I also think that Mario should be less focused on endless combos and cheesy kills and more on fluid movement and versatile specials. Maybe he should lose FLUDD and gain his somersault + jumping slide in its place? I like FLUDD, though. And I don't agree on him needing more references. He's heavily based on Mario 64, which is the game where he does the most direct combat. His major outings (Bros., World, 64 and Sunshine) are represented; Galaxy is missing but it has a whole character in Rosalina, he only really needs a move using Cappy. The round spin Cappy does around Mario could honestly also work just a normal move. Would be nice.
I feel like finally giving him his roll and making his down B usable in the air did a lot to really round up his kit. DK is pretty much perfect in Ultimate. He's very explosive but also very exploitable, he has a unique playstyle with obvious strenght and weaknesses. What else does a character need? I wouldn't necessarily mind giving him a barrel-based special (Headbutt feels pretty expendable, and it's weird that it actually has more range than Giant Punch somehow), but I don't want it to detract from the feeling that you're playing as a big angry ape. Give him his voice though!
I disagree on Link. I think that keeping a character with as long a history as his slavishly up to date with the newest game is not necessarily a good idea (it also goes for Mario and Samus). Focusing on his essential traits is the best way to go, and I think that Ultimate Link accomplishes it fine. That said, changing up his specials a little to make him more of a "big brain" character is an interesting idea. Wouldn't mind it. I think that Smash 6 should absolutely still have Breath of the Wild Link though. It's one of the most beloved games of all time.
Samus is weird, because even in her games she basically has two playstyles. The slow, tanky Samus from Super and Prime, and the agile, sleek Samus from Fusion and Dread. I'm not sure Smash can make both portrayals coexist in the same moveset. Making her do more melee attacks for her normal moves could work, but as long as Samus 1) keeps Charge Shot, and 2) remains the archetypal zoner, she's never going to move all that fast. So here's what I'd do. Make her faster and more physical (her u-smash for example could become the counter from Dread, and down tilt would be the slide also from Dread), remove Charge Shot and instead make her able to use Energy/Wave/Ice/Plasma Beams depending on how long she presses B (Energy Beam would only be slightly stronger than a Megaman pellet, while Plasma would be very strong but you won't be able to store it anymore) and...
...keep the Arm Cannon focused normal attacks to Dark Samus. She did attack with scattershots a lot in both Echoes and Corruption, so moves like u-smash and f-air really fit her. Charge Shot also really feels like a "boss character" move, so I'd also give it to Dark Samus. Screw Attack, Missile and Bomb I'd keep to Samus, and I'd give Dark Samus phazon-based moves from her actual fights in their place. Maybe it's too much tinkering with such an iconic Smash moveset, though, but you'd get to freshen up Samus a bit while also making Dark Samus more unique and faithful.
Yoshi works pretty well. There's... not many other ways you can make Yoshi. I'd tone down his air speed just a little though, and in exchange make Egg Roll a real move. But yeah Yoshi's well designed, there's not much to say about him.
I'm not sure about making Kirby full of references. He's like Mario in that he actually has a lot of references already, it's just that they're a little more hidden than usual. And also, his current normal moves are very functional. I agree that he needs a bit of rethinking, but not to such an extreme degree. Really, he only needs a little more air speed and a real side special. Hammer wouldn't be very missed I think. Stone and Final Cutter are also kinda bad but they're iconic, I wouldn't change them. And give him back his Brawl Final Smash, it was so much fun...
Works perfectly as the archetypal rushdown character and doesn't really have a ton of material to pull from, there's not much to say about him.
I actually don't like Pikachu in Ultimate at all, he feels awful to play as and awful to play against. I liked him better in older Smash games though, it's mostly for balancing and game feel reasons. I disagree on his moveset not being iconic, Thunder and Thunderjolt are classic and still very unique Smash moves.
Yeah Luigi is a mess. To be fair, I think that Luigi being kinda like Mario but less versatile and better at combos is a decent direction for him. He has more trouble at getting in compared to his brother, but once he does he messes you up. But it's just too extreme... Being a touch of death character doesn't fit Luigi at all, and honestly him having 0 air speed is also getting old. I feel like both brothers could use getting "all-rounder"-ed a little. Then, yeah, you can have Mario excel in movement and Luigi in combos and maybe even in early KOs still, but in a less extreme and more fun way.
