Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Prankster 16]

Yeah but it wouldn't be the color that some people would want to see.

Remember people actually complained about Ultimate's ARMS character being Min Min rather than Twintelle.

That's part of the reason that if we get any new Zelda character in the next game, especially if it is a Switch era character, I would want it to be Urbosa.

 

[Perkilator]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

 

[Shinuto]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

PoppiQTπ cannot work as an echo for the Aegis what crack are they smoking?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

MOM DAD DONKEY KONG COUNTRY

THAT'S RIGHT! DONKEY KONG COUNTRY FOR REAL LIFE

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read it, but mine went more like:

"MOM! DAD! NINTENDO DIRECT ANNOUNCED!"
"THAT'S RIGHT! A 10-MINUTE DIRECT ABOUT THE DK SECTION IN SUPER NINTENDO WORLD!"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

That entire article is a bigger stretch than Min Min's ARMS

Making a hodgepodge of different people's moves is not what an Echo Fighter is lmao

Otherwise, we might start calling Ganondorf a Captain Falcon Echo and he's already getting **** on enough by being a derivative without us slapping the echo title on him.

 

[Laniv]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

Oh... Dark Link. That's, um... that's quite interesting.

Maybe some characters really can't have Echoes

 

[The Prankster 16]

What are everybody's thougts on DLC costumes for non-Mii characters?
Personally i'm not all for it, mostly because I don't wanna spend more money than I have to

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

PoppiQTπ cannot work as an echo for the Aegis what crack are they smoking?

Especially considering the very obvious alternative they could be using...Well, Pneuma still doesn't quite work, but at least she makes more sense than PoppiQTπ.

Oh... Dark Link. That's, um... that's quite interesting.

Maybe some characters really can't have Echoes

The duality of Echoe Fighter concepts:

Characters that nobody cares about, and characters that don't work at all. Exceptions are very few.

 

[Perkilator]

What are everybody's thougts on DLC costumes for non-Mii characters?
Personally i'm not all for it, mostly because I don't wanna spend more money than I have to

I personally think that extra costumes for non-Mii Fighters should be in the base game, or at the very least come bundled with a Challenger Pack.

 

[Laniv]

What are everybody's thougts on DLC costumes for non-Mii characters?
Personally i'm not all for it, mostly because I don't wanna spend more money than I have to

They'd make bank, is what I think.

Spoiler: especially these two

Hint hint

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

This Poppi QTpi is not an Echo so much as a semi-clone with a hodgepodge of moves from all over the place and saying "Oh Poppiswap is just like Pyra and Mythra changing forms", disregarding the fact that Poppi QTpi starts out as Ice element and that Poppi Alpha is Earth element, so it's basically using original QT's Fire element and then slapping Light element on it to force the similarity out of her.

I also can't stand the idea of Metal Mario as an Echo. Do we really need a third Mario that's exactly the same, especially when the Metal Box is an item and their work-around is "just make him really polygonal like he's from the N64 but with the personality of Mario Kart Metal Mario"?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

PoppiQTπ cannot work as an echo for the Aegis what crack are they smoking?

Yea, they should've done with Pneuma instead. Also, I don't think every fighter should have every echo. Only certain ones.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

Some of these ideas make Ken look like the "alt costume with extra steps" flavor of Echo.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Yea, they should've done with Pneuma instead. Also, I don't think every fighter should have every echo. Only certain ones.

That makes me remember those "every character gets an echo" videos from early ultimate speculation. I remember people unironically saying Paper Mario could be a Game & Watch echo.

 

[jamesster445]

After the whole "Terry is just Ken with a hat" debacle, I think it's pretty funny that we're still trying to make arguments that characters would be boring additions because of superficial similarities

I think what's funny is that apparently a lot of Terry was built from Ken's assets. So in a roundabout way, Terry really was just "Ken with a hat"

 

[Ivander]

What are everybody's thougts on DLC costumes for non-Mii characters?
Personally i'm not all for it, mostly because I don't wanna spend more money than I have to

We're either very lucky or very unlucky that they haven't done non-Mii DLC costumes. Because most of the characters have so much alternate costume potential. And we would probably be sucked dry if they went the full mile.

