Q&A How Do I Penguin? King Dedede Q&A Thread

[kaak]

From wich untill wich frame is super armor active on hes upB?

 

[Soul Train]

Hi there. Two quick questions.

First, I'm wondering about down tilted gordo tosses. Are there any kind of useful things you can do with them that you can't accomplish with the other two varieties? I can see immediate applications for up tilting gordos, creating edgeguard traps and walls and all kinds of nasty things, but the purpose of a down tilted toss eludes me. I can't see it serving a purpose that the normal toss wouldn't serve on its own. Best I can come up with is that since it bounces higher and moves slower, it might throw people who are trying to reflect the faster, more direct gordos, so it could be a mix up for the straight up regular toss. Is there anything they're really useful for?

Second, I'm curious about Dream Land vs. Battlefield for Dedede. In a situation where we have to choose between one or the other, is one more advantageous for us than the other? Or do they both suck equally and we just have to pick our poison?.

With Gordos: Down Tilted Gordos (DGordo) are actually incredible. The power of Gordos is not when they're flying straigt at your opponent but when they're hanging between you two. DGordos nicely bounce and hang for awhile at the end,making them perfect for this. They're also far harder to reflect than FGordo. FGordos almost always fly straight back at you; at about half stage away, reflected DGordos will sail over your head.

But for actual setups and breakdown, watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfVScvNyWM. I made it exactly for questions like yours

With stages: Dreamland's top blastzone is a little shorter than Battlefield. So don't pick the former against Sonic, ZSS, etc. Otherwise the platforms a little different (Dreamland's are a tad longer), and the wispy woods wind can push you here and there. I honestly hate both. D3 gets combo'd for days here by much of the cast; Smashville is just nicer for 90% of matchups.

From wich untill wich frame is super armor active on hes upB?

Super Dedede Jump armor frames: begin on frame 5, end on 14, begin again on 52, end on frame 60. Basically while he's jumping and falling, there's armor. While he's slowing/pausing up top, you can be hit out of it.

 

[Man of shame]

So from what I heard forward throw is a good way to seal the kill can someone elaborate for me, because I don't really use his forward throw often, It's honestly my least used throw for king Dedede.

 

[MLG_Caillou]

Does anyone else have trouble hitting Jab cancel>Dthrow>Fair>Nair combo. And then regrabbing like wtf where the cheat codes?
I've hit it once and it was on a bot. I've only been able to hit the jab cancel Dthrow to up air which is still super effective.
(in short what are ideal percents to hit the super duper combo of glory, do you have trouble hitting it?)

 

[TMJ_Jack]

So from what I heard forward throw is a good way to seal the kill can someone elaborate for me, because I don't really use his forward throw often, It's honestly my least used throw for king Dedede.

Forward throw is a respectable option for some KOs. It'll take too much damage to kill with the actual throw reliably, but the trajectory of the opponent is fairly horizontal. Depending of his or her recovery, the path they choose back to the stage may not only be predictable but also favorable to Dedede's off-stage options.

For example, today I forward threw a Mega Man at high percents near the edge of the stage. The throw didn't come close to KOing him, but it forced him into a very predictable recovery path. I followed and knocked him away with fast-fall fair. After the fair, he was too far from the edge to recovery even with his up special.

I hope that helps.

 

[Man of shame]

does anyone know if are gordos can be reflected by needles and side B,I'm pretty sure gordos beat out needle I'm not to sure.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

does anyone know if are gordos can be reflected by needles and side B,I'm pretty sure gordos beat out needle I'm not to sure.

Gordo always beats Sheik's needles.
As for the Bouncing Fish, it depends. In order for a Gordo to be reflected, it has to encounter a hitbox. Because only Sheik's foot has a hitbix, Gordo can hit her during Bouncing Fish but only if the hitbox doesn't connect with Gordo.

 

[Man of shame]

Gordo always beats Sheik's needles.
As for the Bouncing Fish, it depends. In order for a Gordo to be reflected, it has to encounter a hitbox. Because only Sheik's foot has a hitbix, Gordo can hit her during Bouncing Fish but only if the hitbox doesn't connect with Gordo.

Shiek side B is her gernade not bouncing fish which is her down B but thanks for the added information on bouncing fish, It always good to know what we can and can't do against her.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Shiek side B is her gernade not bouncing fish which is her down B but thanks for the added information on bouncing fish, It always good to know what we can and can't do against her.

Whoops. In that case, Gordo doesn't beat the grenade at all with the exception of passing through the windbox.

 

[KingJames]

I need some advice on the falcon mu,doing a 50 dollar mm vs a good falcon.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I need some advice on the falcon mu,doing a 50 dollar mm vs a good falcon.

Do not approach. Always make Falcon approach you, and punish him accordingly. Try to stay away from the ledge, as Falcon has a million and one ways of spiking, stagespiking, and other assorted methods of making you want to kill yourself.

Other than that, use your skills, your gordos, and just about everything else. Good luck.

Oh, and ban Battlefield and FD if you can. Personally, I love Lylat against Falcon.

 

[KingJames]

Anyone else think meta knight is a terrible match up for d3, I lost to a meta knight player who out camped me.