Yo-yo edgeguards are dumb but aside from those, I wouldn't change a thing about Ness. He's tons of fun, he's still super unique, the Earthbound visual effects introduced in Ultimate rounded up his presentation in an excellent way. He's pretty much perfect in my book.
Like Ness, he's still perfect. His flashy and risky playstyle perfectly captures the feel of F-Zero and he has one of the most iconic Smash movesets ever. There's not much to say.
Strongly disagree on his take on Puff. Despite being so simple, her moveset is still very unique and I feel like most Smash fans really like Jigglypuff? Sleep, Rest and the walls of death never get old. There's no need to change such a well-executed playstyle just because she got a Fairy type at one point. Which brings me to...
...there's no need to change such a well-executed playstyle just because she got a game where she plays dress-up at one point. At her core, Peach is a princess, not a cosplayer. She's another character that I feel doesn't really need any change. Unique, easy to grasp, but actually very complex with a high skill ceiling. It's just good stuff. That said, there is one good reason to change one of her moves... I'm not going to go into details but it's about her neutral B.
No strong opinion on Daisy. She's basically Peach but headstrong in all her appearances and she doesn't really have any exclusive abilities, and that's carried over in Smash. That said, I'm not opposed to her being made a little more different of course. I just think it's cute that she's in at all.
There's nothing wrong with Bowser but I don't really like the way he plays. Never liked it, actually. I don't know, he feels like he's missing some oomph, even though he actually has plenty of oomph? But Ganondorf, Dedede, Ridley and K. Rool are all so much more fun than him. Don't know how I'd change him, though. It's probably just personal taste. He needs his actual voice though, even more than DK, that dim screech he has now is kinda sad.
100% agree here, if there's one character who's justified in having 0 to deaths, it's the Ice Climbers. All their stuff has different routes and they're all finger breaking, plus they have a really bad neutral so it's hard for them to even get in, and you can completely lock them out of the 0 to deaths by KOing Nana... All in all, it's fair. Plus they're very unique, I think that they're really great in Ultimate. Also, casual Smash is rarely talked about but they're still one of the most fun characters in that context. Being able to use two items at the same time always makes you feel like a cheater.
Another character that pretty much achieved perfect form in Ultimate for what they set out to do, imo. Why would you want to ruin that by giving her... -checks notes- ...a harp? What would that even do?
Making Phantom slightly less overcentralizing and giving her better normals seems like the way to go. Zelda is always going to be a defensive character, though. That said, I think that making her a little more "big brain" in the style of Pac-man and the likes would be a good call. She's a little one-note as of now. You could use her down B to summon not just different stages of the Phantom, bu actually unique objects (like in EoW) that would behave in more unique ways. This is one of the times where a new release gives an opportunity to actually inject more life to an existing moveset, imo.
Another character at the top of his game in Ultimate. Yeah he's low tier, but he works really well as Mario's Ganondorf now, and his unique moves like d-air and b-throw feel great to use. Aside from giving him a slightly better recovery, I'm not sure what I'd do with him. The doc is in a good place.
Pichu is pretty unique in Ultimate. He's very hard to hit but he has very poor range, he has endless combos and his finishers hit like a truck but he's the lightest character in the game and his attacks even damage himself. It's a very unique combination of traits that definitely justifies his spot in the roster, even though he has the same attacks as Pikachu. It's sad that so many people want him cut, he's very fun and well designed in Ultimate.
No strong opinion on Falco. I actually think he's kinda lame this time. it's good for him to be combo-focused, but it's always the same couple of ones... Meh. He actually represents Star Fox better than Fox, though. He's much more aerial-focused, his lasers feel more powerful, he barrel rolls a lot with his own body. Pluls he's pretty much a unique character now and he's still decently popular. He's fine. I'm one of those who think he was at his best in Melee.
I really don't know about Marth. He's still good old Marth to me. He's fast, he's reliable, and his tippers are satisfying. I only play him very casually though, and yeah Lucina and the abundance of swordsmen in general have put Marth into a bit of an identity crisis, but not as much as Ike. If they can fix the hitboxes I think he can work as the dedicated tipper characterwell enough I think.