 

[Arcanir]

Source Gaming just released an article called “Echo Fighter Chamber“, and the Echo choices are…interesting, to say the least.

Cases like PoppiQTπ remind me of how much Echo Fighter discussion can feel like a square peg, round hole situation. Getting characters in that wouldn't have a chance otherwise is a way to utilize the concept, but if you're trying to force a character to become an Echo by making them a Frankenstein of moves and animations then they shouldn't be an Echo Fighter. This is a good example of that as you're not making a simple addition that just requires some touch-up to feel like the character, you're taking from multiple other characters to get some semblance of feel of the character, and at that point you might as well just go in with the idea of making her own character than making a hodgepodge that likely will still feel lacking in what she is.

 

[Diddy Kong]

While am for Echo Fighters, and the more the merrier, it shouldn't be forced as badly as this. Poppi wouldn't make a good Pyra / Mythra Echo and I can think of different Links than Dark Link that would make a good Echo to Link. For example, the Hero of Time.

It becomes weird if people try to force characters into Echo status. Like Dixie or the Black Knight, these are common examples. But they get thrown around all the time in discussion, mostly by people who haven't played the source games.

A good Echo Fighter is a lot of fun to have. But it has to fit first. If too much has to be changed around, chances are huge it isn't the best of ideas for this character to be a Echo.

 

[Idon]

Echo fighters have done nothing but ill for the community character discussion.
You could put down any character and if they share even remotely some similarities at a face level you'll have the most insane people say "Hmm I dunno, could be an echo" like come the hell on, Smash is supposed to be about celebrating these characters being pulled from their games in a fun and faithful way, why do smash fans constantly work against what they want.

We went from Falcondorf being a disgraceful representation of the King of Evil to "HERE'S AN ECHO FOR EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME"

 

[DarthEnderX]

Chun Li is iconic but I'd rather get characters from fighting game series that don't already have a character in Smash. Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, Killer Instinct, I don't know...

I'm always going to prefer a completely new franchise over more one we already have.

But if the character is iconic enough, I'm not going to complain about it. I didn't complain about Sephiroth, and I wouldn't complain about Chun Li either.

Making a hodgepodge of different people's moves is not what an Echo Fighter is lmao

I mean...it's a little bit what Chrom is.

Oh... Dark Link. That's, um... that's quite interesting.

I mean, it's pretty obvious. 2 of the Echoes we have now are already Dark clones.

What are everybody's thougts on DLC costumes for non-Mii characters?

I wouldn't pay for them(just like I don't pay for costumes in SF). But if they wanted to add them, fine.

Echo fighters have done nothing but ill for the community character discussion.

Bull****. A couple people is not "the community".

Smash is supposed to be about celebrating these characters being pulled from their games in a fun and faithful way, why do smash fans constantly work against what they want.

Because if they weren't Echoes, those characters wouldn't be playable at all.

Can't celebrate a character that ain't ****ing there!

We went from Falcondorf being a disgraceful representation of the King of Evil to "HERE'S AN ECHO FOR EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME"

Really? Did "we" do that? Or was that, like, one guy on the internet.

 

[BritishGuy54]

PoppiQTπ cannot work as an echo for the Aegis what crack are they smoking?

At least it beats people suggesting Rex as an Aegis echo. I hate that idea.

If anyone’s going to be an Aegis echo, I’d rather they do a solo Pneuma.

 

[ninjahmos]

I've said this before and I'll say it again:

Obligatory text

 

[Louie G.]

So Chun-Li can bring content from... other SF games then because Smash is weirdly reluctant to touch on it outside of a few spirits with Juri being the only one from this century.

The way people neglect this is very frustrating - there's a clear imbalance of Street Fighter representation that many Smash fans are either ambivalent toward or outright unware of. This is the same community that acknowledges there's a problem that Kirby neglects a significant chunk of its modern history, that recognizes how frustrating it is that Final Fantasy is only being carried by FF7, but kinda just shrugs and looks the other way at the fact that Street Fighter II and its variants are the only SF game treated like it's worth a damn in Smash Bros.

