Q&A How Do I Penguin? King Dedede Q&A Thread

[shrooby]

Got a quick question about Dedede? Post here and have it answered!

If you're new to Dedede, I'd highly recommend watching the Dedede Video Guide put together by @ Soul Train . It's an excellent watch, and most of your questions will probably be answered.

If the same questions get asked frequently, then this post will also be made into an FAQ.

But, until then, ask away!

 

[JSConrad45]

So, last few days, I've fought a number of Captain Falcons that, when I went for the ol' jab-jab-grab, jabbed out of it between my jab1 and jab2. I knew Yoshi could do that, but I've never seen it from Captain Falcon. Is this new, or has it always been possible and I'm just now seeing it?

Edit: also, any other characters that can get out of jab-jab for free? I've had Marth/Lucina counter between them, and Little Mac neutral-B between them.

 

[Soul Train]

So, last few days, I've fought a number of Captain Falcons that, when I went for the ol' jab-jab-grab, jabbed out of it between my jab1 and jab2. I knew Yoshi could do that, but I've never seen it from Captain Falcon. Is this new, or has it always been possible and I'm just now seeing it?

Edit: also, any other characters that can get out of jab-jab for free? I've had Marth/Lucina counter between them, and Little Mac neutral-B between them.

Good question. This has been possible since the beginning - and is the reason D3's Jab1 -> Jab 2 -> repeat is not an infinite. There are ~5-6 frames after Jab 2 hits in which opponents can input a command like shield, dodge, or attack. In the case of Falcon, his jab comes out on frame 3, so it hits before ours does. Most Counters come out on Frame 5, so they can squeeze in there if mashed.

Of course a ton of this depends on spacing. The hammer hits quicker on opponents closer to you, and a few frames later at the edges of its hitbox. My Wii U is in the shop right now, otherwise I'd test this and get you specifics. Does that answer your question?

 

[JSConrad45]

Good question. This has been possible since the beginning - and is the reason D3's Jab1 -> Jab 2 -> repeat is not an infinite. There are ~5-6 frames after Jab 2 hits in which opponents can input a command like shield, dodge, or attack. In the case of Falcon, his jab comes out on frame 3, so it hits before ours does. Most Counters come out on Frame 5, so they can squeeze in there if mashed.

I know about after jab2, but to clarify, these Falcons have been jabbing me after jab1. As in, jab1 connects, but before jab2 does, Falcon jabs me. I've seen Yoshi do that (and Marcina counter, and Mac neutral-B) since the beginning, but not Falcon; I had thought jab-jab-grab was a pretty reliable option in that matchup if you kept the spacing right, but now I can't even get jab-jab.

 

[Soul Train]

Ah gotcha. Yep, D3's jab frame data is bad...and opponents can escape at certain distances. First make sure you're not tapping the A button. If you hold it down, training mode registers it as a combo (the first two hits). However - this is not applicable at all distances. Too far or too close and it won't combo. Go to training and try it.

 

[JSConrad45]

I always hold, never ever tap. I don't know what's going on; it's happened at my usual spacing (where the whole hammerhead connects on jab1, so they'll be close enough after jab2 to grab). I feel like nothing means anything anymore. I mean I've been doing this just fine since October, and suddenly it's failing every time (until Captain is at high enough % to not touch the ground after jab1, but at that point getting the grab is dicey).

Although I could've sworn that training mode never registered jab-jab as a combo. I'll have to try it again when I get the chance; my memory isn't the most reliable about things like that.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

So it's really that important to hold and not tap the first two hits of the jab? I've never had a ton of success the jab, jab, into mixups...

 

[Soul Train]

So it's really that important to hold and not tap the first two hits of the jab? I've never had a ton of success the jab, jab, into mixups...

Tapping can technically be just as reliable. But..online, inputs can really get messed up, and holding A down just ensures it will connect when it should.

Also experienced opponents know to just mash jump out of the Jab combos. However you can beat that with a nice RAR Bair

 

[Jdawg26]

I always hold, never ever tap. I don't know what's going on; it's happened at my usual spacing (where the whole hammerhead connects on jab1, so they'll be close enough after jab2 to grab). I feel like nothing means anything anymore. I mean I've been doing this just fine since October, and suddenly it's failing every time (until Captain is at high enough % to not touch the ground after jab1, but at that point getting the grab is dicey).

Although I could've sworn that training mode never registered jab-jab as a combo. I'll have to try it again when I get the chance; my memory isn't the most reliable about things like that.

