Nashun
Smash Ace
yeah seriously how is shine not your best OoS option in the game
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Kirby General Discussion
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
Massive
Smash Champion
Hyberbole, mostly.
Wake
Smash Master
RRR got 4th at a MW tourney yesterday. He beat MDZ in pools and beat Orly and I in bracket. He also won doubles with Bluezaft. Kirby/Puff beat Kels/The Good Doctor in the finals going Fox/Sheik.
Holy **** good stuff Triple R. You beat Mat,xeb? I need to go make fun of him for this.
Wake
Smash Master
MDZ ended up beating him in loser's bracket though. But yeah.
Massive
Smash Champion
Kirby is surprisingly good in teams, especially against spacies.
Utilt sets up for numerous team combos and bair stuffs most approaches with incredibly efficacy.
Utilt sets up for numerous team combos and bair stuffs most approaches with incredibly efficacy.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Many low tiers become **** in teams.
Melee SD remix demo 1 is out!
And finally, so are the character change lists!
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/forum-196.html
Also, here's some of their work in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRNU8CHevf0
Link to the SDR thread in my sig.
And finally, so are the character change lists!
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/forum-196.html
Also, here's some of their work in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRNU8CHevf0
Link to the SDR thread in my sig.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Good thing wake is looking out for me. Otherwise you guys would have had to wait a couple days until I tell you myself. It was IMBD 5 http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=328743
Like Wake said, won doubles and got 4th in singles. I'll be sure to post videos once most of them are up.
Like Wake said, won doubles and got 4th in singles. I'll be sure to post videos once most of them are up.
BunBun
Smash Master
So is Kirby still bad?
atrociously so
BunBun
Smash Master
Excellent. Don't change, Melee.
So sup guys. I forgot about this forum.
So sup guys. I forgot about this forum.
You should try out Melee SD Remix. Kirby is still bad, but now he's significantly more interesting.
BunBun
Smash Master
Will do. Been hearing good things about it from some of the smashers here.
Also, your location is wonderful as usual.
Also, your location is wonderful as usual.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Dash attack is Wizard's Foot. Inhale has ridiculously wonky range. Those are the only two changes to SDR Kirby that matter.
Ultra late, but if you check the Kirby Finder, I use this character. I've been around Kirby's boards for a while, too.
both of those things are literally meaningless in the face of two other changes
Air hammer is 100% safe all the time and has shine knockback
Bthrow combos into Uair(and you can regrab at low %s on some characters)
Air hammer is 100% safe all the time and has shine knockback
Bthrow combos into Uair(and you can regrab at low %s on some characters)
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Still, Kirby's changes make sense (mostly), which may be why he is still bad compared to everyone else. Why the heck did they give Ness a frame 1 PSI Shine that ends naturally almost as fast as a JC'd shine? 
Whats His Face7
Smash Rookie
Hi I'm a new Kirby player and would like help getting started. All help would be very appreciated.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
You should probably go check out all the stickied threads in the Kirby sub-forum (literally ALL the threads except for that recent bottom one). There is a lot of info compiled in those threads. Are you new to Kirby or new to competitive Melee in general?
Whats His Face7
Smash Rookie
I'm new to the competitive Melee.
Massive
Smash Champion
If you're just getting started, I highly recommend picking up a different character (jigglypuff is basically the same character, except good).
Kirby is not for beginners, hell he's not even really for experts, most people have never played a kirby main because even the best Kirby players struggle to get very far in any moderate-leveled bracket.
It is true that Kirby can be played at a decently high level, but in order to get there, you have to intuitively know the game well enough that you can compensate for his tremendous handicap in almost every matchup.
Kirby is not for beginners, hell he's not even really for experts, most people have never played a kirby main because even the best Kirby players struggle to get very far in any moderate-leveled bracket.
