Data Luigi Match-up Discussion Thread

[Moh]

I played against some Foxes in For Glory and I can say a few things about the match-up.

Fox is a very combo heavy character and he can bait you into doing a misstep. While Fox's attacks are very quick, Luigi can easily escape his u-tilts and his jab combo with nair. Fox's falling speed helps Luigi into comboing him, giving Luigi a nice deal of set-ups and follow-ups for his down throw.

Luigi's Fireball game is slightly weakened thanks to the Reflector, but I don't think that will be too much of a deal breaker here as let's say Mr. Game & Watch's Oil Panic. Luigi's short hop aerials are particularly effective at keeping Fox at bay and spacing him out. I should also mention that Luigi can duck and crawl underneath Fox's Blaster (but only if you're crawling), meaning Luigi won't have to suffer from Blaster's chip damage.
As for Fox's recovery, it's pretty predictable and kinda gimpable. I wouldn't be too afraid to attack Fox while he is recovering with Fire Fox and Luigi can defend himself from Fox Illusion by shielding or doing a nair (depends on the situation, also be careful as Fox Illusion can spike).

However, Fox has the advantage in the air. His forward aerial is a good move that Fox mains will use after a set-up since it can easily combo Luigi and it's hard to escape. If you see Fox use his down aerial, the best option is to shield it and wait for the move to be over, but I haven't seen any Foxes use it as a follow-up move. His back aerial can reck Luigi and it's a good edge-guarding tool against him; it definitely benefits from the new ledge mechanics. As for his up aerial... yeah, it's powerful, it's good, but try to dodge it and outsmart Fox.

I will say that Fox is scary at later percents with rage, especially when his up smash benefits from it. I noticed that some Foxes like to trap you in a corner and up smash against you... I lost two matches because of that maneuver.

I don't think that Fox is one of Luigi's tougher match-ups. Hell, I beat a Fox so many times that he counter-picked to Little Mac. I think the key thing here is patience against Fox and by spamming nair. I'm dead serious about nair; it's an amazing move in this fight.
However, take this with a grain of salt; this is For Glory, after all.

Thanks for the advice, i'll try to use everything you said, and its not for glory, i asked because my cousin ( whom plays almost daily with me ) mains fox, and i just got smashed today... so i'm still trying to get used to the reads, since i just started playing seriously this game, its gonna take a while before i get used to it. I really appreciate everyone's feedback, and i'm always gonna keep checking for more. as i'm reading through the rest of the MU's :D

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for the advice, i'll try to use everything you said, and its not for glory, i asked because my cousin ( whom plays almost daily with me ) mains fox, and i just got smashed today... so i'm still trying to get used to the reads, since i just started playing seriously this game, its gonna take a while before i get used to it. I really appreciate everyone's feedback, and i'm always gonna keep checking for more. as i'm reading through the rest of the MU's :D

I'm only mentioning the grain of salt thing because For Glory is... well... For Glory. Though, it's pretty helpful in practicing some characters and learning match-ups.

No problem! It takes a lot of time and practice to get good at the game and mastering the character(s) that you play as! We'll gladly help you improve!

 

[Moh]

I'm only mentioning the grain of salt thing because For Glory is... well... For Glory. Though, it's pretty helpful in practicing some characters and learning match-ups.

No problem! It takes a lot of time and practice to get good at the game and mastering the character(s) that you play as! We'll gladly help you improve!

With that being said as well, i'd love to get some mentoring from the luigi players out there

feel free to PM me if you wanna skype and play sometime. ( idk if this isn't allowed )

 

[Gombi]

Hey could we discuss the ness match up ? My friend play it and i can barely win against him with luigi while i do pretty while with like ganon or bowswer i don't understand what i am missing

thanks

 

[Soupy]

Hey could we discuss the ness match up ? My friend play it and i can barely win against him with luigi while i do pretty while with like ganon or bowswer i don't understand what i am missing

thanks

A few things you have to watch out for:

1) Ness' n-air out of shield. This makes it hard to shield pressure a good Ness player because the hitbox on n-air is pretty crazy, making it a great option for them if Luigi approaches too often for a grab.

2) Like Luigi, Ness has a great d-throw -> fair -> fair -> up air combo. The best way to deal with this is to DI behind the Ness player. It is still almost a guaranteed up air but that's better than the fair follow up.

3) Lots of Ness players will fish for grabs at 80+ % due to back throw being a super early kill option near the edge of the stage. Abuse that.

