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Mario Kart World discussion thread

~ Valkyrie ~

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View attachment 401364

Mario Kart roster discussion really feels like this these days and it's actually starting to get exhausting.
Yeah, I couldn't help feeling same lately as I watched the discussions. In fact, I had ended seeing a comic that made fun of RPG Mario-chars not getting in and questioning why on earth Moo Moo Cow was allowed, which to it boldly worded out "Moo Moo Meadows". It went to voice my disapproval to the comic due smelling like a new coming of Smash Bros-based roster humor reminiscent of "Piranha Plant VS your obscure/overrated "important character" , and not wanting to sit through that becoming the main subject for fanarts happening to Diddy and other missing mainstays, incase they won't show on MKW's roster. (Possibly continued on by the creator of said comic)

Now, I'd find out later how the comic was mainly based on a pre-existing meme and their blog mainly consisted of fanarts for the Mario RPG-chars, so I had to retract my statement. (Not gonna link to the comic in respects to the creator not wanting it to spread further beyond their follower demographic.)

But it is leaving me thinking a bit - especially as it's REALLY weird to see Cappy included here. Is this implying MK-discussion's ended with people mainly growing a kind of dislike/appherension any character with more personality or history than an enemy mook/racetrack obstacle? Is it being built on contrarianism, or just association with the fans that are deemed "too fanatic and complainy about things that never were gonna happen anyway?" :mybodyisreggie:


I do wonder what the landscape's gonna look like incase we don't see certain missing characters coming back and one of them looks to be demoted to an item. Would feel kinda two steps back from Booster Course Pack bringing us plenty fan favorites back as is. (And well, geh, I'd hate to not play as Diddy AGAIN it what's biggest Mario Kart to date.)
 
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Kirbeh

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Maybe I'm in the wrong spaces (or the right spaces since I generally avoid most of the weird bs people bring up,) but I don't really read stuff like the meme that Lime posted as anything more than that.

If anything, it's more of a means of poking fun at Nintendo for their seemingly outright refusal to include the wider Mario umbrella in MK.

I've no doubt there are some people who use it as ammunition against fans of those characters, (there are always a few obnoxious people like that) but are they the majority in the conversation? Probably not.

I'd wager there are probably more fans who are simply a bit jaded and pessimistic than those actively rallying against such inclusions.

And in all fairness to the latter, it's not really hard to see why. Kongs on the whole are Rarely used, with even Diddy having spotty attendance. Wario and the RPG characters on the other simply haven't ever appeared in a Mario Kart, Party, sports game, etc.

And this is just the way things have been since, well, always. Outside of Sluggers actually giving us a decent number of DK characters nearly 2 decades ago there's been nothing.

I can't really blame the people who don't think the odds are favorable for thinking that because the reality is that they haven't been.

Unfortunately, I don't think World is going to break the mold either. I'm a little hopeful for more Kongs in an update or DLC pack, but outside of Diddy and Funky returning Cranky's the only one that I feel has a decent shot.

As for why this is even the case? Anyone's guess. I don't like it either but for whatever reason(s) MK has firmly stayed out of the extended DK, Wario, RPG territory.
 

ivanlerma

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Maybe I'm in the wrong spaces (or the right spaces since I generally avoid most of the weird bs people bring up,) but I don't really read stuff like the meme that Lime posted as anything more than that.

If anything, it's more of a means of poking fun at Nintendo for their seemingly outright refusal to include the wider Mario umbrella in MK.

I've no doubt there are some people who use it as ammunition against fans of those characters, (there are always a few obnoxious people like that) but are they the majority in the conversation? Probably not.

I'd wager there are probably more fans who are simply a bit jaded and pessimistic than those actively rallying against such inclusions.

And in all fairness to the latter, it's not really hard to see why. Kongs on the whole are Rarely used, with even Diddy having spotty attendance. Wario and the RPG characters on the other simply haven't ever appeared in a Mario Kart, Party, sports game, etc.

And this is just the way things have been since, well, always. Outside of Sluggers actually giving us a decent number of DK characters nearly 2 decades ago there's been nothing.

I can't really blame the people who don't think the odds are favorable for thinking that because the reality is that they haven't been.

Unfortunately, I don't think World is going to break the mold either. I'm a little hopeful for more Kongs in an update or DLC pack, but outside of Diddy and Funky returning Cranky's the only one that I feel has a decent shot.

As for why this is even the case? Anyone's guess. I don't like it either but for whatever reason(s) MK has firmly stayed out of the extended DK, Wario, RPG territory.
what about Dixie? she was in Tour.
 

