MultiVersus General Discussion - Shut Down planned for May 30.

[skylanders fan]

I like this pick if it’s true. Of course I want Daffy and other looney tunes characters but I think a lot of people are afraid of the game ending and not getting the big characters that are missing. Im just hopeful with this pick they are confident they can get those characters later

 

[LimeTH]

Spoiler

I understand the flaw in the logic of "bunny from Looney Tunes = must be a Bugs clone." I agree that that's silly, I said exactly that in my first reply after all.

I still don't follow the logic on the "video game characters are inherently less unique" deal though. I feel like you're being dismissive of that medium for the sake of your argument.

In addition, while again, I think it's flawed to automatically assume a character like Lola (or any character really) should be a clone, any character, regardless of medium aren't precluded from this.

Even looking at characters like Luigi and Shadow who are deliberately similar in their source material or even clones/echoes in Smash itself like Roy/Chrom, etc. you can make the same argument in either direction. From the onset, you could say Roy had no business being a Marth clone or Chrom one of Roy. You could argue that Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter, etc. could have all had completely unique move sets of their own. And they could have. After all, there are many unique traits and abilities ignored in service of making them into clones and for any gaps it's not like we don't have mostly or completely made-up kits for characters like Fox or Captain Falcon.

All that is true, but they're still clones anyway. Not because they can't be unique, but because they could reasonably be made less so. Clones exist to squeeze a little more out of the assets you've already got without spending too much more time or additional resources. When cloning enters the equation, source accuracy loses some of its priority.

Characters who you might not think of as potential clones might be seen differently in the eyes of a developer. In a scenario where they're looking to get that extra squeeze you may wind up with situations that feel off to you (Falcondorf back in Melee for example, was that for a lot of people and still is to this day). It's just a matter of if the circumstances align.

Taking a look at cartoons and comics now, you'll see plenty of examples of "derivative" or "samey" characters and ideas just as often as you would in games. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing either, just pointing out that this lack of "uniqueness" isn't unique to video games.

You don't need to look hard; Hawkeye and Green Arrow, Superman/Omniman/Homelander, the many Hanna-Barbera Mystery Inc. clones etc.

I'll even include Wile E. as a candidate for a Bugs clone/semi-clone here as an example. Do I think he should be? No, of course not, but under the circumstances of "we need a Bugs clone (and Lola is off the table for whatever reason,)" you can make it work. Close enough body structure. Close enough cartoon antics. He's absolutely not as suitable for this role, but with some creativity and creative liberty (and probably some necessary changes hence the semi and not full-on clone) a dev looking for an extra character to squeeze could make do with something like that.

Going back to Lola, she could absolutely be unique, but they could also take the clone route just as easily if they felt so inclined. And not just as a LeBron clone either, I think a Bugs clone would be the more obvious path of least resistance. Particularly if they go with the LTS version. Much closer body structure and a much zanier personality that would feel at right at home doing a lot of Bug's classic Looney Tunes antics.

Overall, I do agree that making that automatic assumption and holding it up as the only option is flawed, but to say that the logic can't or shouldn't be applied is also flawed. All fictional characters regardless of medium/origin are malleable and open to new interpretations when in the hands of different artists/devs. Mileage will vary depending on what/how much you change (especially with more well-established characters,) but there's always multiple routes to be taken.

That did wind up being a bit long, sorry for the text wall.

I’m not saying video game characters are less unique. I agree that there is no reason for Ganondorf, Daisy, Roy etc to be clones (hell, I don’t even think Lucina should be a clone). But I’m saying that there is a difference in design philosophies between how platform fighters go about adapting video game characters vs how they adapt cartoon characters.
Video game characters are more likely to be adapted from aspects of their games more than they are their personalities. That sort of thing can happen and does, but mostly you get stuff like Palutena using Pit’s moves in KI:U that aren’t covered by Pit’s moveset.
I would argue that cases like Daisy are Sakurai pulling his own version of the Bugs/Lola issue. She used to be a Peach recolor so that apparently justifies treating her like that’s still the case now.

 

[Faso115]

I think the general poor reception is due to the general impression that the game is gonna shut down soon, where we have no strong evidence other than the WB report, which is really bad but not a death sentence. MVS still has at least two more seasons in it IMO and prob can even pull through to the end of the year,

Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)

 

[LimeTH]

I think the general poor reception is due to the general impression that the game is gonna shut down soon, where we have no strong evidence other than the WB report, which is really bad but not a death sentence. MVS still has at least two more seasons in it IMO and prob can even pull through to the end of the year,

Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)

US East Coast here. The only time I ever have trouble getting matches is when I try to hop on Arena mode. Otherwise, it's almost always fast.

