jarbAin
Smash Journeyman
Everyone here is like dark times have fallen upon us. Have they? Is there still hope for us?
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Social Mount Dedede - His Majesty's Social Thread (Come in and Introduce Yourself!)
- Thread starter shrooby
- Start date
KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
Don't really think it's as simple as "they don't care about Dedede." A lot of their data comes from For Glory and Japanese perceptions of the characters, as well as their internal testing. Plus they take into consideration FFA and other modes.
I'm actually a bit more hopeful now that we'll get buffs than I was before the patch, mostly because this patch touched things we weren't expecting. Lucario, Mewtwo, Kirby, and possibly others all got mobility buffs. With that in mind, I've been thinking about other ways to buff Dedede now that nothing is off the table.
- Faster walk speed, slightly increased air speed, and better air acceleration/deceleration. Maybe even a better run speed if you want to go nuts. Now, these would likely be very minor changes, but imagine a Dedede with a faster walk - that'd be very scary! Remember, you can do everything out of a walk. Spacing jabs/grabs/ftilt/dtilt would be much more efficient.
- Slightly faster jab, with a faster transition from 1 to 2 to 3. Just better close quarters tools really.
- Reduce recovery frames on ftilt.
- Lower KBG on dthrow - okay they gave friggin BOWSER a hoo hah. Pretty much every super heavy weight can grab you and turn that grab into a potential kill, even Ganondorf when you take into account his command grab. This doesn't necessarily have to be the case for Dedede but it sure would help.
- Lower knockback angles on Fthrow and Bthrow. Having these throws send people out horizontally would make them amazing for positional throws, imagine getting someone off stage with these. Now they're in a bad position because instead of being given a free ticket to recover high, they're stuck falling below the ledge and forced into a low recovery against Dedede.
- Either shave a couple of frames of landing lag on Fair and Bair, or give them better auto-cancels and FAFs.
- [Insert Gordo fix of choice here]
- Now this one miiight be a bit more controversial among my fellow Dededes, particularly the ones coming in from Brawl but: give utilt a frame speed modifier so that the animation is faster (1.5-2x?) and reduce the BKB significantly. Pow, new combo tool. Maybe you could increase KBG some as well, for those higher percent follow up, or possible kills at super high percents.
TMJ_Jack
Smash Journeyman
All I want is a better Inhale and jab. One out of two so far isn't bad. If I'm feeling ultra hopeful, more ideal throws would be nice too, just like KeithTheGeek said. More of a horizontal angle from bthrow or fthrow would make edge guarding easier.
I really want to see the cosmetic change to the Super Dedede Jump. Could someone please post a video or image of it? My curiosity is killing me.
I really want to see the cosmetic change to the Super Dedede Jump. Could someone please post a video or image of it? My curiosity is killing me.
Krubby
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
- Messages
- 53
Hello! I'm a dedicated Dedede main who picked him up at the very beginning because he's such a lovable unique character and I've been getting really good and wanna help contribute to his meta!
On the current topic, what I think Dedede could use more than anything else is more reliable kill options than down smash and back air. A throw that could more easily set up into off stage kills or an up-throw that kills at 140+ would be reeeeeally nice for closing out stocks. I hate clobba'in someone into high percents effortlessly only to not be able to kill them with the n-airs, f-tilts and rolls I'm able to land while they slowly wear away at me and ultimately kill me first :T
On the current topic, what I think Dedede could use more than anything else is more reliable kill options than down smash and back air. A throw that could more easily set up into off stage kills or an up-throw that kills at 140+ would be reeeeeally nice for closing out stocks. I hate clobba'in someone into high percents effortlessly only to not be able to kill them with the n-airs, f-tilts and rolls I'm able to land while they slowly wear away at me and ultimately kill me first :T
OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
Oh hey, welcome mate! I like how you have to work for your KO's by walling the opponent, forcing them to the edge, and then hitting them when their options are reduced. Personally, instead of making his KO moves easier to land I'd rather they made him even better at walling and forcing people away, likely by upgrading framedata on some moves. Then he'd still have an easier time KO'ing while keeping his special flavor of gameplay. Could be he simply needs something easier though to supplement that.
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Congrats,
Soul Train
!