Of course the retort is that Chun-Li wouldn't solve this problem because she's also from Street Fighter II... okay, but she's also from the Street Fighter Alpha series. She's from Third Strike. She's from Street Fighter 6. Obviously her inclusion would be a catalyst to expand on the series toward these areas, there is a wealth of unexplored history from Street Fighter and Chun-Li has been there for all of it. So I don't see why that isn't a valid perspective either. I mean, we're practically guaranteed her Alpha outfit and Sakurai is well aware of SF's competitive history so he ought to know how significant Chun-Li is to Third Strike.

This feels like a very unique problem to Chun-Li sometimes too... I take notice of the way that Chun-Li conversations involve "well we should really focus on another series from Capcom" and you almost never hear the same sentiment directed at Sonic the Hedgehog. A series that could also use fresh new blood in Smash, has its own issues with series representation, but still serves to represent more than one pocket of its storied history.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sakurai is well aware of SF's competitive history so he ought to know how significant Chun-Li is to Third Strike.

There is no way he doesn't when the Ken trailer outright references Evo Moment 37.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So we're discussing our Top 10 female characters?

1. Dixie Kong
2. Chun-Li
3. Terra Branford
4. Impa
5. Krystal
6. Lyn
7. Pauline
8. Lara Croft
9. Ashley
10. Squid Sisters

 

[Kirbeh]

Chun Li would not be a surprising choice in the slightest, so I can kind of understand how some may find her a little less exciting. She is one of Capcom's go to characters for just about any collab or crossover.

That said it's Chun Li. I avoid throwing around the "x deserves to be in" phrase but I genuinely feel like she's one of the characters where you can really say that.

As for echoes, I've always been fond of clone characters as a whole, be it Smash, Street Fighter, etc.

I say the more the merrier but only if the character legitimately works as an echo and they have no other shot at making it in. And even then, I'd much prefer proper semi clones to echoes.

Whenever possible, I'd also like for echoes to slowly get more differences just like the clones that came before them.

As for their effects on the "community" I honestly don't think they did that much in the long run. You did have some people that became more accepting with the rebranding but you still get plenty of people that hate any kind of clone. I also don't think a handful of people trying to think of echoes for everyone for funsies is big deal either.

The people that do actually try to dismiss characters as only suitable as echoes are annoying but I don't think they're as numerous as it might seem.

If you participate in the niche speculation scene you tend to run into the same people, opinions and arguments a lot.

The way people neglect this is very frustrating - there's a clear imbalance of Street Fighter representation that many Smash fans are either ambivalent toward or outright unware of. This is the same community that acknowledges there's a problem that Kirby neglects a significant chunk of its modern history, that recognizes how frustrating it is that Final Fantasy is only being carried by FF7, but kinda just shrugs and looks the other way at the fact that Street Fighter II and its variants are the only SF game treated like it's worth a damn in Smash Bros.

Of course the retort is that Chun-Li wouldn't solve this problem because she's also from Street Fighter II... okay, but she's also from the Street Fighter Alpha series. She's from Third Strike. She's from Street Fighter 6. Obviously her inclusion would be a catalyst to expand on the series toward these areas, there is a wealth of unexplored history from Street Fighter and Chun-Li has been there for all of it. So I don't see why that isn't a valid perspective either. I mean, we're practically guaranteed her Alpha outfit and Sakurai is well aware of SF's competitive history so he ought to know how significant Chun-Li is to Third Strike.

This feels like a very unique problem to Chun-Li sometimes too... I take notice of the way that Chun-Li conversations involve "well we should really focus on another series from Capcom" and you almost never hear the same sentiment directed at Sonic the Hedgehog. A series that could also use fresh new blood in Smash, has its own issues with series representation, but still serves to represent more than one pocket of its storied history.

This so much.

 

[Louie G.]

That said it's Chun Li. I avoid throwing around the "x deserves to be in" phrase but I genuinely feel like she's one of the characters where you can really say that.

I think she's one of the last remaining characters who emphasizes Smash's "crossover appeal" in as straightforward a way as Mario vs Sonic, or Link vs Cloud.

Chun-Li is, as everyone knows, the first lady of fighting games. As it stands we kind of have a lapse of female third party characters, which is really unfortunate. I know people take issue with this kind of identity-oriented discussion, but Chun-Li is a character where "girl power" truly does elevate her - the idea of Chun-Li fighting against Peach and Samus is a big deal, it's the kind of "dream matchup" that Sakurai often alludes to. She's a real icon in this respect.

