Down B.

[Katy Parry]

Uhm? Did you play Twilight Princess? She has a rapier, and uses it to battle Link, albeit controlled by Ganon.. But even so, if she HAS a rapier, she SHOULD be able to use it, right?

Yes, I played it.(Duh.) You people don't seem to understand something - Zelda was seen with a sword, and just droped it.

Possessed Zelda - was Ganondorf. Ganondorf uses swords. Zelda has magic. Understand?

The idea of Zelda having Light arrows or a sword is unrealistic. I don't care if she used it at one point in the game. It's not her. She casts spells. Her moveset should be tweaked to become better, but remain the same. That includes Shiek, too. I want Shiek to return because:
1. So little sissys don't complain that an easily used character that doesn't require hard work to master isn't back.

I'm a Zelda main, so I don't give a sh*t about Shiek, but if he's in, which he will be, he needs to stay with Zelda, so she's not left out again.

AND it makes perfect sense to have Shiek as a transformation of Zelda - it just shows Zelda can can kick your stupidass with either brute force or powerful magic. Shiek=Zelda. It's just like an alternate costume for her. It's her.

 

[Titan05]

Sheik has to return. It would be nice if she was her own character though.
Ladies and Gents, its a game the same person can be two different characters on the roster it doesn't need to be logical.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Sheik has to return. It would be nice if she was her own character though.
Ladies and Gents, its a game the same person can be two different characters on the roster it doesn't need to be logical.

I don't care about logic. We're over logic now. I just want either Sheik and Zelda together or no Sheik.

Why? it's not about logic, it's about principle.

 

[Katy Parry]

I don't care about logic. We're over logic now. I just want either Sheik and Zelda together or no Sheik.

Why? it's not about logic, it's about principle.

I agree 100%.

 

[Shadowbolt]

We'll know soon if Sheik is in or not - despite getting Melee characters as veterans, we've yet to see a single unlockable character from the past games - it's only been starters from both Melee and 64. If Sheik is in, we'll likely see her as the next veteran, seeing as she's the final remaining starter from past games. If Falcon or someone else is shown, then we'll know she's out.



And just a note, Mario CAN shoot fireballs without flowers, depending on the game. SMRPG, and the Mario & Luigi games, for instance.

 

[EPX2]

We'll know soon if Sheik is in or not - despite getting Melee characters as veterans, we've yet to see a single unlockable character from the past games - it's only been starters from both Melee and 64. If Sheik is in, we'll likely see her as the next veteran, seeing as she's the final remaining starter from past games. If Falcon or someone else is shown, then we'll know she's out.

Huh? That's not true... if Falcon, Ness, and/or any other characters are revealed before Sheik, that simply means that Falcon, Ness, and/or any characters will have been revealed before Sheik. Nothing more.

 

[Kearnsy]

I main sheik but I dont think she will return (I will love it if she does though!)
I just dont think it she will fit with the current Zelda or with the whole game as a stand alone character.
Rather I think sheik will be seen in other characters with similar traits (Snake or Zero suit samus etc)

As for down B I'd love to see the rapier but wonder how it would be implemented.

 

[crotch protector]

I believe you, and I reckon Sheik (and the Ganon-meister) will both be returning. However, could I have that link anyway please?

If she doesn't, whoever said the AoE Triforce thing would be mad.

Either that or transform into Tetra. <_<

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm

just skip to the last question.

 

[Drake3]

I'm a Zelda main, so I don't give a sh*t about Shiek, but if he's in, which he will be, he needs to stay with Zelda, so she's not left out again.

I'm not sure I understand this part entirely. You want Sheik to return so Zelda's "not left out again?" Left out of what? The limelight? Zelda's not popular in Melee, Sheik is. In melee, they're not the same character, which is why SWF has two separate boards. In theory they're the same character, but in practise they're not.

And Zelda doesn't need to be left out anyway. Brawl could easily fix the numerous problems with this frail princess.

Link's moves haven't really changed, though; they've just been slightly altered. They're still virtually the exact same moves we saw in SSB and SSBM, so it wouldn't be much of an understatement to call those changes minor in that they don't really have a huge effect on the way Link works for the most part.

Yes, they were only slightly altered, but they were still altered with respect to TP.

We wouldn't be able to say the same if Zelda ends up losing Sheik; that takes away a MAJOR component of her entire character. And to do that just because TP Zelda doesn't transform into Sheik (who isn't the Zelda that appears in the SSB series, meaning that there's nothing stopping SSB Zelda from transforming) is ridiculous.

