If you're needing any more help, its also good to watch Hack's Kirby or Armada's Kirby.Legendary, I'll give them a watch now! Thanks a lot Malk
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Kirby General Discussion
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
So here's my Kirby in tournament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB7u0MswJxg . I'd like to say a few things about the video though.
1) I wasnt playing as good as I could have. I messed up with tech stuff (See the random up B during the second match) and I was using the aerial hammer more than I should have.
2) The Mario player I was up against wasnt that good. He even said so himself (he told me that he hadn't played in a while).
3) This might seem like a john, but I had been playing on Neplay for months with an Xbox controller so I wasnt exactly used to the different timing / controller.
Other than that I think I did decent. Tell me what you guys think. I've had a few people tell me before that my Kirby is pretty good, including PB&J. I've come to realize that Kirby sucks (Kirby has an almost impossible to win MU, in my opinion, against Marth.), but I still think that Kirby has a lot of untapped potential.
1) I wasnt playing as good as I could have. I messed up with tech stuff (See the random up B during the second match) and I was using the aerial hammer more than I should have.
2) The Mario player I was up against wasnt that good. He even said so himself (he told me that he hadn't played in a while).
3) This might seem like a john, but I had been playing on Neplay for months with an Xbox controller so I wasnt exactly used to the different timing / controller.
Other than that I think I did decent. Tell me what you guys think. I've had a few people tell me before that my Kirby is pretty good, including PB&J. I've come to realize that Kirby sucks (Kirby has an almost impossible to win MU, in my opinion, against Marth.), but I still think that Kirby has a lot of untapped potential.
Gold Dart
Smash Apprentice
That Mario was pretty bad XD
The first thing I notice is that your approaches are very unsafe. You did a lot of fast fall F-airs which most Marios will cc D-smash, or simply shield -> shield grab. F-air is a great approach option, but you're better off letting it auto cancel in the air instead of fast falling.
Seems like you weren't really warmed up, so it's hard to say exactly what you need to work on, but I would suggest learning how to space better and how and when to approach. Your movement could stand to improve as well.
The first thing I notice is that your approaches are very unsafe. You did a lot of fast fall F-airs which most Marios will cc D-smash, or simply shield -> shield grab. F-air is a great approach option, but you're better off letting it auto cancel in the air instead of fast falling.
Seems like you weren't really warmed up, so it's hard to say exactly what you need to work on, but I would suggest learning how to space better and how and when to approach. Your movement could stand to improve as well.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
Zzz... I got 33rd place out of 90 at a small regional/large local tournament (BAM 3: We Livin') in NorCal using all Kirby. Pretty proud of myself. Could have done better too. Scared a lot of Falco/Fox mains.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
You guys probably don't know me, but I'm a hidden boss in NorCal who mains Kirby. Trained by the legendary Lord of NorCal and his apostles. Anyways...
@
Malkasaur
First match
I notice you roll so much. It worked against this Mario because he was so bad. You seemed to have caught him with a lot of aerial hammers, but if it were any other player you would have been punished more easily. Also never use down-throw in this match up. Characters of that weight who aren't going to tech the down throw can attack you out of the throw (Mario can nair, puff can rest, peach can nair). Also when you're on the ledge stalling, work on spacing your jumps to sweet spot it. A smart Mario could easily just attack you off ledge when you can't sweet spot your ledge stalls. Kirby's edge stall isn't as solid as puffs so pretty much just try practicing fade aways from the ledge and grabbing the ledge from a kirby shoe away. 1:42 you go for the suck attack because you're ahead which causes you to give Mario a free stock without him taking damage. I do this too sometimes when I'm ahead but, you really should just focus on the neutral game. You're like putting your money on a gimmick that might not even work and throwing away the neutral. Try to work on your wd -> tilts. You seemed to get owned when you just roll inside of Mario and get wrecked. I don't understand your ground hammers because they don't look like hard reads nor are there set ups. It's safer just to go for b-air or u-air when you land up-tilts too.
