Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[Camc10]

Four FE reps is more than enough

Then we could push Roy for Dlc.

 

[CommanderRin]

I'm thinking (hoping) that her custom moves will be different than Marth's.

But we'll see, not too disappointed that she's "just" a clone, she looks lovely and I can't really see her fighting in a different style.

Her moves will look the same, but the properties will different.

Look at Roy and Marth as examples I guess.

I'll be rather upset if her custom moves aren't unique to her however.

 

[Remo]

Four FE reps is more than enough

You can never have enough Fire Emblem.

Then we could push Roy for Dlc.

I'm down with some Roy DLC.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Marth's fangirl really likes Marth, for that reason she decided to imitate Marth.

This could come as pointless but here's some trivia for you. Tiki and Lucina's Support, Lucina actually had the wrong impression of the Hero King Marth.

"The Marth of history led the liberators and smashed the power of evil dragons! He brought peace to the entire world at the edge of a sword. He must've been a fierce, unforgiving man who struck fear in friend and foe alike! How could he not have been, when he was forced to wage such a terrible war?"

When actually Marth is a kind-hearted, idealistic man who wishes for a world without war. Every man he had to kill to achieve that goal was a torture for him.

Now, how can Lucina be so spot-on his moveset if she got his personality wrong?

 

[Xafer2468]

I do believe that she is a character; it wouldn't be hyped up this much. Unfortunately, the moveset was lazily done and props to you for the marth/lucina picture comparisons. sigh, really hope they mix it up before launch.

 

[Solbliminal]

Roy was much lazier.

"Hey, guys, let's make Marth with FIRE!"

I think it's much lazier just to add an element than change how the character actually plays.

Edit: Herp a derp.

If you think Roy is just some fire charged Marth that doesn't play differently, than you have no idea what you are talking about. Begone you twit.

Edit: What?...Not sure why THAT blanked out. But whatever

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai probably only planned robin, but then IS was like 'dude lucinas so cool add her plz' and sakurai just said '**** it, slap marth on her'. Its rather unfortunate.

Probably.... ugh... Lucina is the only newcomer so far that I'm not happy with.

Yes, people hated Miis, Pac-Man, and Wii Fit Trainer because of WHO they are - read: NOT Ridley and NOT K. Rool - but at least they were unique. They weren't clones of anyone. I didn't hate Rosalina for stealing Toad's spot because she, at least, is not a clone of Peach like I feared. I don't hate Lucina because she took Chrom's spot. I am against Lucina because she is a Marth clone. I would have been against Chrom if he ended up a clone of a Fire Emblem veteran but he's part of Robin's Final Smash. I would have been fine with Lucina if she were unique like Robin is but she's not. This is bullcrap. If Sakurai really wanted a Marth clone, he might as well bring back Roy instead of making a new female Marth clone.

 

[lightdasher]

Then we could push Roy for Dlc.

Can't do that, then you'd get people saying Roy is an alt for Marth.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I'm pro-cloning so Im fine with clone Lucina over no Lucina at all.

 

[Raetah]

This could come as pointless but here's some trivia for you. Tiki and Lucina's Support, Lucina actually had the wrong impression of the Hero King Marth.

When actually Marth is a kind-hearted, idealistic man who wishes for a world without war. Every man he had to kill to achieve that goal was a torture for him.

Now, how can Lucina be so spot-on his moveset if she got his personality wrong?

Go away Roy, You are not returning to Smash Regardless, all my comment is a joke about her attempt to cosplay Marth and now being extremely simmilar to Marth.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

I still need to stand by her being a costume because seeing a clone at this point is unjustifiable. Call it denial, but that's because it is. I refuse to believe they'd make a clone after all these unique newcomers and all the effort in Brawl to decline everyone

I don't get this opinion, if she doesn't have a different picture on the character select screen then she's fine, but if she does it's not. It's not like it makes any difference in the long run.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Go away Roy, You are not returning to Smash Regardless, all my comment is a joke about her attempt to cosplay Marth and now being extremely simmilar to Marth.

Too bad, I'm here. Oh, sorry. But well, I felt that it still had to be pointed out. My apologies.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't get this opinion, if she doesn't have a different picture on the character select screen then she's fine, but if she does it's not. It's not like it makes any difference in the long run.

