KIDs ATs (only high level Sonics need enter here) NOW WITH CHAR. SPECIFIC ATS!!!

[Anthinus]

I'm testing the theory 2... It seems you like to do it facing the opponent (I'll do it that way later) but I'll talk about what I see if you aren't facing him:

-When you land the Bair and press Z to grab, the game could buffer the shield instead of grab if you do it soon.
-It needs prectice to avoid the shield appearence, the best way to practice is keep pressed back all the way and after you do the Bair press Z repeatly, if you do it right a.s.a. he touch the ground he'll do a turn around grab. If you do it wrong the shield appear or you'll grab the opposite way.
-Bair push away the opponent, but sometimes it get grabbed before leaving the grab range.
-Its a very very fast action and not very difficult to do with some practice.

I think this way is safer than the one facincing the opponet cuz as Kinzer said the disjointed part where Sonic's body is cannot be covered with Bair priority as well as the other side of the attack...

I'll test this when Sonic is facing the opponent... Any questions?

 

[Kinzer]

Oh you wanted me test it with Sonic's front facing the attack?

Ah jeez, and I've been doing it wrong this whole time. :/

 

[da K.I.D.]

well now that i see rsr's description of the move it actually seems more sexy, and slightly more technical to do it back turned.

i never really thought of that since i like spacing my back airs, so in my mind the back air would hit their shield at wayyyy too far a distance for a standing grab to happen. but its a good idea, and if it works, more power to sonic.

 

[memphischains]

some of these need to be reworded

 

[lil cj]

So many AT's to learn
Gotta love Sonic!

 

[Anthinus]

I do my first test of theory 2 in real games against JanuS this afternoon (we played half an hour , I'm a busy man remember that)... This isn't very hard! I did it once against the shield (Not sure if he grab or input something, but I hit the shield and did a turn around grab *pretty cool*) and another time when he spotdodged my Bair! I could see how JanuS raised his eyebrows with the corner of my eyes LOL...

This is really good, but needs more testing... This theory (that I'm pretty sure will become an AT) will help against the punishment you usually receive if people shield your Bair. If you want me to upload something about this just say it...

 

[da K.I.D.]

some of these need to be reworded

How so my good man?

help is always appreciated

i want it to be as applicable for as many people as i can.
EDIT
yea, if you get the time (i know youre very busy) if you could make a vid of all the different bair grab methods, that would be great

back turned
facing forward
punishing spotdodges
out of spinshot

all that good stuff.

 

[Anthinus]

Ok I'll do it, but expect it for the next week (Cuz I have to record real matches stuff against JanuS and the other guys).

 

[da K.I.D.]

perfect

whenever is totally fine.

as long as it happens.

 

[memphischains]

these almost need to be dumbed down.

people are stupid, is basically what i'm getting at
maybe if they were written more technically

 

[da K.I.D.]

that kinda contradicts itself doesnt it?

the stuff needs to be dumbed down by being written more technically?

also, i tried to plan for that, thats why a lot of the ATs have demo vids to show what im trying to do or what im basing the move off of.

 

[memphischains]

you get what i mean

 

[da K.I.D.]

i dont think i do...

maybe if you meant to say "written more basic" instead of "written more technically" but i really cant tell if thats your intention or not.

lol i feel like im proving you right when you say people are stupid.

 

[Anthinus]

lol i feel like im proving you right when you say people are stupid.

That's the first thing you learn when you study publicity stuff (peoples stupidity LOL)... This is important cuz if people don't understand what you are selling, etc... Your publicity is worthless junk and isn't working for the goal you made it...

If you miss something thinking that they have to know cuz its obvius, someone will get lost for sure...

If you don't detail something or you explanation is too complex, someone's head will blow up...

 

[da K.I.D.]

hmm... very true, but thats why the OP says only good sonics should be in here anyways...

you have to have a pretty detailed understanding of the character before you even come in here, that way, im hoping im setting a base level as to the sonic knowledge of the people that come in this thread.

if newer sonic players come in here and dont know what im talking about, they can feel free to ask about it in the FAQ thread. Ive seen it happen at least once already.

 

[Tenki]

If you don't detail something or your explanation is too complex, someone's head will blow up...

;_;

tl;dr world.

poor stickies.

 

[MalcolmM]

awww tenki is back...good times.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i was bout to put up another AT/theory that i came up with but I for got what it was.

all of a sudden I remember why I made this thread lolz...

oh wait, i just remembered...

