Falco Matchup Thread #32: Ice Climbers

[MARLX]

I forgot I'm the only Falco that knows how to cancel phantasm like 100% of the time lol

How do you know you are the only Falco that can do it 100% of the time?

 

[-DR3W-]

How do you know you are the only Falco that can do it 100% of the time?

You've gotta be kidding lol

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Was there even a point to posting that question, MARLX?

 

[Pelca]

easily one of falco's best match ups! I honestly haven't played an easier one! You just need to stand there and chill like IC's, cuz there chill too! and then 0-death grab them :D dont let them do it first!

nah but for real just kill nana then grab release sopo to dacus or bdacus at kill %'s, such an easy MU

 

[teluoborg]

Boost Pivot Grab or Falco doesn't get an awesome boost sliding from it.

Wrong, just delay the grab input.
Like instead of doing "right >>> left+grab" go "right >>> left > grab".
The timing is a bit tricky at first but quite easy when you get the hang of it, the frame window is quite wide.
Oh and you must be out of your initial dash for it to work.

Also jab>grab is ****en unsafe and should only be used as a mixup.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

And what about getting the K.O.?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not particularly difficult once they are separated. Nana has a penchant for running into smashes and Dairs. Sopo is a low tier character who you can kill like a mini Marth that is far less dangerous. What are you asking here?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Also jab>grab is ****en unsafe and should only be used as a mixup.

Jab -> Grab is risky. However, jab -> shield surprisingly safe. At least safe in that Falco can do some defensive maneuver before the ICs can even get an attack out.

ICs can jump out of jab1 with SDI up. If not, they cannot jump out. In which case, once they are done with hitstun, falling through the air, and landing on the ground, they get like 1 frame advantage over Falco before he can shield.

You can wait for a hit confirm on your shield, then grab or some other punish out of shield or dropping shield. And this is pretty universal as far as I can tell.

 

[-DR3W-]

The main question is why are you two on Smashboards at 4:30 AM?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I had just gotten home.

 

[TKD]

I've never watched a Falco vs IC match where the Falco doesn't make stupid mistakes. I'd agree that IC have the advantage, but I'd disagree that they counter him. I don't play Falco so I'd just listen to bleachigo about that.

By the way, if you block their SH uair from battlefield's platform (or any of such height), just shieldgrab and bthrow immediately. It's a big chance to **** them.

I also recommend chilling a LOT with your risk-taking when a climber can solo cg you. If he can't, both climbers have to be together for them to cg you, which means a lot more openings.

As for what to do WHILE being chaingrabbed...let's assume that screaming at your opponent, touching him or his controller, and blocking the TV fully or partially is not allowed (which I think should be the case). What I do is extend my arms as I struggle. I'm not blocking the opponent's view of the screen, but this way I severely distract him by messing with his peripheral vision. I used to be an IC main, and this is the technique that caused me to drop my CGs most easily. Varying between extending and retracting, as well as varying the speeds and motions of the struggle is effective if you don't think simple arm extension will work. This is all you can do while being chaingrabbed, but I'm confident that no IC secondary can fully cg you this way. It's also not disrespectful, as all other similar techniques I've seen are.

 

[2-DJeff]

sorry about being late. but everytime I play a falco I **** them(excluding hrnut because we play a lot ).(ask fl falcos) to be completely honest about this mu as a former ic player/falco player. Tkd and bleachigo are right. ic have the advantage but they are not a counter. the mu is like 55:45 ic. people don't understand how good falcos side b is. especially if its usedas a mixup. its really hard for ic to react/punish it. its very situational(hope I spelled that right). Falco players just get way to predictable. especially if the match is dragged out. falco's FH is a excellent escape move. look at zss when she fights us. Falcos aren't using the right tools to win this mu. I know this isn't the marth boards but they're not doing to well vs ic either.



also stop taking ic to yi or lylat. your ******** if you do. those stages eliminate your escape plans by nerfing your side b. you guys may say the stage messes up cg. no it doesnt. it looks different but its the same timing. also another reason why those stages are bad is because. lylat is small so the can catch you and platforms are close together so you can get upaired to hell. same goes for yi. at least at bf (an ok stage for falco vs ic) you have the top platform. forcing characters like pika and ic to do a full hop to try and hit you. but you can still avoid it at the top

 

[-DR3W-]

With the tools that each character has, it's a 55:45 matchup. Falco has the tools to beat them but people do not utilize them creative or correct enough.

But hey, one screw up in that and it's a stock. It's hard to do.

 

[kismet2]

yeah it's that way for both characters. if the ics players leaves nana with us she's going to die lol. the greatest tools in this matchup, aside from phantasm, are dair and ftilt as both of these moves are pretty safe and can't be shieldgrabbed.

 

[DEHF]

I think we do have a lot of tools to beat ICs that most falco players do not use, but I still don't see this match up being any better than 4-6.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

yeah it's that way for both characters. if the ics players leaves nana with us she's going to die lol. the greatest tools in this matchup, aside from phantasm, are dair and ftilt as both of these moves are pretty safe and can't be shieldgrabbed.