Soul Train
!
OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
Oh, did I Miss something?Congrats,
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Congrats,
OnFullTilt
, I was recently made moderator of the board here. And thanks, Jimmy! I'm crazy excited to be mod here, and have a lot of ideas for the board. Just give me til a bit til after family Christmas stuff, we'll get things rolling!
C0rvus
Pro Hands Catcher
My brother plays Dedede and pushes my **** in all the time, and competes decently at our local. Is all hope lost for this character? I know patches have been unkind to him, but do you guys think he's worth playing? I have been having a main crisis and Dedede looks fun, but I know he's pretty bad. Idk what I'm doing with my life tbqh.
Anyway, I may keep him in my pocket and maybe promote him if he gets buffed in the last patch. I like the look of his playstyle. I am a big fan of edgeguards, ledge play and traps.
Anyway, I may keep him in my pocket and maybe promote him if he gets buffed in the last patch. I like the look of his playstyle. I am a big fan of edgeguards, ledge play and traps.
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Is hope lost? NEVER. Dedede is life, man. The penguin is made for those who are real with the crap in life, those who wrestle with reality and still freaking love to smack fools with a hammer. Watch this and tell me you don't love him.
With patches: I don't care if the next five patches turn all of his moves into Jet Hammer. As long as we have the infinite crouch taunt, D3 will forever be broken.
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C0rvus
Pro Hands Catcher
Huh. You know, the way I struggle with Smash, I know I'll never be the best. I've competing more than a year now. Been playing since I was a little kid. Can't hold a main. Still not sure why I'm playing. Maybe Smash is just one of life's challenges. It's not about winning, perhaps just rolling with the punches and not giving up. Maybe I'm overthinking things as usual.
Maybe I'll give the king a swing. Your channel is an excellent resource, and you've made me think, so that's cool. I hope Dedede gets some love in the future.
Maybe I'll give the king a swing. Your channel is an excellent resource, and you've made me think, so that's cool. I hope Dedede gets some love in the future.
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
C0rvus
, this mindset right here is why Dedede is the best character in this game.It's a hella lotta work, but my friend, you will be the true people's champ when you finally get it right.
Also, I still stand by my statement that Dedede is totally viable (with work work work).
We, and
, believe in you!
TMJ_Jack
Smash Journeyman
I'll lose to ZZS, Rosaluma, Cloud, and Shiek frauds one billion times before I drop Dadledingo. I play to win as Dedede and nobody else.
C0rvus
Pro Hands Catcher
Your dedication is enviable. My issue stems from what I think may be chronic indecision. Here I stand having played the game since release, still unsure of who to play. I think I have to work on my mind outside of the game, because this is beyond ridiculous.
Meanwhile, Dedede is pretty fun, but I cannot imagine playing him seriously in certain matchups.
Meanwhile, Dedede is pretty fun, but I cannot imagine playing him seriously in certain matchups.
OnFullTilt
Smash Apprentice
He certainly struggles in some matchups. They can personally be some of my favorite moments since you need to really know how to play D3 and play well if you want to win. Definitely not for everyone though.
TMJ_Jack
Smash Journeyman
My advice is to play a character you like. Don't just go find some high-tier combo video and try to replicate that. Play to win, but win as you. Make your own style. If that happens to be easiest to do with Dedede, welcome to His Majesty's Royal Court. If not, go do you.
randomguy1235
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Messages
- 90
Even though Soul Train's video (and the community's optimism) is very uplifting and there's no chance of me dropping D3, I'm getting very discouraged by our lack of buffs when we so desperately need them. Instead, the entire low-mid tier cast were buffed throughout the course of the game! I don't understand Sakurai's reluctance to fix our obvious problems. Hell, just making our forward/back throws' knockback more horizontal rather than vertical would ensure that we can kill around 140 at the ledge...I'm so frustrated man.
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Soul Train
Just laugh.
It's because Daddy Sakurai secretly loves us D3 mains the most. He knows that life doesn't give handouts, and wants us to learn how to fight uphill. Build character. Win when no one else will. "Our arrows will blot out the sun" "THEN WE WILL FIGHT IN THE SHADE."