The problem with Lucina is that she overshadows Marth competitively, but I'm not even sure if that's actually problem? Nowadays the consensus is that Roy also overshadows Chrom. Even though they're echoes, they work differently from their counterparts, and different characters are going to have different placements. But anyways, you could make Lucina's attacks a little weaker, she has such a strong presence that it wouldn't really hinder her all that much, Next to a more consistent Marth it would fix their dynamic I think.
Hard disagree here. Young Link is fantastically designed in Ultimate. He's fast, he has a lot of combos, he has good projectiles, he can play some trapping game thanks to his bombs. He's very dynamic. And in spite of all that, he's also pretty fair. Plus he's very distinct from regular Link now. It's a shame that everyone wants such a fun character gone. Majora's Mask is one of my GOATs but I don't think that Young Link more specifically representing this little game called Ocarina of Time (you might have heard of it) is necessarily a problem. Next time he really should put on the Fierce Deity Mask for his final smash, though. And Majora should get its dues with playable Skull Kid.
What a can of worms this is. For the next game I just want Ganondorf to keep his OoT design, it's by far his best. What I'd do is keep him more or less like he is, change his down B for a projectile and make his up B cover more distance via floating. Give it a permanent hitbox so that on the ground you can use it a little he'd use Falcon Kick in Ultimate. His other stuff is too fun and too ingrained into Smash's identity to change, sorry.
Another character I have no strong opinion on. Being a glass cannon is fitting enough for him and his animations are awesome, but overall he's just... kinda just there?
Roy works very well indeed. Not much to say.
I think that Chrom is really fun and a very good way to do an echo.
Agree. G&W is another one of those characters who really found their identity in Ultimate. Some of his stuff is overtuned but it's hardly a difficult fix for a sequel. Just two minor nitpicks on my part. His 2d monochrome bomb generating a 3d multicolor explosion always manages to bother me, and I get why they removed the feather but now in his f-smash he just looks like he's exposing his peepee...
Meta Knight on the other hand somewhat gets lost in modern Smash's abundance of characters imo. I really don't know what I'd change about him, though. A slightly longer sword and less extreme combos seems like a fair compromise. At this point I'm noticing that MockRock often advocates for making a given character's identity less extreme, which is fair enough in most cases but it could tend to homogenize the roster too much if you apply this principle too often. But I do think that Meta Knight needs some sauce.
Pit is pretty great as a beginner-friendly character. Fix his hitboxes and he's good to go.
He works well enough the way he is now. I don't think he should be decloned (he's just way too small of a character in the grand scheme of things, and him having the exact same silhouette as Pit but playing differently would be confusing), but the differences he has now are fine.
Agree here. I have no idea what's going on with this character. She wants to play hit and run but she can also kill you in three hits, and her mobility is just absurd, probably the best in the game. I hate playing against her and I have no idea what I'm doing when I'm playing as her. There's few characters in Smash that I just really don't like at all, but Zero Suit Samus is one.
Agree again, make Waft less easy to combo into and Wario is a perfectly designed character. I love Wario Land but he has the 2-3 references from that series that really matter and he has a really strong identity in Smash, both visually and in terms of playstyle. Yeah Wario is pretty great.
I don't fully agree with his take. I think that Snake is a very creative and dynamic character in Smash. Of course characters in this game only have so many moves, there's limits to how many different things you can do. But people play Snake in a ton of different ways and he gives ample space to creativity and player expression. He's also wonderfully chaotic in free for alls. Aside from toning some of his stuff down a little (u-tilt is busted, grenades shouldn't get him out of combos for free) I don't think that there's much to change about Snake. He's well designed and worth keeping around.
Hard agree here. Ike is the biggest victim of the swordfighter inflation. He hits hard, but other characters do exactly that and also do more (thinking about Cloud and Pyra/Mythra in particular), so Ike being left being so slow, without projectiles, and cursed into spamming nair for all eternity feels really bad at this point. On the other hand, there's merit in having simple to understand characters, he's still the quintessentiial burly swordsmen with no frills. But he just feels so limited and one-note, he really could use an overhaul.