I've been shield grabbed out of well spaced FTilt. Shield DI is not unthinkable.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I tried seeing if they could grab dtilt or ftilt, and I do not think they could without needing that shield DI or getting a powershield. The shield push and there sad grab range prevented it from happening. Not sure about Dair ever being safe except against grabs. I always end up getting dash attacked from a shield drop.

I think the biggest problem against the ICs is trading and spacing. If you space ftilt/jab at the normal distance like any other character (at the tip) you only end up hitting one ice climber. The other one ends up hitting you in your ending lag. So you have to get closer than normal with falco to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[kismet2]

I've been shield grabbed out of well spaced FTilt. Shield DI is not unthinkable.

this is true lol it should probably be mixed up with single jab in that case then.

I tried seeing if they could grab dtilt or ftilt, and I do not think they could without needing that shield DI or getting a powershield. The shield push and there sad grab range prevented it from happening. Not sure about Dair ever being safe except against grabs. I always end up getting dash attacked from a shield drop.

I think the biggest problem against the ICs is trading and spacing. If you space ftilt/jab at the normal distance like any other character (at the tip) you only end up hitting one ice climber. The other one ends up hitting you in your ending lag. So you have to get closer than normal with falco to make sure that doesn't happen.

yeah i think single jab>jab cancel>back roll is pretty viable if it's well spaced. this way we can forced the ics to be a little more careful with approaching to give us some leeway on phantasm. this also sets us up for shl mixups since falco's back roll gives us a good amount of space between us and our opponent.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yo Xeylode, Dair is always safe. Now, and forever.

 

[Host Change]

In this MU, what are some of Falco's best tools to separate the IC's? I haven't really run into this MU in tournament except a pocket IC's once so I don't really know that much about it.

Also, what should we ban against IC's?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I always thought FD to ban since platforms help Falco so much in avoiding grabs and his recovery in general. Even though he cannot do much from them they still help so much. Dsmash is pretty good if you can get between the ICs or going for a grab to separate.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I dunno. I'd feel as comfortable on FD as I'm gonna get. I might ban YI because it's so small and the slopes really **** with what I want to do.

However, I've been banning with a secondary in mind since long before unity.

 

[kismet2]

the best way to separate them is by poking at them. you'll have to get your opportunities when you hit with phantasm, ftilt, or dair.

 

[Kuro~]

In theory ps1 would be a great stage against pika and ics. The neutral stage has two platforms for perfect side b escaping and any transformation that messes with phantasm is very easy to camp out /escape with our high jump. And there's the bonus of the cg getting stopped during transition which provides you with instances to take a risk to gain momentum.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't think well spaced ftilts or jabs or stuff are really safe to use since even one powershield will be the end of your stock. And your reward for it is definitely not worth it. Falco will have to play really really well in the MU, but I don't think ICs counter Falco, it's just hard to pull off.

 

[-DR3W-]

Don't go to PS1, you'll phantasm SD cause of the ledge.

True story.

 

[Kuro~]

Don't go to PS1, you'll phantasm SD cause of the ledge.

True story.

Stay free.

 

[-DR3W-]

Stay free.

Go back to your board *****.

 

[Kuro~]

These are my boards, nigz!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Take your gay romance back to the closet.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Thread will be closed for a bit.
Quit with the off-topic non-sense when it comes back.

 

[Matgic]

I can believe the match up is approximately even if Falco is smart. Ends up really campy though. Approaches must be carefully weighed against the potential danger, which would be a stock against a decent IC. I personally don't enjoy this match up.

 

[teluoborg]

I personnally enjoy this matchup much more since I started spamming the hell out of IAP.

 

[Bloodcross]

Retreating FF Dair is sex. I sometimes randomly Full Hop (approaching, rising) Dair. It probably sucks but I can theory craft too.

My other suggestion is never poke because they'll shield DI everytime. Every. Time. Yep, don't use your options because of this one thing. Yep

Vinnie NAKAT (Cheeseburger) Delux other random Ice Climbers

 

[NAKAT]

Cheeseburger? Lmfao

 

[Bloodcross]

mad thirsty

 

[Dekillsage]

Lazer in this match up has interesting properties I was told. Had something to do with how the character has to block but whatever it was isn't coming to mind at the moment.

 

[-LzR-]

With lasers Icies can easily set up a fusion. That stuff is so hilarious. Completely stops Falco from attempting to separate them (he already sucks at that and it's one of the most important things against ICs). I just don't see anyone do it and I haven't seen it officially being banned either.

 

[-DR3W-]

Lmao this matchup. I don't do it as Falco. Period. But I do use IC v Falco and won every time but once. good sheeeeeit to Lad

I personnally enjoy this matchup much more since I started spamming the hell out of IAP.

All it takes is an utilt to counter that........

 

[Darktega]

I don't have any experience on this MU beacuse there's not a single IC here. So...
THUNDER QUESTION TIME! What about shine and trip property? Does it work to separate them?