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*NEW* Falco Match-Up Thread ~ Week #13: Olimar

Wulfy07

Wulfy07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
115
Nair is a fair point. Also, try and go even in the air with Lucario. Going from bellow or up top can be fairly bad if his aura is at high priority due to percents. If he is at high percents, still go even, and just laser. If you can force him to approach and get him moving, the match up is still kind of tough, but he won't be the one calmly thinking about response. I'm fairly sure we can outcamp Lucario and act pretty gay. Most of his approaches shouldn't **** Falco if he spaces well. In fact, I can't really think of a scenario where Lucario should **** Falco except off the map. (Not say our recovery sucks, but that Lucario can punish any lag we allow ourselves really well.)

Throw off Lucario and don't jump after him. Forget about gimps (except edge grab of course) and use chain grab to gatling (I'm not a 100% this works) at very low percents. beyond that, I think a bdacus out of down throw should work. And you really need to read dodges and rolls. Lucario has amazing both.

I dunno what I said before, but after thinking about it more, I'd say 55-45 Falco...

Both should have a hard time killing but rack up damage pretty easily. DO NOT GET BLOOD THIRSTY!!!
 
phi1ny3

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Aura is transcendent...

though his appendages aren't.

I think it's more of a mentality, since the conditions of the given scenario become different when a character's aerials suddenly become stronger and thus more dangerous to trade with.

Falco still has a good chance of punishment when below at certain points, but it's less of a bad position and more of a guessing game that rewards either character.

Bad Lucarios have dair patterns, which is what gets punished all the time.

Good ones know the mixups.

Falco will really want to just keep safe and play with all his "reset" options, Falco has a lot of powerful moves that push the attacker back into a "laser safe" zone or put him in a safer place, and this is especially true against Lucario.
 
ksizl4life

ksizl4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,222
Location
NJ/NY
i wouldnt doubt larry <3

this matchup is bad for lucario ONLY when the falco KNOWS the mu.
 
ksizl4life

ksizl4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,222
Location
NJ/NY
if you dont know what to do vs a lucario like me, junebug, stauffy, zucco, trela and lee martin

you're ****ed lol
 
Max Ketchum

Max Ketchum

Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
New Jersey
Lucario is certainly chaingrabbable, though. I don't know why some Falcos and Lucarios think otherwise.
 
MetalMusicMan

MetalMusicMan

Sleepwalk our lives away.
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,643
Location
St. Charles, Missouri
-Doom- said:
Nope, definitely more than two.
Click to expand...
With the Lucario DI'ing properly? I have never seen such a thing. It's been listed as 2 grabs on Lucario for as long as I can remember.

Please explain rather than just saying it is possible with no information--are you talking about the walking or the running chain grab?
 
Max Ketchum

Max Ketchum

Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
New Jersey
Yes, certainly with the Lucario DIing properly. I don't see why I need to explain, it's very simple. You hit Z, hit down, hit forward, then hit Z again more than two times when your opponent selects the character Lucario in the game Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the Nintendo Wii.
 
MetalMusicMan

MetalMusicMan

Sleepwalk our lives away.
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,643
Location
St. Charles, Missouri
-Doom- said:
Yes, certainly with the Lucario DIing properly. I don't see why I need to explain, it's very simple. You hit Z, hit down, hit forward, then hit Z again more than two times when your opponent selects the character Lucario in the game Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the Nintendo Wii.
Click to expand...
Clearly you are a cooler and more knowledgeable person than I am.
 
