Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Adriel]

Does anyone do this?

WHen you use Ivysaur's Bair, you fast-fall directly down with the control stick and you hit the C-stick at a diagonally down angle to produce a Bair? Ivysaur falls very quickly and ends up only doing one of the Bair hits. The lag is just about the same as regularly fast-falling, as far as I can tell.

• Damage output is even worse.
• Less punishable on block

I think it might also be easier to link an attack to single-hit Bair, but I'm really bad at controling any character, so I haven't been able to test this in a match very often yet.

This is helpful for Squirtle as well. If you do it with Charizard's Bair only the spiking portion of the move will hit (on stage).

Single hit back-air has almost no knockback and hit-stun, but I still like to use bullet seed afterwards and sometimes f-smash. Fast-falling with Squirtle's back-air, his f-air and n-air too, is great for following up aftwards with tilts, jab, etc.

 

[Miles.]

I love the single hit bair,

its really good for throwing off someones rhythm from the usual 2 hit bair.

i like following it up with a FSmash.

 

[Steeler]

i do bairs really close to the ground too. effective with squirtle and ivysaur. squirtle has so little lag, you just stick that bair out and then quickly ftilt or jab right after. ivy's is nice as well. not much of a difference to a normal bair, but it may be possible to do a normal one and a partial one in one hop. you can follow up like usual regardless of which bair it is.

not good with charizard. very weakly spike them down to the ground, and leave yourself vulnerable with the landing lag.

no no.

 

[Retro Gaming]

not good with charizard. very weakly spike them down to the ground, and leave yourself vulnerable with the landing lag.

no no.

Olol. No, definately don't use it. I was just mentioning it becasue I thought it was interesting. Not worth using.

It is worth using for edgeguarding, though. You fall through the sky very fast and you just flick the person with the sweetspot and they're dead. I do this with Squirtle and Charizard most, but not much with Ivysaur. When I go off-stage with Ivysaur its usually for a Nair spike.

 

[slave1]

so i dont know if anyone here has played brawl with L canceling but if you have it makes ivy a thousand times better. just imagine being able to short hop any of his attacks and have no lag like on his forward air and his up air. it is sexy

 

[CHOMPY]

The instant tether edgeguard is a really handy technique. Ive used that on several matches and its made my Ivysaur alot better.

 

[Itburns]

I think youre the 1st person to actually acknowledge its usefulness in a match

hells yes its good, risk = reward

 

[Kith]

I've known about "instant tethering" for a while, but I never really considered using it in battle until the discussion came up in the boards. I've added it into my Ivysaur game and it's so much better. Try ledging a Marth from above the ledge with an instant tether. It's one of the greatest feelings :-P

 

[Kith]

No he doesn't. Charizard if you can scare him you have a better chance of winning however this won't happen most likely, and if the MK isn't scared then your scrwd. In fact zard should be the one scared as **** in this matchup.

Edit: Also the reason why Ivy's dtilt isn't better than Marth's or MK's, is that although it may have better range it is slower and does NOT have IASA frames, which is present in Marth's and MK's. IASA frames make a move safer on the block.

I've recently played some PT, and with Ivy I have a question about the jab. Once I initiate the second jab it seems to do a normal jab and then automatically go into her rapid jab for like 2 hits, after the second one. Technically does that mean Ivy has 2 jabs > rapid jabs, or just one jab > rapid jab. Anyway, the good thing about this second jab is that it seems you have minimum post lag after the 2 rapid jabs. Possible followups? ftilt, dtilt, grab, d-smash or jab?

The first jab has no commitment. After you initiate the second jab, you're stuck for two more. Repeat.

 

[GuruKid]

Instant tether = the perfect gimp for unwary spacies. haha.

 

[Toby.]

I think youre the 1st person to actually acknowledge its usefulness in a match

hells yes its good, risk = reward

Last night I wasn't thinking very clearly and ended up running off to instant tether hog a link player. Needless to say his hookshot snapped on before the tether, so I fell to my doom.

But I'd edgehogged successfully with it in the previous stock, so it's all good

 

[Steeler]

i'm still trying to learn all the nuances for instant tethering.

 

[GuruKid]

Oddly enough, Ivy's tether sometimes extend quite farther out from the orginal tethering position. There's a certain spot I've pinpointed (well, kinda... I get it 50% of the time) that after the tether occurs, she goes considerably upward.

Tether for mindgames and uber edgeguarding, son.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

In Soviet Russia, Ivysaur edgeguards you!
You knew it was coming sometime or another. lol

Myself, I've been using this technique with moderate success.

 

[Bomber7]

I'm just trying to develop my range game with Ivy and make sure when I have to go close range, I make sure I get my timing right, and also instant tether rulz, especially agasint Ike.

 

[Onxy]

Can someone please test these following things for me? I don't own this game anymore, so I can't do it myself.

What I need tested are: Bair to pivot grab. Chained Nairs (it spikes from the back, so try to chain many of them). And a full hop Fair approach while DI'ing backwards to avoid punishment (and maybe DI'ing downwards too if the opponent is small).