4) Ness is extremely vulnerable off stage. If you can get one below the ledge without a jump, that's almost a guaranteed stage spike or dair spike set-up. However, if you're not feeling brave enough to challenge his PK thunder recovery, don't go for it.

5) Beware of PK fire spammers. I know several Ness players that will throw 5 PK fires at you, retreat, then throw 5 more. Run up
-> shield is always a great option against projectile spammers.

6) If you're spamming fireballs and they down b to absorb them, the end lag from that is ridiculous and it's a free grab for you if you're close enough. Bait out the down b with a fireball and then go in for a quick grab.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[FalKoopa]

The ROB boards are discussing Luigi this week, post there if you know the match-up well

Speaking of which, is this a correct analysis?

Since I play both ROB and Luigi, here are my thoughts:

Cons:

• Luigi is very dangerous up close, he has more options out of his grab, and D-throw -> Cyclone (which is a true combo on almost the entire cast) is easy to land on ROB given his large hurtbox. So, whatever you do, do not let him come close.
• He can answer Gyro's with Fireballs too, meaning Laser is necessary to disrupt him. Gyro's can stop Cyclone approaches though.
• ROB's large hurtbox is problematic because Up B becomes easier to land. (I personally avoid using it as it is too risky, imo, but something to watch out for.)
• As for Aerials, Luigi's got the upper hand, if he knows what he's doing. F-Air can combo into itself at low percents, while B-Air and N-air is are kill moves.
• Returning to the stage once you are knocked off will be a pain. His D-air is a spike, just like ROB's but without the lag and stalling properties. His huge jumps mean that he can also intercept you trying to recover high, and ROB has trouble protecting himself from attacks from below.

Pros:

• Luigi's traction is a problem which many players actually struggle with.
• Luigi also has difficulty punishing any attack on block as he gets pushed too far away to counter-attack.
• Luigi has a lower aerial speed than rob, though I'm not quite sure how much it helps ROB.

I think the match-up is in Luigi's favour, probably 60:40. Not unwinnable by any means, but you have to play carefully or you're combo meat.

 

[FalKoopa]

Oh, by the way, I think we've reached the point where we can start making weekly threads to cover the match-ups in-depth. I've also added a match-up chart to the opening post, which is quite bare at the moment. (This was long over due, to be honest.)

So vote which character you'd like to discuss this week.

 

[hey_there]

I've played a few really good ROB's and they can really keep Luigi out and gimp him pretty easily. I think his large frame and long start up aerials leave him disadvantaged but only maybe something like 55:45 Luigi. ROB isn't someone to underestimate. Something ROB should be aware of is JC glide toss -> up B/grab/dsmash/usmash is a thing, so don't be careless with the top.

 

[TriTails]

I got bodied by ROBs who spams Gyro and Lazers at poor me because I don't know the MU .

And also @ FalKoopa , I have thought about that. How about you use the almighty power of the RANDOM button in the character select screen and find out who .

If it shows the 'already discussed' character, keep trying, or just plain pick one.

It's more fun... I think.

 

[Yonder]

I thought ROB was considered a slightly bad matchup for us thanks to his gimping + amazing projectiles. i know we can wreck him hard inside but...need more experience here. He is my secondary though, and I know his hurtbox is absolutely huge, easiest character to combo for Luigi along with Ganondorf and DK in 3rd I think.

Two more random points:

- I think Samus should be 60:40 avg now that I look at it...I mean, Charge shot is THAT good against Luigi. Charges super quick, Luigi can't answer to it, and she can bait with missiles and throw Luigi away to charge it up. Fair and zair are strong secondary tools which keeps Luigi at bay too. Otherwise Luigi wrecks Samus everywhere else, but Charge Shot is literally OP here. For this reason, WFT is actually challenging thanks to her superior mobility and sun salutation. Soccer ball is effective too.

-I think we should focus on our most challenging matchups first. So I nominate Greninja, Rosalina, Villager

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of challenging match-ups, I nominate Little Mac.
I dunno how to fight him with Luigi and I get wrecked against a good one because I have no idea what to do. 99% of the time, I switch to Shulk for this fight...
That's not good.
I also thought R.O.B. was a bad match-up for Luigi as well. I kinda stand by that to be honest because his gimping is powerful against Luigi, as well as his tools to keep Luigi away. Maybe 55:45 R.O.B. from me.

For this reason, WFT is actually challenging thanks to her superior mobility and sun salutation. Soccer ball is effective too.