 

[Axel311]

Anyone else think meta knight is a terrible match up for d3, I lost to a meta knight player who out camped me.

I don't think it's that bad. Probably still slightly in MK's favor. But MK is light, has low damage and short range which D3 should be able to capitalize on with his big disjointed hitboxes.

 

[atomicblast360]

Advice against Olimar? This is probably not a bad MU for D3 (Unsure) But I have a ton of trouble with it on FD, and smashville or any flat stages. For some reason I find it harder to approach him than most other characters

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Advice against Olimar? This is probably not a bad MU for D3 (Unsure) But I have a ton of trouble with it on FD, and smashville or any flat stages. For some reason I find it harder to approach him than most other characters

Olimar is a pain for sure. I have a few pointers but none of this is concrete so you may or may not have success with this. Plz no h8.

• You'll need to space super well. FTilts and SH aerials.
• The above goes ESPECIALLY when he has a Blue or Purple Pikmin out.
• Try not to go on flat or BF-like stages. Lylat Cruise is one I've had success with.
• Don't be afraid to go after him offstage.
• Never ever underestimate his range.

Hope this helps even if a tiny bit.

 

[Soul Train]

Advice against Olimar? This is probably not a bad MU for D3 (Unsure) But I have a ton of trouble with it on FD, and smashville or any flat stages. For some reason I find it harder to approach him than most other characters

Jimmy said good stuff. One thing I'd add: Gordo is actually great in this matchup. It EATS everything that is not a Purple Pikmin, so if you just keep track of the pikmin lineup, you can actually force him to approach.

Otherwise you can slightly outrange him, survive longer, and edgeguard wayyy better. There's no hitbox on his UpB, but be ready for him to mix up his recovery high/low. Olimar dies early, he can't afford to make mistakes. Slightly in D3's favor in my experience.

 

[supersage400]

So, about perfect pivots. Is this a useful tech for Dedede? What kinds of things can he do with them? I can only get one successful pivot out of roughly every ten attempts and I'm trying to figure out if the payoff of mastering the technique is worth the difficulty of learning to perform it. Thanks.

 

[Soul Train]

So, about perfect pivots. Is this a useful tech for Dedede? What kinds of things can he do with them? I can only get one successful pivot out of roughly every ten attempts and I'm trying to figure out if the payoff of mastering the technique is worth the difficulty of learning to perform it. Thanks.

Not especially - D3's perfect pivot distance isn't that far at all, and his turnaround dash lag is significant...you'll eat a hard punish if you mess up. I actually have a pocket Little Mac, who hugely benefits from perfect pivots. But I main D3, and it really doesn't matter here.

Instead, practice perfect shielding, spacing, and reads. Go to training, have a friend/your toe shoot projectiles at you, and go until you perfect shield at all movement 30/30 times. Play matches against good opponents with varying characters, Pikachu to Shulk (use Anther's Ladder if you don't have a local scene). And start watching yourself play to notice patterns - what does the opponent do under pressure? Challenge you back, or roll twice? What do you do repeatedly? Etc.

D3 really thrives off a strong defense, as his punish game is nasty, and with a few reads you get the stock.

 

[Jdawg26]

I use perfect pivots occasionally, normally perfect pivot jab for checking approaches while moving backwards in neutral, or PP ftilt oos to get slightly longer punishes on large hitboxes that a dash grab wouldn't cut; i.e.Shulk's fair.

It's not horribly useful and it won't be the hidden key to fixing any issues you may be having, but it's not something to write off entirely. They're worth practicing if only to help perfect your movement options. At the end of the day, the answer of whether or not you should be using them is less clear cut than a simple yes or no. It takes a lot of spacing knowledge to know how to use them properly with Dedede.

 

[supersage400]

Alright, thanks gents. Help much appreciated.

 

[Z1GMA]

When does D3 have SA on his up+b?

 

[Jatayu]

Frame 5-13 and 52-59

 

[Z1GMA]

Frame 5-13 and 52-59

Ye I just watched that Armor Vid. But thx anyway.

 

[Man of shame]

does anyone else use jab to fight against projectiles(I found it very useful against fireball)

 

[Soul Train]

does anyone else use jab to fight against projectiles(I found it very useful against fireball)

You can get manage/get lucky with it sometimes. But the move has way too much startup/endlag. Use your shield.

And specifically with Luigi fireballs, there's actually less stun if you let yourself get hit. Wonky, but true.

 

[Man of shame]

You can get manage/get lucky with it sometimes. But the move has way too much startup/endlag. Use your shield.

And specifically with Luigi fireballs, there's actually less stun if you let yourself get hit. Wonky, but true.

Weird, the timing not that bad you just have to do it earlier then you would think you have to(but shielding is always the best option most of the time) , I was fighting a Luigi a while back and the fireball endlag is just as bad as jab 1 endlag only giving him time to get close to us but not enough to attack allowing you enough time to f-tilt, also d-tilt apparently clashes with projectiles(the timing super weird do)BTW only talking about the first hit of the jab combo if it wasn't clear enough.