 

[Steeler]

against attacks with range equal to or greater than lucas's fsmash, you need precise spacing and positioning or you will be hit or clash attacks.

bair to pivot grab works great for characters that think a dash grab after you bair will get through to ivysaur. grabs with range like samus/zss will still get you but average characters will not grab you. sometimes you'll both miss the grab if you pivot out too far, but your pivot grab has less lag than pretty much every dash grab in the game.

idk about nairs. maybe at low percents.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Man, I keep having technical problems with Ivysaur. I keep jabbing out of Bairs instead of using Ftilt, and sometimes I'll Bair, Fast-fall, crouch, and then be open for quite a bit.

I'm going to be playing solo Ivysaur with the aid of the new code to see if I can't change it up a little bit.

Nair gets better every day.

 

[typh]

nair nair uair combos are too ****ing good

 

[CHOMPY]

are there any aerials that I should fast fall with?

 

[choknater]

what is the instant tether?

 

[Itburns]

nair nair uair combos are too ****ing good

you know its funny you mention that, I have been using the x2 nair uair combo alot. sadly only works at low percentages.

i have been using x2 nair as shield pressure often puroposely DI-ing the doublejumped nair behind the opponent so I can fast fall with a bair.

@ choknator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVSmzY_VRrw

 

[choknater]

ooh not bad. i'm used to that stuff since sheik's tether stuff that i invented on norfair was way faster lol, but ivy looks pretty good too

 

[Trip.]

Well further the meta Choksonnut and figure some cool stuff out with Ivys tether.

 

[choknater]

nah lol i think u pretty much covered it

just saying its easier than sheiks stuff

 

[Trip.]

yeah i dabble in shiek and the tether being Side B is way gay.

Up b is niceer fer sure

 

[typh]

razor leaf -> grab -> dthrow

dash attack on a falling airdodging enemy close to the ground -> ****

predict -> punishhhh with a hyphen usmash. wayyy too ****, learn to force dodges and kill at 30%

***ALSO*** dthrow -> up-b, the up-b never hits but they'll ALWAYS airdodge and DI towards you after the up-b expecting an easy punish, show them wrong with a sick nair combo, or wait till the airdodge is over & bullet seed in place (try this next time =^.^=)

 

[Onxy]

Yeah, I did need to work on my Usmash with Ivy. It's too powerful to not use.

How about Dthrow to a Uair if they dodge right away?

 

[Homelessvagrant]

it is powerful but way to predictable. I find uair to be way more effective. I love using razor leaf to short jump uair on platforming opponents (particularly the ones in battlefield).

 

[Onxy]

I love Uair

Off topic: Does anyone else find that a full hop retreating Fair from above to be an effective approach? I think it's better than a Bair for approach.

 

[Steeler]

depends on the opponent. retreating fair is waaaaaay more effective against olimar than bair, imo.

 

[Onxy]

If you DI downward while retreating, you can still hit the small people if you full hop it.

Bair is a terrible approach IMO.

 

[Steeler]

again, depends on the opponent. some characters have few options against it, like ness/ganondorf, who's attacks have too little range or are too slow (or both) to really do anything but run in, shield it, and hope they got close enough to punish before ivy ftilts/pivot grabs/whatever.

naturally you'll want to use razor leaf as your main 'approach', ie getting closer. once you are at mid range you can start bairing or whatever.

 

[CoonTail]

again, depends on the opponent. some characters have few options against it, like ness/ganondorf, who's attacks have too little range or are too slow (or both) to really do anything but run in, shield it, and hope they got close enough to punish before ivy ftilts/pivot grabs/whatever.

naturally you'll want to use razor leaf as your main 'approach', ie getting closer. once you are at mid range you can start bairing or whatever.

Steeler nails it at the bottom, if the opponent dont have a reflector I love to razor leaf all the way till i am close enough to do something else like ftilt or grab. If the ness or ganon are on the other side I would be tempted to bair them just because they are left hiding behind their shield and ivy eats shield.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Has anyone tried rolling to the ledge to bullet seed ****?
i have a friend who uses to roll behind me when i start to roll, then i roll behind him and he does the same... that until we reach the ledge, where my bullet seed never fails... i know its a bad habit for him, but he may not be the only one... and anyway you may have the upper hand against someone at the ledge, just roll to him and bullet seed, it works wonders

 

[typh]

no good player is going to roll towards you ever

 

[Trip.]

razor leaf -> grab -> dthrow

dash attack on a falling airdodging enemy close to the ground -> ****

predict -> punishhhh with a hyphen usmash. wayyy too ****, learn to force dodges and kill at 30%

***ALSO*** dthrow -> up-b, the up-b never hits but they'll ALWAYS airdodge and DI towards you after the up-b expecting an easy punish, show them wrong with a sick nair combo, or wait till the airdodge is over & bullet seed in place (try this next time =^.^=)

Wizdom.

no good player is going to roll towards you ever

Truth.

 

[The Derrit]

If you get a dthrow at about 80-90 (depending on character i'd have to do more research) though, you can wait for the airdodge and hit off a full hopped upb with no huge problem in my experience. its a thought at the least

 

[typh]

it is powerful but way to predictable.

lol ok

slow =/= predictable

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Bullet seed to fsmash works some times... but it can b predictable, so mix it up