*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar

[o0 DR3W 0o]

Are you going to put summaries of each like some of the other character matchup threads? It'd be hella convenient.

 

[Orion*]

LOL Snakeee, this game isn't about one player waiting for other playing to do something and react to it. This game is about both players expecting something to happen.

You're theorycrafting hardcore instead of taking mixup game into account...

no. its literally just reaction time. >_>

like, you can just powershield her ****, its actually pathetic. MKs not even her biggest threat though so w/e

Point is that high level gamers develop a good reaction time. If we assume someone in the range of the above, and go to ZSS frame data (20 frames dsmash, 22/31 sideb, 16 grab) we see that someone who knows where the shield button is, can go a long way against zero suit.

no. they dont develop reaction TIME. that doesnt really change that much, what they develop is better reactions. just because you have a good reaction time, doesnt mean you will be able to use the correct option once you realize its coming.

you think ally like sees m2k nair him below the stage and everything goes slow motion in his brain so he can magically jump tech that ****? NO
hes like, oh im under the stage.... **** im about to get naired im going to get ready to tech

the more you play the game the more you realize what your options are, and what your opponents are. that way you instinctively can tell whats going to happen, by picking the best option when you get hit. this is different from pure reaction time. if you know youre going to get hit you should always be able to tech things\\

I will quite literally take any side bet on my brother against Riddle up to $1K

ill do a dollar. just because if you lose i want to rub it in your face LOL.

 

[SSSnake]

ic is the worst. i hates it when i face them. HATES IT!
if you get the wrong guy, you pretty much jusy wasted
your time. since both falco's lasers and chain grabs only
hit one person, so you better hit the popo or else youll just
have to KO the popo, wich can actually be pretty annoying
since they have good projectiles when there being pursued
by the legendary baker.

 

[swordsaint]

I think that when a MU has been discussed in one of Denzi's 'weekly' match up threads, and a ratio has been decided on, it should be locked. Any further input or questions should be presented in this here main thread, so as to avoid dumb crap like in the Wario one atm.

 

[Denzi]

That'd definitely be something to consider.

 

[Shugo-Chan]

The most random arguements are found in the most random threads oO geez.

Also, shouldn't falco vs diddy be like 50:50? Diddy has a lot of side b pressure options and can bait him really well too. iono just my opinion, and ic's vs falco is only 45:55? o: I don't look up too much MU info, but it seems more like 60:40 ic's to me.

 

[Denzi]

Also, shouldn't falco vs diddy be like 50:50? Diddy has a lot of side b pressure options and can bait him really well too. iono just my opinion, and ic's vs falco is only 45:55? o: I don't look up too much MU info, but it seems more like 60:40 ic's to me.

Lasers kill Side B, We can CG him, and we have a solid kill option in Glidetoss -> usmash. And you have to know how to DI his Dash Attack.

Vs IC's, I think it has something to do with the fact that we can 0-death them too (albeit situationaly). I don't 100% understand the ration either, but Lain and Larry (best ICs and Falco) go last hit last stock when they play, so you could try asking one of them.

 

[Conviction]

What's your guys opinion on the DK vs Falco MU?

Also, I'm defending the spacy honor lol. http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=1439768#p1439768

 

[swordsaint]

60:40 Falco.

Falco camps DK like a mofo. Lol at big targets. His speed of his jabs and tilts just shut down DK, and his cgs put on a superb amount of damage. DK just has trouble defending against Falco's strengths, but because of Dk's ability to space with ftilt and dtilt, high damage dealing potential and powerful kill moves, it is still winnable for DK hence it only being 60:40. DK being a large character also means we'll shield poke really nice with Nair.

 

[Conviction]

I could of swore it would have been higher.

I'm just having a hard time believing that DK doesn't have a harder time fighting Falco than Fox. But you main Falco.

 

[Max Ketchum]

DK vs. Falco is 20-80 Falco.

 

[Conviction]

DK vs. Falco is 20-80 Falco.

LOL What??

 

[D1]

I was training w/ Bum yesterday and for the most part I collected all the data I need for DK vs. Falco.

If I'm missing anything you can fill me in.

From zero if you CG DK when he's @ 37% instead of going for a dair do one more dthrow and then dair him....bad DK's will allow you to get the footstool afterwards...Bum double jumps and upBs immediately in an effort to stage spike me.

Whenever I'm in ftilt range I throw out a jab in an effort to clash w/ the ftilt and get inside. Once I'm in dtilt range I spam jab cancels till I see a shield and go for a mixup -OR- I try to PS one dtilt and get a grab.

Whenever DK bairs my shield and I'm facing forward I go for nairs to punish oos. If my back is turned I shoot for a bair immediately. Also when DK goes for an obvious bair double high laser shut those sh**s down close range.