First and foremost, Brawl is a new game. Some things will be kept, and some things will be changed. Mario's play-style has changed with the addition of FLUDD. Zelda could actually be good if she wasn't balancing Sheik. In any case, if Sheik is in the game I won't care, but I do hope they fix their design to be as originally planned as I refuse to play as a broken alter-ego who overshadows the real character.

On topic : I hope they give Zelda
A) Chargeable Light Arrows
B) Rapier
C) New Magic Attack

And I'd like to see how Nayru's Love looks like now, if it's still in the game.

 

[The rAt]

Holy refried crap on a stick, there has been a lot of activity since my last post. For the sake of my sanity, I'm only going to try and refer to a few posts.

I'm pretty sure you were not the only person to have found that site. It was posted by someone on the boards. Also, you answered your own question that was never in question. Sorry I don't like smart alecks.

All that aside, I agree with the rapier idea. Light arrows seem boring unless they somehow make them distinctly different than Pit's.

You're right, I wasn't the only one to notice it, but I didn't want to assume everyone else had seen it. I'm not sure what question you mean or if it was smart aleck (although I do have that tendency at times), so I guess I don't know how to respond to that.
Also, agreed regarding the Light arrows.

GANNON-BANNED =O

@being withheld from the demo part: It makes just as much sense that Zelda wasn't in the demo because they didn't want people to know Sheik was in yet.

A) wtf?
B)Yes, I guess suppose you could be right. Let me correct myself; I believe the reason Zelda was not included in the E for All demo is to keep us guessing at how Sheik will be handled in Brawl.

Uhh... just a thought, could Zelda just been left out of demo for the simple purpose of limiting the number of characters in the demo overall? Sometimes I think things aren't nearly as complication as they are made to look like XD

Of course. In fact every character was probably left out for that reason. So why Zelda, instead of Pikachu? Well, that's a bad example, because if I didn't get my Pikachu fix, someone would die. But you get my point, right? Sure, I may be reading too much into it. But it just seems to me rather convenient that one of the first returning veterans wouldn't be featured in the demo.

I believe you, and I reckon Sheik (and the Ganon-meister) will both be returning. However, could I have that link anyway please?

If she doesn't, whoever said the AoE Triforce thing would be mad.

Either that or transform into Tetra. <_<

My appologies, it was gameinformer, and crotch protector beat me to the punch. I actually saw the story first on NintendoWorldReport, otherwise I would have found it faster.

I thought the timeline was like OoT --> MM --> TP --> TWW --> PH and then the others aren't connected.

Zelda Timelines are a can of worms, man (or woman, as the case may be). It depends on if you ascribe to a dual timeline theory or not (i.e. did Link create an alternate timeline in OoT by timetraveling?). There was quite a long topic on it in the Lighthouse for awhile. As a rule, though, even Zelda games are direct sequels to the odd ones before them; LoZ -> AoL, LttP -> LA, ect.

Self destruct.

Best answer yet.

No. Did you also notice characters with complicated movesets weren't in either? Like Pokemon Trainer(since he's 3 in one), Kirby(his copy move), etc. Zelda was shown in the SSE trailer at E for All, with a computer playing as her. She looks great, although I'm not liking her dress - it's huge.

I was not aware of the SSE trailer. Actually, that kind of backs up my point doesn't it? I mean, why include footage of her being played (in all her complicated glory), but not allow you to actually play her unless they wanted to keep us in the dark about one of her moves? However, that could be read either way, I guess. See previous recantment/modification of statement. Also, recantment probably isn't a word, but I'm okay with that.
Also, I've got it; the dress can be her new down + B.

Yes, I played it.(Duh.) You people don't seem to understand something - Zelda was seen with a sword, and just droped it.

Possessed Zelda - was Ganondorf. Ganondorf uses swords. Zelda has magic. Understand?

The idea of Zelda having Light arrows or a sword is unrealistic. I don't care if she used it at one point in the game. It's not her. She casts spells. Her moveset should be tweaked to become better, but remain the same. That includes Shiek, too. I want Shiek to return because:
1. So little sissys don't complain that an easily used character that doesn't require hard work to master isn't back.

I'm a Zelda main, so I don't give a sh*t about Shiek, but if he's in, which he will be, he needs to stay with Zelda, so she's not left out again.

AND it makes perfect sense to have Shiek as a transformation of Zelda - it just shows Zelda can can kick your stupidass with either brute force or powerful magic. Shiek=Zelda. It's just like an alternate costume for her. It's her.