 

[Kirbeh]

Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)

East Coast US. Depends on the mode (and time of day sometimes.)

Casual modes usually under a minute and not more than 3. Sometimes as fast as 20-30 secs but I find that these tend to be the ones that DC or crash before the match starts.

Ranked, at least a minute and upwards of 5 minutes on some days.

Haven't played since Raven dropped though so I can't comment on Arena as I didn't try it.

 

[SneakyLink]

Haven't played since Raven dropped though so I can't comment on Arena as I didn't try it.

For Arena it varied. Sometimes it would take at least a minute. Other times I would requeue if it was taking 5 minutes.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I’m in the western US and I play mostly unranked 2v2, and finding a game usually takes about 30-60 seconds. I sometimes have a hard time finding people for Wacky Weekend specifically, though. It feels like FFA is a lot easier to find people for.

I wonder how many people actually spend money, since that’s ultimately more important to WB than just the playercount.

I personally haven’t had a need to spend any real money since the full game came out (I think I have enough free gleamium right now to buy one of the 2K gleamium skins if I want to and still afford the next battlepass, although I’m mainly waiting for if Reunited Garnet goes on sale, even though I can afford it for free without the sale.) Maybe I would’ve spent Gleamium on Unicorndog, but then they put it in the battlepass and so I got it for free. None of the characters so far have made me impatient enough to want to buy them immediately instead of waiting 3 days for them to be free, either.

 

[MBRedboy31]

How are shields treating you now that they’ve been out for a while? I found the input to be super weird at first but now shielding attacks feels pretty natural after some practice.

The issue I’m running into now is that, since I play mostly unranked 2v2s and only a small portion of the enemies I face use shields, I don’t get a lot of practice with dealing with opponents’ shields, so when I do run into someone who uses them correctly it’s a bit of a struggle.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I feel about the same. Shields are an unfitting, out of place and lazy band-aid solution that failed to address the core problems with this game. Instead introducing new ones since shields are buggy, clunky and not tested properly with very weird and unreliable counterplay. Shoved in far too soon and just turned more people away lmao.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I feel about the same. Shields are an unfitting, out of place and lazy band-aid solution that failed to address the core problems with this game. Instead introducing new ones since shields are buggy, clunky and not tested properly with very weird and unreliable counterplay. Shoved in far too soon and just turned more people away lmao.

All I said is that shields feel fine for me to use now after some practice, but people aren’t giving me enough practice with performing safe shield pressure and shield breakers. That’s kinda more of an issue with the players than with shields themselves, although it could also be an issue with tutorialization. I’m not sure where they’d best put a shields tutorial. One of the fights in the Marceline rift is intended to tutorialize shield breakers (the Shaggy AI holds shield for a long time and the game tells you to shield breaker,) but I can’t imagine most players stumbling across that, especially after the season ends.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

In general I'd say the game has a tutorial problem, they're genuinely awful in current state.

 

[SneakyLink]

In general I'd say the game has a tutorial problem, they're genuinely awful in current state.

I think the beta had a better tutorial than the full release.

Sure it wasn’t the best, but it did attempt to explain some of the various status effects (I distinctly remember there being a pert that taught the freeze effect).

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

All I said is that shields feel fine for me to use now after some practice, but people aren’t giving me enough practice with performing safe shield pressure and shield breakers. That’s kinda more of an issue with the players than with shields themselves, although it could also be an issue with tutorialization. I’m not sure where they’d best put a shields tutorial. One of the fights in the Marceline rift is intended to tutorialize shield breakers (the Shaggy AI holds shield for a long time and the game tells you to shield breaker,) but I can’t imagine most players stumbling across that, especially after the season ends.

When I said "feel about the same" I meant that I feel the same as I felt before. Shields were way too late to add and requires an effective retool of every single move in the game (effort that needed to go elsewhere) and brought so many new issues that a majority of players clearly aren't willing to put up with lol.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I've been stewing on these thoughts for a long time but I'm just gonna come right out and say it I really don't like Multiversus' approach to moveset design and I really only think about 7 or 8 characters are actually well designed for a platform fighter. I would rather have functional movesets without a bunch of extra bells and whistles. I'd gladly take more generic moves over shoving in a reference for every attack. If you can do both, that's great, but I wish they'd strike a better balance. A lot of the earlier characters are especially egregious about this.