It is true that Kirby can be played at a decently high level, but in order to get there, you have to intuitively know the game well enough that you can compensate for his tremendous handicap in almost every matchup.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
Playing Kirby is a really big challenge. He's a terrible character, so you have to be way way way better than your opponent to win. In other words, it'll be a long time before you win any games. Almost all of us who main Kirby also main another character that we use most of the time in tournament (I use Ganon).
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I've literally DEPENDED on this whenever I pulled my Kirby out. You won't believe how many high-level players I've swallowcided in the dumbest ways possible.
Other Kirbycides, too. Still, once they catch on to your bag of tricks, it's really hard to get by, especially when they get pissed off so they start playing really non-committal, and then it's left up to poor Kirby to approach. Pro-tip: FalKirby is probably the best version of Kirby possible. SHDLs are just.....dominating. He outcamps Falco with that hat on. Falco/Kirby must be a really good team.
Massive
Smash Champion
Taking falco's power is an awful situation though.
You literally can't do it without being punished if the falco knows what's going on.
Sometimes you can lose a stock just by taking the power, since he can dair you out of the swallow animation.
You literally can't do it without being punished if the falco knows what's going on.
Sometimes you can lose a stock just by taking the power, since he can dair you out of the swallow animation.
Whats His Face7
Smash Rookie
I'm back, I have been reading some of the threads (when I get the chance) and I am starting to understand these things. Is this all I really need to know?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Probably not. You'll probably learn more about using Kirby from watching his better players use him and playing around with him yourself. I got pretty okay with the char doing mostly the latter. I mean, the info on SWF is useful, but it honestly won't carry you too far.
I've always said that Kirby is at least mid-tier in teams. Anybody agree/disagree with this?
He can cover a teammate really well from interesting aerial angles and he can be a huge threat on the edge if you can gimp and mindgame properly, making opponents scared of the edge and of edgeguarding your teammate and stuff.
I think he really handles himself a lot better than some of the mid/low tiers who lose their 1v1 edge in teams.
He can cover a teammate really well from interesting aerial angles and he can be a huge threat on the edge if you can gimp and mindgame properly, making opponents scared of the edge and of edgeguarding your teammate and stuff.
I think he really handles himself a lot better than some of the mid/low tiers who lose their 1v1 edge in teams.
Nashun
Smash Ace
He's not mid-tier in teams. He doesn't control enough space.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I think he's "mid tier" in teams (whatever that means). His teammate can nullify his survivability and recovery issues and he can get some choice gimps and saves. He also has a couple really good team-oriented traits (copied specials, uthrow, etc). His major problem is that he can't run fast enough to help out his teammate if he's in trouble, and once he gets there, he kinda gets walled out easily. All of this makes any team he's on prone to being 'lamed out' once the opposing team grows weary of his BS. Kirby brings good things to the table but he also puts an extreme risk of being double-teamed on his partner, IMO.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Kirby is still underpowered in teams. Low speed vertically, below average speed horizontally, gimpable recovery, not much kill power to feed off grabs, and the list goes on.
Basically, his big selling point is that people are stupidly horrific against low crouches (since it's still 2010 to most players apparently) and he has copy gimmicks. To supplement that, he has a pretty modest ad but it's got some fair points. He really does have decent gimping on spacies if he calls something; he can bair twice and it's done. This is improved in teams since him going offstage to edgeguard is buffed, and his low recovery game vs floaties isn't complete trash; he can recover against Puff and Peach with some degree of safety in that position (jumps and SDI permitting) and floaty-spacey is a pretty common teams comp. He also doesn't really get rested by too much unless he d-throws the Puff or something stupid. Small target. Not terrible vs floaties in compressed 1v1 environments; definitely capable of playing poke-counterpoke with them there and he can generally keep pace decently with them so long as he doesn't get gimped or edgeguarded to death somewhere (which is where part of the problem is).
Suicide kills as a checkmate strat or way to swing momentum are cute daydreams but honestly his fragility vs Fox ruins that. And suicide kills are kind of a rarity vs people savvy to gimmicks since they require a setup in such a specific positioning.
