Q&A Falco Q&A

[DtJ Jungle]

sall good sall good

lesson three...setting up combos?

 

[RaynEX]

chyes !

we should play at CT.

 

[Mogwai]

we should play at CT.

If you're gonna be at Bullheaded whositwhatsit, I will be sure to play you.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

oooooo ish...mog v rayn...get em son!

 

[Roman.]

how do you reverse ledge-hop double laser?

 

[Mogwai]

how do you reverse ledge-hop double laser?

Easy and slow way: do a LHDL, but rather than hitting down to drop from the ledge, hit back to let go of the ledge. If you start your first laser before DIing into the stage, it'll go away from the stage since the last horizontal input on the control stick was when you hit back.

Right way: do a LHDL but when you tap down to let go of the ledge, roll the stick slightly away from the stage before letting it return to neutral. This is pretty hard since you have such a small window of time to let the stick return to neutral, but if you want to fire crisp and quick RLHDLs, it's the correct way to do it.

 

[Roman.]

tyvm

was about to edit that i figured it out and yeah it's exactly as you said it (the right way that is)

 

[Darth Waffles]

I don't want to claim to be an expert on this, because I still mess up every so often. I can, however, do it pretty consistently, and here's how I do it.

The general plan is to drop, jump, face away from the stage, fire twice, and end up moving backwards. This is only going to happen if you use the control stick for everything. You just don't have time to drop, press X or Y, flick the control stick away from the stage, press B, and then start DI-ing back to the stage while you press B again. It's just not going to work (it doesn't for me, at least). Make sure you've got regular LHDL down before you do this, because it's quite a bit harder.

I'm going to assume that you're on the right side of a stage, hanging from the ledge.

1. Drop from the ledge (down on the control stick)

2. Jump up and be facing the other way, away from the stage. To do this, you need to flick (or push REALLY quickly if it works better for you) the control stick opposite the direction you were hanging from, but as close to where you need to push it to go up. In other words, you need to push/flick the control stick in between notches 1 and 2, assuming 1 is "straight up" and 2 is "up and away from the stage", here up and to the right, much closer to the "straight up" notch. You can start practicing here, just by jumping out like this and DI-ing back to the stage.

3.-4. Fire a laser and IMMEDIATELY press the control stick towards the stage. It doesn't have to be a hard push, but it has to be done very quickly. You'll soon find out your limit if you end up doing this but not reaching the stage, thus SD-ing while firing lasers.

You'll know if you're going too slow by SD-ing. You'll know if you've pressed the control stick too far from the "upper notch" if you can't make it back even without firing the lasers. You'll know if you're going too FAST if you find yourself using your up-b instead of jumping and firing lasers.

For these reasons, I find it easier to push down on the control stick and then do a flicking motion where I guide it to a spot where I know I'll jump and be facing the other way (for lack of measurement, we'll call it anywhere between 10 and 25 degrees away from the upper notch) and then pretty much pushing it up, but letting go of it in the process. I'm not sure if this is the absolute best way to do it, but it makes reaching the stage a lot easier for me. This is because letting go of the control stick after jumping and facing backwards returns it to neutral, so I don't use a "firefalco." The control stick should never actually "rest" at neutral, because as soon as it begins to reset, you should be pressing it toward the stage, by which time you should have already pressed B to fire the first laser.

5. Keep DI-ing toward the stage and fire a second laser. The animation from firing the first laser will prevent you from ever doing a side b instead of a second laser, so you don't have to worry about that. What you do need to worry about is that you didn't jump out too far to DI back and land on the stage. When combining this with the end of the last step, the order is (already facing away from the stage) B>DI toward stage>B again (while still DIing)

6.? Ideally, you'ld want to fastfall if at all possible, but I don't even ever really bother with this. Either they won't be close enough for it to matter, or if they are, then you would probably have done just as well with a ledge-hopped back air

Sorry if this was confusing. I didn't mean for it to be this long and wordy. Drop, jump with the control stick so that you're facing away, fire a laser and immediately begin DI-ing back to the stage once the control stick is about at neutral, and fire the second one while still DIing

No love for this Mogwai? It's on reverse LHDL with step by step instructions from a grand total of 1 page ago

Props for condensing all of that into a couple of sentences though =)

 

[Mogwai]

No love for this Mogwai? It's on reverse LHDL with step by step instructions from a grand total of 1 page ago

Props for condensing all of that into a couple of sentences though =)

oh, sorry, I was paying minimal attention to smashboards over the holidays so I saw a wall of text and was like, "um, not now, gonna respond to KevinM's 1 line thingie...", lol.

