Kirby General Discussion

[ChivalRuse]

Fox players don't need to know what to do. They can win by just walking and up-smashing (well, not really, but you know what I mean).

 

[Pink Reaper]

Fox players can win by standing on platforms and doing fall through Bairs against anything you try and do. It's literally 100% safe against Kirby.

Also according to Nashun kirby can be grabbed while crouching by Fox. I didnt know this as I stopped doing Kirby/Fox around 2 years ago.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Kirby can get around bair by dash dance grabbing. But you're pretty much right about that strategy being annoying, since the reward is WAY higher for him than for Kirby landing a grab. LOL.

 

[Triple R]

Also according to Nashun kirby can be grabbed while crouching by Fox. I didnt know this as I stopped doing Kirby/Fox around 2 years ago.

Yes, this is very true. Fox can grab you while crouching. If Kirby could crouch Fox's grab the matchup would be easier for sure.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I literally never knew that lol. That's how long since it's been since i played that match up. I just outright refuse.

Edit: for those who dont know, there's also certain frames in Kirby's crouch where he moves a bit and it makes him ever so much taller, sort of like Doc/Mario/Luigi. During these frames he can be grabbed by characters who otherwise would not be able to, like Samus. Kinda gay.

 

[Nashun]

I think Link and Samus can grab Kirby when he's crouching if they're at a certain range (like maximum).

 

[Pink Reaper]

I feel like i should know this but the samus player i play with never goes for a grab when i play kirby cus he thinks it's too dangerous.

 

[Nashun]

I feel like i should know this but the samus player i play with never goes for a grab when i play kirby cus he thinks it's too dangerous.

It may be depending on how you define dangerous. A whiff gives Kirby a free hammer.

 

[BunBun]

At any point, he can be grabbed by fox.

Also, IIRC, Marth's dashgrab gets him too.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I don't think any variation of Marth's grab can get Kirby, since his duck is lower than Jiggs'.

 

[ryuu seika]

Also according to Nashun kirby can be grabbed while crouching by Fox. I didnt know this as I stopped doing Kirby/Fox around 2 years ago.

There is nothing I can do against that grab. It's the one thing that keeps me from four stocking AI8 Fox. Even Falco I can take but that grab is cruel.

Edit: for those who dont know, there's also certain frames in Kirby's crouch where he moves a bit and it makes him ever so much taller, sort of like Doc/Mario/Luigi. During these frames he can be grabbed by characters who otherwise would not be able to, like Samus. Kinda gay.

That explains a lot. I also really dislike Samus' tether grab because it's distance means it ruins a lot of my approaches if I fall for it (which I do).

 

[Triple R]

I think Link and Samus can grab Kirby when he's crouching if they're at a certain range (like maximum).

Yeah, I'm in the dark about these characters and their grabs. I just avoid the situation because I never know if I'm going to be grabbed or not. If I would have to choose a point where Kirby gets grabbed, I would agrees it's probably maximum range.

Also, IIRC, Marth's dashgrab gets him too.

Normally I duck under Marth's grab, but I have been grabbed before surprisingly. I'm assuming it was a dash grab because the times it has happened the Marth is extremely close and almost overlapping when he gets me.

 

[ryuu seika]

Yes, Kirby does appear to be grabbable by Samus at maximum range during the point of is crouch idle stance where he moves. I'm not sure about the other points.

 

[BunBun]

I feel like i should know this but the samus player i play with never goes for a grab when i play kirby cus he thinks it's too dangerous.

The Samus player I play with goes for lots of grabs.



Sadface.

 

[Pink Reaper]

That's cus space balls understands that no amount of wiffing will make kirby dangerous.

 

[BunBun]

The only time Samus has to be scared of Kirby is offstage

 

[Massive]

You can duck fox's grab just like Jiggs if you start the duck animation as he starts the grab, it works on almost every character and is annoying.
Marth can dashgrab, but not standing grab. It works great if the marth is used to JC Grabbing dudes.

I'm seriously considering dropping my jiggs main in favor of kirby... I got 4 stocked by AustinRC 3x last week on Jiggs and then beat him with Kirby in bracket.

I'm apparently only good at playing janky-*** characters.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Wow. You beat Arc in a set with Kirby? Or was it only a game? Either way, that's Massively impressive.

 

[BunBun]

ARC needs to stop trashtalking and develop skills.

YOU HEARD ME BABY

 

[Massive]

Lost the first match on Jiggs, went kirby, won.
Went kirby again, lost on FoD when I airdodged into the side of the stage on my last stock at 0%.

He was at 104%. I AM THE CHOKE MASTER.

 

[BunBun]

MASSIVE CHOKE, Massive

 

[ChivalRuse]

Kirby counters Marth.

 

[Massive]

Kirby doesn't counter marth, it's just an actually decent matchup for kirby if you space it correctly.

I am almost convinced Kirby counters Gannondorf though.

 

[Beat!]

I think you just successfully summoned Kage.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Kirby doesn't counter marth, it's just an actually decent matchup for kirby if you space it correctly.

I am almost convinced Kirby counters Gannondorf though.

Wait, how? What can Kirby do that's so good against Ganon?

 

[BunBun]

***** him in the face, unless Ganon camps fair and uair.

 

[Massive]

***** him in the face, unless Ganon camps fair and uair.

This.

A ducking Kirby is not grabbable by Gannondorf.
You can also duck neutral A, wizard kick, and crouch-cancel forward B up to 60%.
Additionally, his recovery is pretty easy to edgeguard and gimp with dtilt/ftilt and dair.

His main options are camping uair, bair, and fair, which is pretty much normal for gannondorf, except against Kirby he loses the free setup out of grab.

edit: I can't forget about utilt/dtilt shield poking (Gdorf is so tall, and grabbing kirby out of a dtilt is nearly impossible) and like other tall chars, you can employ uair shield madness.

 

[BunBun]

Ganon is a character that Kirby gets to play super aggro on. Never let up pressure, 'cause you die in 6 hits.

 

[Beat!]

That sounds like the majority of Ganon's matchups.

 

[Triple R]

I basically agree with what you guys are saying about Ganondorf. The more I play it, the more it seems like an easier and easier matchup.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You cant crouch camp THE PUNCH!

 

[BunBun]

You cant crouch camp THE PUNCH!

No, but it's easy to powershield it out of a crouch, then punish.


Just remember that you CANNOT punish his spaced fair on your shield. He either pushes you too far or you get jabbed.

 

[ryuu seika]

You cant crouch camp THE PUNCH!

Really? You can with Captain Falcon.

 

[BunBun]

Falcon doesn't have The Punch. He has a knee. And you can't crouch away from it, he can still sweetspot you.

 

[ryuu seika]

so "The Punch" wasn't referring to Falcon/Warlock then?

 

[BunBun]

....Actually that's understandable now.
Read this:

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.

Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!

One of the greatest things to come out of Gamefaqs.

 

[Beat!]

Such a legendary post.

 

[Triple R]

so "The Punch" wasn't referring to Falcon/Warlock then?

No, when people say "The Punch" they mean fair with Ganondorf. It's basically from that famous quote Bunbun posted.

 

[Tamoo]

Or humorously recreated in video form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvW_Xo__4m8

 

[Massive]

Kirby with 'dorf's power is top tier.
Mostly because of HAIR.