Q&A How Do I Penguin? King Dedede Q&A Thread

[TMJ_Jack]

What is playing on Anther's like? I looked around after signing up and noticed Girthquake, Soul Train, and MSOokami were all on as members. I was thinking about getting into it since it seems like a better version of For Glory, but it's all a bit intimidating. Any advice?

 

[supersage400]

It's worth joining. There are a lot of skilled players there and you get more experience in a variety of matchups than you would on FG, where you might not get the most talented opposition. The interface makes it really easy to find and play matches. It's a really well put together site and I'd recommend it to anyone who was interested in improving their gameplay or just having a good time in general.

 

[Soul Train]

What is playing on Anther's like? I looked around after signing up and noticed Girthquake, Soul Train, and MSOokami were all on as members. I was thinking about getting into it since it seems like a better version of For Glory, but it's all a bit intimidating. Any advice?

The #1 reason it's better than FG: connection. There you can easily find people closer to you; FG is a crapshoot. Those random but crucial moments of lag make me crazy salty, so Anther's is a very nice solution.

If you do nothing else, just create an account and play some Endless Friendlies. You can be chill yet get some legit feedback, it's great. Good luck friend!

 

[Aki]

For me it's not really the connection, just the possibility to talk to the peope and play more stages. The connections are always hit or miss, no matter where you play.

 

[Karnu]

I can't do anthers. Australia lags when playing the world

 

[Dexmaster]

So in Zero's latest video he talks about how ledge trapping and cornering are super important when playing dedede. What do these terms mean?

 

[Silly Symphony]

So in Zero's latest video he talks about how ledge trapping and cornering are super important when playing dedede. What do these terms mean?

Because of Dedede's less than ideal frame, hitbox and knockback data, getting the opponent out of neutral, meaning in a position where they don't have stage control, is super-important. In this position (hanging at the ledge, the side or below the stage) their movement is restricted. Add to that a nice dose of disjointed hitboxes and some flavouring of Gordo and your opponent's chance to get back on stage in neutral unscathed are extremely small.

This is also a position where Dedede's killing potential are highest, since Dedede is much less time-pressed to get back to the stage, unlike most characters that will do all they can to get back to the stage ASAP. This basically means that you can camp out in the air on your opponent's recovery trajectory, bop them around a bit, make a funny face and UpB back to the stage while your opponent has exhausted their jump counter.

 

[HoSmash4]

What are DDD's ledge coverage options?

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Better question: what AREN'T Dedede's ledge coverage options.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Gordo, Gordo, and more Gordo.

Dedede doesn't really have a go-to answer for covering ledge options. A well-spaced ftilt can cover neutral get-up and attack, down smash is great for covering rolls, you can demolish ledge jumps with fsmash, it's mostly about placing yourself in the right space at the right time with the right attack.

Gordo is helpful when doing this because it makes your opponent afraid. It covers neutral get-up and some other options, depending on where you place it, and you can be prepared to reflect it if they choose to do a get-up attack. If they get-up and shield instinctively, the Gordo has enough hitlag on shield that you can do something to pressure their shield, such as a smash, grab, or inhale. Many people like to roll past Gordo, which can be met with a down smash. And if they hang on the ledge too long, you can run off and do nasty things to them...sometimes the Gordo will even stage spike them for you!

The other thing Gordo is good at is eliminating ledge as an option all together. It's tricky when using defaults, but sticking a Gordo to the side of the stage can cover low recoveries, and when it's right smack dab on the ledge it covers basically all recoveries. It's not that bad of an idea to go for every now and then, as a Gordo stuck to the wall will pop them up into the perfect spot for an fsmash to come crashing down on them. Additionally, you can always try to intercept certain recoveries with Gordo that don't have a hitbox. Sometimes it will rebound off of the opponent and stick on the wall, putting them in a seriously bad spot.

If the Gordo fails to stick to the wall, it will rebound off of it instead. Again, this is good to try against recoveries like Falcon's or Duck Hunt's, because the rebounded Gordo can nail them on its way down. It's all about knowing you character and your opponent's when it comes to using the Gordo.

If you meant to ask about how to get up from the ledge as Dedede, well...his options are unfortunately pretty easy to cover because of his general slowness.

 

[williamsga555]

Oh hey, I was just about to ask about Gordo sticking! Had no idea you guys were talking about it here already.

I want to know if we've found and/or agreed to a fully reliable gordo sticking method yet. I know there are a lot of different ways to get it to stick, but have we found a way to do it 100% consistently? I ask because I believe I've found an easy, really reliable setup, but it's much slower than the other ones I've seen before.