 

[da K.I.D.]

KID AT #9!!

Wario ****!!

So a little while back, the peaches decided to join the ranks of yoshi, ganon, ZSS, and D3 in the ever expanding number of characters that can do some thing gay to wario out of his Grab Release (GR). If you missed the epicness, heres the demo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c0I-ybNEwI
and if that wasnt **** enough, that GR combo can lead into this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4sTCS7knCM

So, thats pretty win. Now I thought of how I could apply this to sonic. And heres what I cam up with.

If you air release wario, you can jump up and footstool him into an untechable landing. And at that point you can either immediately down air (a la KID AT #2), or pull a spring to down air TO INITIATE A JAB LOCK.

So yea, sonic has a 100% effective, non damage dependant jab combo setup on Wario, that when perfected, will always lead into a forward smash.

Credit for this technique goes out to GodismyRock and Praxis for inspiration, and Gf2tw, for being the only person in the Steak Break Room epic and beast enough to test and confirm this for me.

*** Let it be noted that Malcom has stated that when played correctly, its INCREDIBLY difficult to land a grab on wario. So this doesnt turn into an auto win for us. However, being the fastest character in the game, I think we can sneak 1 or 2 grabs in on wario, and i think that once this is properly implemented, Wario will not be on the "this character ***** sonic" list anymore for a lot of sonics.


EDIT: this is really good, and i had to post this so i could see what i was doing, please dont infract me.

 

[Anthinus]

hmm... very true, but thats why the OP says only good sonics should be in here anyways...

you have to have a pretty detailed understanding of the character before you even come in here, that way, im hoping im setting a base level as to the sonic knowledge of the people that come in this thread.

if newer sonic players come in here and dont know what im talking about, they can feel free to ask about it in the FAQ thread. Ive seen it happen at least once already.

You're right! I forgot compleatly about the OP

;_;

tl;dr world.

poor stickies.

Don't worry Tenki, I see your stuff detailed but simple to understand...

I have no time to read the new AT, but I'll do it tonight

 

[Trillion]

very awesome #9. I don't have much experience against Wario, but I have had some tough fights against him. Is there any other characters this can apply to? Kirby, Diddy, or Olimar? I don't know much about grab releases, but don't characters who aren't touching the ground when they get grab released always go into aerial grab release? If so, then doesn't that mean that any character that gets air released can have this done to them? Wario may be easier because of his large size compared to other short characters, but surely jiggs or kirby could be fat and short enough right? What about MK????????? Sonic as an MK counter?!?!

Either way, we need to keep finding stuff like this for other characters and knock sonic right into top tier!!

 

[da K.I.D.]

first of all, you are correct that air releases happen to characters whose feet are off the ground.

2nd. wario get GR ***** because his air GR:
a. leaves him vulnerable for a long period of time.
b. makes him rise straight up and straight down, which means you dont have to run up to follow him.

3. every other characters air GR makes them fly back wards which makes it harder to get followups on them, since you have to run after them

last of all. sonic has a garanteed running forward air, or upsmash out of the air releases of about 2/3rds of the characters in the game. possibly more...
Some random guy who doesnt even play sonic just decided to come in make a thread about it, and do all the testing for all the characters.

let me see if i can find it.

EDIT:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213892
we have a garanteed fair/usmash on air GR on every character in the game except for fox, wolf, JP, and 2 more

 

[Camalange]

The only way to get a GUARANTEED air release is by grabbing him out of his second jump, correct?

Anyway, this seems like good stuff. lol, everything in this thread is fun to discuss, lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i dont think you can guarantee an air release 100% because the opponent does have a measure of control over the situation.

holding your opponent over the edge is a great way to increase your chances tho.

but most players dont know all the mechanics that goes into which release you get so just not pummeling them when you want them to air release should suffice, if you go back like a week in the sBR, i thoroughly explained all the mechanics of air releases.

 

[Camalange]

A week back in the SBR is like sifting through 100 pages, lol.

But yeah, I know the edge thing works but then I feel getting the free Fsmash would be more beneficial than trying to do FSJ shenanigans offstage.

I'm sure I can find more info on GR shtuff somewhere, thanks.

 

[Tenki]

You can get a guaranteed air-release:
1) on the edge of platforms (opponent is dangling off edge)
2) on hills, if you grab facing "downwards"

"airgrabbing" someone only makes it so whatever you do doesn't restore their airjump counter.