 

[ivanlerma]

x.com

x.com

 

[Kirbeh]

Divisive as it would probably be, I wonder how viable it would be to pull MVS offline and rework it again, and then release the new version under new branding with a set roster of base fighters at no cost and a less predatory monetization system (unlikely under WB, but one can dream.)

It's pretty clear that the game wasn't ready for it's relaunch and to this day it still feels like an experimental WIP that's held together by duct tape and dreams.

 

[Faso115]

I don't get why MVS gets compared to Marvel Rivals at all. Is it because of the roster? Unfortunately i don't see them letting the whole roster be free.

But i would probably make the original 15 characters (all from the first alpha) be free as a start, then probably bundle other characters in groups of 3 to be unlocked if they were part of the beta.

Or same idea but with all the beta characters

 

[LimeTH]

I don't get why MVS gets compared to Marvel Rivals at all. Is it because of the roster? Unfortunately i don't see them letting the whole roster be free.

I'd bet it's only because one has DC superheroes and the other has Marvel superheroes.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'd bet it's only because one has DC superheroes and the other has Marvel superheroes.

I think it's far more likely because they're both F2P games...

Reagrdless not a one-to-one comparison, but some overlap is definitely there. Granted, I don't know what people are actually comparing (don't use social media,) but I'd definitely say Rivals had a better launch and better monetization model.

 

[LimeTH]

I think it's far more likely because they're both F2P games...

Reagrdless not a one-to-one comparison, but some overlap is definitely there. Granted, I don't know what people are actually comparing (don't use social media,) but I'd definitely say Rivals had a better launch and better monetization model.

It being a F2P game is definitely part of it, but the two aren't even the same genre. Comparing how each uses competing rosters of superheroes (and more excuses to kick MVS while it's supposedly down) is definitely why they're being put against each other at all.

 

[Kirbeh]

It being a F2P game is definitely part of it, but the two aren't even the same genre. Comparing how each uses competing rosters of superheroes (and more excuses to kick MVS while it's supposedly down) is definitely why they're being put against each other at all.

The differing genres isn't necessarily an issue when discussing the games' progression, monetization or optimization, but comparing the two for simply having superheroes is asinine. The latter isn't important at all, it's all the former stuff that are the source of the actual problems in MVS (or any F2P game really.)

That aside, the comparison seems largely unnecessary to begin with. People have been complaining about MVS for months already and it hardly needs the comparison to be criticized.

I don't agree with the dogpiling/kicking MVS while it's down thing, but I do personally think most of the criticisms leveled against it are valid. I don't condone the toxicity, but the criticisms presented reasonably are more than welcome.

 

[Opossum]

I don't get why MVS gets compared to Marvel Rivals at all. Is it because of the roster? Unfortunately i don't see them letting the whole roster be free.

They're both free to play multiplayer games from two of the biggest media IP conglomerates on earth, but one of the two is far more consumer friendly.

Marvel Rivals launched with a roster of 33 characters and every single one of them is free, and every new addition will continue to be free. As far as the general public is concerned, the difference in genre absolutely doesn't matter here because of the sheer difference in value. When you compare it to Multiversus having a roster of 33 at the moment and literally only Shaggy being usable in all modes at the start, the cracks really start to show.

Value really is the name of the game when it comes to live service games. People don't have enough time in the day to play all of them, so they'll choose. And if they see one game giving a SIGNIFICANTLY better value than another, that's the one they'll opt for. It doesn't matter whether they're the same genre of game when, at the end of the day, they're the same type of game from a monetization perspective.

One immediate example off the top of my head is actually how Multiversus handled The Batman Who Laughs vs how Marvel Rivals handled The Maker. Both are popular (or I guess more infamous in the case of the former) alternate versions of well established characters who joined their respective game as a skin for a newly released character (Joker and Mr. Fantastic, obviously). The Batman Who Laughs launched in Multiversus as an incredibly overpriced skin that required way too many hours of grinding to get. Conversely, the Maker skin was treated as any other non-MCU skin (by which I mean it was one of the cheaper ones since there was no MCU tax lol). That's showing respect for your playerbase's time and money, something which Multiversus has infamously failed to do.

