Mario Discussion: OP is a bad person

[sharksquail]

What do people think of trying to edgeguard with Mario's down-b tornado? It's got some funky hitboxes, and nailing it from above with some good timing can result in a spike. I've been trying to do it every so often but it seems to be pretty inconsistent.

I don't think it's a great idea for competitive play, but it's tons of fun to try in friendlies. super satisfying when you get it.

also i know that the other player can DI out of it, but can you follow their DI to stay over them with your DI ( not sure if that makes sense)?

 

[Surri-Sama]

edge guarding with Marios downB would be completely for style points

much like Falcons reverse Dtilt edge guard...which is prob my fav of all time~

 

[th3kuzinator]

Edgeguarding a recovering dk with Mario's downb works wonders. I am not even talking about the spike at the end, if you just let mario fall through him and let him get ejected from either side he gets thrown on a lower plane of recovery. This combined with his upb's terrible vertical distance usually seals the deal. I mean, his dair does the same thing, but downb works just as well and probably annoys the opponent more.

The same thing applies to using fox's dair (as a surprisingly effective edgeguard strategy).

 

[Surri-Sama]

Surprisingly effective, but of course not more effective then an easier...Dsmash so to say?

I wouldn't go about using foxs dair as an edge guard too often either lol...

 

[th3kuzinator]

Dair vs DK's upb? Those arms...not as consistent from anything done from above

And Fox's dair works very well surprisingly

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Every attack from above against DK's UpB is effective, but Mario's DownB, seem kind of risky imo.

 

[ciaza]

One of its cons is because if you get hit by DK's up B and fly away from the stage you lose the ability to use Down B to recover which can sometimes be essential. Also instinctively you can attempt to Down B again and as a result take a one-way trip to no-man's land fast.

I would say Dair>DSmash for edge guarding thouse as I've had Dk's invincibility frames jew out my Dsmash.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah, downb is just flashy compared to dair I guess. Hilarious when it works. Still better than dsmash, imo, if they have room to sweetspot.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Usmash edgegaurding: Thoughts?

i can see it working well in some situations, and it can kill.

also, saske has some really peculiar but effective edgegaurd tactics...

 

[asianaussie]

Works well when they're at high percents and trying to recover high (Falcon or DK feinting towards the stage, etc).

Recettear for life.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Updates, Ho!

 

[asianaussie]

Yayifications!

There isn't actually anything to yayificate about.

Nobody plays Mario much :|

 

[th3kuzinator]

I do, actually.

Don't really know what to discuss, though.

 

[CyberMario]

I play Mario too.

I have a video of the Mario Tornado Spike in a friendly here => http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=115785878503701 Yeah. It's really satisfying.

Question: You use fireballs for approach the opponent jumps over them and is approaching you at a angle. What is the best general offence/defense?

I've considered:
Usmash, but it's very risky if I just so happen to miss...
Upb, not the best damage causing attack. Especially because of that dangerous landinglag.

Any Ideas?

 

[ciaza]

lol @ linking to a Facebook video. We can't see it because it's private, so right-click on the video and select "watch on youtube", then copy that URL for us =P.

At your question: don't bait Usmash. Don't UpB either for reasons you mentioned.

Considering your situation maybe a simple pivot dair>uair.

 

[CyberMario]

lol @ linking to a Facebook video. We can't see it because it's private, so right-click on the video and select "watch on youtube", then copy that URL for us =P.

At your question: don't bait Usmash. Don't UpB either for reasons you mentioned.

Considering your situation maybe a simple pivot dair>uair.

Gah... I'm gonna have to make a youtube channel.

Well here ya go. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO6PV53CB0w

Hmmm... I haven't practiced pivoting at all... Any other recommendations?

 

[ciaza]

If you haven't practiced I would really recommend to, it's use in a match is invaluable. In your situation you'll be avoiding his approach and setting yourself up perfectly for a counter attack.

 

[Limaçon]

What are some good approaches on fox? It might just be that my approaches are way too obvious, but even against foxes of equal or lower skill it always seems that any approach I do is upsmash fodder (or forward smash, but that is at least punishable).

Also, what are the main options out of a dair? I can do the dair>grab and dair>upsmash, and I am working on dair>uair>x, but I remember seeing fancier options in videos (though I can't find any examples right now).

 

[DMoogle]

D-air -> n-air is an option. It's a lot more useful with Luigi, but I think it comes out faster than u-air and it's safer than u-air because it's not a disaster if you miss the z-cancel. Just be prepared to tech-chase.
D-air -> u-tilt works at mid percents, then you can start u-air chains. Very punishable if you don't time it right though and your opponent shields it.
D-air -> d-air for low percent offstage gimping.

 

[asianaussie]

Can't count the number of times I've D-Tilted accidentally and then thought 'eh that works'.

 

[tyhiggz]

I saw a mario in a video (Isai, I believe) end a combo on hyrule with a coin jump on jigglypuff for the kill.

Could this be done on the whole cast?

I tried it briefly in training mode and couldn't manage to do it on anyone but jiggly; however, on the ground, it appears that the coin jump affects everyone pretty similarly.