LimeTH

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Maybe I'm in the wrong spaces (or the right spaces since I generally avoid most of the weird bs people bring up,) but I don't really read stuff like the meme that Lime posted as anything more than that.

If anything, it's more of a means of poking fun at Nintendo for their seemingly outright refusal to include the wider Mario umbrella in MK.

I've no doubt there are some people who use it as ammunition against fans of those characters, (there are always a few obnoxious people like that) but are they the majority in the conversation? Probably not.

I'd wager there are probably more fans who are simply a bit jaded and pessimistic than those actively rallying against such inclusions.

And in all fairness to the latter, it's not really hard to see why. Kongs on the whole are Rarely used, with even Diddy having spotty attendance. Wario and the RPG characters on the other simply haven't ever appeared in a Mario Kart, Party, sports game, etc.

And this is just the way things have been since, well, always. Outside of Sluggers actually giving us a decent number of DK characters nearly 2 decades ago there's been nothing.

I can't really blame the people who don't think the odds are favorable for thinking that because the reality is that they haven't been.

Unfortunately, I don't think World is going to break the mold either. I'm a little hopeful for more Kongs in an update or DLC pack, but outside of Diddy and Funky returning Cranky's the only one that I feel has a decent shot.

As for why this is even the case? Anyone's guess. I don't like it either but for whatever reason(s) MK has firmly stayed out of the extended DK, Wario, RPG territory.
It’s both.

I made the meme specifically to make fun of online fan discourse that seems to willfully dismiss hoping for named established characters as delusional or even insane. Particularly, RPG characters or any character originating from a Wario game gets you practically laughed out of the room for suggesting. A lot of people seem to be just fine with the roster being full of baddie padding and insist any actual characters south of Pauline are “too niche” to be included.

I think people are really overestimating how much “niche picks” actually matter in a game like Mario Kart. There is this bizarre idea that if a kid or casual fan sees a character in the roster they don’t recognize, they will refuse to play the game. This makes zero sense because to a casual? A mad scientist, a crocodile king, a wooden puppet guy, a hat ghost, a little witch and a shadow lady are just more characters to play as, just as much as any random baddie is. I’d argue the selection of baddies has more niche picks than any WarioWare character. Literally who is actually going to play as Swoop?

But the fault is still on Nintendo for more or less encouraging this attitude by scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard in every MK game after Wii.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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In a way, you could say that Mario Kart World's roster is a response to the people whom felt that the Koopalings, Baby Rosalina, and Pink Gold Peach were "wasteful" additions to Mario Kart 8's roster.
 
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YeppersPeppers

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Literally who is actually going to play as Swoop?
Me. Genuinely one of my favorite Mario enemies and excited as hell for them.

(I understand the point you're making with all of this and agree that from a more critical perspective things can and probably ought to be more interestingly handled than this.)
 
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Ze Diglett

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If Nintendo feels the need to pad out a massive roster with static, recycled enemy models, maybe we should be asking "hey, why doesn't Nintendo acknowledge the extended Mario universe more often" instead of jumping straight to "Nintendo will never do this, so it's fine if it sucks actually."
 
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fogbadge

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If Nintendo feels the need to pad out a massive roster with static, recycled enemy models, maybe we should be asking "hey, why doesn't Nintendo acknowledge the extended Mario universe more often" instead of jumping straight to "Nintendo will never do this, so it's fine if it sucks actually."
ok but a lot of us don’t think it sucks though
 

Ze Diglett

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Penguin & Pianta have legitimately been my most wanted mario kart characters since Mario Kart Wii. I'm pretty happy
Sure, there are picks I like here too - I've gone on record saying Pianta and Cataquack are incredible choices - but that doesn't really change that there's a lot of objectively missed potential in ignoring anything that's not the mainline Mario platformers and maybe Donkey Kong.
 

BritishGuy54

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I can understand why many people are disappointed or jaded by Mario Kart World’s roster. It’s been over a decade since Mario Kart 8 released, and people were hoping Nintendo would break out of the ‘mainline’ shell by expanding to the expanded universes of Wario, DK, and the RPGs.

At the same time, Moo Moo Cow is funny as hell to see. And I can find fun in Cataquack. Pianta’s been one people have been requesting for a while.

For the crossover crowd, they’re likely not too disappointed yet. That train could hit them during DLC though if there’s nothing, and especially so if the Miis are looking like they’re not returning. That said, World does offer an open world, after all. Might be cool driving around Hyrule, a Pikmin planet, or even the Bionis’ leg off road.