Agreed, I don't really get this mind set either. Regardless if you hide Lucina or Toon Link and treat them as an "alt" that still doesn't stop the fact that they have significantly different properties, hit boxes, proportions and a number of different animations to a point that they are entirely different characters instead of a simple model swap like your average Male Wii Fit Trainer or Female Villager. Significant time was still spend on them so it wouldn't really make much of a difference whether or not you show them in plain sight in the roster or hide them behind the shadows of their source character. Besides probably fooling some clone haters to make them believe that the roster is full "unique" characters despite that in reality there actually are a few clones/semi-clones hidden in the roster. And making it a bit more of a hassle for those who main these characters having to constantly toggle around every time they want to play as these characters instead of simply choosing them on the roster itself...

 

[The Real Gamer]

I also think too many people are too quick to label her as a true clone. There's still too much we don't know about her moveset to label her as such. Hell her moves could all have completely different properties that completely changes how the character plays.

Regardless is it really the end of the world if she ended up being a semi-clone? Last time I checked Luigi, Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas, and Wolf ended up being just fine despite the fact. At least her being a clone makes sense in the context of the Fire Emblem series considering she literally models herself after Marth in just about every way.

 

[staindgrey]

When did Sakurai say that he was against clones?

I won't go out and try to find the interview, but I remember before Brawl came out there was an interview with Sakurai that circulated in which he had stated his disappointment in the need to "clone" Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, etc. and that he would prefer that every character is entirely unique "this time around". (That, of course, being for Brawl.)

Also, to the OP and others, I wouldn't put too much weight behind Sakurai saying that the roster was finalized at the beginning of production. That's not a 100% truth. In game development, characters get altered or axed due to priority, time constraints or lack of cohesion with the game itself. I highly doubt that RIGHT at the beginning they said, "Okay, these are the exact __ characters we'll make, and we will not deviate from this path. Period. PERIOD."

More than likely, what he meant was that they determined exactly what characters they would be working on as playable characters, and as time went on, they gave certain ones priority over others, and some characters got axed, or transformed into a "clone" role for the sake of time. It's not like, right from the beginning, they said, "Okay, let's put Lucina in as a Marth clone. Go."

Another somewhat likely scenario is that they're using Smash 4 as advertisement for Fire Emblem, and are pushing Lucina for a specific marketing reason. Melee is the reason people in the States even started caring about Fire Emblem, so if they're planning a big followup to Awakening, perhaps they forced Lucina in later in development, much like they did with Roy in Melee.

We're all guessing at this point.

 

[Curious Villager]

I won't go out and try to find the interview, but I remember before Brawl came out there was an interview with Sakurai that circulated in which he had stated his disappointment in the need to "clone" Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, etc. and that he would prefer that every character is entirely unique "this time around". (That, of course, being for Brawl.)

Well that's certainly the first I've heard of this. A source would certainly be appreciated. Especially since we still received a few of semi clones in Brawl. Perhaps he meant that he would try to differentiate them a bit more?

 

[B!ggad]

The only reason Roy was a clone was due to time constraints, and since the roster was finalized this time around before production began, how come they decided for Lucina to share the same moveset as Marth?

Unless I misunderstood your post, you have this one big misconception: Roy was in the game BECAUSE he lends himself to be a clone. There would not have been a unique Roy or a unique Young Link (you know the list).
If Sakurai would have had the time to put 6 original characters in, he had different characters to add in mind.

I can only guess Lucina is in a similar boat. "Looks like we have some more time to do something productive, why not make quite a few people happy with Lucina as a quik Marth clone? You can kinda argue it even makes sense!"

There might not have been a question of "Lucina: original moveset or not?" but rather a "time for one minor clone, how about lucina" situation.

People hating on clones really have the wrong mindset about their existence. They do nothing but add something to the game you otherwise wouldn't have gotten.

 

[staindgrey]

Well that's certainly the first I've heard of this. A source would certainly be appreciated. Especially since we still received a few of semi clones in Brawl. Perhaps he meant that he would try to differentiate them a bit more?

Yeah. He wasn't speaking in absolutes; he was more referring to the developmental process of simply "cloning" a former moveset and throwing it onto another character late in development. Basically a longer way of saying "I didn't want to half-ass them, but I kinda had to".

I'll see if I can find it for you. I remember discussing it on AiB pre-release, so maybe I can run a forum search there to find the thread, then the link.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

She's a new character. A clone of Marth, but a new character.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Tell me what you can do unique using FE characters.
They all are in the sense the same. Sword guys, magic guys, people riding things... I've only played 3 of the games, so don't hurt me.

 

[Hong]

You need to look at when clones aren't appreciated.

1) When they are costly
2) When they are someone no one wanted.

