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MultiVersus General Discussion

skylanders fan

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KyleWussler
I like this pick if it’s true. Of course I want Daffy and other looney tunes characters but I think a lot of people are afraid of the game ending and not getting the big characters that are missing. Im just hopeful with this pick they are confident they can get those characters later
 

LimeTH

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
2,059
I understand the flaw in the logic of "bunny from Looney Tunes = must be a Bugs clone." I agree that that's silly, I said exactly that in my first reply after all.

I still don't follow the logic on the "video game characters are inherently less unique" deal though. I feel like you're being dismissive of that medium for the sake of your argument.

In addition, while again, I think it's flawed to automatically assume a character like Lola (or any character really) should be a clone, any character, regardless of medium aren't precluded from this.

Even looking at characters like Luigi and Shadow who are deliberately similar in their source material or even clones/echoes in Smash itself like Roy/Chrom, etc. you can make the same argument in either direction. From the onset, you could say Roy had no business being a Marth clone or Chrom one of Roy. You could argue that Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter, etc. could have all had completely unique move sets of their own. And they could have. After all, there are many unique traits and abilities ignored in service of making them into clones and for any gaps it's not like we don't have mostly or completely made-up kits for characters like Fox or Captain Falcon.

All that is true, but they're still clones anyway. Not because they can't be unique, but because they could reasonably be made less so. Clones exist to squeeze a little more out of the assets you've already got without spending too much more time or additional resources. When cloning enters the equation, source accuracy loses some of its priority.

Characters who you might not think of as potential clones might be seen differently in the eyes of a developer. In a scenario where they're looking to get that extra squeeze you may wind up with situations that feel off to you (Falcondorf back in Melee for example, was that for a lot of people and still is to this day). It's just a matter of if the circumstances align.

Taking a look at cartoons and comics now, you'll see plenty of examples of "derivative" or "samey" characters and ideas just as often as you would in games. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing either, just pointing out that this lack of "uniqueness" isn't unique to video games.

You don't need to look hard; Hawkeye and Green Arrow, Superman/Omniman/Homelander, the many Hanna-Barbera Mystery Inc. clones etc.

I'll even include Wile E. as a candidate for a Bugs clone/semi-clone here as an example. Do I think he should be? No, of course not, but under the circumstances of "we need a Bugs clone (and Lola is off the table for whatever reason,)" you can make it work. Close enough body structure. Close enough cartoon antics. He's absolutely not as suitable for this role, but with some creativity and creative liberty (and probably some necessary changes hence the semi and not full-on clone) a dev looking for an extra character to squeeze could make do with something like that.

Going back to Lola, she could absolutely be unique, but they could also take the clone route just as easily if they felt so inclined. And not just as a LeBron clone either, I think a Bugs clone would be the more obvious path of least resistance. Particularly if they go with the LTS version. Much closer body structure and a much zanier personality that would feel at right at home doing a lot of Bug's classic Looney Tunes antics.

Overall, I do agree that making that automatic assumption and holding it up as the only option is flawed, but to say that the logic can't or shouldn't be applied is also flawed. All fictional characters regardless of medium/origin are malleable and open to new interpretations when in the hands of different artists/devs. Mileage will vary depending on what/how much you change (especially with more well-established characters,) but there's always multiple routes to be taken.

That did wind up being a bit long, sorry for the text wall.
I’m not saying video game characters are less unique. I agree that there is no reason for Ganondorf, Daisy, Roy etc to be clones (hell, I don’t even think Lucina should be a clone). But I’m saying that there is a difference in design philosophies between how platform fighters go about adapting video game characters vs how they adapt cartoon characters.
Video game characters are more likely to be adapted from aspects of their games more than they are their personalities. That sort of thing can happen and does, but mostly you get stuff like Palutena using Pit’s moves in KI:U that aren’t covered by Pit’s moveset.
I would argue that cases like Daisy are Sakurai pulling his own version of the Bugs/Lola issue. She used to be a Peach recolor so that apparently justifies treating her like that’s still the case now.
 

Faso115

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,462
I think the general poor reception is due to the general impression that the game is gonna shut down soon, where we have no strong evidence other than the WB report, which is really bad but not a death sentence. MVS still has at least two more seasons in it IMO and prob can even pull through to the end of the year,

Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)
 

LimeTH

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
2,059
I think the general poor reception is due to the general impression that the game is gonna shut down soon, where we have no strong evidence other than the WB report, which is really bad but not a death sentence. MVS still has at least two more seasons in it IMO and prob can even pull through to the end of the year,

Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)
US East Coast here. The only time I ever have trouble getting matches is when I try to hop on Arena mode. Otherwise, it's almost always fast.
 

Kirbeh

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
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2,508
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Somewhere Else
Switch FC
SW-7469-4510-7312
Here's a question for you guys: how long does it take for you to find a match? Because my queues are actually very fast for regular modes so i don't get the impression that the game is dying. And if you ask, im from the LATAM region (apparently the game is pretty popular here?)
East Coast US. Depends on the mode (and time of day sometimes.)

Casual modes usually under a minute and not more than 3. Sometimes as fast as 20-30 secs but I find that these tend to be the ones that DC or crash before the match starts.

Ranked, at least a minute and upwards of 5 minutes on some days.

Haven't played since Raven dropped though so I can't comment on Arena as I didn't try it.
 

MBRedboy31

Smash Lord
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
1,611
I’m in the western US and I play mostly unranked 2v2, and finding a game usually takes about 30-60 seconds. I sometimes have a hard time finding people for Wacky Weekend specifically, though. It feels like FFA is a lot easier to find people for.

I wonder how many people actually spend money, since that’s ultimately more important to WB than just the playercount.

I personally haven’t had a need to spend any real money since the full game came out (I think I have enough free gleamium right now to buy one of the 2K gleamium skins if I want to and still afford the next battlepass, although I’m mainly waiting for if Reunited Garnet goes on sale, even though I can afford it for free without the sale.) Maybe I would’ve spent Gleamium on Unicorndog, but then they put it in the battlepass and so I got it for free. None of the characters so far have made me impatient enough to want to buy them immediately instead of waiting 3 days for them to be free, either.
 
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