However we will organize an effort here to let Nintendo know about patch requests, soon. Ganondorf, DK, now Bowser - it's our turn.
Ghidorah14
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 758
Clearly, they're saving the best for last. I mean, we still got that bayo/corrin patch incoming, so...
Raven the Obsidian
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 38
- NNID
- RavenTheObsidian
- 3DS FC
- 3866-8144-2758
I admire your dedication to the true King. Dedede is one of my favourite characters in any media I've ever consumed, so seeing someone else who loves the King as much as I do is great. Not enough people appreciate him tbh.
KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
Eyy guys, I'm here at AGDQ. There was a little Smash 4 tourney here that I got 2nd in. Ran through most of the bracket with Dedede, and used him a couple of times in grands. Switched off of him during GF though, but that was mostly because I wanted to goof around with the guy I was playing. Had some really great kills though, and hopefully the VODs of top 16 will be put up soon.
jarbAin
Smash Journeyman
Could someone explain, or has someone already explained gordo interaction with the sides of the lylat cruise? (is that stage even legal? My information is probably not up to date or accurate, i apologize.) I just got the feeling that it might be useful. I can not test it myself as I only own 3ds... Also another thing. Sometimes when I throw gordos on battlefield, they bounce on the platforms, barely gaining any height, and nearly staying on place. (for example, up gordo thrown from me very ledge of the side platforms will do this on the upper platform.) Can someone do /has someone done research about it, can someone tell me when it will happen and can it be actually used in battle?
Soul Train
Just laugh.
First - in the future please post stuff like this in the Q&A thread, where questions in this manner belong.
To answer: Yes, Lylat is legal and even a valuable counterpick at times (its small size helps make up for D3's bad horizontal movement). And the rules that govern Gordos are pretty simple on the stage: when you throw out a Gordo, the part of the stage it hits is usually moving up or down. Whem the stage is rising, it makes Gordo disappear almost instantly. When the stage is moving down, Gordo bounces at crazy angles relative to the incline.
And it can definitely be used in battle - please go check the Research Thread, Girthquake posted a whole thing on it there.
Putuk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
- Messages
- 1,286
- Location
- None of your beeswax!
- 3DS FC
- 2723-9688-6533
- Switch FC
- SW-8387-2163-6416
I love the dedication to the king in this thread.
It reinvigorates wanting to main the king.
It reinvigorates wanting to main the king.
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
Has any ever just done this
In a tense match just give no ***** at all and charge that sexy jet hammer.
In a tense match just give no ***** at all and charge that sexy jet hammer.
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Dark Phazon
please post links to youtube vids only, don't embed.So I found this absurdity, thought it worth sharing. Great Dastardly Diamonds, Batman.
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Ghidorah14
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 758
My life is now complete.
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
Will they be a balance patch though when Bayo&Corrin release?
I sure hope so...and i hope its insane buffs for DDD & Ganon
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
Had this match the other day...this is just beyond stupid how much Jet Hammer sucks..
Its weak...its slow...crap shield damage everything....its not even remotely worth the risk..
The 1st Jet Hammer was fully charged should brake shields in 1 hit....
And the 2nd time i hit him i get a sourspot....which shouldnt even exist tbh....
Its weak...its slow...crap shield damage everything....its not even remotely worth the risk..
The 1st Jet Hammer was fully charged should brake shields in 1 hit....
And the 2nd time i hit him i get a sourspot....which shouldnt even exist tbh....
Soul Train
Just laugh.
First - I've mentioned it before, please just post the straight up link to youtube vids, please. Do not embed, it makes things much harder for those on mobile.
Second - would you mind if I used some of your footage in the patch request vid I'm working on? I of course would credit you, and it would be the perfect clip to show when I mention Jet Hammer.
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
Yes ofc you may
You are the Master DDD Soul Train after all.
Here are some other DDDirty Matches.
https://youtu.be/bEvocy3Q9VE
https://youtu.be/GB6hRLqTz14
KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
I don't remember if I shared this with you guys, because it's practically preaching to the choir and I was trying to avoid continuing the Dedede negativity train. But, just a short little video showing why inhale and Gordo Toss are ridiculous (in a bad way): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErV_-ruAmgQ
I've come to terms with our character's shortcomings though, and at this point I feel like the only thing I can do is press forward. With a secondary, of course, but still press forward. None of the other characters appeal to me as much, and while I'll lab with Corrin and Bayonetta I doubt they'll jive with my style.
