Q&A Falco Q&A

[Bwoodboy18]

I take it you're very new to smashboards ?

You would be correct....

I'm a good Falco user in my opinion but I don't know many Adv. Tech. with him I've mastered his DACUS but I know there is more.

Now what is wavelanding? Thats also something I haven't heard of.

 

[JPOBS]

shine->platform waveland in general or specifically with upthrow?

common things i do with shine platform waveland:

if they are sitting in sheild on the platform expecting you to aerial or something, you can jump->shine the bottom of the sheild->waveland->shine again->sheild pressure

or you can do standard shine dair combos to about 30ish then instead of letting them DI towards a low platform and tech, you can shine them, waveland to top platform->uptilt/fsmash/upsmash

or if they tech'd a move onto a platform you can chase with shine (hit them) -> waveland -> follow up.

or like vs Floaties or yoshis, you can shine-> short hop shine -> waveland to top platform-. jump shine/DJ shine for easy kills.

possibilities are enless. just watch any recent falco vids and you'll see them throw out platform waveland shines everywhere.

 

[Mogwai]

pretty much any time you can hit them with an aerial shine under a platform you can probablly use shine -> platform waveland for optimal payoff. too many uses for me to like, list them off.

You would be correct....

I'm a good Falco user in my opinion but I don't know many Adv. Tech. with him I've mastered his DACUS but I know there is more.

Now what is wavelanding? Thats also something I haven't heard of.

DACUS? what?

you should read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749

wavelanding is like wavedashing, except that rather than airdodging immediately as you start a jump, you do it at the end of a jump to land with the sliding motion.

 

[JPOBS]

dacus stands for dash attack cancelled upsmash but im pretty sure it only exists in brawl :/

 

[Mogwai]

lol, ok, yea bro, this is melee boards

 

[prog]

Wow, Shine? I've never heard that terminology before and I've been maining Falco for ever....I'm assuming its his reflector?

brentwood? I'm in Westbury. hit me up, and come to the game table this saturday

 

[AvengerAngel]

common things i do with shine platform waveland:

if they are sitting in sheild on the platform expecting you to aerial or something, you can jump->shine the bottom of the sheild->waveland->shine again->sheild pressure

I get it like 30% of the times I try it x(
Sometimes the WL > shine comes out pretty fast, some other times the WL lag prevents me from doing anything. What am I doing wrong? :x

 

[JPOBS]

I get it like 30% of the times I try it x(
Sometimes the WL > shine comes out pretty fast, some other times the WL lag prevents me from doing anything. What am I doing wrong? :x

take a look at this and see if you notice any difference in methodology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVpyRZb7v0o#t=0m25s

otherwise, you're gonna have to be more specific on what exactly happens when u mess up for me to help.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Yup, something like that. Sometimes I get it as fast (or faster, I dunno), some other times it seems like the WL lag lasts forever. Maybe I'm just getting the timing wrong. I'll try to record it and upload a vid tomorrow :x

 

[X1-12]

dacus stands for dash attack cancelled upsmash but im pretty sure it only exists in brawl :/

I'm fairly sure it exists with some characters in Melee, I'm positive i saw something about it on the young link boards

 

[The Irish Mafia]

there's DACG in melee but that's all IIRC

 

[JPOBS]

ya u can grab out of dash attacks but you cant upsmash

 

[JPOBS]

so after doing a few quick tests, mogwai was right Laser-grab doesnt combo at all vs tech->buffer spotddge/roll.

its funny cuz if they tech is place they can actually spotdodge the laser itself but then get grabbed.

but yea, it works all the time in actual matches cuz everything is movign so fast and human reaction can only go so far, but laser->grab aint got **** on an opponent who techs and buffers a dodge.

 

[X1-12]

DACUS


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257563&highlight=DACUS&page=3



he does say on the last page it might be version specific but seriously yo



if the link doesnt work, search DACUS on in the YL boards

 

[Dynamism?]

K when Shine > Bairing OOS

Do you have to jump OFF THE GROUND > shine IN THE AIR JUST OFF THE GROUND > double jump BAIR??

Cause I can't seen you do a JC Shine > Bair fast enough. I'm pretty sure you can't cause of the jump animation, clarification? :\

 

[JPOBS]

yea you have to leave the ground first otherwise.

jumping from a shine in the air only takes a frame, jumping from the grounded shine is like 6 frames or something.

anyway ya jus be slightly off the ground

 

[Mogwai]

hmmm, my inet crapped out before I posted this apparently. JPOBS is right, but here's my response as it's more in depth and whatnot.

K when Shine > Bairing OOS

Do you have to jump OFF THE GROUND > shine IN THE AIR JUST OFF THE GROUND > double jump BAIR??

Cause I can't seen you do a JC Shine > Bair fast enough. I'm pretty sure you can't cause of the jump animation, clarification? :\

yes, you have to be airborne. double jump gets you out in 1 frame, whereas jumping off the ground gets you out of your shine in 6 frames. If you want to immediately combo into a bair, being airborne is the only way to pull it off.

fun story, all JC shining gets you off the ground. what we usually consider JC shining is shining on that first airborne frame, on which Falco will always land again before he can jump out of his shine. If you are any later and jump out of your shine ASAP, you will still be airborne and thus will double jump. With Fox, even if you shine on his first airborne frame, you have to wait 2 frames before landing because he accelerates much quicker in his jump.