1. Run to the edge of the stage and short hop
2. Immediately input a midair jump as soon as possible, still moving away from the stage. It has to be fast.
3. Input another midair jump, still moving away from the stage, still as soon as possible.
4. Turnaround Up-Tilt Gordo without drifting left or right.

So far in labbing I've got it down nearly 100%, but the use of three total jumps makes it a much slower method than the other variants posted around here, so it might be less practical than the numerous single hop methods that have been floating around for ages.

My question then is two part: Have we come to a consensus on what is generally the most reliable Gordo sticking method yet? Is my found setup practical (is it even new?)?

 

[Soul Train]

My question then is two part: Have we come to a consensus on what is generally the most reliable Gordo sticking method yet? Is my found setup practical (is it even new?)?

Unfortunately not new: https://youtu.be/7DIU5mCt4j0

But yes, it is quite practical. There's actually several great methods of getting the "stick", but they all have the same problem: you need enough time to jump off, throw the Gordo, UpB back to stage, AND use an attack. The stick is valid option, it just applies to very rare situations and is difficult to do consistently.

Hopefully later TODAY, Sakurai will announce patch changes, and D3 will get a good amount of frames shaved off Gordo (10 from endlag please). That alone would help this significantly.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I was labbing Dedede stuff last night (a rarity for me, because I seriously HATE labbing). For me, I found a full jump from standing on the ledge into a reverse quarter-circle up Gordo could get it stuck fairly reliably. The exact spacing and timing seems to be somewhat stage dependent (it's easier on FD versus BF for example) but you can get it stuck in one jump.

Basically from the left side of the stage: is the motion I was using. Again, not anything new but I found it works well.

Unfortunately, looking at the patch notes we have at the moment Dedede got nothing of value once again. Unless they seriously buffed the FAF on Gordo Toss, it seems we've been left out in the cold again.

 

[Aki]

I have a method on Smashville that is pretty situational but works well.
1. Stand in the middle of the platform when it is all the way to the left or right
2. Drop and toss a normal Gordo
That's all. It's guaranteed to stick if you do it at this distance it seems.

 

[Soul Train]

SIGH. Did some testing, doesn't look like D3 received any changes, as per the Nintendo norm. Fair still sucks, Gordo Throw has >60 frames of vulnerability, and Jab is still needs reworking. There might be a few frames reduction on Inhale, but I'm assuming that's placebo.

ALRIGHTY THEN. Time to get up and over it, and probably actually get around to my vid concepts like some advanced Gordo stuff or "Changes Dedede Needs to Become Competitive."

There's still a chance though...when Corrin is released, they'll probably patch the game then too.

 

[Silly Symphony]

I have a specific frame-data question related to Jet Hammer that I couldn't find in the frame-data sheet. The sheet only specifies the frames from starting the charge-up to release, but how many frames does it take for a charged Jet Hammer to generate a hitbox? Like, from letting go of B to hitbox?

 

[Aki]

I'm curious what the changes actually were. At first I thought that DDD can grab the ledge even when facing away from it or while coming down from above with Super Dedede Jump but I guess that was wishful thinking.
Inhale also felt somewhat off when I played earlier today but it might have just been input delay because of online. I actually SD'd with it when I thought I could have easily made it back.

 

[dean.]

I have a specific frame-data question related to Jet Hammer that I couldn't find in the frame-data sheet. The sheet only specifies the frames from starting the charge-up to release, but how many frames does it take for a charged Jet Hammer to generate a hitbox? Like, from letting go of B to hitbox?

Partially charged = 10 frames
Full charge = 9 frames

 

[Silly Symphony]

Partially charged = 10 frames
Full charge = 9 frames

Thank you. That's a bit more than what the amount I was hoping for :/

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

I'm curious what the changes actually were. At first I thought that DDD can grab the ledge even when facing away from it or while coming down from above with Super Dedede Jump but I guess that was wishful thinking.
Inhale also felt somewhat off when I played earlier today but it might have just been input delay because of online. I actually SD'd with it when I thought I could have easily made it back.

Technically Dedede CAN already do this. It's just you need to be right at the apex of the up-b for it to ledgesnap which requires you to go VERY low under the stage to do so. it requires a bit of labbing to be able to do consistently but it will save your life more often then not. One more thing to note would be that as long as the meteor/falling hitbox isn't active yet Dedede will grab the ledge as long as you are close enough. REMEMBER THIS BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE IF YOU UP-B TOO EARLY. So you want to aim for the point where he hovers in midair for a bit and then it should work. I see too many Dededes SD because they don't know how to properly ledge grab with reverse up-b, hopefully now that this is out people will lab it and live even longer then we already do.

