Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Neb]

On another note, I like what Esc posted, one thing I took interest in on the Luigi match-up thread was the several vids packed into each match-up. I think it could better visually aid the reader if the player who's vs'ing the match-up knows what they're doing. Btw, 3 day reps sound good to me.

Oh and, OBM wants some numbers people!
I say 4/6 for MK.

 

[DarkStraw]

Ok i just played a good MK that was really spam up+b happy, i got pretty good at using Fair and bair to counter it, it just takes some practice. Usually when i use fmash i pull it out early as well, if he runs into it good, if he dosent then you usually have time to do something else before he attacks. Its hard to hit him with downsmash or fmash really. but i seemed to get more kills with fmash, got some nice kills with Fair.
felt pretty luck any time i got a smash on him, his moves are so quick its very hard to land any kind of smash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Personally, I feel this matchup is either 4/6 slightly in favor of MK, or even.

The main problem is MK can get in your face and be really hard to shake off, which sucks because G&W is slightly slow when it comes to pulling out attacks.

Honestly I wouldn't B-air quite as much in this matchup because the Tornado seems to beat it (if he Tornados, use something like an F-smash, Up-B, or Dash attack). I'd try to stay on the ground as much as possible, because naturally MK's ground game is easier to deal with than his air game since fortunately, your outrange him with D-tilts (but those get beaten by the Tornado, so be careful).

Also yeah, it's important to be able to ledgeguard MK effectively, since you can do that better than he can ledgeguard you since you have more priority and knockback than he does.

 

[omegablackmage]

alright, so i see what your saying about upping the amount of discussions per week, i just want to make sure there is ample time for everyone to post about the given match ups.

yeah the more i think about which characters have the best shot at beating the turtle (easily one of gw's more unpunishable tactics), the more i realize that speed and maneuverability are the few things that will beat it. MK has the speed, so i can imagine that a smart MK player that understands the limits of the turtle could probably punish it. That doesn't mean the matchup still isn't neutral, i still think it is, just probably not in gw's favor.

Neb do you mean 4/6 meta knight? what does 4/5 mean i think the numbers would need to add up to 10.

also the order will likely be (for the near future): snake, marth, dk, zss, olimar, diddy, ike, wolf because i think those are the toughest matchups in descending order

 

[Neb]

alright, so i see what your saying about upping the amount of discussions per week, i just want to make sure there is ample time for everyone to post about the given match ups.

yeah the more i think about which characters have the best shot at beating the turtle (easily one of gw's more unpunishable tactics), the more i realize that speed and maneuverability are the few things that will beat it. MK has the speed, so i can imagine that a smart MK player that understands the limits of the turtle could probably punish it. That doesn't mean the matchup still isn't neutral, i still think it is, just probably not in gw's favor.

Neb do you mean 4/6 meta knight? what does 4/5 mean i think the numbers would need to add up to 10.

also the order will likely be (for the near future): snake, marth, dk, zss, olimar, diddy, ike, wolf because i think those are the toughest matchups in descending order

Ooops, typo, I didn't look over my reply. I meant 4/6, sorry about that.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Whaaaaat stage ;---;
We don't have to limit ourselves to one day. If we hit a topic thats heavily discussed or controversial, then it should be extended. If it's fairly straightforward, we should just move on.

I'm on the fence. It's either 4/6 or 5/5 in my books.

 

[cutter]

I still say the matchup is 5/5 against MK.

 

[napZzz]

Well of course I'm not suprised what people are posting. Just about every character match up that comes up thats been discussed anywhere everyone thinks that "their" character can win because they dont want to say that the match up is favor of the other character and there is'nt much to do. So far after reading through these posts I have heard NOTHING but people saying g&w can easily handle these match ups, besides a few of the good g&w's like NoJ and hylian. And dont post something non related to helping out with the match up because people want to be able to read strategys or help with the match up, not something random you throw out about the characters that is no help. All I'm going to say is if you dont want to handle this match up then play DK. Actually, everyone should start playing DK as a side since he ***** MK and snake so bad.

 

[Ruuku]

Well of course I'm not suprised what people are posting. Just about every character match up that comes up thats been discussed anywhere everyone thinks that "their" character can win because they dont want to say that the match up is favor of the other character and there is'nt much to do. So far after reading through these posts I have heard NOTHING but people saying g&w can easily handle these match ups, besides a few of the good g&w's like NoJ and hylian. And dont post something non related to helping out with the match up because people want to be able to read strategys or help with the match up, not something random you throw out about the characters that is no help. All I'm going to say is if you dont want to handle this match up then play DK. Actually, everyone should start playing DK as a side since he ***** MK and snake so bad.

