Is Sonic Mid-tier material? Is he better than Bowser again? (Read the OP)

[Jim Morrison]

Ike gets ***** by high tiers.
Ike ***** low tiers. Gee, I wonder why Ike is winning all the low tier tournaments.

 

[JayBee]

Personally I would put spacing/range on that list. And maybe aproaches.



Ike has more reliable kill set ups then Sonic. Sonic is able to punish more frequently but Ike can punish a lot harder when given the chance, potential taking a stock.



However Ike's range makes him safer in certain situations than Sonic.

i'd add spacing, you be right on dat son.

name his kill setups, because Ikes have to mindgame them just as much as sonic from what i see, and we have the advantage of superious speed and mobility.

Ike's range does make him safer when hes jumping and throwing out aerials, then jabbing the empty space in front of him to gut check you. but from what I can tell sonic can be just as safe by faking approaches and well, simply running around seems to do a good job of messing wiht the opponents plans. they guess every time they attempt something at that point...

 

[da K.I.D.]

kojin,
1. its harder to CG ike than sonic, cus sonic springs on frame 5 and ike jabs on frame 3

2. ikes kill set ups,
jab to anything.
up tilt,
f tilt
fair
turnaround bair,
f smash
reverse f smash

and theres
back throw to dash attack

 

[JayBee]

1.: i know kid, i mentioned that already.

2: jab to anything is a bit extreme, the actual examples are not.
given that, he still doesn't do well in tourneys against the best characters, why is that kid? please, do tell. with his list of "kill setups" he should be doing better than sonic, yet tis not the case. explain yourself.

 

[infomon]

Sonic also jabs on frame 3

...

lulz

too bad it's no good

 

[Jim Morrison]

I never do **** out of Ike's jab. His jab combo itself is good enough. Killing on the edge at 100% is so LOL

 

[Browny]

^^^

DI up + momentum cancel you should live a lot longer than 100 lol

I think people overestimate ikes recovery of all things... when I watch videos of pros vs ikes its ridiculous how often and at how low % they can get gimped. I cant imagine ike going anywhere but down on the tier list

 

[Kitamerby]

Ike gets ***** by high tiers.
Ike ***** low tiers. Gee, I wonder why Ike is winning all the low tier tournaments.

TO: Ike is mid tier, so he's banned now in low tiers. Sorry guys.
M2K: I main Ike in low tiers.
TO: As I was saying, you can still use Ike in low tiers.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

^^ Haha, lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its funny cus its true

 

[ROOOOY!]

What's funny is that we're beating a dead horse.

Sonic > Ike.

When was the last time you saw Sonic gimped at 30%?

Furthermore, Ike just sucks, recovery aside. In a game built around camping (or at least it gives you a very strong advantage in a match) , Ike has little to no offensive options for most situations, and very little to close the gap safetly whilst being projectile spammed which is why a lot of the cast **** him with projectiles. Factor in that he only has a collection of 4 or 5 useable moves against half decent people, and he's not really viable at all.

Generally, Ike is only good against bad players, who run into loads of ******** **** all the time.

Like myself.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*applauds most of the Sonic boards for not just going "lol Ike sucks" like the majority of the character boards*

 

[DDM]

*applauds most of the Sonic boards for not just going "lol Ike sucks" like the majority of the character boards*

They say the same thing about us, too.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Generally, Ike is only good against bad players, who run into loads of ******** **** all the time.

Like myself.

Same. Ike is my kryptonite. I only play on wifi and all you have to do is F-air and jab to keep me at bay. Then jab me offstage and force my 2nd jump on-stage and F-smash me. Then I ragequit.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Meh, that's only online though, ****ty nintendo half arsed online. And you know how Ike is online.

I don't think you'd have half the problems offline, I certainly don't.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Meh, that's only online though, ****ty nintendo half arsed online. And you know how Ike is online.

I don't think you'd have half the problems offline, I certainly don't.

Ike is worse online then offline though. Onlike kills our spacing ability, timing ability, and hurts jab canceling. >_>

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You guys need to play online like you did a year ago. Now you're SPACING and ****. Just do random usmashes and you'll win! Stick to playing well offline. Play like a douche online.

 

[ROOOOY!]

You're Ike! You don't need to space. You ****ing throw your sword like 20 metres in the air and ****. XD

Seriously though, the timing problem is shared, as is the spacing. Ike having wtf range on most moves with long lasting hitboxes is hard to punish on lag-fi. Especially someone like Sonic who I main, with meh range in general and with his game mostly hinging on timing and spacing punishments correctly suffers a lot more on wi-fi than Ike does, particularly against Ike.

Jab cancelling I can see being ****ed over. I don't see much point discussing online though.

 

[Chis]

Ike has a punishment game too, but yeah he sucks on wifi. Moving on...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think it's just that Ike gets camped too hard. How's his performance on tourney legal stages?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I think it's just that Ike gets camped too hard. How's his performance on tourney legal stages?