Also, you don't need to just use the stick or your particular ordering. For instance, I use:

down on stick
roll stick away
let stick reset
tap y with the tip of my thumb
tap b with the middle of my thumb
di into stage with stick
tap b again with middle of my thumb

As with just about all tech skill, the way you physically do things is all about what you find most comfortable and easy to do. It's always good to talk to people about that stuff though cause sometimes they will have ways that you find way better. For instance the thumb positioning thing for LHDL I got from Magus and it's infinitely better than what I used to do (x -> b, omg, my fingers are not fast enough for that).

 

[Oskurito]

Random comment: If you can SHDL with fox then LDHL with falco becomes much easier

 

[noodles]

doing anything with fox makes everything easier as falco. except wavedashing for some reason timing is mad weird for me switching fox to falco.

 

[Mogwai]

doing anything with fox makes everything easier as falco. except wavedashing for some reason timing is mad weird for me switching fox to falco.

Fox has 4 frames of jumping start-up lag, whereas Falco has 6.

 

[noodles]

that explains the weird timing i was talking about and why short hopping is easier though its only a 2 frame difference lol.

 

[Mogwai]

that explains the weird timing i was talking about and why short hopping is easier though its only a 2 frame difference lol.

Well, for shot hop timing, the rule is that you have to have let go of the jump button 2 frames before going aerial, which means that the short hop window for Fox is 2 frames as opposed to Falco's which is 4 frames, in other words, you have twice as long to let go of the button as Falco.

As to the WD, the idea is that you're airdodging on the first aerial frame, so you're really shooting for 1 particular frame. 2 frames is a lot to throw off timing that is that precise.

 

[TidalWave]

Random comment: If you can SHDL with fox then LDHL with falco becomes much easier

Random response: I don't play with spacies too much, but I've always found Falco's LHDL to be MUCH EASIER than SHDL with Fox. My right thumb doesn't always cooperate lol. I can do the latter, but not on command every time like I can the former. I'll even say that reverse LHDL is easier also (for me).

 

[noodles]

you know alot about this game. i also had no idea about the 2 frame rule for the short hop. i just press x lightly which would sometimes end up as me not pressing it at all. im going to work on this now

 

[Mogwai]

Random response: I don't play with spacies too much, but I've always found Falco's LHDL to be MUCH EASIER than SHDL with Fox. My right thumb doesn't always cooperate lol. I can do the latter, but not on command every time like I can the former. I'll even say that reverse LHDL is easier also (for me).

To get even lasers off the ledge requires roughly the same jump -> first laser timing as SHDL, but SHDL requires that you also manage to just short hop, so I find it more difficult. Though I find them both pretty easy using a thumb roll technique as opposed to sticking them or relying on blazing finger speed for x -> b (WoZ and StarzOnEdge both do SHDLs with this, it still amazes me).

 

[Da Shuffla]

I think LHDL is harder. You have more to "manage" when doing a ledge hop.

 

[Mi1oo]

How the heck are you spose to hit the crouching kirby at will lol. I practiced this for a bit and could only hit it like 1\20 times. If anyone could give me some tips on how to get the shl low enough to hit a crouching kirby that'll be great thanks

 

[DippnDots]

It's just timing when you begin the fast fall ;0

 

[Da Shuffla]

Yeah you REALLY have to wait for the blaster shot on the crouching Kirby. That was the hardest for me to hit, too.

 

[TidalWave]

To get even lasers off the ledge requires roughly the same jump -> first laser timing as SHDL, but SHDL requires that you also manage to just short hop, so I find it more difficult. Though I find them both pretty easy using a thumb roll technique as opposed to sticking them or relying on blazing finger speed for x -> b (WoZ and StarzOnEdge both do SHDLs with this, it still amazes me).