Mario Kart is the game that will be getting a hefty DLC cycle. Smash is still likely a few years off, and it’ll be a while before mainline Mario and Pokémon return.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I can understand why many people are disappointed or jaded by Mario Kart World’s roster. It’s been over a decade since Mario Kart 8 released, and people were hoping Nintendo would break out of the ‘mainline’ shell by expanding to the expanded universes of Wario, DK, and the RPGs.

At the same time, Moo Moo Cow is funny as hell to see. And I can find fun in Cataquack. Pianta’s been one people have been requesting for a while.
I think it's just a matter of dealing with (the possible coin flip on MKW only not just having various mooks being the new racers, but it coming with an absence of fan favorite of yours being gone alongside it - while being reminded once again that Nintendo ever expanding Mario Kart to other Mario-subseries in means of roster and presentation is simply never in the cards. (Or things could go completely opposite direction, maybe in said Direct or through DLC.)

Back on the mooks though:

I think we could have done with much less to help ones picked get to have more effort put on their animations and expressions like the "main gang" of Mario Kart as we've seen so far. Plenty of them so far have had this lazy-feeling jankiness on how they just "float" on the kart seat due not having any appendages, like, Fishbones and Cheep Cheep and ParaBiddy (by a stretch). Meanwhile I can entertain the thought of Cataquack, Goomba (took them long enough) and Coin Coffer being able to drive a kart via being shown using their feet in vein be of Ripper Roo from Crash Team Racing. :4dedede:



As we go down the list of other mooks, we get to ones that just defy any believability or logic to even drive due how they're built like, mainly Pokey, Conkdor with it's super-stubby feet/talons(?) and Snowman. On those you can clearly glance how the devs just plopped them on kart seat and called it a day there - which is a shame as the amount of insane creativity presented to showcase how they could drive a kart was clearly glossed over because their implementation came from being lifted directly from MKW's track mook/hazard assets, and just done nothing more.




The most weirdest case to me is Sidestepper that glaringly comes off like it should have been animated to be using it's pincers to drive... but isn't. The model's exactly the one you see on the track's it's featured in right down to being quite huge. I mean, I guess they made it able to look at passerby racers?

It kinda has me bit tempered on seeing how Batadon (that flying Moai from Super Mario Land) is gonna look like in action as it most likely will follow the above trends - despite having wings that could have been show being used to steer the kart. I could imagine it having been animated with floating a bit up when you let go off the gas pedal, leaning a bit to the right when you brake and fall down to show it's putting it's weight on the gas pedal to accelerate - incase it got more dedicated polish like the mainstays of Mario Kart.

It does make feel kinda dampened on how little effort was put on good sum of them so far. I guess they feel... "lazy" in terms of current execution? It's a shame because I'm lowkey happy to explore playing as Penguin and Dolphin, but am afraid they'll feel more "wooden" and not as alive compared to main Mario-cast, reminding me that they were just easy "asset-based padding" in execution. Guess we'll just have to see how they're executed.



Then there's the fact that so far, none of them has been shown to get costumes in same vein as the current more "recurring" mooks from past games, like Koopa/Shy Guy/Lakitu. Very curious how Direct will address this.

I'm sure many don't really care much about how well the mooks will be executed in means of animation or creativity portrayal department, as just being able to drive as them is enough wacky and funny to enjoy regardless. But I hope people can see how some just aren't that thrilled about them with the current execution on a chunk of them, - especially as they comprise the current bulk of the new additions to Mario Kart's lineup of racers. :070:


Now, on the other side of the coin: fortunately there's been more mooks on the roster that clearly look less "logically impossible" to drive: such as Cow, Peepa, Dolphin, Swoop. Then there's been more dedicated animations and expressions given to some Tour-debuting mooks, such as Hammer Bro and Chargin' Chuck. I kinda wonder will this imply they've been given worked on enough gain costumes realistically.
 
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MBRedboy31

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I wonder if they came up with the Kamek item first, necessitating making a whole bunch of miscellaneous course hazard enemies playable (and if they’re going through the trouble making them playable for the item, there‘s no reason to not also have them be regularly selectable drivers as well.)

There‘s also the fact that they can get away with not giving many of them 9 alternate costumes each, since expectations for them aren‘t as high.

(I’m still waiting for Skedaddler but I’m not super confident in any Wonder content appearing in the game at all currently.)
 

Thegameandwatch

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Penguin & Pianta have legitimately been my most wanted mario kart characters since Mario Kart Wii. I'm pretty happy
Goomba and Piranha Plant feel like examples of characters that would be playable eventually in the series. The former doesn’t have arms but King Boo doesn’t have legs so it’s not a problem.
 