Pirate Ship? Amazing.
FD? Okay. Worse neutral.
BF? One of the best there thanks to his Uair outlasting spot dodges. Basically you on platform + Ike under platform = pain.
SV? Meh IMO. Some Ikes like it. I find it too small to space well.
Jungle Japes? BAN'D by the Ike.
Rainbow Cruise? Ussi uses this stage as a CP with Ike. >_>
Frigate? A bit on the poor side.

We're fine on most stages, just JJ and Frigate give us some trouble. FD can be annoying if it's someone like D3.

 

[Guilhe]

I liketo play Ike in smashville, I find that the platform movement helps me tumble opponents over it with Uair. Brinstar is a great stage for Ike too.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Wow at people actually daring to say Ike sucks online. Offline, sure you can be a punishment char, but online really? You're trying to space and punish. Fair'ing and Jab is much more effective. I hate people saying that Ike sucks on wifi.

 

[Chis]

I hate it when people don't listen to common sense. It's like the people who say Sonic is god-like on wifi when he's not. This discussion about whether he's good on wifi is stupid and unrelated so stop discussing it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

>_> We main Ike Gf2. We know where he's good, and where he's terrible.

Any other questions about stages or other offline things when it comes to Ike?

 

[Tenki]

Everyone's main is terrible online, because if they main him offline, they try to bring their offline playstyle online and are like "arrgh i can't do x movement that requires precision online >:O"

@ Ike mains, what do you think of YI?

I recently found out about the whole shield **** on Aether there so I can totally see it as a horrible counterpick since having to aether recover gives you two possibilities - shield **** or edgehog :[

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The blastoff glitch only happens if we try to land on stage on that one side. We aim for the ledge for a reason. >_> I've never heard of it actually happening in tournament play.

I personally don't like the stage, but that's for the same reason as Smashvile: too small for my personal playing style.

 

[Guilhe]

Actually, Ike doesn't get killed by it, he just slides away. He regains his second jump for having touched the ground.

 

[Chis]

Sonic does fine on a lot of stages too except brinstar and japes. Too bad he hasn't got a stage like pirate ship :/

Also Sonic has a better time approaching then Ike due to his mobility, which helps vs Olimar, Falco and some others.

 

[Hidden MachineS]

Way, way, way, better than Ike.

 

[chaoechidna]

yup. i play ike all the time. way better. i'd say 60:40 sonic. Maybe 57:43 for technicalities. I mean Ike's jab combo is freakishly powerful. If you get a really good Ike maybe 55:45, still sonic though. Speed is too much for poor ike..

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Not a matchup dis cuh shuunnnnnn.

 

[Chis]

So guys, can we come to a conclusion rather than one liners? :O

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic does not get gimped, ever. Ike does sometimes. Ike may have a move that kill on 50%, but that doesn't mean it can actually hit (lol hypocryt I am O_o) I don't see Ike killing below 100% often and his best move to kill is B-air. Sonic kills usually at 130-150. I believe racking damage is easier for Sonic. Sonic lives usually just as long Ike with momentum cancelling down-B. Maybe longer cause he doesn't get gimped. Ike's jab is basically his game and gets ***** by projectiles since they force him to approach, which isn't exactly his strong point.
Sonic is better, now flame my post Chis with things you have done to me which doesn't count because it was wifi, I suck and Ike is my kryptonite.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I thought Icies were your kryptonite.

 

[Camalange]

I believe racking damage is easier for Sonic. Sonic lives usually just as long Ike with momentum cancelling down-B. Maybe longer cause he doesn't get gimped.

Don't forget to Fair first, then DownB ;D

 

[Guilhe]

I believe people are underestimating Ike survivability. At least from my experience, he gets killed under 100% more rarely than his opponents on most matchups. I don’t know Sonic very well so I cannot hope to compare how easily those two characters can rack up damage. What I do know is that it has never been hard for me to rack damage while playing as Ike. Mostly thanks to his jab and jab canceling, but also the powerful damage of his tilts and aerials.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Don't forget to Fair first, then DownB ;D

Does DownB do a better job at momentum cancelling than SideB? That seems rather counter-intuitive.

 

[Camalange]

Does DownB do a better job at momentum cancelling than SideB?

Yes it does.



I forget the exact reason why, but I think it has something to do with the way SideB is released, becuase it pulls Sonic backward a little first, then launches him. I just know infzy did an insane amount of research along with Tenki and dnes and decided that FF Fair + DownB was the best method.

 

[Chis]

I believe people are underestimating Ike survivability. At least from my experience, he gets killed under 100% more rarely than his opponents on most matchups.

Yep, but in match ups where the character can gimp him very easily, he gets ***** in aka Olimar, Dedede, Falco, MK. This is not a problem for Sonic though, add in his recovery and good momentum cancel, and it could be argued that on average (or at least in the mentioned match ups) that Sonic lives a bit longer than Ike. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

I don’t know Sonic very well so I cannot hope to compare how easily those two characters can rack up damage. What I do know is that it has never been hard for me to rack damage while playing as Ike. Mostly thanks to his jab and jab canceling, but also the powerful damage of his tilts and aerials.

Ike racks damage better them Sonic imo