Second Match
So once again, all you do is roll into Mario where you get some tilts off, but overall approach unsafely. You have this weird wavedash instaroll thing that is so iffy. Like I feel really bad for your spacing because if it were any other player, spacing would be why the match ups are so hard. Depending on some match ups 6:00ish, you can't use the neutral b for an edge guard. Not sure what you were thinking. At like 7:05ish when you get Mario off stage, you just hammer at the ledge like 3 times. It's like the worst option to edge guard. Best way to edgeguard Mario is just to grab the ledge and then b-air off of it. It's like unstoppable and makes Kirby's edgeguard vs Mario beastly.
tl;dr
Sorry Cereal Rabbit, I'll go read the whole thing now.
1) Work on your spacing. Doesn't matter if your opponent is good or not.
2) Stop rolling so much. A roll away is safer than a roll in. A wavedash back (14~20 frames) is better than a side step (22 frames, only invincible first 12 or something).
3) Grab the edge against Mario.
4) Side throw when guaranteed, besides that just up throw to rack up %.
5) Stop aerial hammering. It doesn't work on everyone. Only use it if you can ledge cancel it or you are sure you can't get punished.
6) Forward Tilt/Back Air ***** Mario. I barely saw any f-tilts.
EDIT: My good college friend Grime Reaper is going to Virginia for grad school, so you might see him at the S@X weekly. I'll let him know about the fellow Kirby main. Holla at the east.
@
Malkasaur
First match
I notice you roll so much. It worked against this Mario because he was so bad. You seemed to have caught him with a lot of aerial hammers, but if it were any other player you would have been punished more easily. Also never use down-throw in this match up. Characters of that weight who aren't going to tech the down throw can attack you out of the throw (Mario can nair, puff can rest, peach can nair). Also when you're on the ledge stalling, work on spacing your jumps to sweet spot it. A smart Mario could easily just attack you off ledge when you can't sweet spot your ledge stalls. Kirby's edge stall isn't as solid as puffs so pretty much just try practicing fade aways from the ledge and grabbing the ledge from a kirby shoe away. 1:42 you go for the suck attack because you're ahead which causes you to give Mario a free stock without him taking damage. I do this too sometimes when I'm ahead but, you really should just focus on the neutral game. You're like putting your money on a gimmick that might not even work and throwing away the neutral. Try to work on your wd -> tilts. You seemed to get owned when you just roll inside of Mario and get wrecked. I don't understand your ground hammers because they don't look like hard reads nor are there set ups. It's safer just to go for b-air or u-air when you land up-tilts too.
Second Match
So once again, all you do is roll into Mario where you get some tilts off, but overall approach unsafely. You have this weird wavedash instaroll thing that is so iffy. Like I feel really bad for your spacing because if it were any other player, spacing would be why the match ups are so hard. Depending on some match ups 6:00ish, you can't use the neutral b for an edge guard. Not sure what you were thinking. At like 7:05ish when you get Mario off stage, you just hammer at the ledge like 3 times. It's like the worst option to edge guard. Best way to edgeguard Mario is just to grab the ledge and then b-air off of it. It's like unstoppable and makes Kirby's edgeguard vs Mario beastly.
tl;dr
Sorry Cereal Rabbit, I'll go read the whole thing now.
1) Work on your spacing. Doesn't matter if your opponent is good or not.
2) Stop rolling so much. A roll away is safer than a roll in. A wavedash back (14~20 frames) is better than a side step (22 frames, only invincible first 12 or something).
3) Grab the edge against Mario.
4) Side throw when guaranteed, besides that just up throw to rack up %.
5) Stop aerial hammering. It doesn't work on everyone. Only use it if you can ledge cancel it or you are sure you can't get punished.
6) Forward Tilt/Back Air ***** Mario. I barely saw any f-tilts.
EDIT: My good college friend Grime Reaper is going to Virginia for grad school, so you might see him at the S@X weekly. I'll let him know about the fellow Kirby main. Holla at the east.