It depends on the damage % and fall speed of your opponent. Jab1 doesn't chain into 2 at low percents on fast fallers, which is why falcon can break out sometimes. It varies from character to character.

 

[Blobface]

So I tried out Dedede for the first time the other day, just fighting randoms on FG (was lucky enough to find decent players several times in a row), and I noticed I wasn't getting much whenever I took the advantage state. Dedede doesn't land hits easily, so getting the most out of them is crucial. What are generally good ways to keep people in Disadvantage?

 

[manueluno]

Have an uptilted gordo just bouncing around to cover your approach.

 

[Jdawg26]

So I tried out Dedede for the first time the other day, just fighting randoms on FG (was lucky enough to find decent players several times in a row), and I noticed I wasn't getting much whenever I took the advantage state. Dedede doesn't land hits easily, so getting the most out of them is crucial. What are generally good ways to keep people in Disadvantage?

For most characters in the game there's no guaranteed way to keep an opponent in a disadvantaged state without making some pretty hard reads. General tips for doing this with D3:

-Keep your throw follow ups on point. Nair, fair and uair are all options out of dthrow.
-Try to read your opponent's DI as they reset after a throw combo
- Use ftilt to outspace landing options (matchup dependent)
- Don't underestimate the power of just shielding. You don't necessarily have to force an advantage as D3. You don't have the best tools to do so, and you'll live long enough to see another opening.
- Landing with b-reversed inhales works wonders when landing with bair stops working.

Hope this helped.

 

[dean.]

Who are generally considered among the best Dedede players in the USA?

 

[Soul Train]

Good question. The problem is, most D3 players don't use him in the latter parts of the bracket - they'll switch to their high-tier alts. But Big D is the only more nationally-known player I can think of offhand. Of course our own @ Jdawg26 is excellent.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Is JCU a viable technique for His Majesty?

 

[atomicblast360]

- Is there any use for Down B, or any of the down b customs?
- How much should you use Gordo's when not edge guarding or returning to the stage?
- is taste test considered better than normal inhale?

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Let me get my opinion on the Jet Hammer out before somebody else ruins it. I can tell that the Jet Hammer is NOT useless. Once charged, you're walking around with same power as a fully-stalled smash attack. That's intimidating AF. The problem is then the fact that it can be seen a mile away, so you'll have to use it in a couple of different situations to keep things plausible. When an opponent is returning to the stage is a great time charge it. If you can get a solid read, the Jet Hammer can connect whether they roll, attack, jump, or climb back onto the stage. Jumping with the Jet Hammer is a beautiful thing. As the opponent is falling back down to the stage from a hit, try jumping to hit them. The jump is suprisingly quick, and because the hit box is somewhat large, the timing isn't too difficult. My favorite use is to screw with counter-type characters e.g. Marth, girl Marth, Ike, Lucario, ect.. Simply charge the Hammer, walk up, wait for them to counter, wait a little less than a second for the counter frames to end, and murder them for trying to counter His Majesty. It's super-effective on For Glory.

 

[JSConrad45]

- Is there any use for Down B, or any of the down b customs?

Jet hammer has its place. As mentioned above, it's great against people who like to throw counters around like candy, and it's good for the occasional edge guard (especially since, fully charged, it hits below the ledge: http://gfycat.com/YellowRemoteKittiwake ).

But where it really shines is in the fact that you can start charging it in the air and release it upon touching the ground without losing any frames to the air-ground transition. This means that any attack that you can evade via a short hop and then land next to the opponent before they're able to shield, you can punish with the jet hammer by pulling it out during that short hop and then releasing once you're in range. This works on tether grabs and dash grabs, most dash attacks, and many fsmashes. You don't even have to worry much about your facing, since you can swing the hammer in the opposite direction without the turnaround animation by flicking the stick and releasing immediately afterward.

 

[manueluno]

I only use the jet hammer in certain situatuons.

• If I was just KOed and have superarmor.
• For some reason the opponent is trying to grab the ledge a second time.
• The opponent is bad an he should feel bad.

Needless to say, it does not work on good opponents.

 

[Soul Train]

- Is there any use for Down B, or any of the down b customs?
- How much should you use Gordo's when not edge guarding or returning to the stage?
- is taste test considered better than normal inhale?

• Down B: yes, it does have use. Situational, read-dependent, crazy ballsy, use. The point is to scare your opponent with the charging noise, get a read, and punish. But a good player will just laugh at you, never get hit by the full charge, and punish you hard for the whiff. However if you use the hammer at ~50% charge, the move staight up kills at 90% (!!), and if used in the air, you'll be able to block soon after landing. So, point: use as an occasional/rare Fair replacement, and try to cover the endlag with a UGordo. Personally I like the dash hammer custom; the armored custom is just too unsafe+weak, and the dash makes it harder to punish. This is the worst of all D3's moves, though - even Dair has a very specific niche use. You simply have safer options, but hey who can debate dat feel when you land it.

