Data Luigi Match-up Discussion Thread

[JigglyZelda003]

you have to be patient and get Zelda to fear your damage. Maybe try tornado into her next time? Or just go in and dash grab her to combos

 

[KuroganeHammer]

use your shield button would be a good start

then you can make a sandwich, have a shower, watch a movie, eat the sandwich you made then punish her with any move of your choice

 

[One Tilt]

use your shield button would be a good start

then you can make a sandwich, have a shower, watch a movie, eat the sandwich you made then punish her with any move of your choice

Agreed-- most campy sorts bar Villager can be 'solved' by simply waiting and fireballing. Your projectile may be reflectable, but not in such a way that it will really hit you, and you have so much less endlag on it. If she Din's fire, fireball and shield-- once they're at 200% and you've powershielded every fire whilst blindfolded, they'll probably start to realize that they're screwed and then do something even sillier, like spam dash attacks or roll towards you instead in their attempts to spam.

If they're particularly predictable, I find powershield->taunt can work wonders in ceasing their camping with such a laggy move.

 

[Yonder]

use your shield button would be a good start

then you can make a sandwich, have a shower, watch a movie, eat the sandwich you made then punish her with any move of your choice

I laughed. Shield is great against Zelda though. Sadly though, it's the only way to counter her up B. Side B is easy to avoid with spot dodges though and rolls.

Seriously. Screw her Up B in this matchup, it tends to make you slide away too so you can't punish her.

 

[TriTails]

Does Zelda's Farore's Wind pushes you away? Maybe my memory failed me a bit.

 

[Lavani]

He means the shield pushback when you block it.

Though the end lag is huge and 12% hits have minor pushback, I would be amazed for all the wrong reasons if Luigi seriously can't punish it.

 

[TriTails]

He means the shield pushback when you block it.

Though the end lag is huge and 12% hits have minor pushback, I would be amazed for all the wrong reasons if Luigi seriously can't punish it.

I do know that, I guess I didn't make my post clear enough. Yes, I mean shield pushback.

I think Zeldas I have seen hit me at 12%, so maybe that's why I didn't notice the pushback.

Where was the spot where she can kill you at ridiculously low percent again? The middle? If so, how much damage it deals?

 

[Lavani]

Grounded: 10% sweetspot, 7% sourspot
Aerial: 12% sweetspot, 8% sourspot

EDIT: I was mistaken, the damage is actually lower than I remembered.

EDIT2: never mind I actually didn't know there was a difference between air and ground for it.

 

[TriTails]

So if you get hit by the sourspot, then you'll fly like you just get smashed by a 2/3 smash attack.

If you get hit by the sweetspot, you're dead.

......Right?

 

[Lavani]

Elevator (first hit>second hit) KO percents vs Luigi: 70% sweetspot, ~130% sourspot
Grounded (reappearance hit only): 120% sweetspot, sourspot doesn't kill until super late (around 200%)

Center of FD, no rage

 

[Yonder]

Let's cover Pac Man today. Boy, this matchup is fairly annoying.

First, he'll outcamp Luigi, plain and simple. He is faster than Luigi mobility wise, so he's going to spend a lot of that time charging Keys [apples work well to gimp Luigi using a tornado too, along with hydrants]. Also, Luigi's dair spike is mostly nullified by trampoline. So in short, don't go too deep fighting offstage cause Pac Man is always prepared. Also Hydrant against Luigi on stage is a double edged sword. Due to Luigi's traction, the fire hydrant's water either sends him flying back, or if you use it right...it can send Luigi flying into Pac Man with a smash attack of your choice, U smash and D smash works great here with the extra momentum. Hydrants do block out fireballs though, and are hard to work around as Pac Man charges his projectile and pushes Luigi away. They are mostly a very infuriating tool. Tornado gets pushed back, too.

Pac Man's biggest weakness here is landing the kill, and Luigi can pull off quicker than Pac Man. Pac Man's kill moves asides from gimps are limited exclusively to Smash attacks and side B. His Smashes do have more range though, so be wary. Also, he isn't terribly hard to combo, so there's that.