Lucina took meagre effort to create, and she is probably the most popular Fire Emblem character if you factor in the number of people who joined in for Awakening and haven't played Path of Radiance. So yeah, they gave us Lucina because Intelligent Systems loves her, and the fans do, too. If it doesn't break their back to design the character, then go ahead.

If Lucina were to be her own fighter, then people would have a real reason to complain about the number of Fire Emblem newcomers, but since she is just a so-called clone, it's not like the rest of the roster suffers.

 

[Beatness]

I think it's probably because FE really doesn't have that much moveset potential with sword fighters.

I'm just glad her standard attacks are mostly different.

This. Frankly, I'm glad that she is a clone. The team won't have to spend as much time creating new sword moves and can instead focus on another newcomer. It fits well enough for Lucina, so I'm glad that she managed to make it in smash bros, even just as a clone.

 

[Fastblade5035]

If I had to guess, Sakurai planned the three FE:A main characters.
Robin clearly got priority, and Chrom was obviously ditched.
At this point, with time to spare, who wouldn't go 'Eh, what the heck, may as well. We've got some time.'

This is great. Hopefully Lucina will warrant higher priority next time and be further Luigi-fied. It's her first appearance, so I'm not mad at all.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

I think I would be more upset if Lucina was the only new FE character, but we got her alongside Robin who has one of the most unique looking movesets in the game so I ain't even mad.

 

[staindgrey]

@ Curious Villager : I can't find any trace of that interview, and I'm calling it quits. Either time has convinced me a false memory is true, or it's simply out there in the void of the internet and the time to find it has now officially outweighed my desire for it.

Or we were all discussing a mistranslation at the time. That's fully possible, since I found multiple articles quoting Sakurai's mandate that "every character needs to be unique", but nothing outright talking about cloned movesets. And considering this was over six years ago, it's very likely that I didn't even question that possibility back then.

Regardless, I got nothin'. Guess we should disregard my earlier posts.

 

[Blakexd9]

I would be much more excited to play Lucina if she had a unique moveset. It's a shame she's looking to be a semi-clone. Though I would be absolutely ecstatic if Sakurai gave her Marth's neutral B from Melee, it would almost make up for the rest of her being a semi-clone. I think it's likely that she started as a Marth alt, but they kept on altering and adding so many things to the point that she might as well be her own character.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely grateful she's in. As a HUGE Lucina fan, this is certainly better than nothing. I will most definitely be maining her alongside Robin and Greninj.

 

[Curious Villager]

@ Curious Villager : I can't find any trace of that interview, and I'm calling it quits. Either time has convinced me a false memory is true, or it's simply out there in the void of the internet and the time to find it has now officially outweighed my desire for it.

Or we were all discussing a mistranslation at the time. That's fully possible, since I found multiple articles quoting Sakurai's mandate that "every character needs to be unique", but nothing outright talking about cloned movesets. And considering this was over six years ago, it's very likely that I didn't even question that possibility back then.

Regardless, I got nothin'. Guess we should disregard my earlier posts.

I see. Well thanks for looking into it for me anyway.

 

[loganhogan]

We haven't fully seen her at work, she could potentially be a hybrid clone or semi clone. I believe the main attraction was Robin, while Lucina was more of a bonus due to being Intelligent System's favorite (after Tharja ).

 

[Princess Toady]

She's probably a semi-clone and not an outright one.

Like Fox and Falco.

I don't really mind since Marth's style is pretty cool, and I like Lucina as a charactern (not as much as Tharja though), so it's win-win. Clones can be as deep and different as original characters. They can be fun too.

 

[Altais]

Yeah, I was a little disappointed to learn she was a clone, but at the same time not surprised. With so little canon materials to work with, it is extremely difficult to write a solid, unique moveset from scratch. I speak from experience.

Personally, as long as they differ somehow, I do not mind clones. Clones are VERY common in fighting games--look at Street Fighter. How many characters can use that floating spin kick attack? That being said, I am never surprised at their inclusions.

Honestly, I am just overjoyed she is in the game. It could have been worse; we could have instead had Chrom as a sped-up Ike clone, Masked Lucina as an Assist Trophy, and Robin as Chrom's down special.

 

[staindgrey]

What's so wrong with clones?

I don't ask this as a Lucina fan. (I've never even played a Fire Emblem game. Couldn't care less if she's represented.) Rather, I ask this as a fighting game fan. I've played Street Fighter games since Third Strike, and they have a very large amount of "clones" based on the appearance and basic function of each character's movesets. That said, I hate playing Ryu, Sagat or Akuma, but love playing Ken and Sakura. They're all Shotos, but they play so differently that they barely resemble one another in the player's hands.