I haven't fought too many WFTs, but from my experience Sun Salutation and the Soccer Ball are effective at keeping Luigi away and he can't really respond to those moves. Still, Luigi has an easier time KOing WFT and I think he can easily combo her.
Maybe the match-up is 60:40 or 55:45, Luigi. I need more experience.

One more random thing I want to bring up:
I fought a pretty good Palutena recently. I just want to say that her Reflect Barrier (and the wind hitboxes of her side and down smashes) can limit Luigi's approach since it pushes him away. Autoreticle is like this, but less so because the projectiles are easily blockable.
I will say beware at higher percents; I believe she has a set-up for her long ranged, powerful up smash.
I still need to fight some more Palutenas before I can say for sure how to deal with her (I think it's in Luigi's favor, though).

 

[Soupy]

Speaking of challenging match-ups, I nominate Little Mac.
I dunno how to fight him with Luigi and I get wrecked against a good one because I have no idea what to do. 99% of the time, I switch to Shulk for this fight...

I also thought R.O.B. was a bad match-up for Luigi as well. I kinda stand by that to be honest because his gimping is powerful against Luigi, as well as his tools to keep Luigi away. Maybe 55:45 R.O.B. from me.

I fought a pretty good Palutena recently.

I can help you cover that if you want! My good friend is a vicious Little Mac and we have friendlies all the time.
ROB is also at LEAST a 55/45 in my book as well. I posted my opinions on that ROB forum thing just now.

Also, I stand by the fact that I don't think Palutena is nearly as bad as everything thinks she is. Her reflector can stop soooo many approaches, her up smash can definitely catch unwary players off guard, her f-tilt (I think??? Maybe its d-tilt) is insane, and her d-smash (is that the one where her wings hit the stage?) is honestly a pretty dang good ledge guarding option.

Can you tell how much I actually know about her moves? Hahaha.

 

[Deleted member]

I can help you cover that if you want! My good friend is a vicious Little Mac and we have friendlies all the time.
ROB is also at LEAST a 55/45 in my book as well. I posted my opinions on that ROB forum thing just now.

Also, I stand by the fact that I don't think Palutena is nearly as bad as everything thinks she is. Her reflector can stop soooo many approaches, her up smash can definitely catch unwary players off guard, her f-tilt (I think??? Maybe its d-tilt) is insane, and her d-smash (is that the one where her wings hit the stage?) is honestly a pretty dang good ledge guarding option.

Can you tell how much I actually know about her moves? Hahaha.

Anything to help a Luigi main and to know more about the match-up. I know how much trouble Little Mac can give to Luigi; I fought a good Luigi with Little Mac and I won.
I also agree with what you said about R.O.B. his projectile game is just too good in my eyes. Luigi's game is amazing up close, but that's the thing; getting up close is a battle in it of itself. Also, he has a good gimp with his Gyros... (and I hate that down throw to up air combo as much as the Hoo-Hah)

Palutena has some insane range on her moves, more specifically her side and down tilts, allowing her to space accordingly. While those attacks have insane lag that you can punish, I can see some difficulty with her and her spacing. I haven't seen that Palutena utilize her side and down smashes to edge-guard me, which is pretty strange since it can really put a damper on Luigi's day if he's helpless.

 

[Soupy]

Actually, let me go ahead and bring my friend in here for more feedback, just to make sure I'm not missing anything on the LM side of the match. (@ LCC Son-in-Law )

IMO the main thing Luigi has problems with in the Little Mac match up (and stay with me on this) is his edge guarding ability. It is INSANELY hard to get back on stage from the ledge vs a solid LM. He just has so many coverage options and with a decent amount of prediction and reaction, LM is fast enough to automatically react to what you're doing when it comes to rolling back on. Mixing up your recovery options is extremely essential. Also...

1) Watch out for LM's down tilt. It pops you in the air and combos into almost anything. This is especially scary on Halberd with the stage sinking down into the middle. LM can camp the slight incline and hit you with a pretty easy d-tilt when you try to approach. My friend caught me off guard with that one. I'm convinced Halberd is an awesome stage for LM.
2) Obviously super armor is a major problem. LM's moves come out super quick and hit super hard. Try not to challenge an f-smash/f-tilt too often unless you have a guaranteed connect on a grab.
3) Run up -> up smash is too good. My friend gets me with the sweet spot on this constantly when I'm landing (RIP Luigi's air speed) and it hits SO hard.
4) Don't feel too safe on higher ledges and platforms. Up b is a very good mix-up option for them, and I've been killed off of the top of battlefield because I got cocky on the top platform
5) A wise LM knows how to distract you, but also play keep away when he gets his KO punch. One fireball is enough to make that thing disappear, so wait it out for a few seconds and make sure you're spaced well. Don't go in head first, but don't just stand there. Try to bait out the punch, but keep your distance.
6) DO NOT constantly go for extra chops off stage. I've been caught off guard several times by getting n-air -> footstool gimped after a d-throw -> x3 fair combo off stage. I definitely learned the hard way haha.