This matchup is tricky due to how well Pac Man can keep Luigi away on the other side of the stage while spamming keys, and how easily he can gimp Luigi off stage. Luigi can kill earlier on stage and in the air though, and he still has his combos. Play smart, and use the hydrant to your advantage by using it to approach Pac Man.

60:40 Pac Man.

 

[TriTails]

Elevator (first hit>second hit) KO percents vs Luigi: 70% sweetspot, ~130% sourspot
Grounded (reappearance hit only): 120% sweetspot, sourspot doesn't kill until super late (around 200%)

Center of FD, no rage

Wait, I heard stories on how Zelda's Farore's Wind kills BOWSER at 40%-ish with no rage.

Okay, FW is really teleporting the logic out.

For V.S. Waka-waka Pac-Man, his Hydrant usefulness V.S. Luigi is greatly reduced onstage, IMO. Yeah, you may think of it blocking Fireballs... blocking your approaches..... pushing you away.....

Until you realize Luigi's sweetspotted B-air knocks it away in a single hit, that is.

Yeah, he Hydrants, you B-air, and get your popcorn as you watch Pac-Man running the heck away from his own Hydrant. The damage and knockback is pretty reasonable too (From what I remembered, Pac-Man is as rare as heck in FG). Though, make it quick, before Pac-Man smash attack it or the water spurts out.

And to prevent yourself from getting bashed on the skull by the Hydrant off-stage, recover high with Luigi Cyclone and air dodge everything else.

 

[hey_there]

Let's cover Pac Man today. Boy, this matchup is fairly annoying.

First, he'll outcamp Luigi, plain and simple. He is faster than Luigi mobility wise, so he's going to spend a lot of that time charging Keys [apples work well to gimp Luigi using a tornado too, along with hydrants]. Also, Luigi's dair spike is mostly nullified by trampoline. So in short, don't go too deep fighting offstage cause Pac Man is always prepared. Also Hydrant against Luigi on stage is a double edged sword. Due to Luigi's traction, the fire hydrant's water either sends him flying back, or if you use it right...it can send Luigi flying into Pac Man with a smash attack of your choice, U smash and D smash works great here with the extra momentum. Hydrants do block out fireballs though, and are hard to work around as Pac Man charges his projectile and pushes Luigi away. They are mostly a very infuriating tool. Tornado gets pushed back, too.

Pac Man's biggest weakness here is landing the kill, and Luigi can pull off quicker than Pac Man. Pac Man's kill moves asides from gimps are limited exclusively to Smash attacks and side B. His Smashes do have more range though, so be wary. Also, he isn't terribly hard to combo, so there's that.

This matchup is tricky due to how well Pac Man can keep Luigi away on the other side of the stage while spamming keys, and how easily he can gimp Luigi off stage. Luigi can kill earlier on stage and in the air though, and he still has his combos. Play smart, and use the hydrant to your advantage by using it to approach Pac Man.

60:40 Pac Man.

Pac Man is one of my most dreaded matches because of how frustrating it can get. After losing to Luigi in CQC Pac Man will run to the other side of the stage and attempt to time out Luigi with fruit, hydrants, and trampolines. And I have been timed out by more Pac Mans than I'd like to admit. I've also had trouble edge guarding Pac.

His much better mobility can make it a nightmare to chase him down on large stages, so I'd always take him to Battle field or Smashville to start instead of T&C or FD in order to force a closer ranged fight. The extra platforms also help stuff the hydrant. Lylat is also really nice because again, platforms and small stage really help.

Completely agreeing that Pac has the advantage. Maybe 60:40, maybe 55:45. I'm not entirely sure if it really is as bad as it feels or if it's just match up inexperience in the early metagame. Either way, definitely a match to aim for early KOs.

And @ Y Yonder , congrats on becoming a Mod ^_^!

 

[TriTails]

And @ Y Yonder , congrats on becoming a Mod ^_^!

Just noticed it. Congrats, Yonder!

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah Pac-Man can be frustrating to fight. He kills your momentum and slows down the game with Hydrant. It can be a very tedious fight as you try to maneuver around fruit while avoiding being pushed back from the Hydrant.