Bad characters tend to be better in teams though, I think. They can have Fox, Puff, or Peach covering most of their weaknesses >_>
That's kind of a joke, kind of not.
Basically, his big selling point is that people are stupidly horrific against low crouches (since it's still 2010 to most players apparently) and he has copy gimmicks. To supplement that, he has a pretty modest ad but it's got some fair points. He really does have decent gimping on spacies if he calls something; he can bair twice and it's done. This is improved in teams since him going offstage to edgeguard is buffed, and his low recovery game vs floaties isn't complete trash; he can recover against Puff and Peach with some degree of safety in that position (jumps and SDI permitting) and floaty-spacey is a pretty common teams comp. He also doesn't really get rested by too much unless he d-throws the Puff or something stupid. Small target. Not terrible vs floaties in compressed 1v1 environments; definitely capable of playing poke-counterpoke with them there and he can generally keep pace decently with them so long as he doesn't get gimped or edgeguarded to death somewhere (which is where part of the problem is).
Suicide kills as a checkmate strat or way to swing momentum are cute daydreams but honestly his fragility vs Fox ruins that. And suicide kills are kind of a rarity vs people savvy to gimmicks since they require a setup in such a specific positioning.
Bad characters tend to be better in teams though, I think. They can have Fox, Puff, or Peach covering most of their weaknesses >_>
That's kind of a joke, kind of not.
Bones0
Smash Legend
funny, but I have a random trick that I'm not sure anybody else knows about.
If you roll to the very edge of the stage, up throw won't land on the stage and is a guaranteed stock trade (no frame cancel though as far as I know). If you wind up ahead, this might help you take an advantaged stock since you can shieldgrab or grab after sidestepping some approaches.
this kind of thing helps a lot more in teams when it's easy for their approaches to be off and your goal is to gimp/stock tank as well as covering your teammate.
If you roll to the very edge of the stage, up throw won't land on the stage and is a guaranteed stock trade (no frame cancel though as far as I know). If you wind up ahead, this might help you take an advantaged stock since you can shieldgrab or grab after sidestepping some approaches.
this kind of thing helps a lot more in teams when it's easy for their approaches to be off and your goal is to gimp/stock tank as well as covering your teammate.
Triple R
Smash Lord
I don't know if everyone knows, but I'm pretty sure most people have known this for years. You'll go off the stage if next to the ledge. Kirby can't cancel it cause he just goes down. I'm pretty sure Kirby almost always dies first though. I also think the person being through has time to jump before dying. I have yet to prove it since I don't play other characters against other Kirbys, but I'm pretty sure if you upthrow kirbycide a marth on yoshi's and they get the timing correct they can recover. If this is true, I doubt it really matters since no one knows Kirby or ever plays against him.
I'd assume every Kirby player knows this but no one plays against kirby so other players dont lol. I've used it once or twice but it rarely works more than once. Also I don't believe you can actually escape death as other characters. Their bodybox is actually lower than kirby's which means they should theoretically die first. That said I've forced draws with it so it holds true that it's a simultaneous death.
Triple R
Smash Lord
So I've been meaning to test this for months now, and this discussion has prompted me to. I've got some interesting results.
The only stage I tested massively on was Yoshi's Story since that is one I noticed some weird things on. Basically on that stage Kirby dies first against everyone except bowser. In fact, on Yoshi's Story over half the cast can jump and up and recover. I tested this and it's extremely easy to recover. For some reason Yoshi's Story has quite a few frames where people can jump. I'm not sure what about the stage causes though. Something for Magus (sp?) to look into?
My findings on other stages mostly line up with what Pink Reaper said. Some stages it ends in a sudden death and some Kirby dies first. I didn't feel like testing on all the stages, but it still seems it's character dependent.
Only exception seems like Yoshi. If you want video proof let me know, but probably be fund to test out yourself. Cheers! And don't tell anyone else! Shhhh!
