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Ganondorf's Video & Video Critique Thread [Current Critique - MBmoney]

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DLA

DLA

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Remember the golden rule of Smash: Don't jump into the ****. Ganondorf is a character with very limited approach options. If you just run in and start swinging, you're going to get punished.

My main advice is to just stop getting hit so much. You got hit by almost every projectile launched at you, and you got hit by a lot of ground moves that shouldn't have had a chance to connect. Try working on shielding, or better yet, powershielding, especially against projectiles. Dash + Powershield is Ganon's best option for dealing with projectiles.

Also, believe it or not, the more defensive you are, the more intimidating you are to your opponent. If you rush in and attack, you're playing into your opponent's strength (rather, you're giving your opponent the advantage by ignoring Ganon's weakness). If make them attack first, then they live in constant fear of getting stomped or flame choked - either one giving them 20+ damage. If your opponent is intimidated, they'll play more safely, which means you get to live longer.

A few more things - practice your Gerudo followups, practice edgeguarding with reverse Uair (especially off the edge - drop off Uair and drop off -> double jump -> uair are great ways to edgeguard). That's all I can think of right now... keep practicing
 
Hobs

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Alright, thanks for the advice.
But what if THEY don't want to approach first? What if they just jump up and down spamming projectiles?
That's when you say powershield and dash? But that's approaching still?

Right now, I'm thinking I have to pseudo-approach, and punish their baited reaction... ?
 
DLA

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Well Ganon is naturally at a large disadvantage against players who do this. You just gotta dash and powershield until you reach the point when they can no longer use projectiles safely, depending on how close you are. This is when you attack. Use whatever mindgames in your arsenal to punish them.
 
S

Superspright

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Ganon has 0 approach. In order to play at any semblance of a competitive level you have to bait and approach at the SAME TIME. Ganon is extremely hard to play, and probably impossible to master. If you are approaching falco. You have to keep in mind he has phantasm, and his reflector which are both attacks that can be nonpunishable if they use them correctly. But, it's still best to not let him spam his lasers. Walking PS's work best. But still, as Ganon you must be a constant threat, and always defensive. Trying to rush someone down with Ganon or be aggressive with him is counter-productive to his only truly viable strategy: bait and punish. If he had an approach, he'd be deadly.
 
DunnoBro

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Alright, here's a few.

One of me in the finals of a martial arts tourney(no projectile users) Against wiipals.net's best falcon user.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Gq737x4T4

Here's one of me in the first match of a speed run tourney with my ganon against a falcon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu284KfQsA8

II only saved it cause it was kinda interesting... I ended up winning the entire tourney, but had to switch to wario once olimars and falcos came up. D: I ain't that good with ganon yet...

A after tourney match friendly with my ganon against Akira's mk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn5hGHqDMdo
(i used wario for the real match so that's why it isn't shown)

And a lulzy friendly... Done way long ago though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXkQIuJ4QtE

And before anyone tells me, yes wiipals.net isn't exactly full of quality brawlers
Do have a few greats though, haven, san, nappy, etc.
 
Legendary Pikachu

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I secondary a lot of characters and Ganon happens to be on of them. I hope i can learn a lot from you guys. I rely mainly on reading my opponent's moves before they make them--I can't say I know too many technical things and strategies that ganon can do.

my fights that have been recorded (none wifi):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm8oi8eN9p8 ~ vs. WERK... the best (ONLY) samus in NC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NJJM7dzSCg ~ vs. Arc-thefallen-... one of the best/better TL's in the East Coast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NJJM7dzSCg ~ vs. Arc-thefallen- on a bad day ^_^.

Doubles~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRh9yJFQp4I
 
S

Superspright

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Legendary Pikachu. Stop dairing so much. It can be punished on shield--against Samus you have to be very patient and space properly. Choke can lead to some great follow ups as well, but I didn't see any in that video. You got pretty schooled.

I'll leave a more detailed critique to someone else. You have a lot to work on though.
 
napZzz

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breezys ganon is sick.

sometimes he makes me wonder if ganon is really THAT bad.
 
Hobs

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@MBmoney
1:26
2:06
4:10
5:23
Notice anything? Maybe some sort of pattern? Maybe with each damage %?
Don't grab synced ICs with a big lunky one like Ganon's flame choke. Either yo'll be punished by Nana for it; or worse, you grab Nana, give no damage, and get hit by Popo.
Also, remember if you ledgehop u-air, you can gerudo to snap back to the ledge without using dark dive.
 
MBmoney

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Hobs said:
@MBmoney
1:26
2:06
4:10
5:23
Notice anything? Maybe some sort of pattern? Maybe with each damage %?
Don't grab synced ICs with a big lunky one like Ganon's flame choke. Either yo'll be punished by Nana for it; or worse, you grab Nana, give no damage, and get hit by Popo.
Also, remember if you ledgehop u-air, you can gerudo to snap back to the ledge without using dark dive.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know how bad it is to flame choke and grab IC as Ganon, it was just somewhat of a habit for me to use it to punish landing lag or after a short hop upair. They were somewhat done involuntarily.

Also I always forget about Gerudo to snap back to ledge. You're right there. Thanks.
 
DunnoBro

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powerhouse said:
Alright, here's a few.

One of me in the finals of a martial arts tourney(no projectile users) Against wiipals.net's best falcon user.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Gq737x4T4

Here's one of me in the first match of a speed run tourney with my ganon against a falcon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu284KfQsA8

II only saved it cause it was kinda interesting... I ended up winning the entire tourney, but had to switch to wario once olimars and falcos came up. D: I ain't that good with ganon yet...