Brilliant character, there's not much I'd change.
Disagree. I think that Diddy is very fun to play as, and the banana is the core of his playstyle. It's something that's pretty unique to him. The banana's positioning influences the entire neutral game of the match and creates a lot of tension since he gets so much off of it but you can also use it against him. It also creates interesting dynamics in conjuction with Monkey Flip. And in spite of all that, the banana doesn't make Diddy feel too one-note because the rest of his kit is also pretty well rounded. But remove the banana and he's just another fast combo-oriented character. Not sure why you'd want more focus on his rocket barrels of all things. They're his recovery. What else should they be used for? It's literally what they do.
Fingerbreaker Lucas is not my jam, sadly. I was in love with weirdo zoner Smash 4 Lucas. Even liked PK Freeze more back then. Carrying a frozen opponent into the upper blast zone with PK Thunder 2 always made me feel like a king. If it was up to me, Smash 6's Lucas would lean back into that identity a little AND still keep his fingerbreaker stuff. It's not like he's a busted character or anything. But yeah he'll always be one of my favorite Smash characters regardless.
I remember that, a lot of time ago in the Brawl days, before he got announced, alongside "Ridley is too big to work in Smash" you'd sometimes see somebody argue that "Sonic is too fast to work in Smash". Turns out one of those two takes was right, and it's not the Ridley one. But what else can you do with Sonic? He needs to be the fastest character in the game, and he needs to have a chargeable spin dash. It's Sonic. Making him not able to cancel his special moves could be a way to fix him, but maybe that would make him even more monotone? It's not a very elegant solution but he's probably one of those characters who just need copious amounts of nerfs of all kinds. That fixed Bayonetta. Like, he has actual design problems but his moves are also just really busted. Why does his f-smash have more range than Byleth's?
He's one of those characters who's unique and fun to play but who's also never going to be particularly good in competitive Smash. I don't think that his air speed necessarily needs to be this bad, though. Same for his attacks, they don't all need to be as slow as they are. You probably could make him a little better just by tweaking some parameters.
In my opinion Olimar was really fun in Brawl, but going from 6 to 3 pikmin and losing his old up B destroyed him. I don't really agree with his animations being particularly confusing. You need to watch the pikmin, and they move differently for each of his moves. Then again, fighiting against him is confusing actually, since having pikmin on you messes up the rhythm of most of your moves... I really don't know about Olimar. Reverting him back to 6 pikmin would probably make him busted, but he just feels like "we have Olimar at home" nowadays, and I don't know how you could rework him more heavily since he's pretty faithful to what you do in Pikmin games. He's one of those characters who could use some kind of rework but it's hard to figure out how to actually go about it.
Lucario is a mess. His attacks are very bland and kinda "been there, done that", he's weirdly floaty, and the only thing that really distinguishes him, his Aura, is widely hated and is honestly a pretty poor comeback mechanic. I'd say that he's one of those few characters I really don't like at all alongside Zero Suit Samus, but actually it is pretty fun when you have high damage and anything can kill you but also every single one of your moves is a nuclear explosion. I feel like this concept can be savaged, but he'd need to be less floaty and less campy, so it would be a pretty major rework.
He never really left as strong an impression on me as the Ice Climbers, Game & Watch or Duck Hunt, but ROB is fine. Nerf some of his most ridicolous stuff and he's good to go.
I agree that he should have more stuff from Wind Waker in order to distinguish him more from the other two Links. Having three Links is fine but Toon Link in particular feels a little like wasted potential, and he also feels somewhat redundant in Ultimate.
I don't know about Wolf being this pinnacle of game design. He's a little too good at a little too many things. Great air speed, arguably best projectile in the game, reflector, long combos, insane frame data, very powerful smash attacks that also have little to no endlag, decent recovery... Sakurai presented him as a "high risk, high reward" character and that's just not what he is at all. Give him some nerfs and he's good to go, but I'd like it more for his kit to be reworked and actually lean into the "risk" part of the equation. Unpopular opinion, but he's very frustrating to play against and kinda boring to play as since he's just so plain. Giving him some spice wouldn't hurt.
Villager is very unique and fun, I don't think there's much else you could do with him.