The only stage I tested massively on was Yoshi's Story since that is one I noticed some weird things on. Basically on that stage Kirby dies first against everyone except bowser. In fact, on Yoshi's Story over half the cast can jump and up and recover. I tested this and it's extremely easy to recover. For some reason Yoshi's Story has quite a few frames where people can jump. I'm not sure what about the stage causes though. Something for Magus (sp?) to look into?
My findings on other stages mostly line up with what Pink Reaper said. Some stages it ends in a sudden death and some Kirby dies first. I didn't feel like testing on all the stages, but it still seems it's character dependent.
Only exception seems like Yoshi. If you want video proof let me know, but probably be fund to test out yourself. Cheers! And don't tell anyone else! Shhhh!
Vanitas
Smash Ace
Random question: How do you start the match with any character with Kirby lives?
Massive
Smash Champion
The uthrow trade thing is alright, It's pretty hard to do reliably though, I'd wager a swallow trade will leave you the victor more frequently.
Something I've been doing with kirby lately (even though I've been mostly playing bowsertuff as my lowtier guy nowadays) is chasing offstage and killing with swallow.
It is rare for someone not to FLIP THE **** OUT when you suck them in off stage, struggle, and then get spit straight down.
It works exceptionally well on captain falcon/oldmannondorf because their recovery is lulzy.
Something I've been doing with kirby lately (even though I've been mostly playing bowsertuff as my lowtier guy nowadays) is chasing offstage and killing with swallow.
It is rare for someone not to FLIP THE **** OUT when you suck them in off stage, struggle, and then get spit straight down.
It works exceptionally well on captain falcon/oldmannondorf because their recovery is lulzy.
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/character-selection-bug.223653/
Gold Dart
Smash Apprentice
I've been using offstage swallow against falcon and ganon a lot too. It works wonders when they try to sweet spot the ledge.
Something else I've been using is reverse offstage swallow against marth. No one ever sees it coming.
Something else I've been using is reverse offstage swallow against marth. No one ever sees it coming.
Triple R
Smash Lord
So did everyone just not notice the part where I said over half he cast can survive a uthrow kirbycide on Yoshi's Story? Did everyone know this already? Is no one surprised by this?
Chasing people with inhale offstage can be good in certain situations.
Against Falcon and Ganondorf just dtilt them when they try to sweetspot the ledge. Dtilt will always hit them. They can't avoid it. Sure inhale will likely get them when you get the read, but when you miss it could cost you you're stock. No need to be risky when they both are pretty easy to edgeguard.
Not sure how people usually edgeguard Marth but I'll share what I usually do. Actually first off is something I usually forget about, the death to Marth maneuver. Where you light shield and tilt towards the ledge and grab the ledge before Marth does when he upbs. Other than that I ready my dtilts. If you are low to mid percents you can basically guarantee his death by abusing crouch cancelling. You literally can keep CCing his up b hit when he tries to sweetspot and dtilt before he grabs the edge. You can take some damage by doing this, but you basically rinse and repeat until he simply gets too high of percent to make it back to the ledge. Something to mess with.
Chasing people with inhale offstage can be good in certain situations.
Against Falcon and Ganondorf just dtilt them when they try to sweetspot the ledge. Dtilt will always hit them. They can't avoid it. Sure inhale will likely get them when you get the read, but when you miss it could cost you you're stock. No need to be risky when they both are pretty easy to edgeguard.
Not sure how people usually edgeguard Marth but I'll share what I usually do. Actually first off is something I usually forget about, the death to Marth maneuver. Where you light shield and tilt towards the ledge and grab the ledge before Marth does when he upbs. Other than that I ready my dtilts. If you are low to mid percents you can basically guarantee his death by abusing crouch cancelling. You literally can keep CCing his up b hit when he tries to sweetspot and dtilt before he grabs the edge. You can take some damage by doing this, but you basically rinse and repeat until he simply gets too high of percent to make it back to the ledge. Something to mess with.