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Heavy plus speed???

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
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This is the appropriate conclusion, however I am against nerfing these characters. I would like to see the meta develop further first, but since new patches are inevitable with the coming with dlc characters, I would rather have the low tiers buffed. Nintendo hasn't seemed to keen on this though, *sigh*.
I agree.

The key issue I see here (and the reason I feel it's never going to get better for heavies) is that we'd basically need to see Project M-esque changes for heavies to ever really rise in tiers in the face of characters like Shiek. Those changes, however, would massively overpower heavies in casual play, which is 90% of all SSB play, so we'd never see it happen.

Even if EVERYONE got buffed, heavies would still be combo food, thus negating their primary advantage.
 
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Big-Cat

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Nerfing high and buffing low isn't the answer. Other developers don't go with that either.
 

S_B

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Nerfing high and buffing low isn't the answer. Other developers don't go with that either.
What DO they do, then?

And by "other developers", I'm not sure what you mean because I've watched the developers of many, MANY games do exactly this for years...

Street Fighter 4, Team Fortress 2, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Tera, Aion, FFXIV, etc...

If a class/character is overperforming, it gets nerfed. Underperforming ones get buffed. And they're usually quicker to nerf than they are to buff, which seems to be Sakurai's strategy, thus far...
 
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MagiusNecros

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Play footsies, bait them, go in, etc. That's how you deal with characters.
Or hit them with Jab 15 times and Ftilt them at the edge like a loser. Easier said then done like the above post.

Oh I miss vectoring. Made Bowser nigh unkillable. Sorta kinda.
 

S_B

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The other idea I'd have for buffing Bowser (and heavies at large) is simply reducing the ending lag on some moves.

Some heavies' attacks are so laggy that they're basically useless. Aerial Bowser bomb, for example, is terrible because it has an incredibly long startup time AND an incredibly long lag afterwards if Bowser lands on the stage.

Most heavies have a great grab game (except for Dorfasauras Rex, I mean...). It'd be even greater if the punishment for a whiffed grab wasn't as severe and they could act out of it faster (though this might be too strong in the grand scheme...).

The best part about simply reducing endlag on certain moves would be that it's less likely to overpower heavies in casual play as casual players aren't going to be frame-perfect or anything even close, not even realizing that there's extra potential they're not taking advantage of.

It doesn't have to be much: just a few frames here and there could really make a difference collectively.
 
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trombonophone99

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Ultimately I don't think merely talking about buffs/nerfs will change anything. Not here anyway. Maybe someone will make another PM for Sm4sh. When was PM released to the public? Like what year?
 

redcometchar

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Ultimately I don't think merely talking about buffs/nerfs will change anything. Not here anyway. Maybe someone will make another PM for Sm4sh. When was PM released to the public? Like what year?
Hahaha we can wish right? The only reason pm was possible is because wii modding had progressed too a point where tools were available for creating files and by the presence of an exploit to load those files with a default console.

Problems for a sm4sh PM:
1. Because the game is subject to updates, any exploit that will allow users to load files from an external memory source with a default console will be removed by nintendo.
2. As of now the tools for modding files on the scale of pm do not exist.
3. We do not know what constitutes of nintendos system integrity checks on the wii u, so modded consoles are an unknown.

Not all is lost, however. Reasons why pm can exist in sm4sh:
1.If an exploit is found like the one in brawl it will be possble to remove updates from the system memory to reset the game to a state where the exploit worked.
2. Wii u modding is beginning to show promise. Methods like browser exploits are begging to appear to allow programs like homebrew to be installed.
3. There is a tool out now that may lend itselft to developing the files needed for the project. It is called cafiine. It reads the files the wii u is loading, and gives you the opportunity to replace those files with a different file. It has been used for mario cart modding.
4. Gecko may yet make an appearance on wii u.
5. Recently a user discoverd a method to replace music files on the 3ds.

If you really want pm to exist get off your couch and get to work!
 
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trombonophone99

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@ redcometchar redcometchar Oh no don't get me wrong; I love Smash 4. There are just some things I wish were different. In fact, huge kudos to the PM team for putting so much dedication in their work only to be overshadowed by sm4sh.
 
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L9999

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I main Ganondorf i play as him like 80% of the time. My 2nd main is DK

Imo all Ganon needs is seriously frigging more range on his grab...you can only grab someone if they are litreally touching Ganondorf.

I would rather him not have a speed buff because he would feel less like Ganon.
But if anything if its not too much to make him too good.

Abit less ending lag on FAir and or DAir would be extremely helpful.

Know how to play Ganon properly and you will do alot better i win like 80% of for glory games with him but yh...as soon as you comes across a very good ZSS/Yoshi/Rosalina/Pikachu
Your pretty much screwed

This is a video of me vs a good Falcon on for glory.


https://youtu.be/rrqQoMzhOgw
That Up Tilt....
 
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