Fox Discussion Thread

[Speed Demon 64]

Fox was my original Main, even in the old 64 days, and even more so in Melee, but when I played as him in Brawl, my heart sank. I quickly disowned him and quickly replaced him with Sonic as my new speed main. After a while, I grew bored of owning the crap out of lv. 9 coms with Sonic and I said, " I should use Fox. I'm fighting coms so I have nothing to lose." So I started to play with him again and after a while, I found out that he really isn't that bad. He's just different from what he was in Melee. His Fair got fixed from its previously near uselessness and his Bair got a little buffed I think. Fire Fox does a little more damage, and the blaster is better in the sense that it doesn't have much after-lag.Fox may have been nerfed overall, but he is still a solid character. He just takes time to get good with.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Fox is like way faster than Sonic >__>.

on topic does anyone know if shineing while flying away can help stop your momentum? also does Fox illusin have two cancel methods or just 1?

 

[Tangy]

Fox can't shine until the stun animation is over, so you can't stop your horizontal momentum.
What do you mean by cancel method? Like the shortened illusion?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So much for Shine saving......

Anyway Like how Falco and Wolf can either cancel it completely or cut the length short by a bit like go 3/4the the distance with their side B. i have been able to cancel Fox's but i don't think he has the secondary shortening method they have.

 

[_X_]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PsDn4cua8P0

What do we all think of this?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

interesting.......
but would it work out that well?

 

[Zhamy]

Very situational and not guaranteed. While it may help you land another Dair at early percents, the stun animation from Utilt doesn't last long enough to be that useful at anything above mid-40%s.

 

[Bevo]

That's pretty good. I can see me using that in my game. Mindgames could get a potential 2 or 3 footstool combos in a row too. I think it's a nice reliable move at lower percents. I have a couple of questions.

_X_ is this your video?

Can this move be pulled off on all of the cast? (even though pikachu is enough to make me happy)

 

[_X_]

That's pretty good. I can see me using that in my game. Mindgames could get a potential 2 or 3 footstool combos in a row too. I think it's a nice reliable move at lower percents. I have a couple of questions.

_X_ is this your video?

Can this move be pulled off on all of the cast? (even though pikachu is enough to make me happy)

So man, it's not my vid.

It's pretty **** cool though... if possible...

Edit: Also if you guys could have a look at my thread and tell me what you think. The neglect pains my poor ego :' (

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184998

 

[Tangy]

To extend on Monkeyx4's thread on the f-tilt and n-air lock, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185422, I've created a list showing what the minimum percentage is to cause your opponent to trip by an attack. May by useful, may not be, but I'm bored out of my mind right now, so I'm gunna do this

Attacks in red mean its not useful to cause tripping
[Sytle: Attack- % against heavyweights/% against lightweights]

B-air - 32% / 23%
U-air - 21% / 19%
N-air (strong hit) - 60% / 48%
N-air (weak hit) - 110% / 87%
F-air - 0% / 0% as long as last attack hits
D-air - 200% / 200%

U-tilt (strong hit) - 34% / 25%
U-tilt (weak hit) - 50% / 39%
D-tilt (strong hit) - 42% / 32%
D-tilt (medium hit) - 48% / 37%
D-tilt (weak hit) - 55% / 47&
F-tilt (low kick) - 69% / 54%
F-tilt (medium kick) - 88% / 63%
F-tilt (high kick) - 61% / 47%

F-smash - 34% / 24%
D-smash - 13% / 8%
U-smash - 10% / 5%

U-throw - 0% / 0%
D-throw - 0% / 0%
B-throw - 0%/ 0%
F-throw - 45%/ 33%

Firefox - 15% / 11%
Illusion (on ground) - 26% - 20%
Illusion (in air) - 1% / 0%
Shine - 99% / 79%

Dash attack - 47%/ 36%

Aerial footstool - Any

Can't think of any combos right now. I'll try to find some later, or someone could do it for me xD. Letterbomb already has a good one.

 

[Bevo]

You can use Fox's footstool combo and then N-air lock, or F-tilt lock if you don't want an extended combo.

 

[_X_]

To extend on Monkeyx4's thread on the f-tilt and n-air lock, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185422, I've created a list showing what the minimum percentage is to cause your opponent to trip by an attack. May by useful, may not be, but I'm bored out of my mind right now, so I'm gunna do this

Attacks in red mean its not useful to cause tripping
Attacks in green are the ones I find most useful
[Sytle: Attack- % against heavyweights/% against lightweights]

B-air - 32% / 23%
U-air - 21% / 19%
N-air (strong hit) - 60% / 48%
N-air (weak hit) - 110% / 87%
F-air - 0% / 0% as long as last attack hits
D-air - 200% / 200%

U-tilt (strong hit) - 34% / 25%
U-tilt (weak hit) - 50% / 39%
D-tilt (strong hit) - 42% / 32%
D-tilt (medium hit) - 48% / 37%
D-tilt (weak hit) - 55% / 47&
F-tilt (low kick) - 69% / 54%
F-tilt (medium kick) - 88% / 63%
F-tilt (high kick) - 61% / 47%

F-smash - 34% / 24%
D-smash - 13% / 8%
U-smash - 10% / 5%

U-throw - 0% / 0%
D-throw - 0% / 0%
B-throw - 0%/ 0%
F-throw - 45%/ 33%

Firefox - 15% / 11%
Illusion (on ground) - 26% - 20%
Illusion (in air) - 1% / 0%
Shine - 99% / 79%

Dash attack - 47%/ 36%

Aerial footstool - Any

Can't think of any combos right now. I'll try to find some later, or someone could do it for me xD. Letterbomb already has a good one.