Honestly, I think this is a pretty even match. I might even go so far as to say it's in Luigi's favor.

Fireballs are always good to approach with, because LM can't do too much about projectile game besides force you up close with speed. However, patience and reaction are key with them, as going in head strong will just result in being thrown off stage constantly.

Keep in mind that if you DO throw them off stage and they shoot for an up-b recovery below the stage, it can be hard to sweet spot and it sometimes leaves them open for a multitude of things, including (but not limited to) a d-tilt, d-smash, or even a taunt spike if you want to be stylish. However, it's not the easiest thing to pull off due to the hitbox on his up-b. I've also occasionally gotten jab -> grab out of it.

Grounded 'nado is, as always, a good mix-up option for us. It's hard to deal with and not many things beat it.

I have not tested whether d-throw -> x2 fair -> fast fall (maybe n-air) -> x4-5 up tilt works against LM, but due to weight and fall speed, I'm pretty sure it would. If so, this would be very good to quickly get in % range for any variety of kill moves.

I also think that LM is fairly easy to hit with the d-throw -> up b combo due to his lack of aerial mobility.

EDIT: I forgot the summary. Oops.

Summary: While LM has an amazing ground game, tons of move priority, and quite a lot of options near the edge, I believe that they come out pretty even. LM can't do much in terms of getting out of throw combos on stage. He also has trouble approaching against fireballs, and resorts to a lot of shielding which is easy to follow up with a grab if spaced right. As long as you don't get cocky, I'd say this match comes out to 50/50, or possibly even 55/45.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything! Let me know if there are any particular things you have trouble with in the match-up that I didn't cover.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Actually, let me go ahead and bring my friend in here for more feedback, just to make sure I'm not missing anything on the LM side of the match. (@ LCC Son-in-Law )

IMO the main thing Luigi has problems with in the Little Mac match up (and stay with me on this) is his edge guarding ability. It is INSANELY hard to get back on stage from the ledge vs a solid LM. He just has so many coverage options and with a decent amount of prediction and reaction, LM is fast enough to automatically react to what you're doing when it comes to rolling back on. Mixing up your recovery options is extremely essential. Also...

1) Watch out for LM's down tilt. It pops you in the air and combos into almost anything. This is especially scary on Halberd with the stage sinking down into the middle. LM can camp the slight incline and hit you with a pretty easy d-tilt when you try to approach. My friend caught me off guard with that one. I'm convinced Halberd is an awesome stage for LM.
2) Obviously super armor is a major problem. LM's moves come out super quick and hit super hard. Try not to challenge an f-smash/f-tilt too often unless you have a guaranteed connect on a grab.
3) Run up -> up smash is too good. My friend gets me with the sweet spot on this constantly when I'm landing (RIP Luigi's air speed) and it hits SO hard.
4) Don't feel too safe on higher ledges and platforms. Up b is a very good mix-up option for them, and I've been killed off of the top of battlefield because I got cocky on the top platform
5) A wise LM knows how to distract you, but also play keep away when he gets his KO punch. One fireball is enough to make that thing disappear, so wait it out for a few seconds and make sure you're spaced well. Don't go in head first, but don't just stand there. Try to bait out the punch, but keep your distance.
6) DO NOT constantly go for extra chops off stage. I've been caught off guard several times by getting n-air -> footstool gimped after a d-throw -> x3 fair combo off stage. I definitely learned the hard way haha.

Honestly, I think this is a pretty even match. I might even go so far as to say it's in Luigi's favor.

Fireballs are always good to approach with, because LM can't do too much about projectile game besides force you up close with speed. However, patience and reaction are key with them, as going in head strong will just result in being thrown off stage constantly.

Keep in mind that if you DO throw them off stage and they shoot for an up-b recovery below the stage, it can be hard to sweet spot and it sometimes leaves them open for a multitude of things, including (but not limited to) a d-tilt, d-smash, or even a taunt spike if you want to be stylish. However, it's not the easiest thing to pull off due to the hitbox on his up-b. I've also occasionally gotten jab -> grab out of it.

Grounded 'nado is, as always, a good mix-up option for us. It's hard to deal with and not many things beat it.