 

[OnFullTilt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opKDzOu0QBI

I made another montage

Not bad mate, certainly enjoyed it, and nice gordo usage as always. Just have a question related to the risk/reward of gordo toss. When do you find it worth going for Gordos? Do you (personally) tend to get punished if you use it when not already in an advantageous state? Do you find it not safe enough to use in neutral unless you get a minor read (i.e. you're pretty sure the opponent won't approach) or is it safe enough against certain characters even without one in neutral? I've gotten better at using gordos, but still have much to learn and was wondering at your thoughts.

 

[Girthquake]

Not bad mate, certainly enjoyed it, and nice gordo usage as always. Just have a question related to the risk/reward of gordo toss. When do you find it worth going for Gordos? Do you (personally) tend to get punished if you use it when not already in an advantageous state? Do you find it not safe enough to use in neutral unless you get a minor read (i.e. you're pretty sure the opponent won't approach) or is it safe enough against certain characters even without one in neutral? I've gotten better at using gordos, but still have much to learn and was wondering at your thoughts.

It's all about feeding people mixed up Gordo angles/spacing and pressuring them to react badly to it. Most of the time Gordo is not safe in neutral unless you're against someone like Ganondorf or anyone who has issues running down DDD but you can still condition your opponents to react to a Gordo thrown in neutral badly. If I were you I'd check out Soul Train 's guide for DDD specifically the Gordo section. It helped me a lot in becoming familiar with Gordos threat ranges and mix ups.

 

[OnFullTilt]

It's all about feeding people mixed up Gordo angles/spacing and pressuring them to react badly to it. Most of the time Gordo is not safe in neutral unless you're against someone like Ganondorf or anyone who has issues running down DDD but you can still condition your opponents to react to a Gordo thrown in neutral badly. If I were you I'd check out Soul Train 's guide for DDD specifically the Gordo section. It helped me a lot in becoming familiar with Gordos threat ranges and mix ups.

Have seen it actually, though I need to watch it again. Just curious as to your own views on it. Thanks a bunch mate! I use it a lot for edgeguards and ledgetraps but not much onstage (mostly just prone roll/getup reads) yet. It seems like using it against ZSS for instance is never worth it onstage since she could duck under it or laser it at any moment but mayhaps I'm wrong. I definitely need to work more on using onstage gordo stuff more just in general.

Oh, also, could I ask what the fastest current known way to stick gordos to the edge is? I think I may have found a faster but still consistent way.

 

[Aaragon123]

So I played a few olimars recently and I can't seem to reliably knock the pikmin off a me. So I ask, is there a reliable way of knocking the pikmin off and if so what is it?

 

[Soul Train]

So I played a few olimars recently and I can't seem to reliably knock the pikmin off a me. So I ask, is there a reliable way of knocking the pikmin off and if so what is it?

Personally I use Nair and Dtilt. Don't forget that shielding is perfectly viable too, they can't damage you then.

Protip: Gordo positively eats Pikmin. Abuse it smartly.

 

[Girthquake]

Personally I use Nair and Dtilt. Don't forget that shielding is perfectly viable too, they can't damage you then.

Protip: Gordo positively eats Pikmin. Abuse it smartly.

Utilt as well if they're on the top of your head nair won't cover it.

 

[frankyou]

Got a quick question about Dedede? Post here and have it answered!

If you're new to Dedede, I'd highly recommend watching the Dedede Video Guide put together by @ Soul Train . It's an excellent watch, and most of your questions will probably be answered.

If the same questions get asked frequently, then this post will also be made into an FAQ.

But, until then, ask away!

I was hoping to post a clip of my Dedede. I believe that this is the way he should be played. Dedede for top tier!
https://youtu.be/in8QWL6VHt8

 

[Soul Train]

I was hoping to post a clip of my Dedede. I believe that this is the way he should be played. Dedede for top tier! https://youtu.be/in8QWL6VHt8

Welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you, and hope you enjoy the great community we have here.

I will say that this is the Q&A thread. Keep it to Q&A; we have an entire thread dedicated to posts like yours right here.

With the video: you did make some nice moves (especially the UpB kill at the end), but it was pretty standard For Glory stuff, meaning that Mario was rather terrible at spacing and obviously inexperienced in the matchup. If you want to see "how D3 should be played" then watch some of Girthquake's stuff here, as an example. JDawg and Big D are also probably the two most well-known tourney D3 players, youtube them and learn from their fantastic fundamentals.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lately I've been rather curious about the Double-Jump Drag equipment's negative bonus effect; 0.7x mid-air jump height. I know that Dedede has 4 mid-air jumps that don't exactly go too high, but if he's equipped with the Double-Jump Drag equipment, would that prove to be a hindrance to his mid-air jumps?

