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Falco Matchup Thread #32: Ice Climbers
- Thread starter -DR3W-
- Start date
Crappin Falcon
Smash Rookie
i think the B button is a pretty cool guy
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=315249
Even though knowing the CG is useless.
This Match up sucks like hell.
Just run.. and run.. and run.. like.. don't stop running.
Also F-Tilt on shield ( Spaced ).
But yeah, Jab and run, run like there's no tommorow.
Even though knowing the CG is useless.
This Match up sucks like hell.
Just run.. and run.. and run.. like.. don't stop running.
Also F-Tilt on shield ( Spaced ).
But yeah, Jab and run, run like there's no tommorow.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
I think you can tackle the MU without having to run away the whole time, but I lack an ICs to try against regularly.
Well, the obvious thing is to avoid getting grabbed and to keep the ICs separated. Grabs are really the only way I know of on how you can get the ICs separated in the first place reliably.
Well, the obvious thing is to avoid getting grabbed and to keep the ICs separated. Grabs are really the only way I know of on how you can get the ICs separated in the first place reliably.
Not safe if shield DIed.
M@v
Subarashii!
I like spiking nana so I can't get 0-deathed.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Anything I say about this match up is true.
It's 50-50.
It's 50-50.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Which Ice Climber main uses ISSDI ?
A guy from North Florida. His tag is Saint and he's done it to me in match and just to prove it. No, he's not 100% with it. He gets it a little less than a third of the time.
MARLX
Smash Journeyman
The Falco ice climber MU is a *****.
The only thing you do in this MU is run, laser, and get off lucky jabs and smashes without getting sg. Avoid their dumb *** cg and get lucky if you can seperate nana and cg popo.
I can say this is a 64-36 in ice climbers favor...
The only thing you do in this MU is run, laser, and get off lucky jabs and smashes without getting sg. Avoid their dumb *** cg and get lucky if you can seperate nana and cg popo.
I can say this is a 64-36 in ice climbers favor...
Use laser in this Mu and space them.
Killing them is a horrible option. You'll have to get close to them and once you mess up.
ITS CHAINGRAB TIME! So the only thing you can pretty much do is zone them, run away and don't get grab, so this is a,
-3. Use your secondary.
Killing them is a horrible option. You'll have to get close to them and once you mess up.
ITS CHAINGRAB TIME! So the only thing you can pretty much do is zone them, run away and don't get grab, so this is a,
-3. Use your secondary.
clowsui
Smash Legend
explain, Sergio...we're not all gods at this matchup like you
No way man its not even at all. You can't
do anything but run and laser, killing them one your
dead. Once you kill one of the climbers, thats
when things get in falco's advantage. He can only d-throw chain you thats it. He becomes so weak without her. So when popo is alone it's in falco's favor. But, since falco's does has a hard time
killing them and can't space them with his aerials.
That's why its a bad MU. Falco can't barely do anything but run away and laser like fox does (except he can actuallly kill them) use b-throw, its a good option against because, it separates them.
My bad Bleach and Ryker. Sorry for what I done. Please accept my apologie.
Pro-tip, Jet. Approaching Bleachigo like that will get you ridiculed. You'll simply be the butt of an inside joke. Ask him why, never call him wrong. It's the absolute worst way to get a response. Look at Clowsui.
For the record, Bleachigo isn't always blowing **** out of his ***, he's good at the game.
For the record, Bleachigo isn't always blowing **** out of his ***, he's good at the game.
clowsui
Smash Legend
Bleachigo is the best Falco vs ICs. There's testimony from several Falco players that he is (Shugo and DEHF come to mind, BlueBloodcross and TypEx also) not to mention he trains with a solid ICs all the time (iKon).
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
****ing *******es
stop posting here marlx/jetnumbers
stop posting here marlx/jetnumbers
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Uh, Ice Climbers have one of the lowest frictions in the game while on the ground. So when they dash in with shield assume nothing is safe.
Always be running away.
derp.
Always be running away.
derp.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
P.S. I'm really gay.