I found that using the water to do a sliding smash attack doesn't work too well against experienced Pacs. It's something they attempt themselves so when you are in between them and the Hydrant, they expect it from you as well.

The fact that Pac-Man can camp you and is faster than you is annoying too. You can't pressure up close as consistently as you would like. So that means you have to make your close up fighting count. Attacking Pac's shield is generally safe because of the slow grab. Take advantage of that.

I don't find Pac-Man too hard to gimp. Challenging side B recovery isn't too bad. You can see the path Pac-Man is going to take so all you have to do is come at it from an angle and Bair. I've even Dair'd side B once. If Pac-Man is very low, then they have to trampoline. Measure the distance they need and go out and steal the last bounce if you know they need it. Be careful because Pac-Man has a hitbox so you can't just bypass Pac-Man and go for the trampoline.

Pac-Man can easily gimp Luigi with the fruit. Best strategy here is to try to recover high then go for the ledge. Pac-Man doesn't have much of an answer if you approach the ledge from high up.

All in all, this is a long and tough match-up for Pac-Man. Hydrant and fruit are just a pain to deal with. Stay close and make your hits count. Send the Hydrant back to him if you can and follow it up for the pressure. I would give this a 55-45 Pac-man

 

[Wtfwasthat]

I have trouble against pac man. He can camp you out with hydrant and fruit and you have no choice but to approach. I find myself taking a significant amount of damage before I can get in range to attack.

 

[FalKoopa]

The Ganondorf matchup is kind of hilarious. A large body frame means he easy to hit with Tornado, he has no projectiles so fireball spam causes him to take significant damage, and Luigi missile out-prioritises Wizard's Foot.

 

[SirPulse]

sooooo, 50/50 with diddy or naw?

 

[Yonder]

sooooo, 50/50 with diddy or naw?

Not going to lie...I haven't had enough experience with it to say. But fireballs are great for gimps, bananas are ineffective here, and his d throw to up air seems difficult to land on Luigi. Diddy's range isn't that amazing like Luigi's so he has to get close up to him. Fireballs are generally more effective than peanuts, although a fully charged peanut outprioritizes tornado.

Idk. I haven't had big troubles with it, so far. Can't suggest an accurate ratio here.

 

[TriTails]

J. Miller had Leffen beaten up hard. I have seen one match where J. Miller literally grabbed almost every single bananas coming his way. Heck, people complain on bananas because it trips and give Diddy a grab chance....

I wonder how they'll react when J. Miller just grabbed the banana, throws it at Diddy and grab him. It was hillarious.

I notice J. Miller doesn't even use the Nado much, he only used it once in a match. He was all like grabs, Fireballas, and aerials..... he doesn't even used Green Missile and D-smash.... Such victory....

 

[1PokeMastr]

Not going to lie...I haven't had enough experience with it to say. But fireballs are great for gimps, bananas are ineffective here, and his d throw to up air seems difficult to land on Luigi. Diddy's range isn't that amazing like Luigi's so he has to get close up to him. Fireballs are generally more effective than peanuts, although a fully charged peanut outprioritizes tornado.

Idk. I haven't had big troubles with it, so far. Can't suggest an accurate ratio here.

Luigi will get fair'd by Diddy every time if he Di's to avoid the Uair after the d-throw, much like Luigi's throw. No matter how you di, a move will hit them.

Diddy's range > Luigi's range. I don't know where you're getting the idea Luigi has range, or enough range to combat Diddy of all characters. Diddy kong's Fair is completely safe on Luigi's block when it's spaced and it hasn't been powershielded.

Luigi can't exactly fireball freely in this matchup, the monkey flip kick will actually just plow right through the fireballs 14% > 6%, so if your fireballs are too common, you'll be kicked in the face.

Our throw combos are really only limited to one aerial in this Mu if the Diddy knows to di down + away for the throw + fair or uair (assuming we grab at low percents where he's not put in tumble) because he can uair between the double fair string.