There are only a handful of other characters where I feel they have that kind of obvious hook. Samus vs Master Chief I guess? Really not a lot.

 

[BuckleyTim]

regardless of what I think of the game, SFV has some awesome music that absolutely should be in Smash in some form.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Samus vs Master Chief I guess? Really not a lot.

Haloid being a thing we can actually do in a video game would be the coolest **** though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As for echoes, I've always been fond of clone characters as a whole, be it Smash, Street Fighter, etc.

I say the more the merrier but only if the character legitimately works as an echo and they have no other shot at making it in. And even then, I'd much prefer proper semi clones to echoes.

Whenever possible, I'd also like for echoes to slowly get more differences just like the clones that came before them.

Sure, but I think the echo ideas in

Echo Fighter Chamber: Metal, Dark, QTπ

Hamada’s pitching Smash movesets for three hopeful Echo Fighters: Metal Mario, Dark Link, and Poppi QTπ!

sourcegaming.info

Are probably a bit too different to even be called echoes. I mean, sure, Chrom has a different Up-B from Roy, but it still does the thing you should expect any Up-B to do, help Chrom recover upwards.

That said, Sakurai's said he's hesitant to make massive gameplay changes to veterans to avoid alienating fans of their playstyle, but at the same time when Daisy/Richter/Dark Samus are supposed to play exactly like Peach/Simon/Samus...maybe he'd be willing to make more changes to them since there'd still be characters who play like those three were supposed to?

 

[Cyberfire]

Donkey Kong expansion to Super Nintendo World looks incredible. Let's hope a certain King shows up somewhere...

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm glad we're finally getting information about the DK section of the park. I hope in the future, we can get more franchises outside of the Marioverse in the parks as well, such as Zelda, Kirby, and Splatoon.

 

[Laniv]

Look, we even get fully-voiced animatronic Cranky Kong!

Cranky Kong and Squawks being the only animatronics in the park is random but I like it

Wonder what Cranky will sound like in English pic.twitter.com/KbWB6vcNwt

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) November 11, 2024

 

[Cyberfire]

I'm glad we're finally getting information about the DK section of the park. I hope in the future, we can get more franchises outside of the Marioverse in the parks as well, such as Zelda, Kirby, and Splatoon.

I'd say Zelda is almost guaranteed at some point in the future.

I know space in theme parks are a finite resource, but I wonder if we could ever also get an 'all-around Nintendo' area so series like Kirby/Pikmin/Metroid that wouldn't ever get entire lands could at least get some attractions?

 

[BuckleyTim]

Look, we even get fully-voiced animatronic Cranky Kong!

Cranky Kong and Squawks being the only animatronics in the park is random but I like it

Wonder what Cranky will sound like in English pic.twitter.com/KbWB6vcNwt

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) November 11, 2024

alright fine i'll take back everything i said about the park expansion

this alone was worth it

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Donkey Kong expansion to Super Nintendo World looks incredible. Let's hope a certain King shows up somewhere...

I guess they could get away with it, with King Kong being public domain and all

 

[Speed Weed]

tbh I would be pretty satisfied if from now until the end of time Smash just added characters from Capcom and SNK fighting games

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

tbh I would be pretty satisfied if from now until the end of time Smash just added characters from Capcom and SNK fighting games

Sakurai directing Capcom vs SNK 3

It will be real. Trust me.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Look, we even get fully-voiced animatronic Cranky Kong!

Cranky Kong and Squawks being the only animatronics in the park is random but I like it

Wonder what Cranky will sound like in English pic.twitter.com/KbWB6vcNwt

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) November 11, 2024

FNAC (Five Nights at Cranky's)

But for real it's cool to see the recent DK push. I like how they're putting characters like Funky and Cranky upfront more, I can't wait to see what the future has in store. I'd love to see more Kongs join Smash's roster, too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

View attachment 396013

FNAC (Five Nights at Cranky's)

"The bite of '87? How about you kids start playing the good games of '87, because everything past then was absolute trash!"