 

[Funkermonster]

Is it wrong that I give D3 respect upon landing and don't challenge him much in the air? Mostly because of his multiple jumps, Nair, and Bair and I dunno what to do against those except when I'm playing Mega Man (in which case I just shoot tornadoes)

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Is it wrong that I give D3 respect upon landing and don't challenge him much in the air? Mostly because of his multiple jumps, Nair, and Bair and I dunno what to do against those except when I'm playing Mega Man (in which case I just shoot tornadoes)

Greninja has good range, so if you space well, emphasize well, then you'll be fine. I have also noticed that it's incredibly easy to juggle Dedesy with UpAir, almost to Rosaluma proportions, since D3 can't really do much when he's above you. Just watch out for his nair, I recommend shieldgrabbing it.

But yeah, if you don't feel confident in your aerial spacing game, then chances are you're better off sticking to the neutral.

 

[Dumpabump]

Does anyone have frame and damage data for D3?

Edit: or a link to a thread with that?

 

[Soul Train]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/34cs6c/a_gift_for_you_smashbros_frame_data_for_smash_4/

Google is your friend.

 

[Dumpabump]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/34cs6c/a_gift_for_you_smashbros_frame_data_for_smash_4/

Google is your friend.

Thank you very much!

 

[atomicblast360]

On lighter/average weight characters, when I use down throw to FF Uair, should I keep going for regrabs and repeat the FF Uair, or should I just do it once or twice and go for a fair, ext.? Hopefully I explained that well, kind of a confusing question lol

Also how do I deal with Yoshi's grab releases with D3?

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

On lighter/average weight characters, when I use down throw to FF Uair, should I keep going for regrabs and repeat the FF Uair, or should I just do it once or twice and go for a fair, ext.? Hopefully I explained that well, kind of a confusing question lol

Also how do I deal with Yoshi's grab releases with D3?

Well it really does make a difference between light and middle weighted characters.

For lighter characters, it's usually better to assume that they will jump up or airdodge before they hit the ground, so a SH Nair usually covers all their options at that point. For middleweights, it really depends on their percent. If they're 50% or below, I'd try for it again, possibly twice more before doing something else if they're REALLY low. If they're higher, well I probably wouldn't even try FF Uair in the first place.

 

[AAAZZZ]

Hi there. Two quick questions.
First, I'm wondering about down tilted gordo tosses. Are there any kind of useful things you can do with them that you can't accomplish with the other two varieties? I can see immediate applications for up tilting gordos, creating edgeguard traps and walls and all kinds of nasty things, but the purpose of a down tilted toss eludes me.

When I first started playing Dedede I thought the same thing.
You do not see the world of gordos as it truly is. You are merely an outsider who cannot comprehend the ways of the gordo. Time, patience, practice, and discipline are required to truly learn what you are capable of.

Having a gordo bounce higher, and naturally the properties of gordos chance wildly depending on how high you are above the stage when you use them, is incredibly useful. Throw a ngordo out then a dgordo at someone who is trying to read you. One of them will probably hit. Hell both of them will probably hit if you start with a well aimed dgordo. Dgordos also just don't go as far horizontally so when you are starting a match you can throw one out pretty safely no matter who your opponent is and see how they react. Dgordos can snipe people recovering low if you know how to aim.
There are really too many things to say about the interaction between all the gordos for me to put here, so just read my opening statement a few more times.

 

[Icarus Nocturne]

I know the possibility of us getting buffed is almost no existent but I do want to ask, what sort of buff would it take to make us a decent threat around the community?

Less end lag on our Inhale?
Perhaps faster aerials?
A better Jet hammer?

I honestly could've cared less about our final smash buff/fix.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I know the possibility of us getting buffed is almost no existent but I do want to ask, what sort of buff would it take to make us a decent threat around the community?

Less end lag on our Inhale?
Perhaps faster aerials?
A better Jet hammer?

I honestly could've cared less about our final smash buff/fix.

A longer grab would be great. Slightly better air mobility would be nice, too. Vectoring with D3 is almost impossible when you're so slow you can't change your momentum fast enough.

Also, the FinalSmash buff was actually seriously needed. it was impossible to hit.

 

[atomicblast360]

What scenarios should I be using angled down gordo's over the normal and angled up?
Also is B Reversing Gordo's a good option?

 

[Lord Horatio]

What are Dedede's safe offensive options?

 

[imsoul]

What scenarios should I be using angled down gordo's over the normal and angled up?
Also is B Reversing Gordo's a good option?

Personally I never use gordos down, as I can do anything with neutral and up. Also you cant b reverse gordos, only neutral specials because you can't imput a direction. If you mean just side-b'ing the opposite way, it is no different.

What are Dedede's safe offensive options?

FF nair -> dtilt (low%), up-gordo to cover options -> grab -> dthrow -> 50/50

 

[atomicblast360]

Personally I never use gordos down, as I can do anything with neutral and up. Also you cant b reverse gordos, only neutral specials because you can't imput a direction. If you mean just side-b'ing the opposite way, it is no different.

Yep that's what I meant with the gordo's, I heard someone talking about B reversing gordo's on another thread and had no clue what he was talking about. Then I saw a thread about B reversing saying you could B reverse side b's but it must have been wrong.