Granted Luigi can gimp Diddy very well with Down B/ Nair if Diddy recovers low (which they should never do vs Luigi, unless they mix it up and you don't just see him going low instead of the usual high recovery which is super obvious) assuming they go for side b high up/ near the ledge of edge snap, fair/ bair/ dair all work wonders as long as he doesn't do the Diddy kick.

Diddy can also edge guard Luigi in a very similar fashion. He can wait for the down b and strike after it has finished, simply walk off Bair to intercept our up b, fair our side b assuming a misfire doesn't throw off the timing (in that case, it's luck)

Diddy has the tools to set up safe shield pressure on Luigi, the means to keep Luigi out and better options to force an approach and beat fireballs.

Diddy does lose in the up close game, but wins at keeping Luigi out (Luigi loses to camping that outclasses fireballs) while Luigi can juggle Diddy quite well. Diddy can return the favour so much better, his Uair beats Luigi's nair, or will trade with the weak hit at best it also beats our Dair and if we down b too high up, it'll whack us out of that too.

Banana can force ledge pressure, stage pressure, shield pressure and can bait air dodges (Lets face it, we've all airdodged a banana only to get hit by a Uair afterward)

There's probably more, but this Mu does seem to be in Diddy's favour. He has more reliable ways to kill, better shield pressure and can keep Luigi out with some ease.

And fireballs not being safe on hit is a big blow.

 

[TriTails]

Watching J. Miller beating Leffen makes me very conflicted.... Luigi isn't supposed to block very much. Looking at J. Miller vs Leffen, his shield rarely gets hit. Bananas gets caught, Monkey Flip gets spotdodged/rolled, Peanut Popgun gets Fireball'd. I play Luigi, and realized that shield pushes him away too much, so I just spotdodged and it works pretty well.

The main thing Luigi must do is being aggresive. That way, Diddy can't even throw a Banana. Diddy loses in close combat vs Luigi, due to Luigi's really fast attacks.

Diddy can't DI the D-throw and get away with it. F-air + B-air works if he DI towards Weegee, and D-air spike at lower percentages works too, and we can follow up with N-air, and maybe some more U-tilts + U-smash. Diddy DI-ing the D-throw is basically just asking for a more powerful combo. It's not really an option. I don't know what frame Diddy's U-air is, but D-air is pretty much a true combo.

Notice on how J. Miller doesn't let Leffen grab him very much, that is our goal. Basically, grab as much bananas as you can, spotdodge/roll his MF, and grab him. At least, that's what I have seen from Miller.

Monkey Flip Kick may plows through Fireballs, but it's punishable on whiff. And I have never heard such thing as 'Luigi's Fireballs are punishable'.... it has really low lag.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

This match up all comes down to the experience of the Luigi user. Diddy is going to play pretty much the same game against anyone. It's the Luigi player that needs to understand his options in the match.

I finally played a good Diddy yesterday and, wow, I finally see why everyone hates on him so much. If you don't know how to fight Diddy then it's game over already. You really can't shield in this match up because Diddy's gameplan is to grab. He'll hold a banana and pressure you to shield. You shield a banana, he grabs. You get hit by a banana, he grabs. Shield to watch out for banana or Fair, monkey flip grab. His options in neutral are so great and controls the pace just by holding a banana in his hand.

As Luigi, you have to learn to not shield. Keep to the air and spot dodge or roll (smartly). Fireballs kill bananas but don't spam them. Diddy's Fair goes through Fireball. Stay on him so he can't get an opportunity to have a banana. Luigi wins up close and can keep up with him fairly well. It is very important to edgeguard Diddy. A lot of ppl don't challenge his recovery but it's fairly simple to do.

This match up is pretty rough with little to no experience but once we get Diddy down it should be much easier

 

[J.Miller]

I need to correct something, anyone can DI our d-throw, it is actually dependent on DI just how much damage we can optimally get. Predictable DI is gonna get us at max either two aerials of own choice dependent on the situation or just one aerial almost guaranteed more often than not. Dependent on what aerials we hit with, we can then get even more damage but at this point I feel we are just punishing ignorance more than anything.