I've never said that I could easily handle this matchup. The very last line of my post clearly states that I would play as a different character against MK. I'm not going to read all other posts again but I think xYz is the only one saying that G&W counter-picks MK.

 

[xYz]

all im going to say is, if you're not beating average to above average MK's consistenly with you're GW... then something is wrong with how you're playing GW....

he is probably one of the highest counters for MK... and I will stand beside that.

 

[bebar]

I was playin my buddy's MK (hes pretty good) and i figured out to not smash at all, or very little. If i just did tilts and thing instead of using smashes its better. He is too fast to land a smash on. Oh and ive read XYZ say all this stuff about how G&W owning MK but no explainations. I would like to hear his strats.

 

[omegablackmage]

just because hylian or noj say something doesn't mean you should adopt it as your opinion.

 

[Neb]

Thank you for clearing that up, Mr. Omegablackmage, lol. By how it appears, they're probably the best known G&W players, but that doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion. They can't always be right.

 

[napZzz]

just because hylian or noj say something doesn't mean you should adopt it as your opinion.

what I'm trying to say is that these players have tournament experience and are good, and I'm just showing them as an example. Now feel free to correct me if any of you have professional level g&w experience and give me an opinion. I know xYz has but he hasnt said much other than how he counters him and everyone is stupid for not thinking so.

 

[xYz]

I have tourney exp since early melee days.
I have the best GW in the state of FL right now, and I am 3rd-5th some where in there on the power rankings for the whole state.

I play the best MK's back to back, who win tournaments big and small.

THEY DONT BEAT ME.... are you going to take advice from some guy named Darkstraw/etc who has probably never won a tournament, and has just joined in march... or me??
ok, then. i'm not going to go into details on the match up.. just read Ruuku's post... everything in there is valid on how GW counters MK.

sorry to sound rude, but these are the facts. 4/5 GW favor.

 

[omegablackmage]

its just upsets me that someone like noj can dictate that mk beats gw only because he loses to vidjo or something like that...

and because everyone thinks noj is amazing that must be true right?

i believe i gave good enough reasons in my post explaining why the matchup is at least neutral, yet you say i have to be wrong? theres no way you need to switch characters for this...

 

[Moosecalibur]

Geez, quit whining like babies, and I agree with Omegablackmage because MK is faster than G&W but if G&W nails ANY hits on MK, MK goes flying due to lightness and overpowered knockback...

 

[doodmahn]

Out of personal experience, I'd say the matchup is around 55/45 in MK's favor, but not really enough to call it a true advantage. (I could be wrong, I haven't really read the MK part of this thread yet and haven't really faced many MKs, but it is hard to hit those little... people, that's for sure.)

EDIT: I think it should go like this:
X >> G&W: 6 days (There isn't any, and hopefully there never will be any.)
X > G&W: 5 days
X = G&W: 4 days
X < G&W: 3 days
X << G&W: 2 days.

 

[omegablackmage]

Meta Knight: (5/5)

General Matchup:

• Meta Knight is a much faster character than GW in almost every situation. The startup time on his attacks are lower, the ending/landing lag on his attacks are lower, runs/trots faster, and he can glide. All of these factors will probably lead to MK players being able to out maneuver GW's.
• MK has a fair amount of priority on most of his attacks, however GW will likely have more most of the time.
• MK's b moves prove to be exceptionally annoying. His mach tornado (neutral b) grants him excessive amounts of priority, maneuverability, and damage dealing ability. His forward b allows him to recover to the stage often unchallenged due to high priority and his up b is incredibly fast and strong while allowing him to glide/glide attack which is also quite strong and difficult to punish.
• Although usually considered to be bad at landing kills, MK has enough options to give gw trouble. The dsmash is an extremely fast smash attack that, when fresh, can easily kill gw in the early 100's, maybe sooner depending on the situation. The up b and glide attack, when used near the edge, can kill gw very early as well.
• Other than straight kills, it is also possible for MK's to edgeguard with the dair far off the stage. He can also grab the edge just as you try to up b to it and then use his own up b near the edge to send you back out, which can be difficult to avoid at times.
• Edgeguarding MK usually involves aggressive use of the up b and forward air off the stage to score quick kills. On some stages it is also possible to stage spike MK with the dash attack near the ledge if they are trying to up from below. Making use of the up air will also help gw to control MK's position.
• MK will often be able to combo game and watch a reasonable amount, usually from grab to fair setups, dtilts, up airs, up b's, and even tornado's.
• GW has no particular problem comboing MK, although it may be easier for him to DI out of your multi-hitting attacks easier because he has a smaller frame.