DellSmashman
Smash Cadet
Probably the most one sided top tier matchup I've ever seen. Sorry guys.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Alright... most idiots think Falco loses this match up because they're bad. They don't know how moves work. And they don't understand how stupid hard it is for Ice Climbers to actually get close enough for a grab.
So yeah, you might want to look up the data behind their dash speed and fall speed and how high they jump. It's pretty good actually and it's probably the 2nd thing that makes this match up difficult (1st being the actual CG.)
Okay... so there is this really big misconception that Ice Climbers destroy Phantasm. It's not true. Phantasm is forever broken. You shouldn't get hit out of it unless they read it. You can double jump and be all fancy about it and run. They have throw moves out before you phantasm to win. If they start desynching run the hell away. You jump mad high and can phantasm. Simple.
I honestly don't know how to make this sound even because it sounds so stupid and simple. Just run away and laser. Never ever over commit. Assume nothing is safe on block and focus on not getting grabbed or juggled to death. The ledge is a good place to camp on. Falco can throw out every aerial and most of his specials and still grab the ledge. It's a really good mixup when you know the only 3 things Ice Climbers
are going to fish for is a Fair, Squall Hammer and Blizzard.
Like pull out every gimmick over phantasming recklessly. I think just everyone spams phantasm cuz Sethlon got away with it in 08, and doesn't really unless you understand why you how they punish it. They have to throw their B moves out BEFORE you phantasm. SO just don't scared.
Oh and zoning with Boost Pivot Grabs is actually good.
Edit:
@Jet: No worries man. We're all here to learn and discuss.
So yeah, you might want to look up the data behind their dash speed and fall speed and how high they jump. It's pretty good actually and it's probably the 2nd thing that makes this match up difficult (1st being the actual CG.)
Okay... so there is this really big misconception that Ice Climbers destroy Phantasm. It's not true. Phantasm is forever broken. You shouldn't get hit out of it unless they read it. You can double jump and be all fancy about it and run. They have throw moves out before you phantasm to win. If they start desynching run the hell away. You jump mad high and can phantasm. Simple.
I honestly don't know how to make this sound even because it sounds so stupid and simple. Just run away and laser. Never ever over commit. Assume nothing is safe on block and focus on not getting grabbed or juggled to death. The ledge is a good place to camp on. Falco can throw out every aerial and most of his specials and still grab the ledge. It's a really good mixup when you know the only 3 things Ice Climbers
are going to fish for is a Fair, Squall Hammer and Blizzard.
Like pull out every gimmick over phantasming recklessly. I think just everyone spams phantasm cuz Sethlon got away with it in 08, and doesn't really unless you understand why you how they punish it. They have to throw their B moves out BEFORE you phantasm. SO just don't scared.
Oh and zoning with Boost Pivot Grabs is actually good.
Edit:
@Jet: No worries man. We're all here to learn and discuss.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
At the beginning of the match, just run straight at ICs.
They'll shield.
Run behind them and pivot grab.
Bthrow-->bair-->dair.
Now you're winning. Camp.
They'll shield.
Run behind them and pivot grab.
Bthrow-->bair-->dair.
Now you're winning. Camp.
So pretty great post by bleachigo. Glad to know something good can come out of these MU discussions. I'm just curious as to what you meant by the last part of that sentence I quoted. I just can't make sense of it lol.
It seems to me that the worst thing you can do in this MU, aside from getting grabbed, is getting juggled by that ridiculous IC's uair. Now that I think about it, it doesn't seem like you have a lot of options to avoid getting damaged if you're ever in a juggle situation. Unless b-reversal laser is a good enough momentum shifter. Although I can't say anything about Falco vs IC b/c I rarely see such matches on YT, but any MU where the opponent character tries to platform camp IC's they end up taking a lot of damage from uair. So if you plan to platform camp on BF or something, I would make sure to keep moving around and not get uair pressured by them. Again I have no experience in this MU, so all responses are welcome.