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Goomba and Piranha Plant feel like examples of characters that would be playable eventually in the series. The former doesn’t have arms but King Boo doesn’t have legs so it’s not a problem.
Well, If Ripper Roo can drive with just his feet, what's stopping a Goomba?
 

Oracle Link

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Speaking of mooks just please never have octumba! Hes literally just an octorok ripoff so i rather have the original recipe!
Ergo Link, zelda, ganon and octorok from echoes of wisdom do it you cowards at nintendo add them they scream put me in a goofy go kart!
 

Louie G.

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I find it a little hard to be upset with "low effort" additions like some of these enemies for a few reasons. Mainly if you put it into context, assuming the idea was first that Kamek turns you into an enemy for a brief period of time, you would have a lot of people ask why you can't simply use those characters if they're already programmed to be proper racers. In that regard you wouldn't expect them to go all the way in giving them the most detailed animations and costumes akin to Mario or Peach, but you would also want them to be selectable racers with that work already done. It makes sense to me.

Also, the attention to detail and surplus of content in this game is otherwise astounding. I think Sidestepper not using his claws to drive is weird, but calling anything about this game lazy feels like taking 100 other things for granted. I can forgive a couple weird looking animations for these effectively easter egg adjacent racers when there is just so much here to gawk at.

There are a handful of characters I didn't really need to be playable, but just as well it seems like they've got a lot of fans too. I think Cheep Cheep is a weird fit, but I've seen a lot of excitement around Fishbone. Conkdor has gotten some heat within this thread, but that's one of the characters I'm most excited to try out - Pokey too. I'd have said Swoop was kind of unnecessary but someone above claimed them to be their favorite enemy. At the end of the day I think the go big or go home mindset of just retooling a crap ton of models is the right move. And I can't bring myself to be that upset that they aren't Diddy Kong or Mona or whatever, because there's no guarantee that removing these relatively low-effort racers would free up that much space for someone requiring a brand new model and more fleshed out animations, costumes and what have you. There seems to be a clear designation between the "main" starting racers and whoever else is unlocked via gameplay quirks like Kamek and hopefully some kind of free roam exploration.

I will maybe be a bit more frustrated if they "draw the line" before we get other weirdos like Thwomp, but we'll see how things play out soon enough. The only omission I'm upset right now about is King Bob-Omb. And I'm holding out some hope that there are free-roam bosses that you can defeat and unlock separately like him, Petey Piranha or Gooper Blooper. I guess we'll get an answer to that in a couple days too!
 
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MartianSnake

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Also surprised that they weren’t in Tour. Same with Piranha Plant and Pianta.

Maybe they were saving them for World?
I don't think they were in the interest of "saving" anyone for World. If that was the case they'd probably save Pauline, Nabbit, and all the other newcomers.

I think it just didn't really cross their minds until the "enemypalooza" theme came into existence
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I find it a little hard to be upset with "low effort" additions like some of these enemies for a few reasons. Mainly if you put it into context, assuming the idea was first that Kamek turns you into an enemy for a brief period of time, you would have a lot of people ask why you can't simply use those characters if they're already programmed to be proper racers. In that regard you wouldn't expect them to go all the way in giving them the most detailed animations and costumes akin to Mario or Peach, but you would also want them to be selectable racers with that work already done. It makes sense to me.
True - and I'm not even trying to advocate them to be mere "non-playable racers". But I can't help feeling the novelty of playing as these quirky and highly variable Mario-enemies looks to be running paper-thin pretty quick primarily due coming mainly from Kamek's Mook Factory and tracks themselves as ready-made assets.

Right now I'm still hunching most of them won't be gaining costumes like designated main racers (which'd be a shame to all of the Moo Cow-fans) - and rn now I see of them have what are mainly "basic trick animations" that doesn't really express their character further in spite of their quirky designs - such as Coin Coffer, which is a shame because I really do like that enemy, but feel kinda dampened in my enthutiasm to play as it due not being able to escape the very fact that the devs didn't do much with him except "the bare minimum". I can't even get too excited about mooks I wanna play! :drflip:

Also, the attention to detail and surplus of content in this game is otherwise astounding. I think Sidestepper not using his claws to drive is weird, but calling anything about this game lazy feels like taking 100 other things for granted.
The very fact that Mario Kart World has shown to have all the incredible detail and deeming content in, makes it all the more jarring when there's racers in it that come off pretty low-effort due origins of their implementation.