There are also the other far reaching issues like Multiversus having what seems to be far more corporate meddling, a far more inexperienced team, and the game itself not being nearly as strong as Marvel Rivals as far as the servers, the balance, or even the general gameplay, but above all, comparing the two is a showcase of Respecting the Player vs Disrespecting the Player.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

To be completely honest, it's not even just Multiversus that's getting compared to Marvel Rivals; Rivals is currently putting every live service game to shame with consumer friendliness. We'll have to see if that lasts, but it's no big surprise that people like not being treated as a cash cow and feeling appreciated as a player. They're more likely to spend on a game that respects their time and doesn't show preferential treatment to people who spend vs. those who don't. The only one even remotely close in the conversation is Fortnite.

 

[Faso115]

Good points, honestly i completely agree that Marvel Rivals is kicking the butt of every single live service right now, and MVS deserves flak for the stupid grind imposed for basically anything.

But its also weirdly generous sometimes. So like it wants you to force to fork cash but also every BP pays for itself and earning gleemium is not super difficult if you know how to farm events.

Honestly the hoops you gotta get throught to actually enjoy the cosmetic side of MVS puts a huge damper on any potential attention from the internet. I still think the game has at least 2 seasons more to live, so im not throwing the towel yet with it, but all these "early access", double BP and trial period BS is really starting to get annoying, especially when other games are less grindy even if not as generous

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Problem with Marvel Rivals is that its TOO generous. That is not sustainable for free games. Marvel Rivals came out at all because it's funneled by a massive company, specifically a company that was willing to take this boneheaded risk. The instant Rivals loses players for any reason, all the budget and effort will bite it in its ass lmao, it'll be a massive loss for the company if it isn't a loss already.

Divisive as it would probably be, I wonder how viable it would be to pull MVS offline and rework it again, and then release the new version under new branding with a set roster of base fighters at no cost and a less predatory monetization system (unlikely under WB, but one can dream.)

It's pretty clear that the game wasn't ready for it's relaunch and to this day it still feels like an experimental WIP that's held together by duct tape and dreams.

Dead on arrival. MVS lost all its momentum and goodwill with a relaunch. Trying to take it down again will be even stupider and kill the game all over again. The best shot it has is for the devs to actually listen to the community and finally put in requested fixes/additions.

 

[MBRedboy31]

For me, as someone who has all the characters unlocked, the monetization isn't too bad. Each new character is just a few hours of grinding once a month, I can get a decent free skin for most of the cast from events, and I also get enough free Gleamium for the occasional skin I really really want.

But, I can only really say that as someone who already has all the characters. I would not want to be a new player in this system. Having lots of characters to choose from makes grinding way more fun, while new players are stuck with Shaggy, the weekly rotation characters, and whoever else they've unlocked so far. Plus, new players can't enjoy most of those free skins if they don't even have the right character for them. Marvel Rivals is so much more new player friendly so I can't blame people for preferring it.

 

[Kirbeh]

I would not want to be a new player in this system.

And there it is. This says it all.

MVS is stuck doing the extremely limited, experimental F2P grind fests that feel like PS3 era Namco, with titles like Tekken Revolution or Soul Calibur: Lost Swords.

It's less friendly than most gacha games while having arguably worse monetization.

How are they supposed to retain new players if every system in place is designed to push them away?

It's been said plenty here and likely everywhere else people talk about MVS, but they need to make the game better for new players if they want to have any player retention. Right now, it's a battle to keep the existing player base, and it's a fight that they're going to lose if things continue as they are.

Can't believe I'm saying this but maybe borrow a page from gacha games. Hold events with lots of freebies to jump start new accounts. Do the whole "welcome back!" bonus thing for returning players. Update the game into a more functional state.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I think it'd at least help a bit if they had more opportunities to earn fighter currency that lets you skip ahead in the Fighter Road so new players who want a specific character have something to grind for that doesn't feel a million miles away.

(Minor thing, but I'd like if fighter currency were converted into "character tickets," with each 3k fighter currency becoming 1 ticket and new characters costing 2 tickets once they leave early access. Existing character tickets from the founder's bundles would be rebranded as "super character tickets" or something like that and would retain their current functionality. Legacy fighter currency is really clunky right now so I'd appreciate this.)