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MasterShake
Smash Lord
You can ledge cancel aerial hammer??
Triple R
Smash Lord
Yes you can, although I find lining up the arc to make it work kinda hard to line up.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
I find it easiest to ledge cancel the hammer when you run into a full hop and reverse it. You need the momentum. You want to jump a little before the platform and reverse side B a tad before the peak of your height. I've gotten it down pretty well but not reliably since camera angles can always mess me up. There are always better options. Hue hue hue
Here's a video of me doing some hammer ledge cancels. (and other stuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWOziJS80k
Ledge canceled hammers into Falco/Fox lasers.
Ledge canceled hammers into aerials.
Here's a video of me doing some hammer ledge cancels. (and other stuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWOziJS80k
Ledge canceled hammers into Falco/Fox lasers.
Ledge canceled hammers into aerials.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
Practice time.
And I take offense to that comment on the video. I do too count...
And I take offense to that comment on the video. I do too count...
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Triple R
Smash Lord
I also don't agree with the comment that Bowser is better than Kirby...
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
I don't agree with most of the things I say about Kirby. It's because I'm getting the smash world ready for 20xx Kirby.
Also I took the air hammer into the lab. Maybe I'll make a video just on ledge canceling hammers. There's like different methods, but it's possible to get it into your neutral game. Also the dash attack into grab cancel, I kinda messed around with stages with very low platforms like Pokemon/FoD and figured out stuff I liked. I also issued some set ups to new secret Kirby technology that only my lab partners know about. Thanks to the 20xx hack pack, I've figured out hit boxes and frame traps regarding the ultimate kirby 20xx play style. It's literally unstoppable once you get those legendary set ups.
Also I took the air hammer into the lab. Maybe I'll make a video just on ledge canceling hammers. There's like different methods, but it's possible to get it into your neutral game. Also the dash attack into grab cancel, I kinda messed around with stages with very low platforms like Pokemon/FoD and figured out stuff I liked. I also issued some set ups to new secret Kirby technology that only my lab partners know about. Thanks to the 20xx hack pack, I've figured out hit boxes and frame traps regarding the ultimate kirby 20xx play style. It's literally unstoppable once you get those legendary set ups.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
I like frame traps and legendary set ups.
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
Kirby frame traps? I know that Kirby's dash-attack platform grab cancel can do that with heavy characters, but I'd like to hear more about these that you've found.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Well, after a while without practice I played against M2K's Marth using Kirby. I took off a single stock. I can't even begin to describe how amazed I am. The Marth vs Kirby MU is so bad (IMO its 99-1 in Marth's favor) and yet somehow I took a stock off of the best Marth in the world, and I was out of practice. And I was thinking of abandoning Kirby...
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
Even M2K isn't safe from Kirbies, Mango once took out his Ganondorf using Kirbs. And then later in the same ironman battle, M2K pulled his Kirby out of the hat and beat Mango's Mario AND Dr. Mario.
Triple R
Smash Lord
When will you give up thinking that Marth is Kirby's worst matchup?
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yo Triple R are you actually playing melee again?
Also marth kirby is not that bad. get out of here with that "99-1" bull**** lmao.
Fox tho...
Also marth kirby is not that bad. get out of here with that "99-1" bull**** lmao.
Fox tho...
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
I'd even say Luigi's better against Kirby than Marth is.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Who said I stopped?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I forget, somebody said you were doneskis. I think VaNz said so, but it was awhile ago, so w/e.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
Yo the Marth match up is easier than most high tier match ups.
I believe it's Falcon < Marth < Shiek < Peach < Falco < Fox for high tiers.
Falcon, Marth, and Sheik match ups are very possible when you can space and crouch effectively.
I believe it's Falcon < Marth < Shiek < Peach < Falco < Fox for high tiers.