I have not tested whether d-throw -> x2 fair -> fast fall (maybe n-air) -> x4-5 up tilt works against LM, but due to weight and fall speed, I'm pretty sure it would. If so, this would be very good to quickly get in % range for any variety of kill moves.

I also think that LM is fairly easy to hit with the d-throw -> up b combo due to his lack of aerial mobility.

EDIT: I forgot the summary. Oops.

Summary: While LM has an amazing ground game, tons of move priority, and quite a lot of options near the edge, I believe that they come out pretty even. LM can't do much in terms of getting out of throw combos on stage. He also has trouble approaching against fireballs, and resorts to a lot of shielding which is easy to follow up with a grab if spaced right. As long as you don't get cocky, I'd say this match comes out to 50/50, or possibly even 55/45.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything! Let me know if there are any particular things you have trouble with in the match-up that I didn't cover.

Soupy covered most of what I've learned from this matchup, but there are a few things I'd like to add.

If you go for a Fireball>grab, beware that if times correctly LM's Ftilt can cancel it with the first hit and hit you with the second if you approach too quickly. I can also TAKE the hit and Ftilt out of it, stopping your approach, but this may be dependent on Timing/Spacing. I might try testing this out more.
Also, don't forget that LM can also cancel fireballs with Jab. However, it's a little more difficult to pull off for us. If we just hold jab and hit the fireball, it will put us into our Jab2 animation, but because we have nothing else to hit (and no, a second fireball wont reach in time) it resets us into the Jab1 animation. The transition time from Jab 2>Jab 1 has enough lag for you to run in and grab or dash attack. I've been caught by both of these before in this way, but the specific timing is unknown to me.
Don't forget to watch for smash attacks through fireballs. Basically, don't rush in too fast after a fireball. Wait and see how they react.

Ik that it is very possible for me to air dodge out of the Dthrow>UpB combo, and I'm not sure if there is a % I cannot air dodge out. I would be careful with this, as missing it can leave you extremely open for any of LM's smash attacks or even his UpB. However, if you can read the air dodge and punish them for it, that might be useful.

I think that's about all I have atm. I'll post anymore info I find.

 

[TriTails]

My experience against Lvl 9 Luigi.
LM holds A.
Luigi drools for a bit before U-smashing me with his invincible head.

LM's jab hold is definitely answerable.

Oh, and F-tilt, dang, F-BLEEPING TILT! Comes out at F4, KOs quite early, hits twice, has good range (Not as much as 1.0.3. though), and has little lag. Though... Can Cyclone (Or U-smash) beat it? And maybe jab too? And how about his D-tilt!? U-tilt!? Rising Uppercut!? DASH ATTACK!?

"What is this? Twenty questions?" - Magnus

I don't think any of Luigi's combos are airdodge-able. SJP comes out at F8, and the hitstun of D-throw should suffice. Get a grab on LM though, we can D-throw -> Double chop -> DA to instantly get him off-stage most of the time (It works right? Pretty sure I did it somewhere). The rest is easy. Unless he can pull out a bleeping F1 jab.

BTW for the weekly MUs, I nominate DHD, Rosalina, Diddy, Sheik, and Pit/Pittoo.

 

[FalKoopa]

I thought ROB was considered a slightly bad matchup for us thanks to his gimping + amazing projectiles. i know we can wreck him hard inside but...need more experience here. He is my secondary though, and I know his hurtbox is absolutely huge, easiest character to combo for Luigi along with Ganondorf and DK in 3rd I think.

I guess I'm better with Luigi compared to ROB, that may have skewed my perception, haha.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I nominate DDD and Greninja for weekly discussion

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello Weegie mains, we've started our weekly discussions at the Fox boards, with vs as one of our matchups for this week.

You may find the link to the thread here. We look forward to hearing all about your high soaring jumps and ghost-vacuum skills on how the match up plays out.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

The problem I see for luigi against mac is the fact that mac smashes are safe on shield because luigi still has shield pushback while most other characters don't suffer from that. Even ftilt can be safe at times from what I've found if spaced correctly.

 

[BSP]

6) If you're spamming fireballs and they down b to absorb them, the end lag from that is ridiculous and it's a free grab for you if you're close enough. Bait out the down b with a fireball and then go in for a quick grab.

When Ness absorbs something with PSI Magnet, he can do any option he could do out of shield. He can roll, jump, sidestep, jump -> aerial, whatever. Fox is the same way with his reflector, so be careful about trying to bait their move by actually throwing the projectile.