A credit to the forums.

The more solid info we have the better meta game our character will have.

 

[jorgewipy]

MY Fox strategy is just
0% Screw Dgrab FAir then Jump up Air
2-10% screw 2 up tilt up Smash 2 jumps Uair Or FAir or Bair
0% Ledges DGrab Screw Shine if u do it correct u get a KO.
20-50% Screw DGrab FAir
50-90% Screw DSmash or Shine
30-50% Screw Shine USmash
50-70% FGrab and Catch him with USmash
10-20% DashAtack 2 Uptilts smash Atack
10-20% DashAtack 1 Up Tilt Then DSmash
100-200 % Screw Up Smash

i cant remember more lol... xD

 

[_X_]

I just combo'd N-air > Fsmash

The game's broken kids, go home.

 

[soul ark]

i was wondering how i would go about fighting falco i know it's been asked a hundred times but i just want to know if fox can really pull it off if he just cant that would be acceptable to but im sure fox can fight him some way

 

[_X_]

i was wondering how i would go about fighting falco i know it's been asked a hundred times but i just want to know if fox can really pull it off if he just cant that would be acceptable to but im sure fox can fight him some way

For the last time the match up isn't that bad, just play smart. If he keeps shield grabbing your D air then just do and empty short hop and grab him.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

isn't it possible to Dair behind him to better avoid the CG? i haven't fought a Falco that grabs so im not sure.

 

[_X_]

isn't it possible to Dair behind him to better avoid the CG? i haven't fought a Falco that grabs so im not sure.

Yeah, but it's not so easy to short up behind him, you'd have to do a full up making it kinda obvious etc.

 

[soul ark]

isn't it possible to Dair behind him to better avoid the CG? i haven't fought a Falco that grabs so im not sure.

a falco that doesn't grab is that even possible that chain grab is a mess. and i know the match up isn't that bad i just needed a little insight

and while im at it why is it that every time im on these boards im always subjected to a thread that say's "hey i main___ but i think fox is good what can you guys tell me..." dont people have enough sense to just see that fox has combos and that's his strength it's almost like they dont even play fox they just look at him and say "well i dont wanna waste my time playing a character no one else plays let me ask someone and waste there time."

and when i go to the fox boards i expect to see things about fox i dont care about the other space animals i made a choice and that choice was fox i dont want to see wolf or falco or people asking about if they should pick falco or fox im sick of it.

im mad because there's barely any information for us to look at as fox mains and people are leeching on what little we have the boards are dying someone help them.

(gets off the soap box and walks away...)

 

[Bevo]

When i go to the fox boards I expect to see things about Fox. I don't care about the other space animals. I made a choice and that choice was Fox. I don't want to see Wolf or Falco or people asking about if they should pick Falco or Fox. I'm sick of it.

I'm mad because there's barely any information for us to look at as fox mains and people are leeching on what little we have. The boards are dying someone help them.

(gets off the soap box and walks away...)

Amen.

-BUT, the Fox Boards aren't dying. They used to be dying. There has been a hell of a lot more posting then there was a few months ago. They're getting life now. There is also a lot more intelligent discussion, and not as many pointless posts. The pointless posts are still out there, believe me, there just isn't as much as there used to be. Now, that this pointless post is out of the way, onward with the discussion.

Falco isn't that hard to fight, unless your opponent is just really good. Any character can beat any other character. It all depends on the player. Nobody wants to hear that, because when we lose, we blame broken chaingrabs or bad matchups. You guys want to talk about the matchup though, so lets talk matchup. I'm not going to tell you move for move what to do, because I hate people that do that, and 99% of the time they don't know what they're talking about. Fox isn't strong with his approach options, and Falco is good at making you approach. You need to get through the pressure lasers and use Fox's speed and low-lag attacks to your advantage when you get close. I'm not telling you which specific moves to use, but get creative and you'll figure it out. Keep the pressure on Falco and play a more aggressive game. Aggressive, but not stupid. Don't just run up to him "aggressively" and do stupid things, like walking into a chain grab. Use your head and take on an aggressive play style. This is just my advice, take it or leave it. If you don't like it, write your own.

 

[soul ark]

thank you i accept your advice and i agree with your input about the boards as a whole... also i think it's always good to have a little contribution to the fox community so i'll say this...

this may just only be a problem with me but all fox mains should know that shielding and shield grabbing is essential for any fox's combo game. if you see a dash attack dont dodge shield grab in fact make it your business to not only let every attack hit (even though thats impossible all on it's own) but to punish the opponent like crazy.

also dont be intimidated by the air use that side air often if your on the ledge mix it up drop down and side air up.


mabye this applys only to me but i'd feel worse if i said nothing. it helped my game a bunch.