Falcon, Marth, and Sheik match ups are very possible when you can space and crouch effectively.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Yeah, I'm not surprised people might think I didn't play Melee here and there. MN hasn't always had the most visibility. Also I basically agree with Cereal Rabbit's difficulty list. I think a couple are debatable, but that's basically what it is.
Went to a store tourney on Thursday.
Gamerheadz tourney
http://twincitygamers.challonge.com/Tcgssbm5
1st of 12.
Should have vids up from it soon.
Edit:
Didn't want to double post. Went to another small store tourney. Got 1st out of 14 entrants. I was the only ranked player there. That easy store credit!
Went to a store tourney on Thursday.
Gamerheadz tourney
http://twincitygamers.challonge.com/Tcgssbm5
1st of 12.
Should have vids up from it soon.
Edit:
Didn't want to double post. Went to another small store tourney. Got 1st out of 14 entrants. I was the only ranked player there. That easy store credit!
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MasterShake
Smash Lord
Is that Rat the samus player?
I think Kirby vs samus is impossible. What do you do there?
I think Kirby vs samus is impossible. What do you do there?
Gold Dart
Smash Apprentice
Kirby Samus isn't very fun, but it's not impossible.
Space all of your attacks so that Samus can't cc D-smash. In general your best neutral game tools are F-air and B-air.You should Dash dance a lot to bait out poorly spaced N-airs.
If Samus is above you watch out for N-air and D-air.
Good edgeguarding is the key to taking stocks. It's kind of scary, but Kirby has to go out really far with B-air when edgeguarding.
I recommend back throw when you get a grab because it puts Samus in a bad position.
Stage control is very important in this MU. If Samus has stage control, you're in a very bad spot. Just be patient (very patient) and don't fall for Samus' baiting tricks. Hope this helps
Space all of your attacks so that Samus can't cc D-smash. In general your best neutral game tools are F-air and B-air.You should Dash dance a lot to bait out poorly spaced N-airs.
If Samus is above you watch out for N-air and D-air.
Good edgeguarding is the key to taking stocks. It's kind of scary, but Kirby has to go out really far with B-air when edgeguarding.
I recommend back throw when you get a grab because it puts Samus in a bad position.
Stage control is very important in this MU. If Samus has stage control, you're in a very bad spot. Just be patient (very patient) and don't fall for Samus' baiting tricks. Hope this helps
Triple R
Smash Lord
That Rat actually does play Samus. The funny thing is, it's not the one you are referring to lol. I haven't played the IL Rat in forever.
I just stick to basics in that matchup. Crouching and dtilt goes under missiles. Space things like normal. Samus never approaches from the air. If she did she would lose every time. She just uses a lot of tilts and jabs for spacing.
I wouldn't say to go a loooong way out for edgeguarding. I probably go a medium distance. I don't want a bomb trade to steal one of my jumps and not make it back.
As far as Gold Dart saying to use bthrow. I don't really huge advantage between uthrow or bthrow, unless you are by the ledge. As long as they aren't mashing out of throws, bthrow is fine.
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
Speaking of Rat, I actually went Kirby for one match against his Fox a week or two ago. Scored two stocks, and lost. Maybe it would've been closer if I succeeded in Swallowcide-canceling that game; back to the practice lab for me.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
Kirby's back throw is good.
Gold Dart
Smash Apprentice
I personally don't think that this MU is as simple as you make it sound. Kirby's D-tilt looses to her's, and it's difficult to simply out space her because of all the tools she has compared to Kirby.
As long as the opponent is above 30% back throw is pretty safe.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
Safely spacing is definitely the problem I have. It seems borderline impossible for Kirby to catch up with a samus who wavedashes back. And she also seems to have twice the range that kirby does so her nair/dair/ftilt/fsmash never trade with me. And if I go in too close so that she can't back away, I say hello to upB out of shield. I do worse against her than fox/falco. Perhaps, does anyone have any videos of them vs a samus?