General Strategies:

• Keep in mind that MK has no projectiles to force you into an aggressive stance. He will usually have to come to you, which, if you make good use of moves like the dtilt, will put him in a bad position.
• If a MK player begins to spam the tornado often, there are a lot of options. Moves such as the dash attack, forward smash, down smash, and back air are known to be able to take MK out of the tornado from the side if used correctly. The dair will always hit him out of it from above. If you up b right next to MK then you can pop him way up into the air forcing him to be in freefall animation, which should allow him to be punished with a smash. If you get caught in the tornado you can either mash up b (this will shoot him way up about half the time) or try to di upwards out of it and then air dodge.
• Remember that you have more range and priority with your fair, bair, and dair when battling him in the air, which you should use to your advantage when encountering him here.
• On the ground, most MK players will approach with dash attacks or dash grabs, both of which are very quick. This can be countered by the even faster dtilt, which will knock them away to be chased for a dash attack or a grab even.
• Learn to combo with the neutral air and up b will as this will rack up a lot of much needed damage in the matchup. Also, the downthrow to dsmash combo will often work if they don't tech, and if they do learn to chase with an up smash, which will kill quite early.
• Up air their recovery and attempts, tornado, forward b, or down b in the air. This will put them in awful situations that usually end in well charged smashes.
• Learn the situations that meta knight players are likely to dsmash in. This is the move you need to avoid the most. Usually they will do it after glide attack canceling, when they think they can hit your shield and not be punished, or they will begin to use it a lot as your percent rises. Keep an eye out for it as it can kill very early.
• When recovering, recover very low to avoid dair and up b swats that can cut your lives very short.
• Only challenge the glide attack with a back air, as its the only move that will work consistently against it. It looks very predictable, but that doesn't mean a fsmash will go through it. GW players will find themselves dieing very early from this move if they challenge it the wrong way as its quite strong.

Stages:

• Corneria, if on, will work well as it has a short ceiling (gw has more upward killing attacks than mk) and you can fin camp/infinite as well. Stay in the middle if you need to avoid getting killed and your at high percents.
• Personal preference is a very big deal here. Work on the stages that you feel the most comfortable on as GW and MK will often look for the same things in stages.
• Avoid stages with enclosed areas like Luigi's Mansion as the tornado become quite annoying here.

 

[DavieBoy]

My views on Snake...

4/6 - Snakes Favor

Snake is one of the most popular choices in brawl at the moment so I suggest to everyone to practice against him and know what you can do to make this match up eraser. My style against snake is to play very aggressive, always stay in his face. The reason behind this is so the Snake player dose not get time to set up his great defense game with grenades and his Down-B (forgot the name). Even if a Snake player dose not have time to set up his camping game by no means dose this become an easy match up. Snake has a very good close game, his A jab combo is very good, along with some of the best tilts in the entire game - Up Tilt and Froward Tilt are both extremely strong.

With all of Snakes advantages over others he is very beatable. First off learn to DI out of his Jab combo, the final attack on it can KO and is very strong - by avoiding this you get a perfect chance to catch him off guard. Always be ready to shield when he is close, you can shield grab his F-tilt and U-tilt so always be ready to do so. Your best friends in this match up are going to be B-air and D-air. Both can out prioritize his U-smash which is often used to mortar slide, and I believe they also out prioritize his tilts. Once a Snake player is in the air make sure to use N-air, U-air, Up-B to keep him up there but watch out for that down-B bomb! Your best way to get KOs on him is by edge guarding, F-air is the key here, always be ready to hit him out of his Up-B.

This is simply how I play against snake, keep aggressive so he wont be able to set up his defense game - and use solid edge guarding to pick up the KOs. Hope this helps a little bit.