If a DK notices you shield his bair attempts too much he may opt for an aerial forward B which can eat your shield. To avoid this the moment you see the slight pause for the f.B animation usmash. (I know you guys may say you don't wanna waste your usmash, but you can refresh 'em w/ lasers and jabs anyway no johns.



Oh yeah! When you're airborne vs. DK don't try to challenge his uair...that sh** is tough and fast as hell. His grab range is also hella beast...so make sure your spacing is on point.

Know the range of DK's fsmash cuz alotta DK's like throw it out especially if their opponent's back is to the stage.

Also since alot of ppl love to attack opponents that ledgehop back on stage...DK's w/ a charge punch go for the punch most of the time to thwart that.

One DK named Will I know, goes for B reversaled charged punches if you try to approach him when he has it. Be wary of those when you fight DK's.

DK's like Snake when it comes to living hella long...so be sure to have your kill moves fresh.

I think everything else when it comes to camping DK and whanot has been covered.

Oh yeah last thing. Whenever a DK goes for a d.B ground pound...just IAP over that sh** WE FLY HIGH BABY! IAPing a DK thats charging a Punch from across the stage to a kill move is sex.

 

[swordsaint]

Even with all these positives, DK's damage racking ability + dsmash still keeps him in the game.

 

[Conviction]

Dsmash is easy to DI and momentum cancel though.

 

[D1]

Even with all these positives, DK's damage racking ability + dsmash still keeps him in the game.

True.

Just don't get hit.

 

[Viperdev]

Donkey punch is also nothing to joke around with either

 

[Conviction]

Ok thanks for informing Falcos.

 

[swordsaint]

I'm talking about DK's Dsmash Iblis. It's powerful.

 

[Conviction]

I know. Can't you just DI it to the side (which send you in a diagonal direction) and live longer than ummm 90%?

 

[swordsaint]

Depends on where it hits Falco and what side of the Dsmash hit you.

 

[Max Ketchum]

I'm not joking. The matchup is awful. Most Falcos are just incredibly poor at the matchup. I'm known in my region for my prowess against DK. The only thing DK has against Falco is tricks and reads. Almost every Falco is really REALLY predictable with side B/spot dodge/rolls, and DK punishes super hard. The matchup is really just jabs, laser, and the occasional nair, bair, or utilt.

Ban Yoshi's and pick MK on Brinstar. Bam, DK loses.

 

[SSSnake]

i find the dk falco matchup very complicated. falco can
do some pretty good moves on dk, but dk can punish
with his pawnch as it is very powerful, and there are
plenty of good times to use it against falco. his d-samsh
is also a good move against falco, so yeah he has very
awful punishments on falco.

 

[M@v]

falco dk is 65:35 falco. I feel bad for dks when i play them. There's literally nothing the poor ape can do against our lasers. And if he gets grabbed he is in deep ****.

 

[SSSnake]

yeah. the ape may have strength, but when he cant hit the foe, well if you cant hit the foe youll die

 

[erick gm14]

I'm not joking. The matchup is awful. Most Falcos are just incredibly poor at the matchup. I'm known in my region for my prowess against DK. The only thing DK has against Falco is tricks and reads. Almost every Falco is really REALLY predictable with side B/spot dodge/rolls, and DK punishes super hard. The matchup is really just jabs, laser, and the occasional nair, bair, or utilt.

Ban Yoshi's and pick MK on Brinstar. Bam, DK loses.

haha, u dont play cable every day do ya? lol, this is one of my most exp MUs, i can say this it is, well, 65-35 or 7-3. like D1 says, dont get hit, by stupid ****. also Doom u dont need to ban YI. Will Cpd me there and i beat him in a mm. (VERY lucky though). but YI is manageable for falco. ban Brinstar is the best choice. just like doom says, dont be predictable and u can win, the MU is patience and a long one since u have to camp DK considerably to just beat him. Cable knows some of my habits, but its been a while since we played. CABLE!! NAME SEARCH THIS U MO FO!!

ok, just read D1s stuff on last page, he got it down.(respectively)

 

[Max Ketchum]

lol, if you got lucky there to beat him, wouldn't you say it isn't such a good stage? Even without DK's invincibility **** on there, the stage is generally pretty bad in the matchup anyway, the large platform makes it easier for DK to juggle Falco since a majority of his moves hit at the level of the platform's height.

I don't need to play Cable every day to know that it's a really bad matchup.

 

[ksizl4life]

haha, u dont play cable every day do ya? lol, this is one of my most exp MUs, i can say this it is, well, 65-35 or 7-3. like D1 says, dont get hit, by stupid ****. also Doom u dont need to ban YI. Will Cpd me there and i beat him in a mm. (VERY lucky though). but YI is manageable for falco. ban Brinstar is the best choice. just like doom says, dont be predictable and u can win, the MU is patience and a long one since u have to camp DK considerably to just beat him. Cable knows some of my habits, but its been a while since we played. CABLE!! NAME SEARCH THIS U MO FO!!

ok, just read D1s stuff on last page, he got it down.(respectively)

you dont play cable everyday either.

yes this matchup is bad. worse than mk vs dk imo. dehf vs cable friendlies at pound were not pretty.