However, I did notice that if your opponent is higher than you (off-ground) and you grab, it will sometimes have them held up higher than normal position (if you would have grabbed them off the floor).

A week back in the SBR is like sifting through 100 pages, lol.

But yeah, I know the edge thing works but then I feel getting the free Fsmash would be more beneficial than trying to do FSJ shenanigans offstage.

I'm sure I can find more info on GR shtuff somewhere, thanks.

add &pp=50 at the end of the URL.

It makes the SBR so much easier to sift through

 

[memphischains]

tenki is a scrub

fun fact

 

[Tenki]

Stop your exposé campaign D:

regardless of the truth.

¦D

 

[Anthinus]

The KID... I decided to do this thing about BTAG (Bair Turn Around Grab) as soon as posible, In case a work appears from no where (you know, bussiness guys have to be prepared for stuff like that). I went to DEC's Shop today and played a bit with JanuS. I did this BTAG stuff sometimes and recorded the matches (I did better examples in other matches but they were 3:00+ , however the ones I'll use are enough). I'm fixing some probs in the matches (stupid Capture Card...) but the vid will be ready today before dawn... If you want to change the name or add something you have to tell me SOON... I'll give you full credit for creating the Theory 2 and the AT, I'll only take credit for the making the video and testing stuff (do you agree?)... I'll continue doing this. I'll continue doing this on Vegas!

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. BTAG is a cool name, i approve.
2. stop being dumb and hack your wii.

hack it,
take the replay time limit out.
take the tripping out,

and make it play airman ga taosenai whenever sonic fights MK on final D

and make it play all good songs regardless of stage.

 

[Anthinus]

1. BTAG is a cool name, i approve.
2. stop being dumb and hack your wii.

hack it,
take the replay time limit out.
take the tripping out,

and make it play airman ga taosenai whenever sonic fights MK on final D

and make it play all good songs regardless of stage.

I have a big trauma about moded Wiis... Some guys here uses their Wiis to stop their doors now (or as a paperweight)...

Something happened and I cant finish the BTAG stuff, you have to wait until tomorrow night, but I'll give you a bit of it until that:

** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBA982oDaGQ **

*EDIT: You have to comment with this tiny vid until Monday or so (sorry, work appeared from nowhere and destroyed my weekend ). Meanwhile you can practice guys!

 

[Chis]

Good video but that's not an AT at all :/

If someone shields the Bair, of course you're going to grab them.

 

[choice_brawler]

It looks like in the vid that the lagless bair did not actually get a hitbox, so its like a sneaky sneaky bair that makes someone shield and then get grabbed. You gotta turn around somewhere in there and throw in a grab, but im pretty sure the bair didnt have a hitbox cuz it didnt seem like anyone's shields were damaged.

 

[Chis]

It has a hit box and it was auto-cancelled.

 

[choice_brawler]

Not all of the bairs had hitboxes, for example the final one against falco didnt. Though the nature of the technique isnt certain since this is all we were given. Maybe the bair is supposed to have a hitbox, the name really doesnt imply otherwise, just tells you exactly whats going on. Sonic bairs, then turns around, then grabs.

 

[Chis]

Falco side stepped, watch closely.

 

[da K.I.D.]

doesnt matter.

i back air enough to know that that bair didnt have a hitbox.

but either way, it looked pretty sexy, even if it wasnt what I originally thought of.

 

[Chis]

Kid, how can it not have a hitbox? If you put it in high quality and look at 0:46, it's clear that Falco side step as soon as he touched the ground, (dust near him).

 

[da K.I.D.]

bair hitbox comes out on frame 13.

if you land on the ground 10 frames after inputting the bair command, you will land the bair animation and it wont have a hitbox.

the falco is a great example of what i do all the time, the falco was going to hold the shield and hit A a soon as he got visual comfirmation that he got hit, he never got that, so he reacted slowly and got grabbed instead. there fore it doesnt matter if he side stepped or not cause he was holdign the shield button, and the back air didnt get its hitbox out.

sorry if I sound like a ****, not my intention.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I have a big trauma about moded Wiis... Some guys here uses their Wiis to stop their doors now (or as a paperweight)...

That is probably due to them hard modding the wii.
This is involved is soft modding and it won't brick your wii.