 

[Ulevo]

Awesome discussion thread omega, I'm impressed again. I'd like to contribute, but despite me picking up G&W quickly I don't think I can give you an informed opinion on anything that hasn't already been stated. I'll come back later and put in my 2 ¢ though.

 

[cutter]

I play against a relatively good Snake a lot, so here's what I've learned from the matchup:
- Key > Mortar
- Use Dtilt/Dash attack/Turtle to block his dash attack
- I really don't like using Chef too much because of grenades and Nikita. It's good for clearing the claymores though.
- Get Snake into the air. He seems to get caught a lot in Nair (maybe it's just me though)
- Once Snake is off the edge, don't hold back. Hurt him as much as possible, especially with Fairs.

 

[Neb]

Lol, I tested this out just for laughs. But, yeah, G&W can Omnigay Snake, haha. Snake just needs to have a grenade at hand, and on his double jump, you uair, its pretty neat, :/.

Btw.
+Keying mortar is solid, but its safer to only smash through singles, not when he spams.
If your recovering against an usmash spam, use nair, bairs also pretty trusty.
+Any air thrown hand grenades, get rid of them with uair.
+D-tilt against Mortar Slide does great justice.
+Its better to shield or air-dodge Nikita, unless your in a tight squeeze, vertically reflect it with Key.
+Remember to memorize his remote C4 plants.
+Juggling Snake is effective for the most part, just watch out for those aerial-activated C4.
+As said above, detonate claymores in a blaze of greasy fat from Chef.

 

[napZzz]

just dont play aggresive with snake, thats an idiotic thing to do. Staying close to him will just get you tilted. Dont try to pick a close combat fight with this powerhouse. I think Neb pointed out some pretty major points, except uair'ing the nades wont do anything if the snake is cooking them right. And the only way to get through the nikita is to do an air dodge going forward through it or shielding. Becuse if you do a spot dodge or stationary air dodge when the animation is done it will still hit you because of its slow speed. And remember....bout 90% up....Expect the utilt and be very careful to dodge it and counter attack..rolling behind snake isnt really something smart to do either btw.

 

[Neb]

Gagh, Snake is so friggen broken, who the heck kills people with tilts and jab combo's, I mean seriously! Its just not fair, lol.

...but anyway.

NEW DISCOVERY!

Alrighty, so I was seeing if GaW had anymore defenses against Snakes projectile medley, and I found nothing. Well that is besides that Judgment 9 completely disintegrates a Nikita, but it blows up right in your face, as most of you know.

BUT! I did find something pretty bizarre. So here it is.
Okay, if Snake plants a land mine, we all know that Chef, can cook-it, correct? Only problem is, is that the foods come out at random, which leaves you open while your trying to toss accurately.

Yet there is an alternative, and Mr. Esc is going to enjoy this, ^_^b.
So, I go up to a land mine, and just randomly pull out my empty bucket, and to my surprise the mine automatically detonates!? Its as if the bucket sends out a shock wave of some sort, or spills an invisible oil slick over the space (lol, like the classic Flat Zone?). The distance it works is just about the size of the gas splash from Oil panic, which is like a G&W and a half. Try it out, it could be a good mindgame to barbecue roast cobra's, and it saves your flat a** from being blown sky high, without even having to be in bair distance. This can work out of a short-hop as well.

Hope this isn't already known, :/.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I have very limited experience against Snake as none of my friends play as him and the computer does him no justice. However, it does seem as if his weakest point is his aerial game. Snake can camp G&W easily and G&W has no reliable projectile, so I'm not entirely sure how you fight Snake without making it close quarters.

From what I hear, Snakes like to pull out a grenade and shield to stop the turtle approach, but I don't see why you still can't jump forward, turtle, and DI back so that you only hit the top of Snake but not the ground where the grenade is.

I also find it especially important to keep your kill moves fresh against Snake as he's very heavy.

 

[Patsie]

This has gone over, but from my limited tourney experience against them:

Be as safe as possible. Snake has an incredible ability to rack up damage with his forward tilt combo. His utilt, as people know, is one of the most insanely overpowered things in the game: very fast, obnoxiously large and unpredictable hitbox, and has incredible KO power for it's speed. I was almost exclusively KOd by it during tourneys.

So basically: you can't fight Snake up close and you can't fight Snake from afar because of grenades and nikita.