A after tourney match friendly with my ganon against Akira's mk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn5hGHqDMdo
(i used wario for the real match so that's why it isn't shown)

And a lulzy friendly... Done way long ago though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXkQIuJ4QtE

And before anyone tells me, yes wiipals.net isn't exactly full of quality brawlers
Do have a few greats though, haven, san, nappy, etc.
Click to expand...

Where's mah critique?
 
Ray_Kalm

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This is all judging from the first video.

When you're further away from your opponent, it's a lot safer to just react than to carelessly throw out moves. You'd only want to 'throw' a move out at closer range to lure your opponent into something.

You tried clashing into Zigsta's moves a lot, and you were over challenging your range. Not a nice thing to do, especially when fighting a character who can capitalize at closer range much safer than Ganon.

I didn't see you do anything surprising out of flame choke to Bowser. Bowser is one of the few characters who Ganon can take huge advantage of with flame choke. Piss poor rolls, get-up attack, and spotdodge.

Out of curiosity, what was the move you did at 1:05 (first video)?
 
PhantomX

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Yeah, the first round I was getting more of a feel for the matchup and his hitboxes, I abused Bowser quite a bit more in the following rounds (first time playing one), including his huge hurtbox. 1:05 is an upair, hit with the startup.

Something you'll see me do a lot if I post full sets (and with any of my charas) is that in the first round in particular I'll test out what's guaranteed from side b (ftilt isn't, sadface), and then do a lot of autocanceled stuff to see how they react so I can capitalize on it later.

I'll keep the reactionary thing in mind. I'm just not very patient as it were, sadly, and I'm used to playing Wario, who goads opponents into doing things XD
 
TP

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I watched match 2. First and foremost, too little Uair. There were various points at which it would clearly be safer than what you chose (especially one time when you went for a Dair spike). Second, work on your wizkick timing. You went for one and got shield grabbed. You should pretty much never do a grounded wizkick when they are on or near the ground. Only do it when they are coming down, so that you will either hit them or, if they airdodge, WKC and punish. Thirdly, don't forget about ledgedrop DJ airdodge as your absolute fastest way to get rid of RCO. You got nailed for trying to go offensive while carrying RCO. Really good video overall though.
 
PhantomX

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WHAT? We lose our RCO if we grab the ledge after airdodging, or do we have to land on the stage? If it's the former, I can't BELIEVE I never knew that, lol.
 
TP

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You misunderstand me. You have to land on the stage. The best way to do that is by airdodging up from the ledge.
 
PhantomX

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I thought airdodges didn't get rid of RCO? Airdodging when close to the edge of the stage while being edgeguarded after using a DJ against Ganon is also SUPER dangerous.
 
Sovereign

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Great kills in the third match. Why you kept trying to Utilt and WP I would never know. The first Utilt seemed very well placed compared to the rest, since he was forced to back away.

Halberd is not a good stage for Ganon, but you did particularly well during the floating platform section. Those inclines on the primary platform, hurt Ganon's AC moves a lot, and getting around that is pretty hard.

I would like to see you Dtilt more, since the range is highly underestimated.
 
PhantomX

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Sovereign said:
Great kills in the third match. Why you kept trying to Utilt and WP I would never know. The first Utilt seemed very well placed compared to the rest, since he was forced to back away.

Halberd is not a good stage for Ganon, but you did particularly well during the floating platform section. Those inclines on the primary platform, hurt Ganon's AC moves a lot, and getting around that is pretty hard.

I would like to see you Dtilt more, since the range is highly underestimated.
Click to expand...
I've actually always thought it's really good for Ganon b/c he has way more vertical kill moves than horizontal ones. Haha, the random uptilts and warlock punches are just a thing I do. The former actually tend to land once in a while, the latter not so much :(

The inclines aren't nearly as terrible as Yoshi's island or Lylat.

Sorry TP :(
 
A2ZOMG

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Generally speaking, I don't think you use enough D-tilt, which can be used to punish Bowser's whiffed ground moves fairly easily.

Also 0:38 in the 2nd match, Bowser made a mistake in rolling away when a getup attack would have pushed you off the edge, but either way good read.

Otherwise I don't have much else to say, it was overall solid gameplay.

And TP, the airdodge getup sucks if you have RCO. It's only good for edgeguarding (punish people who Up-B on stage) and for getting up after ledgestalling someone from their respawn invincibility.
 
Sovereign

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PhantomX said:
I've actually always thought it's really good for Ganon b/c he has way more vertical kill moves than horizontal ones. Haha, the random uptilts and warlock punches are just a thing I do. The former actually tend to land once in a while, the latter not so much :(

The inclines aren't nearly as terrible as Yoshi's island or Lylat.

Sorry TP :(
Click to expand...
I actually prefer YI for Ganon over that floating platform on Halberd, since it helps with his Choke combos.

BTW, we should make a Choke Chain Tier list, giving our Ganon users incentive to achieve higher choke chains.

example:

1. Flame Choke
2. Murder Choke
3. Strangle Hold
So on and so on...

Anyone like the idea?
 
PhantomX

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Alright, so I'm going to need general pointers on when it's good to use dtilt? I find it kind of slow and clunky sometimes so I tend to forget about it >_< Like I know its range is great, and I use it often enough against grounded characters, but it's one of those moves I often end up overlooking (especially since people can grab/hit your leg if they shield/dodge it, wtf?).

Should I use it mostly as a punish move?
 
Sovereign

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On big characters like Bowser it can be used after Flame Choke, and then chained into another Flame Choke - Dtilt.
 
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