• Gordo: matchup and spacing dependent. You really have to be careful with it; Gordo is a very intentional move and must be intelligently used. Though when in neutral, lobbing a DGordo at their head is usually safe and creates pressure. There's a lot more to say, but just watch this for a bunch of examples and breakdowns.

• Neutral B: in short, Inhale lets you reposition opponents for an instant advantage, has followup potential, but has longer endlag. Taste Test instantly shoots opponents right back out the way they came, but has less endlag and does slightly more straight up damage. Against Little Mac/Doc/anyone that either has a more gimpable recovery, I prefer Inhale for more edgeguarding fun. Against anyone that has a particularly fast+hard punish game (Sanic/Shiek/etc), I go with Taste Test for the safer, consistent damage. B-reverses are particularly effective with Taste Test if you can get them down.

 

[Cook]

So I tried out Dedede for the first time the other day, just fighting randoms on FG (was lucky enough to find decent players several times in a row), and I noticed I wasn't getting much whenever I took the advantage state. Dedede doesn't land hits easily, so getting the most out of them is crucial. What are generally good ways to keep people in Disadvantage?

Imo, it's not a terrible idea to throw out fsmash from time to time when they're at a high enough percent for it to kill. Especially when the other guy is landing. Has huge range. The reward is super huge and most characters can't punish you that badly since Dedede is so fat.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Okay, so I've managed to ledge trump some players on For Glory, but that's about the extent of it. I can't seem to pop off the edge quick enough to do anything significant. I'm really thristy to land a ledge trump bair, so does anyone have any tips to pop off the edge quicker?

 

[shrooby]

Okay, so I've managed to ledge trump some players on For Glory, but that's about the extent of it. I can't seem to pop off the edge quick enough to do anything significant. I'm really to land a ledge trump bair, so does anyone have any tips to pop off the edge quicker?

Hold down and then immediately jump and bair towards them once you're not in the holding-the-ledge position anymore.
You do have to be pretty quick about it. Online isn't really the best practice for quick button presses like that. Try doing it offline against some level 1s or somethin' just to get a feel for it.

 

[Kaladin]

Hello, Fat Penguins :D

I want to pick up DDD as a trolly pocket character. I don't intend to be any good with him, I just decided he's who I want to screw around with on FG, due to DDDcide and jet hammer. So, what are the bare essential DDD techniques I should know? Thanks! (I'll watch the video linked in the OP at some point tonight.)

 

[Mew2Kid]

Are there any uses for Dedede's n-air?

 

[Soul Train]

Hello, Fat Penguins :D

I want to pick up DDD as a trolly pocket character. I don't intend to be any good with him, I just decided he's who I want to screw around with on FG, due to DDDcide and jet hammer. So, what are the bare essential DDD techniques I should know? Thanks! (I'll watch the video linked in the OP at some point tonight.)

Just watch the first video in the series and I think you'll be happy. 90% of the time, Jet Hammer a bad option and Dedeicide will rarely work against good players, so if those are, uh...your goals, it's good your expectations are low.

@ Mew2Kid , tons. With its low endlag and lingering hitbox, Nair is a great combo starter, interruptor, Gordo reflector, etc etc. Watching the video guide referenced in the OP would show you a bunch more practical examples - particularly this video.

 

[Mew2Kid]

@ Mew2Kid , tons. With its low endlag and lingering hitbox, Nair is a great combo starter, interruptor, Gordo reflector, etc etc. Watching the video guide referenced in the OP would show you a bunch more practical examples - particularly this video.

Hmm, well I suppose I should start using n-air more often. Thanks for the tips!

 

[shrooby]

Hello, Fat Penguins :D

I want to pick up DDD as a trolly pocket character. I don't intend to be any good with him, I just decided he's who I want to screw around with on FG, due to DDDcide and jet hammer. So, what are the bare essential DDD techniques I should know? Thanks! (I'll watch the video linked in the OP at some point tonight.)

Honestly, the videos are the best thing to get you started.
I only watched through them once, though, so don't remember what isn't covered outside of match-ups and stage-specific tactics.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Dededecide is effective as a mix up option if you see the opportunity. Actively trying to get KOs with it is generally a bad idea though. It's a bit of a gimick really. The same applies to the Jet Hammer. It's great, but it's not something that you can force when facing someone who knows what they're doing. Both Dededecide and the Jet Hammer need the element of surprise to be of any value.