Also, would the (what appears to me to be) set knock-back on the coin jump make this a viable (and not just flashy) choice?

I was thinking this could be a real option if the u-smash isn't set up properly and if carrying on with u-airs doesn't finish it, then tacking on a coin jump could do the trick.

Lastly, could this combo be done anywhere other than hyrule? (perhaps zebes?)

 

[Battlecow]

The Coin jump doesn't have set KB at the end, so I'd imagine that with enough % you could do it on anyone. That said, it would only be "practical" on jiggs- and even then, not so much.

 

[Limaçon]

I have seen it KO at height from an u-air chain off the platforms on Hyrule (I can't think of the video though), that might be "useful" but it still seems way too situational.

[EDIT]: I reread your post and I think we are talking about the same video. In that case then I would just say it is too situational to consider a good option. It would be good for a flashy kill, but I can't imagine it being worthwhile trying to get someone in the situation to start it.

 

[Battlecow]

Let's put it this way: It might be practical for Isai, but that doesn't mean you should try to learn it.

 

[The Star King]

It wasn't Isai. It was in the Prince combo video. First Mario combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qDMkD7UY8g

Smash64 community with dat usual bad memory for videos

 

[clubbadubba]

Isai's Mario on Link, mushroom kingdom ring any bells? He finishes off the side of the screen w upb.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MevseC#p/search/45/JWmw7FOf-n8

Very simple combo, easy to set up (I kid of course).

I would say the up-b finish is only a finisher if you get someone all the way up to the top of hyrule with uairs. I did it to falcon on console against a guy that can't play though, so yea its do-able.

 

[tyhiggz]

It could have very well been that prince video. Either way, I'll just leave it as a rare flashy finish on jiggly, for now.

 

[SpeedGhost]

Best stage for Mario IMO- Congo Jungle. Numerous options for recovery, in addition to his gimping ability. What do you guys think?

 

[Battlecow]

Disagree. Mario camps better than anyone except fox, and his tent combos are better than average. 's all about hyrule. Plus he doesn't benefit from Congo recovery as much as other people- his landing lag after the up-B is horrible, and Congo's lack of walls limits his angle options on the Up-B recovery (i.e. he can't ride the wall). Plus he gimps off-wall well

IDK maybe there are subtle things that make it good for him, I don't play mario.

 

[SpeedGhost]

Hyrule stuff is true.

I like congo as his best small stage because although there are no walls he can ride, he can do sneaky platform mindgame recoveries, go under the stage to recover where he can upB to the revolving platforms, and he can even stall with his downB to wait for the barrel...

Edit: Not that im sayin recovering from the barrel is a good idea, im just saying that when in need, he can stall for it.

Havent been playin hyrule since watching the genesis 2 campfest. I have a permanent soft-off for hyrule now, and wasnt thinking clearly lol

Edit2: Soft-off for hyrule... and camping of all forms.

 

[Battlecow]

Maybe you're right. I don't see barrel stalling or platform shenanigans as make-or-break for his game, though- I think he probably does equally well on DL.

Am I the only one who thinks that Mario would get **** on by PC? He depends on those edges even more than like samus does.

 

[SpeedGhost]

Well the higher platforms on each side actually help him fireball camp a little easier that on DL. Its close for sure.

I've played peaches castle with mario and yeah the no ledges part sucks, but for some reason the layout of the stage allows you to do pretty well... I feel like it would take an essay to explain it lol. I dunno, not as good for mario as the other small stages... but it aint as bad as for link...

 

[The Star King]

"Mario camps better than anyone except Fox."

...No.

 

[Battlecow]

True though

At least it's a very commonly held opinion

Can't count the number of times people have said stuff like "Link can outcamp anyone except Mario/Link" or "Mario can outcamp anyone but fox"

Always seemed like the second most legit camper to me too

But again I don't play mario. This is pure theorycraft.

 

[The Star King]

When has anyone ever said those stuff?

 

[ciaza]

Link can outcamp everyone not named Mario and Fox, and even then Mario can be outcamped on Hyrule. He isn't THAT bad, it just sucks that he can be thrown 2cm from the ledge and not recover.

Aside from Jiggs/Ness, Link and Luigi are the closest in terms of matchup values, so I'm guessing you're either biased towards Luigi or haven't played good Links.

Samus, on the other hand...

Leader of the BRoom right there.

I can say this because aa is off on a rural camp for med-training. He has to keep a diary for assessment. It amuses me.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Mario has interesting fireball setups with that funky landscape on Congo.

 

[Limaçon]

While this topic is active, what are some good mario vids to watch? I have seen all of the obvious ones (isai/boom/red mario/nintendude) are there some good lesser known ones (or any good ones from Peru)?

 

[SpeedGhost]

Maltfox has a solid mario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XqI172ENzI

You've probably seen this... the commentary is jokes haha

There's a bunch more of malt on yt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIaFru06IgU

Make sure you see this second one... One of the most entertaining mario matches I've seen

 

[The Star King]

Well, asianaussie is straight up wrong. And even if he wasn't, Link not being to outcamp Mario in the direct match-up =/= Link being a worse camper overall.

I can't even imagine Mario camping Link >_>