 

[Soupy]

When Ness absorbs something with PSI Magnet, he can do any option he could do out of shield. He can roll, jump, sidestep, jump -> aerial, whatever. Fox is the same way with his reflector, so be careful about trying to bait their move by actually throwing the projectile.

Of course, it's not something that should be overused. After doing it once or twice, they can use it to their own advantage as some sort of bait. That goes for almost any character with a move that's being capitalized on.

 

[Douchuumen]

Yo Weegee boards

Outside of the top 2, which characters would you say do well against Luigi? Olimar? Pikachu? Yoshi? Sonic?

I feel like the majority of the cast struggle with the king of second bananas.

 

[hey_there]

Yo Weegee boards

Outside of the top 2, which characters would you say do well against Luigi? Olimar? Pikachu? Yoshi? Sonic?

I feel like the majority of the cast struggle with the king of second bananas.

In my opinion, at least Villager, Pac-Man, Mega Man. Greninja is apparently a bad match up, but I haven't played a good one so I'm not sure. I've been crushed by Jiggs which is supposed to be a bad match up as well, but that may have just been my personal inexperience so take that with a grain of salt. Sonic might have a slight advantage, but might not.

Anyway, it's a bit too early to really confirm horrible match ups for Luigi, but these ones are at least fairly annoying for me personally.

 

[Deleted member]

In my opinion, at least Villager, Pac-Man, Mega Man. Greninja is apparently a bad match up, but I haven't played a good one so I'm not sure. I've been crushed by Jiggs which is supposed to be a bad match up as well, but that may have just been my personal inexperience so take that with a grain of salt. Sonic might have a slight advantage, but might not.

Anyway, it's a bit too early to really confirm horrible match ups for Luigi, but these ones are at least fairly annoying for me personally.

From recent experience, Mega Man has given me some trouble.
I just got tricked and out-spaced by Mega Man. A good Mega Man knows how to effectively use the Mega Buster and his neutral and side specials. Hell, I've seen the Mega Man use Rush Coil. I was close to beating the Mega Man, but I just couldn't really win.
I've seen this Mega Man go with the Mega Buster to grab, to Metal Blade, to even Charge Shot. His dash attack is also something to worry about as it's hard for Luigi to react to and punish efficiently.
I think you can use the Luigi Cyclone to cancel out the Mega Buster; I did that and it seemed to work.
So far, I think it's 55:45 Mega Man.

I'm surprised no one has brought up Mr. Game & Watch. That match-up can be brutal for Luigi. Probably 60:40 Mr. Game & Watch with his off-stage game and the fact that Fireballs are damn near useless here with Oil Panic.

 

[SirJuicius]

I'm not too concerned about facing Villager, to be honest. To an extent, Villager can be a hassle because of his/her fair and side special and potentially gimping you. But for the most part, Villager needs to get up close to deliver a KO and his/her moves aren't exactly super fast. The tilt moves he/she has however are good ones. F-tilt has a respectable range, d-tilt can trip opponents and to be honest, I'm not too sure how useful u-tilt is.

Mega Man however does concern me. He simply out-projectiles Luigi. He's got lemons, the metal blade and the crash bomb, which can force Luigi to commit to the air, where Mega Man's uair, fair and bair can remove the threat of Luigi attacking in the air. Getting close to Mega Man is difficult because he has wonderful options to halt Luigi in his path.

Greninja is a nightmare for me. His attack speed and air speed are just overwhelming and he can apply a ton of pressure on Luigi. Not only that, but Greninja's smash attacks have good range and when charged (even slightly), it can send Luigi flying.

I'm not too sure what I truly think about G&W. Yes, the bucket/Oil Panic negates Luigi's fireballs, but I think outside of that, Luigi matches up evenly against G&W, mostly because G&W is basically glass in this game. He gets KO'd fairly early, so having the string that Luigi does (d-throw, fair, fair, ...) helps him out a lot. Generally I feel like G&W can leave himself open on whiffed attacks. With that said, I think we should respect G&W because despite being made out of glass, he still has respectable attacks. F-smash and U-smash are very solid attacks, as are his air attacks. With G&W's short grab range, Luigi can shield the air attacks without having to worry about being grabbed.

 

[Douchuumen]

Thanks for your help guys.

Anyone have experience against Olimar? That's a matchup that interests me. The only time I've seen it was Boss vs. Logic at Xanadu, but I don't think that's a true reflection of the matchup.

 

[SirJuicius]

Thanks for your help guys.