Another perfectly executed character in my book. I love to play as Megaman. You often see people wanting to make him less projectile-based, but that's what makes him unique! His attacks are indeed clunky but it all makes sense once you get the hang of him.
Yeah the Wii Fit Trainer is kind of a mess. I feel like you can rebalance her a little to make her more interesting, but the whole idea behind the character is somewhat flawed in my opinion. She has no gameplay identity beyond the joke that every attack is a fitness exercise. I like to play as her in casual Smash, but in 1vs1s where moveset design actually becomes important having her in the match on either side is just painful.
I feel like positioning Luma where you want him to be is too difficult and unreliable. Aside from that Rosalina is okay I guess.
He's a lot like Olimar, the Wii Fit Trainer or Lucario. They don't fully work but it's hard to fix them without detracting from their identity. If there's one character in the roster who could use being made a little less extreme though, that's Little Mac.
He's okay, not much to say.
Mii Fighters are very good concept for the character, and very well executed. Swordfighter being more of a zoner is indeed weird, and the character also feels really weak so I think there's room to tweak that version a little.
Palutena is fine. She's easy to pick up, she feels strong, but she's not one of those characters who play the game for you. The endless n-air loops are silly but aside from that I think that she's in a pretty good spot.
I'll never be able to play him well, but Pac-man is fantastic. It's crazy how creative he can be, watching or even playing against a good Pac-man is always super fun. Toning down his close range fighting a little wouldn't break the character, and you could probably give him some cooldown before he can use the hydrant again. But it's small tweaks, Pac-man is in a good place.
I... really don't like Robin at all. No strong opinions on what they should do with him short of a complete rework.
Another messy character. In my opinion, the fundamental problem with Shulk is that he shouldn't have been the stat manipulation character. 1) It's been a long time since I've played Xenoblade 1, but I don't remember him actually playing like that?, and 2) since he fights with the Monado, his attacks are always going to be slow and long-ranged. This kind of mechanic would have worked better on a more standard character in my opinion. No matter what you do, Shulk always feels unwieldy. And in spite of all that, he's also pretty plain as a swordfighter. He has the counter, the vertical up B, and even his side special, while iconic to the character, is nothing to write home about. This is his identity now, but I wish they took a different direciton with him.
Agree. There's nothing particularly wrong with Bowser Jr. but he's also kinda just there.
Agree. Duck Hunt is a very well made character. I think that you could make the hitboxes on a couple of their normals a little less specific and that wouldn't make them broken, but the character's general design is really strong.
The best designed fighting game character in Smash, in my opinion. Ryu just works well. I think it's fair to have him be mostly based on Street Fighter II, it's his most iconic outing, just like Mario is mostly based on Mario 64. Tweak a couple of normals maybe, but I don't think you should mess with the way he plays.
Ken is a little silly though. He's a clunky touch of death character, he was Kazuya before Kazuya showed up. I think that making him a little less extreme wouldn't be a bad idea.
I can see where he is coming from, but I disagree with his take on Cloud, especially on Cross Slash not feeling like a special move? What? It's true that he feels less "the Limit Break character" and more of an all-rounder now, but that's actually a good thing in my opinion. Really the only problem with Cloud is that he's too fun and he eclipses most other swordfighters. I can see them changing a couple of his normals to reflect FF7R, but his overall design works very well, there's no need to fix what isn't broken.
Not sure about the Corrin take. Yeah he uses his aerials a lot, but it's werid to single him out for that when almost every single other sword character does. B-air and D-air are very unique at least, and his smash attacks aren't very sword-like. You're left with a small bunch of moves that feel a little too generic but otherwise I don't really see it. Corrin is the poster boy for "promotional anime swordsman that shouldn't be here", and I agree with this opinion, but as a fighter he's pretty solid in my opinion.
Another character I don't like anything about, sorry. I think that her whole premise is inherently unfitting for a game like Smash. Ultimate made her less of a problem but she still isn't any fun.
Eh they're fine? I agree that they probably could have pushed the inking the stage concept a little further. Still, they're an agile character with resource management and some slight stage control, it's not like they don't have their niche. Don't really like playing as them, personally, but that's besides the point.