ArashiMUNCH

ArashiMUNCH

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1
Location
Colorado
DEHF said:
MMM Falco can do 3 walking chain grabs from 0%
Click to expand...
Oh wow really? I always thought it was only two. Whenever I play Lucario mains, they fAir out of it after the second one. Maybe I'm not buffering it right... =/ I've always had a hard time with Lucarios
 
SN Viper

SN Viper

Formerly 9th in FL PR
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,760
Location
Lake Alfred Florida
i play a hard camping game shl and shdl till he makes an error that i can capitalize on. It is very difficult to chain grab him as well as risky if a falco trys to and misses by a frame he eats an Up b. falcos can also bait the up b and then punish but this will not work every time. In the air marth wins simple fair is beast on marth a well placed bair can beat marth if you come from an angle that is not covered by marths fair. marth takes away alot of our options up close as his f tilt out ranges ours and his d tilt spaces us very well. Try not to be above marth our dair is great but i dont think it is worth challenging the up tilt. over all i fell that this match comes down to how makes fewer mistakes and wins the mind games. This match is all about mind games.

this is my experience in the marth mu and that was my opinion on it lets discuss

mu ratio 55 Marth - 45 Falco
 
phi1ny3

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
All I know is that even though it's not guaranteed anymore, it's still super fun to do fthrow x2 -> tipper dair as marth against falco. DI the spike and you should be fine.

Avoid landing near marth, sideB is nearly guaranteed to outspace a landing option and hit any kind of dodge. SideB1 is also imo really useful for marth against Falco in this MU, since it's allllmost safeish plus can be mixed into a grab for a frame trap possibility, or can just be continued if falco spotdodges.

Outzone w/ lasers, mixup your recovering very often, marth has some of the silliest punishments to guessing phantasm patterns correctly.

I don't know if this works anymore (aka whether DI can mess this up) but marth can do like a fthrow x2 -> dthrow x2-3 -> tipper fsmash for 30-40% when Falco's at 0%. the dthrow timing is usually really hard (hence why you saw Zex mess it up a little on that one match), so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work/doesn't look like it'd work. Most of the time if you're getting grabbed though it means you are trying to hit his shield with aerials, which is a bad idea lol.

Falco in this MU tends to be poking lots of holes in marth's "underbelly". The word that comes to mind with Falco is "intercept" imo. Marth obv is going to be doing a lot of fairing, lasers often help sort through to make him a little more limited (probably one of his best patterns is SHFF fair spaced), but at the same time laser makes marth landing often really diffiult w/o eating some extra damage w/ it (like a dash attack afterwards). Bair's pretty useful, I like nair for when he's above. Don't challenge nair obv, just laser it unless he's being smart and spacing it right, then in that case maybe change your spacing more.

avoid the edge obv



Avoid BF and Brinstar, go FD, Japes

That's all I really know from what I've seen. Pretty basic breakdown imo.

55:45 Marth's favor, pretty fun MU actually
 
DEHF

DEHF

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
reseda CA
NNID
larrlurr
You can SDI it if they don't space perfectly, I've never seen anyone SDI the perfectly spaced one.
 
Bloodcross

Bloodcross

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
2,430
Location
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Throughout the beginning of a match vs Marth, simply play center-stage and you won't get zero death'd. Either that or platform camp. One Fair from Marth (13%) is all that's needed to get out of CG Spike percent really.

  • Falco can UpSmash Marth after the 3rd hit of DB.
  • Falco can really keep Marth away from the stage with good prediction. Marths tend to, either, ledgehop Nair, Fair, or Shieldbreaker (Neutral B). I usually just shieldgrab/BPG since Marth can't really space Nair/Fair perfectly when hopping from the ledge.
  • Dash attack is a really good OOS punish against Fair when spaced, can lead to Gattling combo afterwards. Dair, Grab, and Ftilt are generally always useful.
  • Avoid Delfino imo. I personally want all of the neutrals I can get, so I don't avoid BF against Marth. Just personal preference really. Also, I doubt Marth would take Falco to Brinstar... but again that's just me as I think Marth sucks on Brinstar. He's not bad on RC, so that's another option to ban.
 
swordsaint

swordsaint

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
4,379
Location
Western Sydney
Brinstar is **** for Marth.

I get CP'd there often. Small stage = good stage control and all the breakable pieces means extended hitboxes all day. :(
 
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