Dair(?), ect.

Grabbed Over 50% - Infinite, therefore Death

This was very tiring to figure out

 

[DMG]

Well I finally figured out the mechanics of the Yoshi Wario Grab Break



So basically, we can't just not pummel or else it will be an illegal stall. So I guess the strategy here is

Grabbed Under 50% - Combo with Uair, Usmash, Nair, Dair(?), ect.

Grabbed Over 50% - Infinite, therefore Death

This was very tiring to figure out

I've broken out at past 50% after just one pummel and stopped it from being infinite, but I know what you are suggesting; a reasonable % cap that Wario could not reasonably break out of in time after one pummel.

Well this does changes things a bit, I knew I was on to something and I'm glad u were able go further in depth in discovering and exploring it better than I could have.

 

[PKNintendo]

Didn't you get my PM's?

Ness can escape the grab release Fsmash!
EIDI

Im not asking for a miracle, but I think Ness at 6-4 makes sense to me. (Ness is nothing like Lucas, so stop comaparing them! It's like saying Mario and Luigi are the same guy)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201575

Analysis on the matchup later to come. (busy)

 

[Mmac]

Yeah, you told me that, but you just said just outside his reach. What if Wario Stutter Steps his Fsmash? You still didn't answer that....

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah, you told me that, but you just said just outside his reach. What if Wario Stutter Steps his Fsmash? You still didn't answer that....

Still won't get you.

See, If Wario had a downsmash that had more range, then he oculd get Ness.

Macky, your all over the place. Boozer main, Wario main, DK main e.ct.

 

[Mmac]

Still won't get you.

See, If Wario had a downsmash that had more range, then he oculd get Ness.

Macky, your all over the place. Boozer main, Wario main, DK main e.ct.

I don't main anyone, I'm just helping with whatever I can find.... or the board is lazy as hell