 

[erick gm14]

well not everyday, thats weird >_>, probs sept i stopped seeing u guys. anyways, we were bak n forth, but the MU is 65-35 imo. prob 7-3. just saying. i wonder how i fare against him now..also, he wants to team with me again!! DK/Falco, good team?? =3

@Doom, obviously its bad, wen i first played cable i felt bad 4 DK. *sigh* im just saying i kno first-hand how the MU goes.

 

[Ray Robo]

When I play DK i camp to force an approach. Then i either PS or sheild grab to start off my CG because DK's size is his problem in this MU. We can camp this poor ape to death and our CG is also very effective with the Dair,DACUS, and Dash to Usmash finishes.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I'm not arguing that this match isn't in our favor because it is. But getting the kill on DK can be a pain. He can very well live past 200 because of how heavy he is. And the thing is despite the fact we rack up the damage very quickly on him (giant target + spammable projectile = free %) we still have to work for the kill. At high percents we can still make him approach but we have to be extremely careful of when we attack. His range is ******** and he kills us retardedly easy.

I've personally found from playing many a DK that DK has two weak points: Below him and 45 degrees in front of him. Closing in with Nair has helped me a bit.

SHFF Nair> Jab> Grab> BDacus is legit around kill range.

Lasers > Dacus\BDacus also help.

I like this matchup but be careful. Your mistakes are exagerrated immensely here. Worse than vs Snake.

This is 65-35 at best for us.

Also when are discussing the next character. Let's keep it going.

 

[Max Ketchum]

65-35 at worst probably lol

DK is bad, the DK players are just very talented and the Falcos are stupid.

You don't have to work for the kill. Trying that will make you get *****. When you see him at high percents, don't change your playstyle. Get him to 220 and kill with dash attack if you have to. Up tilt around 185 (nair -> up tilt works really well), bair at 170, or ftilt at 200 if you have to. Just play vs. him, don't try to kill.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

While I agree that it takes more work to main DK in a competitive setting than Falco your statement that Falcos are bad is funny. If a Falco were to fail at this matchup it means they probably don't know it. DKs aren't exactly abundant.
Still your probably right about its smarter not to work for the kill.

 

[Cloud9157]

Can't force the kill against heavyweights imo. Good DI has them living forever vs Falco.

Just keep camping DK and going for grabs if the oppurtunity is there. Utilt is godly as mentioned.

 

[SSSnake]

u-smash, f-smash,d-smash,dair(spike),utilt. the onlt things to kill a di dk. bair is good though.

 

[Max Ketchum]

When did I say the Falcos are bad? I said they're stupid. Lots of mid-level Falcos develop awful spot dodge, roll, and side B habits because they live in weaker regions or only play wifi, resulting in them not being punished for their actions and/or never having the opportunity to learn to fix them.

I understand the lack of DKs, it's very reasonable to say that. However, even the most basic of Falco styles hard-counters the character. If you guys stopped fiending for kills, the matchup would be cake.

 

[clowsui]

agreeing w/ doom here

game 1 in pools of a tourney i went to i played aZ's DK...he took two stocks and then i realized, why try to aggressively hit him when i can just laser and space side b? i proceeded to win last stock 40% (didn't pay attention because i was too humored lol)

 

[SSSnake]

When did I say the Falcos are bad? I said they're stupid. Lots of mid-level Falcos develop awful spot dodge, roll, and side B habits because they live in weaker regions or only play wifi, resulting in them not being punished for their actions and/or never having the opportunity to learn to fix them.

I understand the lack of DKs, it's very reasonable to say that. However, even the most basic of Falco styles hard-counters the character. If you guys stopped fiending for kills, the matchup would be cake.

we fiend for more than just kills. at the moment there was a subject on how to ko him, there is much more to discuss.

 

[Cloud9157]

Edgeguarding sounds important for Falco.

Does Bair beat Spinning Kong? If it doesn't, we can still use Reflector to knock him a bit lower so that he can't recover.

So: Fall off stage and reflector as you jump back on sounds aight to me.

How does Dk even go about playing Falco? If you play as stupid as possible, Lasers+Phantasm sounds like it gives Falco a HUGE advantage.

 

[SSSnake]

i think that bair may be able to beat spinnind kong, but you will have to start at a range far enough that only its 7% (sex kick) will hit dk, but if they are at high enough damage, it could send them far enough so they cant recover. either way, you should do it.