Anyone have experience against Olimar? That's a matchup that interests me. The only time I've seen it was Boss vs. Logic at Xanadu, but I don't think that's a true reflection of the matchup.

Well, I can't give MU numbers because it's rare that I find someone who plays as Olimar/Alph. However, from my experience, Olimar is kind of easy. A good portion of his gimmick (throwing Pikmin) can be negated by Luigi's attacks. For instance, say Olimar throws a Pikmin that's not purple at you and it latches onto you. You can just use a fair or two and it'll kill the Pikmin. Once Olimar is down to one Pikmin, it becomes real easy to do some damage, and since he's a lightweight, they will be KO'd fairly early.

With that said however, Olimar is no slouch. While he is weak in regards of durability, he is strong offensively. If you do get Pikmin to latch onto you, don't wait to get them off. Do it then and there so you don't have to worry about them. The key for Olimar is to have the Pikmin accumulate damage upon the opponent.

 

[FalKoopa]

Since the Rosalina thread hasn't received any more replies, The Greninja Match-up thread is up.

 

[Deleted member]

I have fought a Jigglypuff main and I think I have a general idea of this match-up.

Jigglypuff has two weaknesses that we need to exploit: her defenses and her light weight.
Jigglypuff is more of an offensive character than a defensive one. She is absolutely dominant in the air thanks to her superior air speed and her aerials. What we need to do is try to shield her pressure and pressure ourselves. I like to use aerials in this fight since they seem to be pretty effective here. Jigglypuff doesn't have too many follow-up options and she can't shield too much; Jigglypuff is done if her shield is broken. However, don't use the short-hop aerial approach too much as it will become heavily predictable; still try to mix it up with Luigi Cyclones and space her out with Fireballs. Use the Fireballs, especially aerial Fireballs, to force Jigglypuff to approach to us.
Her light weight is also a weakness of hers that we need to exploit. She is a very light weight character, perhaps the lightest on the roster. I am not saying "Go and use every strong attack we have", but we need to show some superiority and dominance in the air as well. I sense that top screen Luigi Cyclone kills are very effective here as Jigglypuff tends to die much earlier than the rest of the cast.
During my fights, I did not attempt to go for dash grabs for down throw combos too much. I didn't see the point of doing so as she will mostly be in the air.

However, Jigglypuff has clear advantages over us. First off, our own defenses can be pretty weak. By adding shield pressure to us, we can't react to her as easily thanks to our poor traction. Pound is also an excellent move for Jigglypuff as she can shield break us and then go for a Rest. Second, her aerials are far superior to our own; her aerials are kill moves, we kinda have trouble in this department unless we go for some nairs, bairs, and Luigi Cyclones to finish her off, but we really shouldn't be spamming these moves to finish her off. Third, approaching Jigglypuff is going to be hard if she has more room; she excels in places with high ceilings and more platforms. Battlefield, what is normally a good stage for us, is not a good stage against Jigglypuff as she has more room to fight and attack us with aerials; we could be on one platform, she can attack with a few aerials, and then we are screwed if we get Pounded. I recommend Final Destination and Omegas as this limits her room and we have room to approach and Halberd as the low ceilings can kill her early. Lastly, her off stage game is easily superior since she can gimp our recovery and her recovery is pretty damn amazing; I got stage spiked from one of my fights.

Overall, this is by far a pretty tough fight for Luigi. We need to add our own pressure against her if we want to succeed, but not too much to the point where we become predictable.
I say this match-up is 55:45 if not 60:40 Jigglypuff. I'm leaning more towards 55:45 as we have our own tools to take care of her and exploit her weaknesses, but she has some overwhelming strengths that she can use to exploit our own weaknesses.

 

[FalKoopa]

So the consensus on the Greninja match-up was 40:60 in Greninja's favour.

Anyway, the Diddy Match up thread is up.

 

[PXL]

Any help with villager mu?

 

[SirJuicius]

Any help with villager mu?

I faced a lot of Villager yesterday.

I like this matchup for Luigi. The one thing Villager has over Luigi is the arsenal of projectiles, including pocket. But proper defensive maneuvers can make the projectiles a non-threat. Usually Villager will launch a lloid and follow it up with the slingshot nair or the dash attack. Villager's tilts are above average. F-tilt does a good job covering Villager, while d-tilt can trip up opponents. I don't know the benefits of u-tilt. It may help Villager land a quick u-air. Whatever you do, don't approach Villager straight on. They'll evade and get a free projectile attack in.