 

[Reioumu]

I'm not really a native to the Fox boards, but he's one of my secondaries. Has anyone tried Release grab up-smash on Metaknight? I want to know if they can get out of it or not. If they can't, then *gasp* Fox has a killing method against him other than random attacks lol.
-Rei

 

[Tangy]

But that won't work if he just plops right in front of you, it may work if he jumps out of the grab.

 

[soul ark]

nope thats just marth i think at least with the wario thing i was so disappointed

 

[JoeMotion]

I did something a while ago but forgot to mention it on the boards. I think that I used fox Illusion to either cancel pkt1 or pkt2 on lucas. I haven't tested it, since I don't have anyone to be 2nd player right now. Just wondering if anyone else has done this?

 

[ThaRoy]

Fox's sliding pivot grab is awesome...however I never know what direction to throw them and how to follow it up. Can someone please talk about this or link me to a post explaining the grabs.

 

[SSBBsquared8]

if close to the edge of the stage, try throwing right, then shine spike down (like a meteor smash). if more towards the middle, throw up, then keep u-airing, because it's one of the best up kills in the game (according to SmashWiki), and he can do multiple because he falls so fast.

 

[Imainlowtier]

Is his D-Throw good?
Because I use it sometimes.
Just wondering if I should perform a different throw.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Dthrow can usually be followed up with a fair. so its good i think. when my Wii gets fixed im gonna play with it some more and see what else to use it for.

 

[§witch]

Dthrow to drill shine looks really sexy when it works.

 

[Veggi]

I've been doing a chain of moves, it used to be all the time, but now it's only after a drill when the opponent gets behind me. (I switched ahead for drill>jab>grab.)

Anyway, it's the basic drill to up-tilts, but when they are about to get to the range where some people would use up-smash, I would use Fire Fox (not the browser) and it does a metric ****-ton of damage. If I did it wrong and started it up, I would aim it to shoot myself away from them to avoid punishing (Fire Fox lets you change the direction you go late in the move.) If I caught them in it, I would aim it torwards them. (most of the time up wards, both of these assuming I wouldn't suicide, obviously.) When I shoot myself upwards I would use Fox's good fast-fall speed to get to the ground before they could get me, it's actually decievingly hard to punish. Plus, I like to save the up-smash because it's the most reliable way to get a kill.

I really don't know if this is a legit combo, but I'm going to go ahead and assume it's not. From my experience with it, it has a very good chance of going through smoothly, I think another negetive thing about it is Fire Fox could be DI'd out of, although personally I've never seen it done. I'd love to hear if this is worth doing, thanks.

I'm not sure if I put this in the right thread. : /

 

[mimic_king]

fox is just bad. he has some positives, but he is bad.

he can't do as many fast combos anymore. he just isn't good.

 

[-Mars-]

fox is just bad. he has some positives, but he is bad.

he can't do as many fast combos anymore. he just isn't good.

Go troll somewhere else, your not needed here

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Go troll somewhere else, your not needed here

thank you for saying what i was about to say. lol

 

[Bevo]

fox is just bad. he has some positives, but he is bad.

he can't do as many fast combos anymore. he just isn't good.

Great argument. After that statement I'm quitting Fox, as I'm sure most all of you already have because of this.

On a serious note: I have a team of swift ninjas located in mimic_king's ceiling right now. They are ready to swiftly jump down out of the ceiling any moment, and cut him before he knows what is happening.

Don't put great arguments such as these in my thread anymore. You may get cut.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

@Veggi
Dair>some Utilts>Firefox........
idk seems kinda risky, even with FF theres still some like Tlink who can FF faster. maybe i'll play with it a bit when i get my Wii back. im gonna consider it a "flashy combo" for now.

 

[mimic_king]

Don't put great arguments such as these in my thread anymore. You may get cut.

yeah. sure

 

[goldemblem]

The best combo fox has it's drill>Utilt>Utilt>Utilt and then chase with Fair, if done at low % can rack around 60%, it's not a true combo but it's the way i can think of fox racking damage more quickly, also something i use from time to time it's drill>jab>Grab>Fthrow>Grab>Dthrow>Fair; that is around 40 or 50 %, I have to say these are not true combos but are a vital part of my fox game, i always see people wondering how the hell did they get so much damage, also if i can spam projectiles and avoid aproaching i always spam blaster, Fox has a hard time aproaching, the aproaches i use the most are dash, with shield canceled grab, if they throw a punch it goes to the shield, if they shield the grab will get them and if they short hop an attack it will get shielded, i sometimes also use Fair as an approach, but it generally sucks, I almost never approach and better search for an oppening

 

[-Mars-]

I approach with nair sometimes......*shrugs*it's kinda hard approaching with Fox, that's probably one of the main reaosns why he's not higher up on the tier list.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

other than Dair, Nair is the only other approach option thats relatively safe anyway.