 

[noodles]

hmmm, my inet crapped out before I posted this apparently. JPOBS is right, but here's my response as it's more in depth and whatnot.



yes, you have to be airborne. double jump gets you out in 1 frame, whereas jumping off the ground gets you out of your shine in 6 frames. If you want to immediately combo into a bair, being airborne is the only way to pull it off.

fun story, all JC shining gets you off the ground. what we usually consider JC shining is shining on that first airborne frame, on which Falco will always land again before he can jump out of his shine. If you are any later and jump out of your shine ASAP, you will still be airborne and thus will double jump. With Fox, even if you shine on his first airborne frame, you have to wait 2 frames before landing because he accelerates much quicker in his jump.

woooah .

 

[JPOBS]

i've always wondered this and im pretty sure i intuitively know but i;ve never bothered to ask outright

whats the difference between a JC shine and a non-jc shine.

like i figure all shines are jump cancelled (thats how we do silly combos out of them) but "jc shine" seems to be used specifically when refering to staying grounded in the shine THEN doing stuff which i never really understood as being different than cancelling the shine any other way.

that was probably hard to follow but meh anyone cares enough explain that'd be cool

 

[noodles]

jc shine is when you jump before the shine. i never look at it that way though.

 

[X1-12]

jc shine is when you jump before the shine. i never look at it that way though.

but if you JC a shine then it just means you jump out of it (mayber into a WD or another shin) but i guess this probably should be called Shine-cancelling really.

 

[Mogwai]

so, honestly JCing is a bit of a misnomer. JCing existed before JC shines in the form of JC grabbing and JC usmashing. These two techniques refer to cancelling the jump animation during startup frames with either grab or usmash.

When people started multishining, they called it JC shining because they thought it was the same mechanic in place (canceling jump startup frames with a move, in this case, shine), because of the observable phenomena that Fox/Falco didn't ever appear to leave the ground while multishining. However, this is not the case, we're shining on the first airborne frame and landing before we jump out again, so technically, this is nothing new. The only novel idea about what we can JC shining is doing successive shines on the first airborne frame.

So to answer JPOBS's question, JC shining is the name given to shining in midair on the first airborne frame such that with little (Fox) to no (Falco) delay on your jump out of the shine, you have already landed again. This lets Spacy players use pseudo-grounded shines in situations where they can jump, but could not normally shine (OoS and startup dash frames).

 

[JPOBS]

interesting.

thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Ryan-K]

happy birthday wesley

heres your present LOL >_>

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260476

 

[voorhese]

to lazy to look if this has been done b4, but this is the falco thread with the flaming arrow so...

i was playing falco, and i stumbled apon a neat little tricksy

if u jump -> shine -> nair fox underneath the pokemonstadium panels you autocancel ur nair on the panel for quick combos

u know like those special ariels that put u on the panels? (help me phanna)

but it combos like that, i havent tried on anyone else, imma make a vid real quick


edit: i did it on accident, paused it, then tried it again, and it worked....now i cant do it at all.... also it was on falco not fox

someone go figure it out =P tas if u need to cuz i cant do it anymore

 

[P.C. Jona]

ayuda? (help?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NmMOw5843E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sjYPaanBOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEPUPCPcJQ8

 

[BigD!!!]

jason voohese, who the **** calls them panels hahaha

 

[Kason Birdman]

lmfap i was thinking the same thing. panels. haahahaha

 

[P.C. Jona]

also is it better to do a bair that auto cancels or to fastfall and l cancel it

 

[Mogwai]

depends on the situation

 

[voorhese]

i get flamed for calling them panels every tme....maybe i should just use platforms..... but i always forget to =P

 

[P.C. Jona]

depends on the situation

thats what i thought, ive just been autocanceling them and i dont think ive gotten grabbed out of it yet

wes we still havent played in years

wanna play wednesday night ?

 

[DippnDots]

league of legends is effing bad ***


i hear for shield pressure against falcon, auto cancel is the way to go. But say you just finished a combo with a bair, you'd probably want to fast fall and l cancel as you'll be higher than a short hop

 

[tw1n]

Excellent reading thank you. I will begin working on these this instant =]

 

[Incronaut]

when you shffl aerials with falco, are you supposed to fast fall first, then aerial? or aerial first, then fast fall?

Also, whats the "oversimplified" strategy against low tiers? is it spam lasers and space bairs?

 

[JPOBS]

^ you do both depending on where you want the aerial to hit, how long you want the hitbox to be out, if you're mixing up sheild pressure etc, they both have their place.

As for oversimplify strat for beating low tiers i have two basic strats:
if the char is big and/or has a decent sheild (link, mewtwo, zelda etc), space bairs and uptilts and dont really mess with their sheild too much. Most low tiers have surprisingly decent OoS options and you dont even need to pressure their sheild cuz they are bad characters beat them in other ways.

if they are small and/or have bad sheilds (pika, pichu, kirby, g&w) etc, then spam Dair in their face and everywhere around the map and make them cry.

so just figure out what kind of bad character you're facing but generally its not hard. obviously shoot lasers and dont miss l-cancels.

 

[Doomblaze]

league of legends is effing bad ***


i hear for shield pressure against falcon, auto cancel is the way to go. But say you just finished a combo with a bair, you'd probably want to fast fall and l cancel as you'll be higher than a short hop

Ahaha league of legends is horrendous, stick with DotA.

If you autocancel your bairs, can you shine afterwards before they grab you?

 

[JPOBS]

if you space it such that a shine would land (ie. you're right next to them) i dont think so because you're in the air for so long on autocanceled bairs that im pretty sure they can grab you.

im not 100% cuz i dont use autocancel bairs much

 

[AnDaLe]

yea, i hear Heroes of Newerth is pretty good too

 

[KAOSTAR]

you said what, melee is ****ing awesome

I agree