If an effective moveset like Marth's can be deviated and altered to create a similar-- but at the same time very dissimilar and differentiated-- character choice with far fewer resources taken from the finite development process than a completely new moveset would, then what's the big deal?

 

[Zzuxon]

Probably.... ugh... Lucina is the only newcomer so far that I'm not happy with.

Yes, people hated Miis, Pac-Man, and Wii Fit Trainer because of WHO they are - read: NOT Ridley and NOT K. Rool - but at least they were unique. They weren't clones of anyone. I didn't hate Rosalina for stealing Toad's spot because she, at least, is not a clone of Peach like I feared. I don't hate Lucina because she took Chrom's spot. I am against Lucina because she is a Marth clone. I would have been against Chrom if he ended up a clone of a Fire Emblem veteran but he's part of Robin's Final Smash. I would have been fine with Lucina if she were unique like Robin is but she's not. This is bullcrap. If Sakurai really wanted a Marth clone, he might as well bring back Roy instead of making a new female Marth clone.

Would it have been better, in your eyes, for Lucina not to have been on the roster at all?
Because that is the alternative.

 

[WildLink]

I don't know what you think, but none of the pictures on the website of her look like Marth's animations to me.

Forward Smash?

This shows as a fact they have a different animation here

etc..

For the first picture, that is actually her neutral B, which is identical to Marth's neutral B. You can see it better in the third picture against Zelda's new attack, where she is doing it in the air. For the second picture, her animation isn't as different as you think. Both Ike and Marth have begun falling since they reached their jump's peak, while Lucina is still rising. Marth has that same animation when he first jumps, and it can be seen several times in Marth gameplay videos. There is another screenshot in the Smash website that appears to be Lucina's dash attack, which is very similar to the start of Marth's.

 

[wafflini]

Also, her nair is actually different. Although it looks the same, it seems to have less lag, and actually seems to strike a total of 3 times in front of her rather than twice. Check this album: http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

I thought i caught that but figured i was seeing things, lol.

She has the same specials as Marth, though I would assume they have some different properties (her dancing sword and dolphin slash seemed different to me, but I'm not a big Marth player so the exact differences aren't exactly clear in my mind).

Dolphin slash looks a lot shorter to me than Marth's.

 

[extremechiton]

For the first picture, that is actually her neutral B, which is identical to Marth's neutral B. You can see it better in the third picture against Zelda's new attack, where she is doing it in the air. For the second picture, her animation isn't as different as you think. Both Ike and Marth have begun falling since they reached their jump's peak, while Lucina is still rising. Marth has that same animation when he first jumps, and it can be seen several times in Marth gameplay videos. There is another screenshot in the Smash website that appears to be Lucina's dash attack, which is very similar to the start of Marth's.

also in the reveal video, her nair, dancing blade, up air, and up special are identical to marths.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I know the 3ds version is coming out in two months, so the amount of change that can be done is a bit limited. In Lucina's case the minor changes that i feel need to be done are giving her the awakening fighting stance ( thats her trademark, sakurai, how could you err in that?) and her brand of the exalt. Honestly, with Lucina being a clone and these problems with her basic appearance, it feels like they just slapped her in the game last minute.

Well Sakurai did say that they chose the SSB4 roster before they started developing.

I think if Lucina gets any moveset changes it will be her Down B move, that is, if they have not shown it off already.

Personally, I am hoping her Smash Attacks are different.

 

[Xafer2468]

Her down b is counter, you can see it at the end of the trailer

 

[WildLink]

also in the reveal video, her nair, dancing blade, up air, and up special are identical to marths.

One last move that was shown was at the end of the reveal video, which I was hoping for no more of, Counter. When all the FE representatives run at each other, Lucina jumps into the air and gets into the counter stance. So that means all of her specials are rather similar to Marth's. And as you mentioned, she has 2 similar aerials to Marth as well and possibly a dash attack (if I'm correct). That leaves her with possibly 10 unique moves (Bair, Fair, Dair, all 3 tilts, all 3 smash attacks, jab).

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Her down b is counter, you can see it at the end of the trailer

Oh thanks, I did not notice that. I do hope that she has some moves of her own, but if not, I am fine with it.

 

[Hong]

Gods know when this footage was recorded. A lot will change, though I would only expect some touch-ups on her Wii U appearance. Since that comes out after, they can leave that for last.