Q&A Falco Q&A

[Mogwai]

Ok this is completely off topic and is probably a noob question (so sorry in advance) but anyway here it is:

Let's say I am on FD and with Falco (obviously) and I do a shine then jump immediately afterward. I can do this quick enough so that the shine is visible, but stays out for the shortest amount of time because I am hitting jump on frame 2, 3, or 4 and since the earliest the jump animation starts is on 4, my shine is visible for the shortest amount of time possible.

Cool.

But when I do a shine which HITS a character, if I try and hit X immediately after it never registers. It seems like I have to hit X a bit later than I do when the shine doesn't hit a character. Result and problem: my shine stays out for a bit. I'm just wondering if this is what's supposed to happen, or is there a way to jump out of the shine (that hits the opponent) as quickly as you can jump out of the shine (that doesn't hit the opponent).
TY.

hitlag happens which screws up your timing. shine generates 5 frames of hitlag which you have to factor into your jump timing.

 

[wool]

I thought it was hitlag.

Thanks Mog.

 

[TresChikon]

I hit X, Y, and then up in succession to mash in the perfect timing.

 

[P.C. Jona]

wes

our falcon dittos

i just remembered

where are they

plzz put them up

por favor

hey hey hey

>:[

 

[Mogwai]

they'll be up soon, I'm just lazy and don't wanna turn my laptop on tonight. I will promise them by the end of the week.

 

[otg]

tornado ****?

 

[Mogwai]

was on the corrupted file, sry bro

I watched through the stuff that we had on my last ride to DC and I didn't see it, so it must've been on the file that was recording when my comp blue screened. Same **** happened to me when I went over to PC's house...

I need a new laptop

 

[otg]

dude i was totally jking, just making fun of jonas *******. let's plat tomorrow

 

[P.C. Jona]

cool cool cool

and no you werent kidding son

you know you wanna see that

i would too

werd lets play tomorrow

 

[KAOSTAR]

Wow that's a good thing to know lol

Anyway I have a question:

When the opponent is on the lower platforms, is it better to harass them with Shffl'd Uairs or jump and shine their shield then waveland onto the platform?

Situational:

You can get an easier shield poke if they dont aim their shield down. You can also get the same shield poke with a shine if u come directly underneath[and then you can wD onto the platform for more combo potential]

Ideally you would want to knock them off the platform and punish their fall with a bair or something.

 

[TresChikon]

Shining their toes?

I wish I could be good at this game too.

 

[Alukard]

mogwai teach me priority and stuff ... so i can really be good at this game =D

 

[Mogwai]

the most important thing to know about priority is that spacing >>> priority and timing >>> priority. Priority only comes into play when two attacks would connect on the exact same frame and only really for grounded attacks. Aerials don't give a **** about priority and when they hit on the same frame as another attack, both players get hit (the most common exception is with grabs, in which case, you get grabbed, which is lame as hell). You should read Jason's stuff on it (http://m2k.galaxy64.com/ssbm.html) if you're interested in knowing more, but the long story short on it is that 99% of the time that smashers ***** about priority, they don't know what they're talking about and Sheik is simpye outspacing their nair with her ftilt. The only time I legitimately hate priority is when someone grabs my fsmash (when they grab my jab, it's typically a spacing thing ).

 

[Ryan-K]

damage plays a part in ground priority. i think if the difference in damage between 2 ground attacks is over 7% the stronger one wins spacing/timing etc notwithstanding. which is why ganon jabs clank with stuff like marth fsmash alot and it also explains why jabs will only beat things at certain times (move decay lowers damage...so in a very distant sense it lowers priority against ground moves)

 

[Mogwai]

damage plays a part in ground priority. i think if the difference in damage between 2 ground attacks is over 7% the stronger one wins spacing/timing etc notwithstanding. which is why ganon jabs clank with stuff like marth fsmash alot and it also explains why jabs will only beat things at certain times (move decay lowers damage...so in a very distant sense it lowers priority against ground moves)

well, my understanding is that priority only comes into play when two moves would both hit on the same frame, which is what I meant by spacing/timing being more important. if you hit at all faster than your opponent, your attack wins.

 

[Ryan-K]

nah when 2 red hitboxes collide that **** comes into play lol. but yeah spacing timing is more important but its still a nice tidbit to know

 

[Mogwai]

aight, fair enough.

 

[TresChikon]

So priority is really just a subjective thing?

 

[Mogwai]

what? no

 

[KAOSTAR]

Most of the time when ppl talk about priority they are indeed, incorrect but they are often referring to hitbox shapes and sizes, which in turn comes down to them *****ing cuz they have poor spacing.