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
No, getting juggled by uair is no big deal. Don't bother challenging it and just prepare to DI it or airdodge through it WHILE preparing to DI in order to get down safely. Sometimes getting hit is the only thing you can take (rather than getting frame trapped into a grab).
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Boost Pivot Grab or Falco doesn't get an awesome boost sliding from it.
But, these posts are actually helpful.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Yeah, I'd take damage over getting grabbed any day, but running and avoiding everything is the best.
On stages like BF you can Firebird right before the height you'd get hit and aim for safety. You really just want perfect control over Falco and learn how to properly run away without zoning with your tilts and aerials.
One day or year from now I'll try to get videos up and maybe you can see what I mean.
On stages like BF you can Firebird right before the height you'd get hit and aim for safety. You really just want perfect control over Falco and learn how to properly run away without zoning with your tilts and aerials.
One day or year from now I'll try to get videos up and maybe you can see what I mean.
I dig Lylat as a neutral and I can generally get it. RCruise on that CP status.
On Cruise the IC will just whip out their pocket character so I wouldn't rely on that.
I play this MU a lot from ICs point of view and jab is a huge pain to deal with. Is there an easy solution to it that makes it bad in the MU? I can't grab, I can't punish, all I can do is SDI away.
I play this MU a lot from ICs point of view and jab is a huge pain to deal with. Is there an easy solution to it that makes it bad in the MU? I can't grab, I can't punish, all I can do is SDI away.
SFA Smiley
The SFA King
Random character info: I don't know anything about this matchup but to beat falco's jab you just DI Up-Towards, Towards, Down-Towards, Towards, Up-towards repeat and you'll pop on the other side of him and you can grab him. Not sure if nana will be a dumb ***** about it but it works for other characters.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
My personal opinion is to keep the MU in the Japanese neutrals.
You need phantasm a lot in this match up.
You need phantasm a lot in this match up.
Falco has enough time to simply screw me up by turning his jab around.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
If we single hit jab, they can SDi down and grab us before we can Jab -> Grab.
Or Jab us before the second hit comes out.
Or Shield before the second hit and grab us when we do the second hit.
Second hit.. just repeat what I said for the first hit.
Multi hit, SDi away and down -> Fsmashed Falco.
SDi up and Uair/ Dair/ Fair ( maybe ).
SDi up and behind -> Bair.
SDi behind and down -> Usmash/ Grab.
As long as they aren't Marth/ have great SDi skills.
They think our Jab is broken!
Though, punishing this on reaction is pretty tough.
If they U-Tilt our Phantasm, Phantasm again, Rain does it with Falco, so, why don't we do it again when a weak multi hit move hits us out of it ?
Or Jab us before the second hit comes out.
Or Shield before the second hit and grab us when we do the second hit.
Second hit.. just repeat what I said for the first hit.
Multi hit, SDi away and down -> Fsmashed Falco.
SDi up and Uair/ Dair/ Fair ( maybe ).
SDi up and behind -> Bair.
SDi behind and down -> Usmash/ Grab.
As long as they aren't Marth/ have great SDi skills.
They think our Jab is broken!
Though, punishing this on reaction is pretty tough.
If they U-Tilt our Phantasm, Phantasm again, Rain does it with Falco, so, why don't we do it again when a weak multi hit move hits us out of it ?
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
This is something good to know peoples.
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
I've never liked Jab > Grab anyway. I like to just keep Jabbing.
I like that double phantasm trick.
I like that double phantasm trick.
Something good to know when you have enough space. You get knocked out of a phantasm anywhere near the middle of half the legal stages and you're going to die anyway whether by phantasming off the ledge or canceling into an ICs grab.
That's also assuming that the phantasm was high enough that the UTilt doesn't leave you in a position low enough that it combos into ICs grab.
It's useful information, but definitely situational and not super groundbreaking.
In this match-up, I swear to god, I end up using one follow-up to my jab about 80% of the time.
Jab->Run Away
**** works.
Jab->Run Away
**** works.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
I forgot I'm the only Falco that knows how to cancel phantasm like 100% of the time lol