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Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
I got 11th out of 40 at Get Smashed At The Foundry # 18
http://showdowngg.challonge.com/SFGameNight18
****************
Videos They Streamed
Winners Round 1
(Bye)
********
Winners Round 2
C. Rabbit/ vs Snap / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1CLqvAbrXE&index=2&list=PL5n6M_nMn9OOhIQT_Fn1g3nAXYgHQIa8N
Generally the Kirby vs Fox match up is pretty hard. I've figure that you can catch their Nair's with Fair. It's pretty lame Kirby will win most of those nair challenges. Over this match I played a tad too aggressive as Kirby. Losing discouraged me to switch over to Marth where I won the next game and got bodied by a G&W. Kirby vs G&W should've happened.
********************************************************************************
Non VideosLosers Round 1
C. Rabbit vs Glee
This is my Berkeley, CA buddy. Generally I struggle with the Falco match up, however I played against Falco's blind spot where full hop/shot hop approaches were neutralized by floating over lasers and spacing aerials. Crouching wins you free down tilts, but also you can do things out of crouch too like f-tilt, d-smash, or even f-smash after dodging lasers. You can do the same if you wavedash back a down air approached. Or if you're super pro, you can read Falco's jump distance and wavedash under the downair and back air his face.
First game we went to Battlefield. I 2 stocked Glee. Next we countered on Yoshi's, a place where I could style on. Next round!
********
Losers Round 2
C. Rabbit vs Zane
Another one of my Berkeley buddies. If you've seen my crew battle in Davis vs Berkeley, I 3 stocked this Falcon. He has definitely leveled up since our last set. The general Falcon match up is to crouch everything and then punish the stomps and falling knees. A mistake most Kirbies do is stay planted. Keep moving and crouch as much as possible as much as a paradox that sounds.
First game was Battlefield I believe where I won decisively a 2 stock. Next game Zane clutched me out on Dreamland where I pulled a comeback.
********
Losers Round 3
C. Rabbit vs Boback
The legendary Boback from NorCal. I've been watching his vidoes since the old 06 days. It was pretty fun to play a veteran. Previously we've only played friendlies once at PewPewU's house where I trained against his Falco. I played a few excellent Ice Climbers so I do have a grip of how to play the neutral. Generally they want to ice wall you and desync into a grab or a quick smash. The best thing I do is to abuse the platforms and float around. You're kind of forced too unless you're in an advantageous position in the neutral. Once it's Sopo, his/her only approach is a wavedash grab/down smash which can be solved by a very sexy dash dance/wave dash mix up. Grab punish off the dash dance, and bair when you get the opportunity. But for the most part stay grounded.
First game was obviously Battlefield. I clutched out a 2 stock with all the IC knowledge I had. Boback counter picked Yoshi's where I got busted out because of such small stage. I cp'd Dreamland with much of a repeat of game 1.
********
Losers Round 4
C. Rabbit vs Kai /
Kai's ranked 17th in NorCal, so he's no bust. But sometimes I think he is LOL. Anyways, we striked to FD where he got his butt handed to him by a Kirby. Unfortunately he clutched out the game and made a crazy come back. He switched to fox next game on Battlefield and proceeded to do Fox stuff on Kirby. I was contemplating on switching to Marth this set, but Kai would know too much about the match up.
********
11th, not bad.
http://showdowngg.challonge.com/SFGameNight18
****************
Videos They Streamed
Winners Round 1
(Bye)
********
Winners Round 2
C. Rabbit
/ vs Snap / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1CLqvAbrXE&index=2&list=PL5n6M_nMn9OOhIQT_Fn1g3nAXYgHQIa8NGenerally the Kirby vs Fox match up is pretty hard. I've figure that you can catch their Nair's with Fair. It's pretty lame Kirby will win most of those nair challenges. Over this match I played a tad too aggressive as Kirby. Losing discouraged me to switch over to Marth where I won the next game and got bodied by a G&W. Kirby vs G&W should've happened.