I refer to a game I had with Cyve, he had peculiar DI in which I didn't read correct and got nothing off of it, against Leffen you will notice that I eventually had to opt for one aerial and a retreating fireball to adjust to the fact he had realised he needed to stop taking as much damage as he was at one time.

MK can be a tool that can shut us down if we let it , the thing is we have to let Diddy's know we have valid answers to it at all times because we do. Fair, N-air, UP-B,OoS U-smash, Jab, and evasive maneuvers are usually are best bet but it depends on the situation and whether you have the composure to optimally punish these things. There were several times in which I wanted to UP-B but if it whiffs then I am basically handing a game/set to my opponent. Last thing anyone can afford to do against an opponent who is becoming aware.

Perfect shielding and being aware of how Diddy plays with Bananas is vital.
Luigi cannot afford to be impatient vs Diddy when the player is aware just powerful a banana on the ground actually is.

In this situation we either have to retreat, jab the banana to make it disappear or just wait exactly out of a range where we can deal with pressure from Diddy which will probably the following:

FF SH F-air
Dash Grab
Monkey Flip *Up to them what variant they use and will go for the one they feel is best*
Crouch walk forward D-tilt
Walk forward to push the Banana forward F-smash

This is a situation that in time we will face I am certain of it, we will need to stay patient and not crack under the pressure.

Luigi vs Diddy is a mu that is very momentum based and although we damage accumulate very well, unless there is a vital slip when it comes to Diddy it can be a task to kill a patient one.
Diddy's mobilty and airspeed will also make things difficult but not impossible, we also have jab to prevent bad grab attempts it is just important to not have tunnel vision or rush the kill... the moment we start doing this, the harder the harder the match will be for us.

There are other things I have not addressed or spoken about yet, but I felt mentioning just how powerful bananas can be for Diddy as well as us was very important.

 

[1PokeMastr]

, And I have never heard such thing as 'Luigi's Fireballs are punishable'.... it has really low lag.

If Luigi fireballs and then tries to dash in for the grab, they can hit us with an attack that is as fast as or faster than Dk's f-tilt.
If you try to dash shield but are too close to them for the shield to come up before your initial dash ends, they will hit you.

They can grab you before you grab them, even if the fireball hits them.
They can roll, spot dodge and dash away as long as they react accordingly.

Fireballs are not safe on hit, they play on the opponent freezing up and not knowing what to do.


Same thing applies for Diddy throwing his banana at your shield, if you block it, you can grab Diddy before he grabs you or you can jump and grab the banana and keep it as your own.

It plays on players not reacting properly

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

If Luigi fireballs and then tries to dash in for the grab, they can hit us with an attack that is as fast as or faster than Dk's f-tilt.
If you try to dash shield but are too close to them for the shield to come up before your initial dash ends, they will hit you.

They can grab you before you grab them, even if the fireball hits them.
They can roll, spot dodge and dash away as long as they react accordingly.

Fireballs are not safe on hit, they play on the opponent freezing up and not knowing what to do.


Same thing applies for Diddy throwing his banana at your shield, if you block it, you can grab Diddy before he grabs you or you can jump and grab the banana and keep it as your own.

It plays on players not reacting properly

I totally agree with this. When I play against people better than me, Fireball->dash grab hardly ever works. The only time it's guaranteed is if you throw the fireball in their face. Then you can grab them within the small window of hitstun. Other times I get jabbed out or Ftilted. Against lesser players Fireballs keep players in their shield so you can easily run up and grab.

Same can be said for Diddy's banana. The only difference is that if it actually hits you, he gets a guaranteed grab. But if you block it, you have options to fight the grab

 

[1PokeMastr]

Fireballs aren't safe at point blank, fireballs aren't safe on hit in any situation outside of the fireball reset

 

[hey_there]

Don't forget that you can use Luigi's low traction + Diddy's bananas for a powerful glide toss -> usmash / dsmash / grab or whatever.

 

[TriTails]

When facing against a skilled player when my Fireballs -> Dash grab doesn't work, I usually do a running Nado, because the priority is real. Not sure how well this will work, but, it's an option.