I get what you're saying, but if Zelda can't use a sword without being possessed by G.dorf, then why did she have it in the first place? Show and tell? Seriously, though, we only saw Zelda transform from Sheik in one game (unless you count Melee, which is an extrapolation of her OoT self), and only in one scene, to boot. We never saw her use any of her magic attacks (Din's fire, ect.) in any Zelda title. We saw her using light arrows on several occasions.
The truth is there are several different Zeldas in the LoZ series. Sheik is a characteristic of one Zelda featured in one game. Specifically, the Zelda of OoT, who besides family resemblance, has nothing to do with TP Zelda, who they are using for this game. So, I must disagree, I don't think it makes sense for TP Zelda to change into an incarnation of her ancestor, OoT Zelda.
Then again, Sakurai might just throw logic out the window. Who knows? To be frank, I don't really care one way or the other. I'm just trying to get at what makes the most sense and make a prediction about it.

I don't care about logic. We're over logic now. I just want either Sheik and Zelda together or no Sheik.

Why? it's not about logic, it's about principle.

Not to sound like a jerk, but principle is more convincing when backed with logic. At least if you want people to agree with you.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm

just skip to the last question.

Good job digging that one up.

Anyhow, I wish I had more suggestions regarding a new down + b (should it be needed), but I haven't played Twilight Princess in too long to come up with more than what's been said.

 

[crotch protector]

look guys, its simple. sheik will return because without sheik in the game, smash bros loses the ninja cred that SHE brought to Melee. see? simple.

NINJARZ 4 BRAWL!!!!

 

[xianfeng]

Pirates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ninjas.

 

[PyrasTerran]

There's a video running around where Mario and Zelda are fighting primids in the beginning of Subspace Emissary demo.. but the **** player playing as Zelda didn't use any of her special moves.. -_-;

 

[Noshiee]

I dont know if you can see it, but this is from the vid of the subspace emisary, taken at 2:31, if you dont know, the video is 2:31 minutes long, I dont know how I did it, but I managed to take it at the very last half (or less) second.
If you look closely, you can see Zelda (next to the yellow shine) surrounded with white thingys, similar to the "white thingys" of her Down B (Sheik) in Melee, could that be she transforming?
Also, if you hear really closely, you can hear the first 3 or 4 music notes of the LoZ "I-made-a-treasure-chest-appear-from-nowhere" song (the one that plays when Zelda uses her Down B in Melee).
The video is in the E 4 All thread, look for it, and try to see it, and hear it .

 

[Drake3]

I assumed that to be Nair. And I really don't hear anything, but I'm not saying it can't be Transform. Is it just me or is that CPU Zelda kicking alot of ass? Never seen the CPU do a double lightning kick before.

And Ethan's right, her dress is gigantic.

 

[Noshiee]

Zelda jumping before transforming

zelda with the shiny effects of transformation (3 primids below here)

zelda before landing (transforming)

zelda starting transforming

you can see zelda transforming here (with primids surrounding her)

1.zelda getting smashed away before she could transform
2.sheik jumping away (still shiny becouse of the transformation), though you can see her purple top, so is unlikely.
3. Zelda canceled the transformation and jumped away(?)

maybe...just maybe...

 

[Katy Parry]

I'm going to listen to that now.

I know, Zelda top-tier!! If that computers good, imagine me...*drools*

I'm disappointed about her dress. I mean, I love the dress, but it's too thin...

Ah oh well. I still love my Zelda!

Awesome job on the pics. You should make a thread about it.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Not to sound like a jerk, but principle is more convincing when backed with logic. At least if you want people to agree with you.

You can disagree all you want... it's not as if you guys are making the game

 

[Katy Parry]

Omfg I Heard The Change!!!

 

[The rAt]

You can disagree all you want... it's not as if you guys are making the game

Touche.

Also, those are some friggin blurry pics. I guess I'll just take folks word on it.

 

[Geist]

Regardless of any proof, Nintendo has made last minute changes before...
So proof or not, as soon as i assume anything there is a chance of me being 50% wrong. Soooo....Ill just wait here in my little corner for the time being.:freak:

 

[Circus]

[lots of blurry pictures]

I won't say you're seeing things. . . but I'll say you're looking too hard at what could be nothing. You could tell me you see Bowser in that picture and I wouldn't be able to prove you wrong because that whole battle is just a cluster**** of pixels.

As to the "transformation sound" at the end of the video you're talking about, if I'm thinking of the same one, that's like half a ding of a noise. It could be anything. It could be the start of a magic attack. It could be the cameraman's camera conking out. It could be a kid's phone alarm. It could be someone practicing Beethoven's fifth on a piano that just happened to be at the convention in order to prep for their recital this weekend.

It's really not worth looking into very deeply, so I don't know why anyone is.