Anytime two hitboxes collide you have a priority clash, but most fall within the same range. A common exception is projectiles(fully charged vs not) in which one cancels out the other and continues. What you watch out for is the hitbox of the attack overlapping the players hitbox. Thats when one or both players get hit but that is simply spacing.

When something is out prioritized (on the ground) it will continue and proceed to hit with a small delay from the cancelling of the other attack. Aerially you always trade, if the hitboxes overlap.

 

[TresChikon]

Mm, I have been informed.

I guess priority johns won't work anymore.

 

[P.C. Jona]

wes falcon dittos

end of the week :D

plz do it

 

[AvengerAngel]

A tech chasing lesson plz? <3

 

[Falcinho]

cover the tech options you can't reach with lasers and if they roll behind you you can fsmash

Just watch Shiz or Chops carefully to get an impression

 

[Ryan-K]

what i did alot yesterday in tourney and friendlies yesterday was jump out and shine edgeguards. what i mean is you full jump out off stage and shine turn around and stall based on their trajectory. you can jump and bair/dair when necessary or just jump back on stage. it worked great on cf/ganon/falco. especially but it also helped alot on sheik and marfs. its mostly the intimidation factor. also never forget uthrow to fair on marth at 0. takes him to 34 percent if they dont di uthrow

 

[Roneblaster]

hai mogwai, i havent talked to you in a while and you havent critiqued my misuse of words lately.

i miss you

 

[P.C. Jona]

they'll be up soon, I'm just lazy and don't wanna turn my laptop on tonight. I will promise them by the end of the week.

hey

you

:[

 

[TresChikon]

what i did alot yesterday in tourney and friendlies yesterday was jump out and shine edgeguards. what i mean is you full jump out off stage and shine turn around and stall based on their trajectory. you can jump and bair/dair when necessary or just jump back on stage. it worked great on cf/ganon/falco. especially but it also helped alot on sheik and marfs. its mostly the intimidation factor. also never forget uthrow to fair on marth at 0. takes him to 34 percent if they dont di uthrow

Does that really improve your spacing with the edgeguard or is just really cool...or both?

 

[Mogwai]

Mango does it, so it must be good for spacing. It just lets you control the height of your off stage edge guard really well and is really good vs. some characters.

 

[Mogwai]

hey

you

:[

They're uploading right now.

 

[Roneblaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW1a6cShOAs&feature=channel

youre my new favorite person mogwai

 

[Mogwai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW1a6cShOAs&feature=channel

youre my new favorite person mogwai

Thanks, I guess the weak knee -> fall through uair -> knee was pretty alright. Jona DIed into the entire 3rd stock combo though, lol.

 

[Roneblaster]

Jona DIed into the entire 3rd stock combo though, lol.

yeah, i tried to replicate it earlier today vs a friend and he didnt let me do it cause he wasnt sandbagging.

 

[Ryan-K]

Does that really improve your spacing with the edgeguard or is just really cool...or both?

mostly it helps you get edgeguards...but it does look and feel pretty sweet lol...also i did it on good people like hax and g$ so not scrubs lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

Does anyone know the mechanics for doing walkoff shine aerials-the shine is cancelled but you dont jump.

I was falco on dreamland and I ran off and did a shine turnaround backair but when I jc the shine I had no vertical rise at all

edit:I was falco playing against falcon

 

[Mogwai]

what in god's name are you talking about Kao? vids or your making it up.

 

[TresChikon]

When you jump you have the x amount of animation frames. So while you're moving you'll slide during these frames.

Falco has 6 frames of startup.
Falco runs/walks towards the ledge and jumps.
During the animation, his momentum carries him offstage at frame x<6, meaning his jump is essentially canceled because the entire animation did not finish and therefore could not launch him up.

A jump cancels the shine.
So Falco shines at the edge with prior momentum.
He JC's the shine.
The edge cancels his jump.
Falco just falls off as if he just walked or WDed off.
Falco is then free to do any aerial.

So edge-canceled, jump-canceled, shine tunraround bair.

A jump that is canceled by the edge which cancels the shine basically.

That's what Kao is ranting about most likely. Although, I'm not so sure about the Falcon part.

I always do this by accident with Bowser and end up doing some stupid dropzone Bowsercide fair since his jump takes a f*cking century.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea that makes sense then.

So I shined and turned around then slid off and started a jump but fell off before I got off the ground and baired.

thanks

 

[Mogwai]

anyone have vids of this? I have never consciously seen a play cancel a jump with the ledge.

 

[TresChikon]

EDIT: I was gonna link to a vid i saw few mnths ago, but i cant find it anymore.

I believe it was done by AlphaZealot, im not sure.