My solution is to constantly approach while using the safest options available. I find that bairs work wonders against Snakes, only if used correctly. Against the majority of the cast, I DI towards my opponent while using the turtle. Against Snake, I start moving away once I get the first few hits in to avoid his tilts. I also like approaching with fairs that retreat after hitting him. Even if you whif, I found that Snakes normally try to initiate their tilts, at which point you can run and and either dash attack or a shield-cancelled grab.

Don't try to fight Snake on the ground. This is one of the few match-ups where I will probably not dthrow after grabbing because his grenades and mines (along with the lack of reliable dthrow > move combo because of his weight) will interrupt any combo potential. Keep Snake in the air as much as possible. No Snake is going to try to approach you with aerials; your aerial game dominates his. He will always be looking to go to the ground. As such, anticipate airdodges! Nair him until he learns to predict and airdodge, then wait and punish appropriately (maybe with a DC upsmash) to keep him in the air.

Basically: He dominates you on the ground. His groundgame nullifies all of G&W's fantastic smashes. Your only ground option is dtilt in this matchup, but the preferred approach is aerials. Once you get him in the air, try to keep him there. He will not try to land with an aerial, so anticipate the airdodge and punish.

It's a rough matchup but it's winnable.

**For some reason, hammers seem to connect a lot on Snakes after a SH. That might just be me though.

EDIT: Looks like it's been mentioned, but the almighty key takes away Snake's upsmash for when you're in the air. Use it and love it.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

all i can say is watch out for that Utilt, yikes

 

[Needle of Juntah]

oh here

Minus the SD's and i win easy. luckily i won the set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KmUjrJCU8

 

[Patsie]

oh here

Minus the SD's and i win easy. luckily i won the set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KmUjrJCU8

Lies, you were a utilt away on both SD stocks

 

[omegablackmage]

ok this is my best matchup in the game, because everyone in new england plays snake, including the best snakes around (cort and pc).

first of all, if you try to be near snake, you'll die, simple as that. I've seen pc and cort deal like 60 damage in one close combat combo, which is devastating. Basically if the snake player is any good they will do combinations of the first to jabs, the ftilt knee, and grab to dthrows to deal insane amounts of damage. Also as you know, uptilt will kill you at like 80 dmg... for your own sake, stay the f away from snake.

use your spacing extremely well. if your range your turtle against their sheild you can land and sheild before they can get an ftilt or a mortar slide out. If they ftilt your shield you can sh a bair fast enough to hit them thus punishing them for an ftilt (finally someone can do it!). dtilt works sometimes to cancel out the ftilt, but i think the ftilt might be 1 frame faster or some miniscule amount.

set your spacing up at distances, a lot of snake players love to mortar slide when at a medium distance, have a fsmash waiting for them, trust me that works.

grenades are too easy to avoid to worry about. people think snakes away game is amazing, but its really only mediocre at best. you know when the grenades will explode, so just airdodge, etc. Just watch for mortar slides really.

**** his recovery with nine hammers or fairs (i do this more cuz its more consistent, although hammers 4 through 9 i think will knock him out of his up b). If they go mid height recovery-wise, then fair or hammer, if they go low near the stage then grab him or spike if he's just far enough away to be grabbed. If he goes too high, then use your up air as he's coming down to throw him off, or if you think you can land it, get an up b in there, its tough to dodge.

snake can't really edge guard you at all. The only thing i've seen that might work is a run off bair (you have to be recovering away from the stage for it to maybe work, so just learn to hug the stage when up-b'ing) or a ledgehog and then a dj aerial when you land, but those both only work sometimes at best.

get your kills with smashes obviously, but im pretty sure that the fsmash seems to work the best against snake... move's just too quick.

learn your freakin nair/upair/uptilt combos, those help to rack up damage, which you need badly.

avoid the uptilt... for your sake. they will kill you with this 80% of the time, other 20 is random moves like ftilt, bair, nair etc.

from what i can see, good snake players don't dsmash or mine on the stage unless they are stickying. if they have c4 on the stage and get knocked off its gunna be bad news for them. dmash is just too slow imo, so i would just grab them just as they are done putting it down, they get hit by the explosion (depending on controller port?) and i combo with nairs after for lots of damage.

i recently beat cort (one of the best snakes in the nation, it was really friggin close, but reguardless) at the last tournament, so i have a great deal of experience in this matchup. I personally feel that its neutral, actually more neutral that mk now, i think snake does better, but this one is like dead on 50/50, whereas i think mk is like 53/47 or something like that in gw's favor : ) hit me up for questions

 

[napZzz]

if you beat cort....then everything you said must be true!