They could put one character's worth in the battlepass to encourage people to buy it, or maybe they could make some kind of reasonable bundle deal to ease new players in. Maybe you could buy 5 or so [character currency] for like 8 dollars, one time only? I can see a lot of people going for that as it'd let you grab your favorite characters without it instantly giving away most of the roster. And then, those players might buy skins, ect.

 

[Megadoomer]

For the past week or so, whenever I've tried to play any online games in Multiversus, it doesn't even seem to search for them; it just says "Matchmaking failed" after a few seconds. The rest of the game works fine, so it doesn't seem to be a problem with my internet connection; it just stopped working all of a sudden. I've tried uninstalling the game and reinstalling it, but that didn't fix it. I was wondering if anyone else was having that problem and what could be done.

I've been playing rift matches instead; I'm enjoying what I've played of Raven and Marceline so far. I'm not familiar with Adventure Time, though I'm tempted to watch it; what little I've seen of it seems like fun. (I haven't seen the Teen Titans cartoon either, though I have read the Wolfman/Perez run that a lot of Titans material seems to take inspiration from)

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not familiar with Adventure Time, though I'm tempted to watch it; what little I've seen of it seems like fun.

you’re in for a shock

 

[LimeTH]

For the past week or so, whenever I've tried to play any online games in Multiversus, it doesn't even seem to search for them; it just says "Matchmaking failed" after a few seconds. The rest of the game works fine, so it doesn't seem to be a problem with my internet connection; it just stopped working all of a sudden. I've tried uninstalling the game and reinstalling it, but that didn't fix it. I was wondering if anyone else was having that problem and what could be done.

I've been playing rift matches instead; I'm enjoying what I've played of Raven and Marceline so far. I'm not familiar with Adventure Time, though I'm tempted to watch it; what little I've seen of it seems like fun. (I haven't seen the Teen Titans cartoon either, though I have read the Wolfman/Perez run that a lot of Titans material seems to take inspiration from)

Strange, I haven’t had any trouble getting matches myself.

Adventure Time and Teen Titans 03 are both very good. Give them a shot.

 

[SneakyLink]

Maintenance tomorrow at 9am PST.

And I’m gonna echo what has been said on Adventure Time and Teen Titans 03. Watch them, both are good shows.

 

[SneakyLink]

Double posting to explain how the Rogue Rift works:

5 attempts per day, all difficulties available. Note that you cannot buy extra attempts and must wait out the timer. Upon completion you receive chests that can contain Battle Pass XP, Fighter Road XP, or Perk Currency, with a chance at obtaining a Jason variant. Higher difficulties have a better chance at getting the variant, with the percentage going higher for successful runs.

There are only 5 matches per run. At the start, you pick a modifier for the battle, then move on to the next. Modifiers stack and remain until the run ends. Completing all battles counts as a attempt, as does changing difficulties. For those attempting this, I recommend sticking to one difficulty. Lives and damage persist between battles.

Finally, note that you can join a friend and help them complete the rift even if you are out of attempts for the day. However, you can only get rewards if you are the host.

 

[Faso115]

Honestly, not that bad. I thought it was gonna be grindy as hell but on insanity it was bearable.

So like, cool. I only did one run on Insanity, gonna do a couple more later and see what i get

 

[SneakyLink]

Quick patch notes

Only fighters changed are Marceline, Marvin, and the PPG.

 

[Opossum]

Quick patch notes

Only fighters changed are Marceline, Marvin, and the PPG.

It's honestly funny that this mini-patch is basically just "nerf Marceline, remove Yet Another PPG Zero-to-Death, and...fix a Marvin visual bug."

 

[MBRedboy31]

I see that the Marceline down special spam will continue.

 

[LimeTH]

Honestly, not that bad. I thought it was gonna be grindy as hell but on insanity it was bearable.

So like, cool. I only did one run on Insanity, gonna do a couple more later and see what i get

Yeah, it's not bad at all. Hell, I got the Jason skin on only my second attempt.

 

[SneakyLink]

Yeah, it's not bad at all. Hell, I got the Jason skin on only my second attempt.

Congrats.

My plan is to stick to the middle difficulty until I get it, since that pays out 3 chests and increases the odds by 1%. Thus I should guarantee the skin by the end.

 

[LimeTH]

If you can, stock up on helpers. Toasty, the drone and Watermelon Steven can all be stacked and any 2v2 partners you get will get one of each as well. If you can get all three, and get partnered up, it’s like you got your own army.