I've come to terms with our character's shortcomings though, and at this point I feel like the only thing I can do is press forward. With a secondary, of course, but still press forward. None of the other characters appeal to me as much, and while I'll lab with Corrin and Bayonetta I doubt they'll jive with my style.
jarbAin
Smash Journeyman
Fear not, my Dedede friends, I know just the tech to cover all the shortcomings of the king.
Charge fsmash, and while your opponent is in it's range, pause the game, look in your phone, and say it's an important call. While your friend is disturbed, low key unpause the game. Friend won't have time to react, and they'll get hit by the fsmash and die, because it's King Dedede
Avoid using it too much, as your reputation might suffer, especially with newer or more serious friends. Also be vary of the punish your friend might perform if you're close enough.
Note: I just think this kind of mischief is just the very essence of King Dedede.
Also, don't use this in tournaments, as most people cannot comprehend the power, and it is thus deemed unfair.
Charge fsmash, and while your opponent is in it's range, pause the game, look in your phone, and say it's an important call. While your friend is disturbed, low key unpause the game. Friend won't have time to react, and they'll get hit by the fsmash and die, because it's King Dedede
Avoid using it too much, as your reputation might suffer, especially with newer or more serious friends. Also be vary of the punish your friend might perform if you're close enough.
Note: I just think this kind of mischief is just the very essence of King Dedede.
Also, don't use this in tournaments, as most people cannot comprehend the power, and it is thus deemed unfair.
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
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KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
So here's an idea I think would be relevant to pushing D3's meta, going forward: a thread dedicated to match analysis.
We already have a dedicated video thread, but it frankly doesn't see much use or updating and rarely do we pick apart matches beyond simple observations. One of the hardest things for me, as a player, to come to terms with is really identifying my own flaws or recognizing my own play in general. I didn't even realize I floated around as much as I did with Dedede until I heard a couple of people make an off-handed comment about it!
Additionally, I think maybe a place where we can share videos of us watching and dissecting our sets, new and old, going over our mind-set in the moment (i.e. why did I use jet hammer here) would be a good way to focus our efforts on recognizing our strengths and weaknesses. When I have the time I would love to take apart some of my own play in such a manner to share with you guys, and maybe someone here could point out something I missed.
We already have a dedicated video thread, but it frankly doesn't see much use or updating and rarely do we pick apart matches beyond simple observations. One of the hardest things for me, as a player, to come to terms with is really identifying my own flaws or recognizing my own play in general. I didn't even realize I floated around as much as I did with Dedede until I heard a couple of people make an off-handed comment about it!
Additionally, I think maybe a place where we can share videos of us watching and dissecting our sets, new and old, going over our mind-set in the moment (i.e. why did I use jet hammer here) would be a good way to focus our efforts on recognizing our strengths and weaknesses. When I have the time I would love to take apart some of my own play in such a manner to share with you guys, and maybe someone here could point out something I missed.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
I scared a Ness player with it before. Jumped with him as he air-dodged and smacked him out of it to take the match.
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Creating an official thread for this exact purpose is actually next on my list (after patch request video stuffs). If you remember I mentioned something about this in the big group message you were on - where specific people on the forum would provide group analysis/feedback to quality matches, on some kind of schedule. This would need to be differentiated from a more normal Q&A thread "help me improve my D3" request, perhaps in the form of a locked, special-permissions thread. These videos would be of higher level play, and the analysis would be structured in a "general thoughts/strengths/areas of improvement" for the player. improve.
But we might as well get things moving now. I'm just thinking on the format now. It would be nice to have people coordinate together and condense everything into one post - video, analysis, etc. But maybe that's not realistic. Schedulewise, perhaps on a weekly (or bi-weekly) timeline? We could create and keep adding to a list of videos to analyze as well (ex: good tournament vids).
Thoughts?
As for specific matchup tech: I think those fit best right now in the General Matchup thread, or even better the Research and Tech thread - there are reserved character specific sections all throughout there.