 

[Jdawg26]

Okay, so I've managed to ledge trump some players on For Glory, but that's about the extent of it. I can't seem to pop off the edge quick enough to do anything significant. I'm really thristy to land a ledge trump bair, so does anyone have any tips to pop off the edge quicker?

Usually after the trump I drop off immediately, then double jump back air. It's not guaranteed on all characters though.

Are there any uses for Dedede's n-air?

It's an extremely useful move. Recently I've had a lot of success catching people out of airdodges with it. Sour spot nair is also an amazing option if you bait someone into dropping their shield as you can get a pivot grab at low percents, and utilt at medium percents. The sweetspot isn't a half bad killing move if you're having trouble netting a safe kill option. Experiment with it and you'll get plenty of mileage off of it.

 

[Kaladin]

Dededecide is effective as a mix up option if you see the opportunity. Actively trying to get KOs with it is generally a bad idea though. It's a bit of a gimick really. The same applies to the Jet Hammer. It's great, but it's not something that you can force when facing someone who knows what they're doing. Both Dededecide and the Jet Hammer need the element of surprise to be of any value.

Note, I only intend to use DDD on for glory :D

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Regardless, they're both tactics that can be read a mile away and then some. Just keep that in mind. When you pull them out, your opponent should feel cornered. Otherwise you're just a sitting duck (penguin?).

 

[T4ylor]

What are the best ways to set up shield breaks? I've gotten a few recently and walking them to the edge and killing at around 30% with Jet Hammer just feels too good.

Also, does anyone know exactly how many seconds of charging it takes to reach the maximum knockback from his Jet Hammer?

 

[Soul Train]

What are the best ways to set up shield breaks? I've gotten a few recently and walking them to the edge and killing at around 30% with Jet Hammer just feels too good.

Also, does anyone know exactly how many seconds of charging it takes to reach the maximum knockback from his Jet Hammer?

With their fast regeneration rate, shieldbreaks are very difficult to pull off in Smash 4. However, with Dedede there are several ways you can do this, with the first being the best:

1. UpB. If you can land this onto a shielding opponent, it'll hit three times (once on descending, once on landing, then the stars after), leaving their shield ~90% gone. If you got them to block a Gordo beforehand, the shield will break. Don't go for it regularly, as it's definitely punishable on whiff. Try to use more as a getup option from offstage - mixing up ledgegrabs with the (rare) UpB onstage landing.
2. Fsmash. Fully charged + Gordo = shieldbreak. Use as one of many edgeguarding options - throw a UGordo, charge Fsmash.
3. DownB/Jet Hammer + Gordo = shieldbreak. See above.

Jet Hammer fully charges after 2.3 seconds. However I would greatly recommend NOT using the full charge - it greatly increases your endlag. Instead, try using it after about 1 second charge as an occasional replacement to Fair - it will actually kill straight up around 90%, and leave you far less open.

 

[T4ylor]

snip

Thanks for the good reply, and as for the Jet Hammer, I was more curious as to how long to charge until the full knockback. Charging it fully gets much less. At full charge you either get 38/28% damage off of it, but or some whatever frames just before that you get the full knockback of the attack (28% damage). If you can kill a level 9 Sonic at the edge of Smashville at 20% (in Training mode) you're doing it right.

 

[axelalexzander]

Is there ever a situation where you should be using Upthrow? I never ever use it and am wondering if there's any situation where I should be.

 

[Jatayu]

Is there ever a situation where you should be using Upthrow? I never ever use it and am wondering if there's any situation where I should be.

Absolutely no reason to use it. Up-throw to up-air isn't even a true combo.

 

[dean.]

I use it a bit once dthrow stops comboing. "Directly above you" generally isn't a position most opponents want to be.

 

[Mshary]

I have a quistion about King dedede up B a lot of times when i use the up B he doesn't hold the edge I know that If I'm really close to the edge he can't hold it but when I'm far he sometimes doesn't hold the edge is there a way to control this?

 

[Soul Train]

I have a quistion about King dedede up B a lot of times when i use the up B he doesn't hold the edge I know that If I'm really close to the edge he can't hold it but when I'm far he sometimes doesn't hold the edge is there a way to control this?

Need...punctuation...but yes. You can only grab the ledge before Dedede starts his descent - and if you're NOT holding down. Watch the UpB part of this video, it walks through the concept: https://youtu.be/H6gAx0ALre0