That's what ends me not really being bought much on seeing these "bare-bone effort" mooks in action, whilst having to deal with some of them I might wanna play, feel underwhelming during that same action. It feels eerily similar to the kind of quality we received for racetracks in early waves of Booster Course Pass, whenever you go from those to base game tracks and vice versa. :025:

At the end of the day I think the go big or go home mindset of just retooling a crap ton of models is the right move. And I can't bring myself to be that upset that they aren't Diddy Kong or Mona or whatever, because there's no guarantee that removing these relatively low-effort racers would free up that much space for someone requiring a brand new model and more fleshed out animations, costumes and what have you. There seems to be a clear designation between the "main" starting racers and whoever else is unlocked via gameplay quirks like Kamek and hopefully some kind of free roam exploration.
I guess it really just feels like a a matter of quantity over quality - which to me is 50/50 in how we're getting all these unique Mario-enemies to race as, yet know they'll be varying wildly in effort put to them. Which really leaves me not really feeling that excited to have not much major to unlock character-wise except mooks that clearly would come to grow feeling more and more padding to fill up the roster in spite of their quirkiness, mainly coming from not having much of their quirkiness explored or taken advantage of to make racing of them feel as cool as they would be. I'd be pretty disappointed, regardless if we come to have mooks mainly or also some of the missing rosters returning.

This is not to say anyone here should have to be disappointed about the implementations of mooks this way, or feel bad about being content on playing as them just as is. But I kinda wanna make a point that me not jiving with some of their implementation isn't me using thatto deem Mario Kart World "ruined" or "bad now" for featuring them - I just feel like for all these unique enemies being included and many getting excited about them, I'm gonna get smacked with a reminder about how the implementation on some chunk of them leaves a lot to be desired. :drsad:


I will maybe be a bit more frustrated if they "draw the line" before we get other weirdos like Thwomp, but we'll see how things play out soon enough. The only omission I'm upset right now about is King Bob-Omb. And I'm holding out some hope that there are free-roam bosses that you can defeat and unlock separately like him, Petey Piranha or Gooper Blooper. I guess we'll get an answer to that in a couple days too!
I managed to catch Thwomp and Sumo Bro in one of the tweets today, so I feel they could be in the cards (or karts, in this case :p). And with Bowser being show to still be a sole heavy-weight, I have a feeling there'ls gonna be plenty big bosses joining him. :falco:

I kinda hope we see Reznor or even Rex at this rate, BTW.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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It still boggles my mind that Wario wasn't placed in the same weight group as Bowser. After all, seeing Wario and Waluigi have the exact same stats feels like an absolute joke when the former has always been heavier than the latter in the past Mario Kart installments.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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It still boggles my mind that Wario wasn't placed in the same weight group as Bowser. After all, seeing Wario and Waluigi have the exact same stats feels like an absolute joke when the former has always been heavier than the latter in the past Mario Kart installments.
Maybe Wario has worked out lately?



 

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Maybe Wario has worked out lately?
Who knows, but it definitely feels like Nintendo hasn't gotten the memo that Waluigi's thinner body frame would put him in a lighter weight class than the likes of Donkey Kong and Cow. And the same ordeal even applies to Wiggler.

Anyway, that very kind of predicament has me wishing that Mario Kart World implements a customization feature that's similar to what Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed had used (seeing as you can no longer change a vehicle's tires). But it's probably asking for too much.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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The announcement of DLC coming out some time after launch. Whether this’ll be like the Booster Course Pass or be its own thing remains to be seen.
It might be too early to announce such a thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they do this in the future, though.

C'mon, RPG and expanded franchise racers...
 

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Direct is about 27 hours away. Any more predictions?
Probably not asking for too much outside of some additional details on the stuff that we've seen so far. But I do hope that a vehicle modification system can be implemented, which can enable us to adjust the vehicles' stats slightly. For some examples...
  • Speed +0.2, Handling -0.2
  • Acceleration +0.2, Weight -0.2
  • Weight +0.2, Acceleration -0.2
  • Handling +0.2, Speed -0.2
Of course, the mods would have limitations in that they can't be used if the targeted stat is set to the maximum value by default. Also, a single stat can only be increased up to 3 units (+0.6), so for a vehicle like the Tiny Titan, the best that its acceleration can be would be 2.8/4 if Baby Peach was to use it. And of course, you can't just buff a stat, as you must do a trade-off by nerfing at least one stat in return.
 

Thegameandwatch

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expanded franchise racers...
DKC characters and Poochy are probably the most likely or at least eventually if they aren’t in the base roster.

Not sure why Nintendo hasn’t used Wario’s extended cast outside of the Wario games and Smash. I think one of the few times was in Mario Maker 1 because of the costumes.
 
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