I notice Diddy cannot be F-air chaingrabbed at 0%. I had to raise his damage to 12% before I can chaingrab him, just like Fox.

Aaaannddd...... I tried this combo today, and it works pretty well. Though, while it might be able to be DI-ed, but.....

D-throw -> They DI upwards (Well, the usual. They don't want to get slapped) -> D-air spike (If they are at low perents, they can't tech this because they are not knocked back powerfully)> IMMEDIATE FF sourspot N-air -> U-tilts -> U-smash

Without DI, I racked up to 66% in Training mode. Though, I tested it at 0%, which is the percentage that it's almost impossible to grab Diddy. I don't know how long this combo can last (Or if Diddy can interrupt the U-tilts), but for general, I usually use D-air each time they DI, unless they has Mario's/Luigi's N-air. Gives Luigi a little more combo potential.

So..... do we have to grab the bananas in this MU? I think it will give Diddy a disadvantage, because he cannot secure his grabs anymore, and we now has our enemy's greatest projectile, coupled with our own Fireballs. Is this the 'Why the banana is important to both Diddy and us' J. Miller? Because we can actually guarantee a free grab when he trip from this?

Oh and also.

Spoiler

WAIT IT'S NOT OVER YET!

One point for anyone who knows where this hillarious line come from . Oh and Miller, congrats on winning BEAST V! Just thought I'd say this, even though it's late.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So..... do we have to grab the bananas in this MU? I think it will give Diddy a disadvantage, because he cannot secure his grabs anymore, and we now has our enemy's greatest projectile, coupled with our own Fireballs. Is this the 'Why the banana is important to both Diddy and us' J. Miller? Because we can actually guarantee a free grab when he trip from this?.

I wouldn't say we HAVE to grab bananas. That would be unrealistic and could cause more harm than good if we focus too much on getting a banana in hand. If we do get a banana we can harass Diddy pretty easily. We still have access to Fireballs and Cyclone which he'll have to worry about while worrying about not getting hit by his own banana.

 

[TriTails]

I wouldn't say we HAVE to grab bananas. That would be unrealistic and could cause more harm than good if we focus too much on getting a banana in hand. If we do get a banana we can harass Diddy pretty easily. We still have access to Fireballs and Cyclone which he'll have to worry about while worrying about not getting hit by his own banana.

Should have said 'as much as possible'. Yeah, we don't have to grab every bananas he throws. That'll just block our attempts at harrasing him with our speedy normals.

But I think we should grab bananas as much as possible. When we see the chance to pick up a banana on the ground, or using our skills to grab bananas he throws (Just like J. Miller did), because with bananas in our hands, BOOM! He has no more campy game (Unless I'm missing something here), no guaranteed grabs, no trips, and most importantly, he pretty much has to get out of the banana's way, possibly messing him up while doing so.

In short, we STILL has to focus on Diddy the most. But when you see the chance, grab that blasted banana up. Diddy is less threathening without it. Then throw it at him, get a successful direct hit on the ground, and..... FREE GRAB!

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

BTW...What's the easiest way to grab a thrown banana? Press A when it gets close? Or is there something more to it?

 

[hey_there]

I played a few Diddys today and I had success in crawling instead of walking when approaching for the most part. Diddy's fair spacing stopped being an issue and I could punish it reliably with JC usmash. And Monkey Flip would simply fly right past me regardless if Diddy kicked or not which let me punish it with grabs or smashes.

Whenever I'm against a Fox I always crawl to keep under his lasers at a distance, and I discovered a while back that crawling is great against Rosa and ZSS because they're so tall, but crawling against Diddy was unexpectedly useful.

Does anyone else have experience with crawling as an approaching against any other characters?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I've had success with crawling as well. There's this one Diddy I play kinda often and he's pretty good. His Fair spacing was crazy and one time even Fair'd me like 4 times across the stage. After I started using the crawl I didn't have to worry about that much anymore. His Fair goes over my head and I can get a free grab every time.

Crawling under Fox's lasers is just hilarious to me. I love doing it. Gotta be frustrating for lasering Foxes.

