Marth doesn't impress at E3

[luigijerk]

I know Ken is washed up, but Marth looked very underwhelming at the tournament. I think it is finally his turn to be mid-low tier. He's lacking in his usual power, but of course still has a long disjointed hitbox. His recover is middle class. His final smash is garbage, but that won't matter for competitive play.

 

[Shaya]

Apparently no double fair on short hop.
Throws are worse almost universally, and a solid grab game is what keeps Marth strong in terms of pressure. This could really suck for him.

Hitboxes/etc seem iffy.

Yeah with grab game nerf, I don't know if Marth's moveset will cut it.

 

[Sol0ke]

It was a free for all with items and Ken was out of practice for a bit.

I'm going to pick up the game and confirm to see if he really did get heavily nerfed or not.

 

[Shaya]

Looks like 360 fair got killed, I guess all the twitter rage killed it and they haven't readjusted marth

 

[Hong]

Am I the only one who felt Marth looked slower than Brawl?

 

[Lautsuu~]

I haven't watched the tourney yet...but...oh god. Nerf anyone but Marth.

 

[Minato Arisato]

Am I the only one who felt Marth looked slower than Brawl?

He DID seem slower...oh man...Marth was my main. *facedesks*

 

[Hong]

He DID seem slower...oh man...Marth was my main. *facedesks*

Yeah. Even just his sword swings. You could barely see them in motion with the naked eye, prior.

 

[Reginleif]

Marth... slower? Does this mean queen of ylisse Lucina will be the fastest rep for Fire Emblem?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

HIS THROWS HAD ABSURDLY HIGH KNOCKBACK, HE WAS FLOATY AND SLOW AS HELL AND HIS RANGE IS WTFROFLWHY.

UGH x 10000

This game may yet not suck, but Marth? Does.

ARGH.

 

[Reginleif]

HIS THROWS HAD ABSURDLY HIGH KNOCKBACK, HE WAS FLOATY AND SLOW AS HELL AND HIS RANGE IS WTFROFLWHY.

UGH x 10000

This game may yet not suck, but Marth? Does.

ARGH.

Patience, sis. They're only making way for the speediest new character, Lucina. Chrom can never.

 

[ACDC]

Well you can't expect a character to be top tier in every game. Just look at how Kirby fluctuates from game to game. Top tier in 64, bottom in melee, mid-bottom in brawl, middle in project M and probably mid-high in smash 4. Marth just got consistent high tier by dumb luck if you ask me.

 

[Morbi]

I am not sure; but Scar said it on stream, there is something seriously off with the balance is Samus was the top tier character according to Sakurai.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Depressing news.

 

[Pazzo.]

I am not sure; but Scar said it on stream, there is something seriously off with the balance is Samus was the top tier character according to Sakurai.

Has anyone considered the fact that he may have been trolling the Smash invitational players? While it's a weak argument, I can see Sakurai saying this...

But anyway, if it's true, then he's going against what he's said before about wanting to make the game more balanced....

But can there truly be a perfectly balanced Smash Bros?

 

[victinivcreate1]

I played the demo at the Nintendo World Store.

Marth is bad now. But landing tippers is easy. Forward smash is still powerful, dair has a pretty big tip now, but you know how in brawl (if hes facing to the right), the hitbox was right to left? Well now in Smash 4, dair seems to turn him AROUND, and swing from left to right. This might be a buff considering the other side of dair has a bigger tipper, at least in Melee and Brawl.

His nerfs?
NON EXISTENT COMBO GAME.
No dash dance
Approaches are unsafe in this game, even SHFair approaches. Marth will struggle.
Grab reach reduced a lot
Throws have no combo set ups
Fair knocks too far horizontally away for any follow ups, and its super laggy when SHFFd. And even if you autocancel it, it has plenty of ending lag anyway.

 

[Sol0ke]

I saw Project Treehouse and Ken shows off Marth much better in the 1v1 segments

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Hopefully though, since we did get prior play before game release, maybe Sakurai will listen to the feedback and adjust accordingly. If not, well I hate to say it, but Marth is no longer going to be 5th best on the tier list. Anyways, what do you guys think the chances of Marth somehow being changed to his somewhat former glory, before game release? As much as I want it to happen, I sadly have a pessimistic feeling, it won't.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Hopefully though, since we did get prior play before game release, maybe Sakurai will listen to the feedback and adjust accordingly. If not, well I hate to say it, but Marth is no longer going to be 5th best on the tier list. Anyways, what do you guys think the chances of Marth somehow being changed to his somewhat former glory, before game release? As much as I want it to happen, I sadly have a pessimistic feeling, it won't.

The game is gonna be a campy mess if Sakurai doesn't change it. I'll just be using Mega Man more than Marth.

 

[BJN39]

I saw Project Treehouse and Ken shows off Marth much better in the 1v1 segments

Any links to the battles?