Ridley is a little underpowered but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with his design. Some buffs and maybe a couple of new normal attacks would already do wonders for him.
Agree that Simon is very good for what they wanted him to be. Years after his inclusion, with the character having been mostly figured out, I agree it's fair to say that giving him a slightly better recovery wouldn't really make him broken. Personally I find him very fun to play as.
Again, one of those characters who's fine as an echo in my opinion, but I wouldn't be opposed to him becoming slightly more unique.
What's there to say about K. Rool? His design is fantastic. He's also a really bad character. He has a lot in common with Dedede, actually. I can't see him ever evolving past his current role as a n00b stomper as long as he keeps his current design. But not every character can be top tier, and K. Rool is incredibly fun and popular the way he is. Some buffs wouldn't hurt, but as far as being a worthy inclusion in the game goes, I'd say that he is in a very good place.
I like Isabelle a lot, she's even more fun than Villager and she's actually one of my most played newcomers. I suppose you could declone her a little more but I don't think that's necessary.
Not much to add, Incineroar is awesome. Really great fighter design. Cutting him would be a tragedy.
I think the biggest problem with Plant is that, as its opponent, you rarely have any reason to dance to its tune, so to say. Giving it some way to force its opponent to approach would probably improve its design quite a bit. Otherwise it's another very well executed inclusion, not much to add.
Hard disagree on Joker. Never played a Persona game and don't plan to, but having him use multiple Personas would radically change the way he plays, he'd basically become an entirely different character, and he is very popular the way he is now. Just Arsene is fine, and it's already unique enough. I think that making him able to fill his summon bar only via countering attacks with his down B would be a pretty interesting change, though. It would become less of a comeback mechanic and more of a reward for playing well, like Incineroar's Revenge.
Not much to add about Hero. He's very well designed, with smash attacks randomly critting and his spells not having symbols being his only real issues. The fact that this character is not broken beyond repair, or not even particularly above average actually, is a small miracle.
Banjo is cool now?? Toriguri really did put in the work. But yeah, Banjo was always cool. Grenades, Breegull Blaster, Wonderwing and a bunch of odd normals make for a very versatile and open to creativity kit. You discover new tricks even after hundreds of hours. I think Banjo is the most fun I've ever had with a Smash character. That's not to say I necessarily disagree with MockRock's take here, I'm not opposed to the next game toning down the zoning a little and making him more of a brawler. More than that though, they should figure out a way to make his kit a little more welcoming to a new player. Figuring out how to play Banjo is
hard, and I'm not sure that was intentional.
Terry is in a pretty good place, personally I'd tone down his damage output a little, but other than that he's pretty much perfect.
Byleth is also pretty much what the developers wanted him to be, not much to add.
"Burn it to the ground" seems a bit harsh. She's not nearly as problematic as Sonic, or even as Kazuya. I really can't see what's so wrong with Min Min's moveset aside from it being annoying to deal with.
Steve needs some toning down. Aside from that he's pretty great and one my favorite new inclusions. I don't have much to say about him.
Sephiroth is also pretty great? He nails the feel of playing as (or against) a final boss, but he's a pretty honest character all things considered. Probably the only honest character in FP2. His one-winged mode is busted, I think it's only fair that his opponent can get to chance to KO him before he can access it. He executes the glass cannon boss character concept so much better than Mewtwo in my opinion.
I agree that they're grossly overtuned and not particularly interesting. Still, I'd say they are a conceptually fairly decent attempt at a transforming/stance change character. Give these two a fair amount of nerfs and they're pretty much good to go.
Yeah, the biggest problem with Kazuya, design-wise, it's that he has like 30 attacks but EWGF is the best choice 99% of the times. Then he hits you once and you're dead. Him having super armor or straight-up invincibility on so many of his moves is also a problem. The idea behind him is solid enough, but I think that his kit should undergo a heavy rebalance/rework process.
And, finally, Sora. Another unpopular opinion but I agree that he's kinda lame. He just slows the game down so much. Him being simple is fitting, and the rotating spells are a neat idea, but Sonic Blade is a very lame move and everything is just so slow and the aerial combos aren't really particularly interesting. To me it feels like he's a couple of major changes away from really making the most out of what he brings. Which changes exactly, I'm not sure.