This tactic is still kinda new to me so I still have to get my actions out of a crawl down.

 

[TriTails]

I'm gonna try it. If this works......

Then does that mean every character that can crawl really low get an advantage over Diddy? (ZSS, Greninja, holy wow, they can just crawl really low, not Rosalina lol) Well, not neccesarily an insta-MU advantage, just a small advantage that counts. I think this could help out, thanks for the advice!

Fun fact: You can crawl under Fox's laser, but not Falco's. Don't ask me why.

Just curious, how much frame Luigi needs to crouch? He can crouch surpprisingly low, and apparently, he can crawl..... why Mario doesn't do that despite of having similiar body posture is beyond me, and that makes as much logic as how Luigi wall junps a lot in games yet he cannot in here.....

 

[hey_there]

I'm gonna try it. If this works......

Then does that mean every character that can crawl really low get an advantage over Diddy? (ZSS, Greninja, holy wow, they can just crawl really low, not Rosalina lol) Well, not neccesarily an insta-MU advantage, just a small advantage that counts. I think this could help out, thanks for the advice!

Fun fact: You can crawl under Fox's laser, but not Falco's. Don't ask me why.

Just curious, how much frame Luigi needs to crouch? He can crouch surpprisingly low, and apparently, he can crawl..... why Mario doesn't do that despite of having similiar body posture is beyond me, and that makes as much logic as how Luigi wall junps a lot in games yet he cannot in here.....

I don't think crawling makes any character have instant match up advantage, but it's certainly a positional option that Luigi can take advantage of, especially when combined with his fantastic usmash.

 

[Deleted member]

About the crawling, I crawl under the lasers but I get punished by Fox before I even do anything. He's a bit too quick for me to react I suppose.

Now, I need help on fighting against Ganondorf. I'm just so used to him being bad that when I get owned by one, I just sob. I just fear going near him because of his side special; a good Ganondorf can and will use it if they read your movements correctly (I got owned by a Ganondorf today in For Glory because of it). So, please help me. Please tell me how we can defeat Ganondorf?

 

[TriTails]

About the crawling, I crawl under the lasers but I get punished by Fox before I even do anything. He's a bit too quick for me to react I suppose.

Now, I need help on fighting against Ganondorf. I'm just so used to him being bad that when I get owned by one, I just sob. I just fear going near him because of his side special; a good Ganondorf can and will use it if they read your movements correctly (I got owned by a Ganondorf today in For Glory because of it). So, please help me. Please tell me how we can defeat Ganondorf?

Well, Fox's blaster has a lot of end lag, so you can stand up and counter his actions before he can dash to you.

About Ganon.... Lots of Fireballs. Ganon has zero answer to them. WizFoot? Stopped. Gerudo (FlaChoke)? Stopped. Then you can grab him when he clashes (Assuming he used WizFoot). Gerudo is dangerous (D-tilt all day), but it has fair amount of lag. Spotdodging may work, but not shielding. It's a command grab. Mayne try to roll next time?

And also, don't edgeguard him unless you are sure you are not going to get hit. Gerudo will Ganoncide you, and Dark Dive can stage-spike you. A solid hit will bring Ganon down, but for most part, don't eat his recovery.

 

[Yonder]

Inputting on Luigi's crawl against Fox, I think it has a lot of merit here. Check out False's matches against a Fox player, he uses crawling a LOT.

 

[FalKoopa]

Now, I need help on fighting against Ganondorf. I'm just so used to him being bad that when I get owned by one, I just sob. I just fear going near him because of his side special; a good Ganondorf can and will use it if they read your movements correctly (I got owned by a Ganondorf today in For Glory because of it). So, please help me. Please tell me how we can defeat Ganondorf?

Spam fireballs as much as you can. He has a large frame and it's easy to disrupt him that way. Same with Tornado. Green Missile also out-prioritises Wizard's Foot. Whatever you do, preferably stay a at mid range, as Ganondorf has no projectiles and his attacks don't have much range usually. Just never approach him directly. It's easier to chip at his health and then finish him off with a well paced F-Smash or whatever.