 

[Noshiee]

I won't say you're seeing things. . . but I'll say you're looking too hard at what could be nothing. You could tell me you see Bowser in that picture and I wouldn't be able to prove you wrong because that whole battle is just a cluster**** of pixels.

As to the "transformation sound" at the end of the video you're talking about, if I'm thinking of the same one, that's like half a ding of a noise. It could be anything. It could be the start of a magic attack. It could be the cameraman's camera conking out. It could be a kid's phone alarm. It could be someone practicing Beethoven's fifth on a piano that just happened to be at the convention in order to prep for their recital this weekend.

It's really not worth looking into very deeply, so I don't know why anyone is.

again, Im not saying it IS indeed Zelda transforming, I'm just saying it COULD be. If peope thing it IS indeed, then just let them be, I'm hoping it is indeed zelda transformining, I want sheik so bad!!!

 

[Drake3]

I don't think the noises are coming from that particular battle anyway. None of the sound effects match up.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Ah. This isn't the place to discuss Sheik's return/not return. The thread is going on the hypothetical situation where Sheik is not a part of her moveset, so just go with it regardless of what you think.

I think it'd be nice if her specials were switched around a fair bit. It's been heavily implied in videos that she keeps her teleport move, and Din's fire has been shown... but what I would rather have is

Up B: Farore's Wind, but with more purpose. Maybe when she's being teleported, a gust of wind would harmlessly blow the enemy in that direction as well, so if well done you could mess with your enemies a bit instead of just... recovering.

Down B: Nayru's Protection, this time instead it would be more of a counter move, where a very solid crystal covers her making her invincible. Projectiles get destroyed, and anyone who attacks up close gets stunned.

Neutral B: Din's fire, except completely different. In Ocarina of time it was much more epic, with the huge radial explosion. So, I'd like Zelda to charge it up for as long as you hold the button down and then set off an explosion surrounding her based on how long it was charged.

Side B: Light Projectile Attack. Any of the options, doesn't really matter... I personally don't like the idea of her taking out a bow or a sword from nowhere. Sure, Link does it all the time, but it'd seem weird if anyone else really did it. Hey, I wouldn't mind her just using Melee's version of Din's fire, except with an explosion of light energy instead (if it was improved).

All in all... I agree with the quote in Drake's signature, she's the embodiment of the triforce of Wisdom, why is she using her body so much when she's got much stronger attacks with magic?

 

[the grim lizard]

I have a question: If it's perfectly acceptable to assume she is some sort of mage and has learned the arts of magics like Din and Farore and whatnot as all princess of that kingdom do...why is it not also acceptable to think that those princesses could also be trained in the ways of the Sheikah? After all, she does have the tribe's emblem on her cloak in TP. I'm just saying, it's perfectly possible.

Not to mention that Aonuma said he submitted a Sheik model to Sakurai for Brawl.

 

[PyrasTerran]

MY idea of a good down-B replacement:

Similar to her triforce light attack in Twilight Princess, Zelda summons a triforce light directly beneath her, the beams of light shoot upwards to about her height and do damage to whoever touches if. If she does this from the air, the ground lights up directly below her. A neat air-bomb idea.

 

[SirroMinus1]

if sheik is in she will easily be an unlockable. idk what zeldas Down be will be

 

[Drake3]

I have a question: If it's perfectly acceptable to assume she is some sort of mage and has learned the arts of magics like Din and Farore and whatnot as all princess of that kingdom do...why is it not also acceptable to think that those princesses could also be trained in the ways of the Sheikah? After all, she does have the tribe's emblem on her cloak in TP. I'm just saying, it's perfectly possible.

Not to mention that Aonuma said he submitted a Sheik model to Sakurai for Brawl.

I thought they died out with Impa.

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

Zelda's transformation into sheik is the assistance of magic similar to goku's supersaiyan transformation and she rarely uses physical attacks. far different as in comparison to dr. mario because plumbing was marios way of paying for med school. sheik is zeldas defense as to where she used her training to help her survive and hide against ganon for as long as possible.

 

[4 Aces]

I'm going to disagree with the idea of Sheik being gone for reasons I will explain later in my post. However, I will agree that there is a possibility that Sheik could be her own character and Zelda will need a new move. Personally, I'm going to agree with the rapier suggestions. Just seems to make sense with TP Zelda.

If anyone really wants me to, I suppose I can see if I can dig the link up, but it was up on IGN for awhile, so I don't think it should be hard to find.

Andy

Ooo! Ooo! I'd like to see this! I'm too lazy/busy to look for it though.

If Sheik is in, then she should still be Zelda's transform. I don't really want her to return, but I won't whine if she does. But- Sheik CAN'T be her own character. She's Zelda. She'll always be Zelda. That would be having OoT Zelda and TP Zelda in Brawl, I'd rather have her transform and deal with the discontinuity than having Sheik separate.