 

[Neb]

if you beat cort....then everything you said must be true!

Lol, now we know how Nappy thinks.
xD

 

[napZzz]

stop the snake discussion right now and move on...omega has spoken!

 

[Neb]

Agreed, lol, if you beat Cort with this info, then it must be proof.
Onto......who's next?

 

[cutter]

lol... mob mentality ftw.

Anyway I've done a lot of what OBM has said in my previous games against Snake. This matchup is indeed very, very even.

When you get into the 90% range, expect Utilt, because Snakes will want to kill you fast.

Personally, I'd like to do Olimar next; I've been having problems against a very good Olimar that beats me pretty good most of the time. The thing that irks me the most is his constant camping and baiting with throwing pikmin from different heights to get around my Dtilt. He'll have a grab or smash waiting for me if I try approaching; it's tough. I've had success though getting him into the air and then using aerials, especially Nair to pile on damage.

I'll talk more about this matchup later, but I'd like to have a solid gameplan against Olimar since I'll be going to a big tourney on the 4th of July.

However, if we do either Marth or DK instead, that's fine by me as well. I have a little under 2 weeks to prepare, so I'm not too worried yet.

 

[omegablackmage]

ha ha, you know i didn't mean it that way, stop being an *** lol

i just meant that i actually have some valid experience in the matchup against really good snakes.

 

[keeper]

lol... mob mentality ftw.

Anyway I've done a lot of what OBM has said in my previous games against Snake. This matchup is indeed very, very even.

When you get into the 90% range, expect Utilt, because Snakes will want to kill you fast.

Personally, I'd like to do Olimar next; I've been having problems against a very good Olimar that beats me pretty good most of the time. The thing that irks me the most is his constant camping and baiting with throwing pikmin from different heights to get around my Dtilt. He'll have a grab or smash waiting for me if I try approaching; it's tough. I've had success though getting him into the air and then using aerials, especially Nair to pile on damage.

I'll talk more about this matchup later, but I'd like to have a solid gameplan against Olimar since I'll be going to a big tourney on the 4th of July.

However, if we do either Marth or DK instead, that's fine by me as well. I have a little under 2 weeks to prepare, so I'm not too worried yet.

Key>Olimar's Usmash
The turtle eats pikmin too. If a Pikmin gets on you, I recommend short hopping and doing a nair.

As for Snake. I haven't had too much trouble with any, especially considering that the key goes through mortars.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm really glad Snake has been covered, as I live in New England and my first Tournament is in three days :D
I expect to get thrashed R1, but whatever.
Lots of snakes.

Stages:

Rainbow Cruise: Probably my counterpick against any Snakes and it's pretty obvious why; The moving layout ruins Snakes stage control game and forces him into the air more than they would like. On the boat, he may control is for a bit, but he's limited to the far left, for fear of the wall and the small side on the right. After this, the vertical rise can really mess him up. Typically, smart Snakes will move with their upB so you can't grab them. During this phase, the limited space and the rising forces them to move to the very little ground there is, giving you grab scenarios. The one bad thing about this stage is the open area at the top of the stage. The ceiling is VERY low here, so avoid confronting him if you can. Utilt and Mortar Sliding is scary on this long stretch. Uthrow -> Uair can score some nice kills as it descends. Overall, good stage if you know you're way about it.

Jungle Japes: This is an interesting choice, as it has the second highest ceiling after New Pork City. Yeah, this helps as a counterpick as it gives you a longer life expectancy versus his deadly Utilt. The water does a number on him if he ever finds himself there, which is actually much more likely than you ending there. Con's of this would be the overall stage control he can hold over JJ's platforms. The mines can be detonated from under the stage as well as above, so be wary. The edges are close to the side platforms, so just be aware.

Other stage choices include Norfair, Delphino, and Frigate.
Rainbow Cruise is the best CP.
AVOID Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion.

 

[Neb]

Seriously, Rainbow Cruise is like a perfect counter pick for Snake. But Frigate, are you sure? I mean there's moving platforms, and other strange components to the stage that could somewhat stretch Snake's mine reach, and maneuverability. He basically gets a wider range of map to control, right?

And I think Marth, Olimar, or Falco should be next on the list.