 

[Sol0ke]

http://www.twitch.tv/nintendo/b/537496148
Around 6:40:12

The second one didn't finish but still, it's something

Keep in mind it's still with items, but still 1v1

This, for me, at least gives some hope Marth isn't bad

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

In line. Gonna try him out. Fingers crossed.

UPDATE: Wow. He's different.

You need to be very careful with F-airs imo. You're only gonna get one for each short hop and expect some ending lag. Dancing blade is slower.

I found myself D-tiling and F-Smashing a lot. Tippers are easier.

Man, they really nerfed him. The real nerf comes with his sluggish nature imo. He just doesn't feel as agile anymore.

 

[ellord]

Marth alway been one of the most balanced character in melee and brawl, why did they nerf him. He has more range but deal less damage, okay i can take it and its not bad. But why make him slowler while game speed is faster. If he has no damage, no speed and no combo possibility (i include combo with anticipation, not guaranted combo only), then he has nothing good, his spacing isnt good anymore with a slow landing lag.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Looking over my video, grab and F-Air got struck with the nerf hammer hard.

F-Airs range doesn't feel as big as it looked in the smash direct. Still large and slightly longer than brawl but nothing to go crazy about. Ending lag is noticeable.

Grabs are just different. They don't feel like Marth's grabs at all. He launches people so far it's impossible to use them to set up.

I found myself transitioning from defensive to offensive play with great difficulty because of these two nerfs.

 

[Robertman2]

I wonder why they nerfed Marth?

 

[ellord]

I feel they nerfed/buff character that seem unbabanced to the eyes of casuals. I mean most of them will just spam dancing blade which is fast and easy to place or counter because they doesn't use fast move. ZSS for me was a character hard to play but strong if well used, now i feel she's strong already and will be OP if well used.

 

[Hydde]

What i feared.

Brawl Marth game revolved around sporadic slashes and grabs... nothing like the times of melee when you could link various slashes in sucession, and combo out of grabs like a madman.

Now, Marth´s meta seems to revolve around slashing sporadicly and camping until enemies are damaged enoight for a Fsmash or get a lucky spike.

To throw more salt to the wound, Its impossible to double F-air...... which was marth´s bread and butter.

It seems he doesnt have resources to compete now....as u cant depend on single atacks on a player as limited as marth. In the times of old, his range, his grab game , his ledge covering and his control game made him top tier.... now he has lost everything.

I dont know what Nintendo is thinking to be honest.

 

[Robertman2]

Here's hoping Lucina is more like MArth.

 

[Chukkaque]

Well lets remember that is technically just a demo and stuff is still subject to change.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Seems like the nerf bat finally touched Math.

 

[Opana]

Didn't he need nerfing?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Didn't he need nerfing?

Not really, he was the type of top tier who isn't necessarily OP like Meta Knight or had something like chain-grabbing or tripping bananas at his disposal. No, he was the type that had a lot of great skills at his disposal and ended up being a popular and great character because of that, who handled really well in matchups. He was overall a nicely balanced character. Keep in mind though, I'm not the biggest competitive person, so I'm not sure if I got everything Marth, right.

 

[ellord]

In my opinion he was the most balanced character followed by falco.

 

[thesage]

Not really, he was the type of top tier who isn't necessarily OP like Meta Knight or had something like chain-grabbing or tripping bananas at his disposal. No, he was the type that had a lot of great skills at his disposal and ended up being a popular and great character because of that, who handled really well in matchups. He was overall a nicely balanced character. Keep in mind though, I'm not the biggest competitive person, so I'm not sure if I got everything Marth, right.

I quit playing Brawl competitively because of Marth's cg on Ness.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

I quit playing Brawl competitively because of Marth's cg on Ness.

To be fair, that was a problem with Ness's flaws more so than it was with Marth's strengths.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Only nerfs i heard being discussed at md/va smash at best buy:

Cant short hop x2 fair
Dancing blade is slower

Only negative things i hear thus far.


I think theres another thing yall are forgetting let me remind you--alternate special moves. No. Dont think it will save marth, but his tools can be played with to adapt to the game itself. Though that would require the use of your thinking caps to see if marth really is just as nerfed as yall claim or if something else better is coming. Dont forget this is a old build, he could be tweaked before release.

 

[SmashShadow]

Counter too strong

 

[Shaya]

Well if it's like Brawl, he does 10% more damage than what he counters.
So he hit Megaman for like 35 damage, which I'll tell you right now, have marth counter a 35 damage move in Brawl (items or something like warlock punch). They're going to die.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Good thing I know my timing with counter, since Marth's counter does a major amount of damage/knockback in this game, imagine how much Ike's counter will do...

 

[ellord]

Counter has a bad ending lag with a little starting lag. The tip is just to not use slow movement, in tournament pro marth player rarely use counter.