I'm asking this here, because I don't have any Double-Jump Drag equipment to test out.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

I wanted to know how I'm supposed to do the down throw fast fall up air combo. I've been practicing it but sometimes the fast fall doesn't seem to work. Am I supposed to mash down or press it once? I've tried both but neither seem to work

 

[Soul Train]

I wanted to know how I'm supposed to do the down throw fast fall up air combo. I've been practicing it but sometimes the fast fall doesn't seem to work. Am I supposed to mash down or press it once? I've tried both but neither seem to work

You just have to wait a beat, before hitting the Uair, then fastfall. Honestly I mash the fastfall, until I hit the ground.

My breakdown right here goes into detail on this, right at the 1:53 mark. The notes there tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

Thanks I'll keep trying!

 

[CollyD13]

Yo, I was curious if Dedede's jet hammer actually has any practical uses in regard to gordo ledge traps. It's not something I've tested out against anyone, but in theory couldn't his down-b cover the same options a typical down-smash + gordo trap covers, in addition to giving Dedede some mobility?

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Yo, I was curious if Dedede's jet hammer actually has any practical uses in regard to gordo ledge traps. It's not something I've tested out against anyone, but in theory couldn't his down-b cover the same options a typical down-smash + gordo trap covers, in addition to giving Dedede some mobility?

In theory, probably. In practice, probably not.

The fact is is that the endlag on jet hammer would not just increase your chance of getting punished but guarantee it. Even if you intend to pull it out uncharged as your opponent gets onstage, your opponent will be able to see what you're doing and just stay there. At that point, you're just sitting there doing damage to yourself and your opponent completely controls what happens next.

Dsmash or pivot fsmash is just better. It covers more options, and it cuts down on your getting-punished chances.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

In theory, probably. In practice, probably not.

The fact is is that the endlag on jet hammer would not just increase your chance of getting punished but guarantee it. Even if you intend to pull it out uncharged as your opponent gets onstage, your opponent will be able to see what you're doing and just stay there. At that point, you're just sitting there doing damage to yourself and your opponent completely controls what happens next.

Dsmash or pivot fsmash is just better. It covers more options, and it cuts down on your getting-punished chances.

Well if the opponent for some reason decides to just sit on the ledge and let their invincibility run out then you could get them since down B does hit slightly below the ledge

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Well if the opponent for some reason decides to just sit on the ledge and let their invincibility run out then you could get them since down B does hit slightly below the ledge

If they were a smart opponent, it'd be a trap. They would escape the hit during startup and punish you during endlag.

I guess it would work if they weren't smart. Just don't pull it on a or a , because they are impossible to hit with jet hammer while on the ledge.

 

[Soul Train]

I guess it would work if they weren't smart. Just don't pull it on a or a , because they are impossible to hit with jet hammer while on the ledge.

If anyone feels kind enough to test who we can/can't hit with charged Jet HAmmer on ledge, they'll get a thankyou and a mention in the Research thread from me

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

If anyone feels kind enough to test who we can/can't hit with charged Jet HAmmer on ledge, they'll get a thankyou and a mention in the Research thread from me

I already labbed that on another thread awhile back. That's how I know which characters can't get hit. Make sure you give @A Rogue Cop props as well as myself, he did a lot of the testing too and came up with the idea. I just helped him out.

Uncharged has the same properties as every other charge except for fully charged. Fully charged is a different hitbox, so we had to make two columns. Make sure you know which you can hit with and which you cannot.

Also, for , I can't test him atm but I looked at the way he hangs from the ledge very closely, and I'd imagine it'd be very hard to hit him, if it's even possible to hit him on the ledge, since he hangs by just the tips of his fingers on one hand.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Can't seem to find the FAF for Dedede's throws anywhere...is that information available, or is there a simple way to lab it out? There were a few things I wanted to test out, mainly with dthrow.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

I have an interesting question for you all. Would you change the launch direction from a Gordo? The launch from a Gordo is pretty consistent: diagonally upward moving away from Gordo. Essentially, this means Gordo is launching the opponent to the very corners of the blastzone. If Gordo had slightly more vertical or significantly more horizontal knockback angle, it would KO much earlier. However, Gordo would cease to be a decent combo tool e.g. triangle set ups (dtilt into Gordo into upair.)
So, would you change Gordo's launch or keep it the way it is now?