********************************************************************************
Non VideosLosers Round 1
C. Rabbit
vs Glee This is my Berkeley, CA buddy. Generally I struggle with the Falco match up, however I played against Falco's blind spot where full hop/shot hop approaches were neutralized by floating over lasers and spacing aerials. Crouching wins you free down tilts, but also you can do things out of crouch too like f-tilt, d-smash, or even f-smash after dodging lasers. You can do the same if you wavedash back a down air approached. Or if you're super pro, you can read Falco's jump distance and wavedash under the downair and back air his face.
First game we went to Battlefield. I 2 stocked Glee. Next we countered on Yoshi's, a place where I could style on. Next round!
********
Losers Round 2
C. Rabbit
vs Zane Another one of my Berkeley buddies. If you've seen my crew battle in Davis vs Berkeley, I 3 stocked this Falcon. He has definitely leveled up since our last set. The general Falcon match up is to crouch everything and then punish the stomps and falling knees. A mistake most Kirbies do is stay planted. Keep moving and crouch as much as possible as much as a paradox that sounds.
First game was Battlefield I believe where I won decisively a 2 stock. Next game Zane clutched me out on Dreamland where I pulled a comeback.
********
Losers Round 3
C. Rabbit
vs Boback The legendary Boback from NorCal. I've been watching his vidoes since the old 06 days. It was pretty fun to play a veteran. Previously we've only played friendlies once at PewPewU's house where I trained against his Falco. I played a few excellent Ice Climbers so I do have a grip of how to play the neutral. Generally they want to ice wall you and desync into a grab or a quick smash. The best thing I do is to abuse the platforms and float around. You're kind of forced too unless you're in an advantageous position in the neutral. Once it's Sopo, his/her only approach is a wavedash grab/down smash which can be solved by a very sexy dash dance/wave dash mix up. Grab punish off the dash dance, and bair when you get the opportunity. But for the most part stay grounded.
First game was obviously Battlefield. I clutched out a 2 stock with all the IC knowledge I had. Boback counter picked Yoshi's where I got busted out because of such small stage. I cp'd Dreamland with much of a repeat of game 1.
********
Losers Round 4
C. Rabbit
vs Kai /Kai's ranked 17th in NorCal, so he's no bust. But sometimes I think he is LOL. Anyways, we striked to FD where he got his butt handed to him by a Kirby. Unfortunately he clutched out the game and made a crazy come back. He switched to fox next game on Battlefield and proceeded to do Fox stuff on Kirby. I was contemplating on switching to Marth this set, but Kai would know too much about the match up.
********
11th, not bad.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
MasterShake, I saw Delphiki at the Foundry LOL. What're your guys names so I know who to talk to on the Sac Smash facebook page. My name's Duke if you ever see me posting there.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Yay! Videos! I'll have to watch them later today.
Now that I think about it I don't think I've asked yet, but are there any other Kirbys going to BH4? It'd be cool to play some friendlies even if it's only a few.
Now that I think about it I don't think I've asked yet, but are there any other Kirbys going to BH4? It'd be cool to play some friendlies even if it's only a few.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
I'm not going to BH4 unfortunately.
Kawaii-Kun
Smash Apprentice
I really wanted to go, but I couldn't.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Ahhhh man.... When I checked on my phone earlier today, I thought there was more than 1 video.
Yeah, I don't really expect to see any other Kirbys. To be fair this is actually my first national, and I don't really make it out to other big tournies. So I won't hold it against anyone if they aren't going to be there lol.
Yeah, I don't really expect to see any other Kirbys. To be fair this is actually my first national, and I don't really make it out to other big tournies. So I won't hold it against anyone if they aren't going to be there lol.
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Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
Maybe Genesis 3 or Pound 6. Haha
Gold Dart
Smash Apprentice
SD Melee rule number 1 is never travel anywhere, so you wont be seeing me there
@
Cereal Rabbit
Have you played a Marth by the name of Oversteps? I hear that he has a lot of Kirby MU experience 