I find Luigi's air attacks to be very resourceful in this MU. Villager's airspeed and fast fall speed are slightly faster than Luigi's, but Luigi has better priority in his air attacks. In other words, Villager is prone to attacks in the air and should be kept up there for as long as you can.

Even though Villager has pocket, I don't have a problem with throwing a fireball out there for the sake of providing a decoy and making Villager players believe that by pocketing my fireball that it cripples my strategy. When you fire the fireball, go forward and go for a short hop, fast fall nair, and make sure you make the nair happen above Villager. Most will shield the attack, see that they didn't get hit, unshield and then try to do something. The lateness of the nair will provide weak knockback and allow you to get in some jabs. If you go all the way through your jab combo, immediately execute the dash attack.

Going back to the projectiles Villager has... be sure to try and keep the fight closer to the center of the stage. Luigi's recovery gets gimped to a bloody pulp by Villager's projectiles.

I'd say that Villager's full of hot air, courtesy of the balloons... The matchup is 60: 40

 

[Ffamran]

As the kings of second bananas, we've still got our pride. Join the ongoing Luigi matchup discussion the Falco boards started: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-22-luigi-wingmen.396530/.

And if you want to play some Falco for fun or for the MU experience, then check out this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/. Have fun, all.

 

[FalKoopa]

Say, do you people want to do two match-ups per week? Given that the threads don't even get 10 replies, we can speed up things.

 

[Deleted member]

Say, do you people want to do two match-ups per week? Given that the threads don't even get 10 replies, we can speed up things.

I'm OK with that!

 

[PXL]

Match-up List​

To search for a particular character, press 'Ctrl+F' and type the name.

VS. Mario

Spoiler

VS. Bowser


VS. Rosalina

VS. Donkey Kong

VS. Diddy Kong

Spoiler

VS. Sheik

Spoiler

VS. Ganondorf

Spoiler

VS. Samus

VS. Zero Suit Samus

VS. Marth/Lucina

VS Robin

Spoiler

now I'm pondering at my other main as a matchup: Robin. Fireballs are certainly massively useful for their cutting through those projectiles, bar Thoron (even arcfire can be covered with shorthopped fireballs), but Robin's aerials quite consistently hurt like hell, and Robin's tilts feel to be less punishable than Marth's. I think there's more risk in the air in general, but that the angles are very similar (as Robin's aerials hit from much the same distance and even some of the same hitbox placements). That said, I feel like Robin has an even easier time gimping, given those more consistent spikes, arcfire and thunder pokes, Elwind spiking, and Nair pokes that hit at that crazy horizontal angle.

Rolling against Robin should generally be avoided, as it lets them take advantage of their spacing tools a bit too well-- if you can keep arcfire and arcthunder under control with fireballs, shielding becomes an incredibly safe option, as Robin's grab range is extremely limited, a la Little Mac. This, of course, makes Robin highly vulnerable to our usual grab comboing, and their recovery also rather feels to be quite vulnerable to our Dair... or even Dtaunt, given that there are absolutely no hitboxes above, it moves slowly and predictably, and it doesn't sweetspot if poorly spaced. A poorly timed approach will have Robin easily batting you away with an Ftilt, and Robin's neutral game is rather excellent, but Robin has little defense against juggling save for B-reverses or a well-placed Bair. Both can gimp each other, and both can kill moderately early, but Luigi has the easier time of both, while his core mechanics of comboing are largely unhindered by Robin's kit, given that fireballs keep Robin from maintaining much of a campy game.

I'd say the matchup feels comparable to Marth, in any case-- which is the feeling that had me inclined to bring Robin up whilst on the subject of swords. Particularly since Marth, Link, and Shulk have all been discussed at this point... I suppose Ike makes for a decent springboard from there, but I honestly feel like he's about the same as Robin-- easily comboed, can kill early, hates fireballs, disjointed hitboxes and good aerial spacing...

VS. King Dedede

VS. Meta Knight

VS. Little Mac

VS. Fox


VS. Greninja

VS. R.O.B.

VS. Ness


VS. Capt. Falcon

VS. Villager

Spoiler

VS. Shulk

Spoiler

VS. Mega Man

VS. Pac-Man

 

[FalKoopa]

The Capt. Falcon and Sheik threads are up.

 

[hey_there]

I wonder how the balance patch is going to affect match ups. It might make all of this discussions irrelevant.

 

[TriTails]

I wonder how the balance patch is going to affect match ups. It might make all of this discussions irrelevant.

Balance patch? Where?

*Hopes for D-tilt end lag decreased and F-air is not basically airdodge landing lag when landing*