Of course, I'd rather hope she will not return, even if I like to play the Zelda/Sheik game sometimes.

Well, I think she could be her own character, because, I mean, Young Link got a spot in the Melee right along side Link, so it could be possible.

Me personally, I'd like to Sheik to be in Brawl; I think she's a really cool character. I wish Lyn was in as well - instead of being an assist trophy.

 

[4 Aces]

I'm going to disagree with the idea of Sheik being gone for reasons I will explain later in my post. However, I will agree that there is a possibility that Sheik could be her own character and Zelda will need a new move. Personally, I'm going to agree with the rapier suggestions. Just seems to make sense with TP Zelda.

If anyone really wants me to, I suppose I can see if I can dig the link up, but it was up on IGN for awhile, so I don't think it should be hard to find.

Andy

Ooo! Ooo! I'd like to see this! I'm too lazy/busy to look for it though.

If Sheik is in, then she should still be Zelda's transform. I don't really want her to return, but I won't whine if she does. But- Sheik CAN'T be her own character. She's Zelda. She'll always be Zelda. That would be having OoT Zelda and TP Zelda in Brawl, I'd rather have her transform and deal with the discontinuity than having Sheik separate.

Of course, I'd rather hope she will not return, even if I like to play the Zelda/Sheik game sometimes.

Well, I think she could be her own character, because, I mean, Young Link got a spot in the Melee right along side Link, so it could be possible.

Me personally, I'd like to see Sheik in Brawl (playable); I think she's a really cool character. I wish Lyn was in as well - instead of being an assist trophy.

Edit: Whoops, didn't mean to double post.

 

[Katy Parry]

Double post?

 

[Loooooni]

sorry ethan but the post you just made is just as useless anyways I actually sadly think shiek is going to return

 

[Katy Parry]

Why is it sad?

 

[HipsterKid]

I don't see it as sad either.

I love Sheik.
Not near as much as Zelda but it's not like that matters.

Anyways... Sheik for Brawl! :/

 

[Aninymouse]

If Sheik is no longer tied to Zelda's B moves, then I believe it would go something along the lines of:

B^: Faore's Wind

I liked the idea of a gust of wind blowing in the direction you use it, actually. Very creative. Also, similar physics seem to be already implemented in the PictoChat stage.


B>: Din's Fire

Though I like the idea of the light magic being a replacement to the fire (I believe we were shown something like this in the 15 second trailer, right?), we can all agree that this is currently a fairly ineffective move in general and not even very powerful. I liked the idea that the distance could be set and that charging upped thew power or AOE instead.

Bv: Nyaru's Love

The move as-is is fine, though a longer duration would be interesting. Changing the reflection properties slightly wouldn't hurt. Many characters so far have shown counter/reflect-type specials.

Neutral B: Triforce of Wisdom

A chargeable attack that starts out strong but focused and becoming larger but weaker over time. Two ideas come to mind: a simple triforce symbol that emits a light-based attack, or small clouds of magic that surround her body and increase the range and/or the power of her physical attacks.

However, I personally believe that Sheik is ggoing to come back in spirit, so to speak. While I don't think Sakurai is going to have Sheik running around looking the same or similar to her OoT costume, I think that a "transformation" into "cloaked Zelda" is highly likely. Slap some "bandages" on her hands and give her some boots and it could be quite believable! Also, it wouldn't piss off the fans as much as slapping an OoT character on her TP relative.

In that case, I'd expect the "new Sheik" to keep most is not all her old moves, with a select few being visually altered or tweaked to match the new character model.

And of course, when and if "new Sheik" returns, you can be sure that she will be nerfed quite a bit. Expect her to more closely match her intended Melee description, i.e. fast and combo-heavy with little power. Of course, it CERTAINLY would help that cause if Sakurai buffed Zelda up a bit from her low tier spot last time.

 

[Noshiee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08IxqjyfkxA

Farores Wind confirmed!! (I know that they showed it on the SSE movie clip thingy, but some people said that it could have been anything, that maybee she didnt had it in her moveset, and that was a before game released thing, and maybe it wasnt going to be in the game and stuff)

EDOT: I do believe that farores wind is in, just a ignorant could think that it is not in.

 

[UsernameLink]

That was hard too see, the one bit i try to watch closely and the camera doesnt stop moving

 

[crotch protector]

That was hard too see, the one bit i try to watch closely and the camera doesnt stop moving

yea, that was really annoying. i couldnt make out much. still, i don't doubt that farore's wind is in.