Thumb roll technique? Excuse my noobism.

 

[Mogwai]

Thumb roll technique? Excuse my noobism.

tap y with the tip of my thumb
tap b with the middle of my thumb

this. it's hard to explain further without pictures or something.

 

[TidalWave]

I see. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks!

 

[Mi1oo]

Hmm okay so short pause, then b, then fast fall? Is it kind of the same pause as falcos sh laser in brawl?

Edit: I know most people have probably already understood the low LHDL but just for the people that are still confused I’ll put my way of doing it up.

Do this in the following order, FastFall by taping down on the control stick, Up on the control stick once low enough, after hitting up Immediately let the stick reset at the same time start pressing B, once falco begins shooting 1st laser stick left/right (you can stick while pressing b and still shoot lasers as long as your guns out 1st)

 

[Arrogant]

Nothing new? ***** gets banned for 3 weeks and come back to this. . . SMH.

What up, Wes?

 

[Mogwai]

Nothing new? ***** gets banned for 3 weeks and come back to this. . . SMH.

What up, Wes?

work's kinda killing the idle time that I would be spending on this :\. I'd rather spend the scarce free time that I have actually playing melee than working on this. Hopefully this stupid project will be done soon and I can get back to having all the time in the world to write stuff 'bout Falco.

 

[DippnDots]

When I do LHDL, I actually just drop down and jump with the control stick, i was having trouble using the X button to jump and when I used the control stick the timing seemed to come perfect, all i had to refine was getting both lazers at the right height and that didnt take too long at all. Either I'm just weird or using the control stick to drop, jump, and move onto the stage is EZ AZ ****. I don't think i've accidentally illusioned trying to LHDL either :x like fo sho not once >_>

 

[soap]

i have no control with the thumb roll, i gotta use the tip for buttons, i use the middle for the stick and cstick.

control stick LHDL ftw.

i can do shdl with fox with y to b regular but it takes too much focus

 

[I.B]

^ lol, i do the same thing except with not alot of focus so that means i'm better than you soap

 

[Mogwai]

i have no control with the thumb roll, i gotta use the tip for buttons, i use the middle for the stick and cstick.

control stick LHDL ftw.

i can do shdl with fox with y to b regular but it takes too much focus

yea, I'm weird, I hit most buttons with the center of my thumb so yea... but w/e, the technique is still ballin'.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Very nice Mogwai, I was pretty impressed with your info. With some practice you definitely can be a top falco player. The knowledge you have is very impressive, keep it up.

EDIT:

I hit most buttons with the center of my thumb aswell.

 

[Roman.]

Very nice Mogwai, I was pretty impressed with your info. With some practice you definitely can be a top falco player. The knowledge you have is very impressive, keep it up.

EDIT:

I hit most buttons with the center of my thumb aswell.

talk about inspiration

LOL

 

[Arrogant]

work's kinda killing the idle time that I would be spending on this :\. I'd rather spend the scarce free time that I have actually playing melee than working on this. Hopefully this stupid project will be done soon and I can get back to having all the time in the world to write stuff 'bout Falco.

I read that but I dunno what you said. . .

 

[DippnDots]

Arrogant i expect a sexy gif with every post you make >_>

 

[Arrogant]

Arrogant i expect a sexy gif with every post you make >_>

I got you, Papaz.

 

[soap]

YO mogwai, i have a very basic question on approach.

in general is it better to nair or dair? i know it depends on the spacing and momentum and how u spaced the approaching laser, but which one do u feel is the more solid approach in more situations.

just like a quick list of the pros and cons of each and ill kinda figure out when to use which

 

[LumpyCPU...]

this is not an answer to your question. lol
but if i short hop, i always dair (sometimes bair.)

 

[soap]

i dair like 70 percent of the time, but sometimes they hit me out of it cuz i do it real late for shield pressure, when i do it early i get grabbed....

when i do nair they always CC.

laser grab more?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

if they are sittin gin shield..laser grab is ****.